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The Grail War continues, and you're about to face off against Yamata-no-Orochi, the god that your grandfather summoned into himself in a mad bid for revenge against you.

You are Shinji Makiri, Ten years ago you suddenly found yourself with the memories of a complete past life that saw this world as a fictional story due to some unprecedented form of inter-dimensional transportation. Since that day, your new composite being has been working to change the grim future laid out for you.

To that end, you have done much, involving yourself with events and situations that have shifted the future away from the one that you once would have faced and instead onto one of uncertainty and chaos.

The Fifth Holy Grail War lies ahead of you, and the challenge and danger it represents to you, the people you care for and the world itself is far greater than you could have ever predicted. Though the grail might be corrupted and the war itself might be a sham, the stakes couldn't be higher.

Archive of Paradox Reincarnator: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=Fate/Paradox%20Reincarnator
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Last Thread: >>4747569
>>
"Ha... The goddess in question... and the goddess that was sealed... is none other than Ishtar, a God you are quite familiar with."

"Ishtar? That goddess? And you're saying that you had her sealed into a bottle?" Gilgamesh speaks with strangely concealed excitement in his voice. "You mean to tell me that of all things to happen, Ishtar crossed you and you... you put her in a bottle?"

"That's about what happened, it seems, though I had originally only requested for Assassin to break the curse making up her existence on the planet, it does appear as if she went above and beyond in her duties. Of course, this is honestly quite preferable, I look forward to forcing her to act as a maid for the girl she attempted to possess, or at least some some otherwise degrading job for a goddess. Ishtar had set up a curse containing her personality and power to-" You get cut off by Gilgamesh suddenly bursting into uncontrollable laughter.

"Haha... Hahaha! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" Gilgamesh starts to laugh uncontrollably. "That... idiot goddess! Sealed!?" He can barely even get any words out as he almost doubles over with laughter. "This is the funniest joke I've heard since... ever!" He continues laughing for almost a minute straight before he begins speaking once again, still terribly mirthful. "And... I know that you're telling the truth too! That idiot goddess really...!" He laughs again.

"I'm planning on perhaps having her be placed in a powerless puppet body, and I'm sure that I can come to some sort of arrangement where I can lend you her services, though I do wish for her to remain as a personal toy of the girl she attempted to overwrite most of all. You understand that, right?" Of all the people who have been wronged by Ishtar at this point, Illya is at the very top of the list. Having been considered nothing but a vessel for her, and being thought of as so unimportant that Ishtar attempted to simply erase the personality of Illya, just as she did to Fillia in a potential future.

"I might just have to take you up on that offer at some point, Outsider! What a level that fool has been brought to! And such a deserved level too!" Gilgamesh wipes a tear from one of his eyes, before finally getting himself under control. "Ahh, Outsider, you are an amusing sort, truly."

"Would you... mind putting the bottle in your vault when Chiyome brings it to us?" You don't want to risk it being broken, and Gilgamesh's Vaults are just about the safest place that anything can be stored. Nobody gets in the vaults except Gilgamesh, or perhaps a Divine Spirit with access to the Key to the Vault, but that's not really a problem here, as Gilgamesh hasn't carelessly just left such a thing lying in a cave to be used against him.
>>
Gilgamesh smirks wildly. "Of course, Outsider. The goddess Ishtar sealed into a bottle as a result of her own foolishness is something I consider equal in value to even the greatest of treasures in my vault! If only for the sake of my own amusement!" Gilgamesh almost goes on a laughing fit again, before he properly regains control of himself.

"Thank you, Gilgamesh. As for everyone else, I've come up with... a plan of sorts, that I believe may just be what allows us to claim victory. First off, Lugh!" You decide against even bothering to keep trying to communicate with Gilgamesh when he might just burst out into laughter again at any moment. You also decide against continuing the deception of using the name 'Fenri' or whatever it was that he decided to make his fake name, there's really not much point in continuing to try to use it now, it's not like anybody is possibly going to betray you at this junction.

"Yes, Shinji?" The wolf boy suddenly perks up when you mention his name, and begins smiling at you for some reason.

"I want to know if you'd allow me and Sakura ride on your back for the purpose of this mission. For the sake of additional mobility, of course. It's a long way down." Three kilometers, and you aren't sure if that's a total drop or a twisting tunnel. A straight drop would of course be far far simpler for you to manage, as you would simply have to ensure you survived the impact, rather than need to travel downwards.

"Of course! I... I mean, I wouldn't mind letting you ride on my back." Well, that's good that he doesn't have any issues with it. Though he was just a little bit too enthusiastic in agreeing to your request, you feel. Oh well, it probably doesn't mean anything anyway. You feel like you ought to spend a little more time with Lugh, considering just how powerful an ally he actually is.

"Well, there's another thing too... Medusa?" You look at the woman, who isn't wearing her blindfold right now. Then again, it's not like she has much use for Breaker Gorgon now that Three Faces allows her to seal her unwanted skills on a whim. Honestly, it's amazing just how powerful that Medusa is now. As a Servant, she's easily one of the strongest that could be summoned. In fact, with as many abilities as she has now, she's the sort of Servant that losing a typical Grail War with would require a very very stupid Master. Unfortunately for you, this isn't at all a typical Grail War.

"Yes?" Medusa steps forwards the moment that you mention her name. "What do you require from me, Shinji?" She's clearly optimistic to get her chance to help as well. You appreciate that you've managed to instill a sense of loyalty and trust into most of your allies. Medusa trusts you to be able to create a plan that will work perfectly.
>>
"I want to ask you if I can... borrow Bellerophon..." It's a very personal thing to ask, to simply tell a Heroic Spirit that you want to borrow one of their Noble Phantasms, but you feel like Medusa will happily allow for you to borrow something like Bellerophon from her. She does seem to actually enjoy your company, after all, and after you saved her and both of her sisters, she should owe you quite a lot. Not that you'd ever hold the fact that you did such a thing over her in order to try to force her into doing something she doesn't want to do.

"Bellerophon? Of course, but... I take it you would like for me to summon Pegasus for you as well?" Pegasus would indeed be a powerful ally here, but not nearly powerful enough for what needs to be done. No, the usage of Bellerophon is for none other than Lugh himself.

"That won't be necessary." You walk over to Lugh and pat him on the head. "It's not for Pegasus, Bellerophon enhances the abilities of any Phantasmal Beast that it is placed on, right?" You ask Medusa something both of you already know.

"That's true, but..." She doesn't seem to have figured out just what you're getting at. So you decide to just reveal things to her and everyone else here.

"Well, allow me to properly introduce you all to Lugh Beowulf here." You pick the boy up to show him off, you marvel at how light he currently is, he squirms just a little at being shown off like some prize vegetable or something. "Lugh here is an Incarnated Elemental in addition to a Phantasmal Beast, and is a three thousand year class mystery, if memory serves me correctly. When it comes to Phantasmal Beasts, Lugh is pretty much in a league of his own." Honestly, the only competition he has in the field of strongest Phantasmal Beast is Alítheia, and potentially Gugulanna, but unless you want to maybe extort the Ishtar in a Bottle into giving you the Bull of Heaven, Gugulanna isn't something that you're going to be summoning any time soon. "I want you to let me use Bellerophon on him. You're... OK with that, right Lugh?" You ask the boy as you put him back down on the floor.

"...Mostly? I suppose. Though if you really intend to properly ride me, you'd best hope you're capable of holding on tight!" Lugh says with a confident looking smirk on his face, he's carried you before, but actually riding him as a mount is quite a bit different. Still, with your Riding at A+, there's nothing to worry about.

"Oh don't worry, there's not a single beast on this planet that I can't ride now, thanks to Medusa." You smile at Medusa as you say that, and the woman blushes ever so slightly. Not the sort of reaction you were expecting from her, it seems like she's really started to act differently around you recently since the prison. "Now, Alcides, I need to ask you something as well..." The man looks up at you, and doesn't respond verbally. "I need to ask you if I can borrow Ares' Sash, it's crucial for my plan."
>>
"That thing?" Alcides suddenly materializes a band of fabric in his hands. "Sure, I wasn't planning of making much use of it anyway, so if you want to use it, feel free." He tosses you the powerful Noble Phantasm almost carelessly. Despite there being a tremendous amount of magical energy and divinity in the sash, he tosses it aside like it's actually nothing but garbage. Seems his dislike for divinity is burning quite a bit brighter today. Definitely something that you can blame Ishtar for. Speaking of Ishtar...

"Jason!" You call out to the blonde man, who's looking smugger than usual for whatever reason. You've got no idea why though. "Ishtar took you and Alcides' to the docks to complete your Noble Phantasm, didn't she? Did you make any progress in it?"

"Well, actually, I completed it after I was command spelled... but none of my Argonauts responded to my call for help. It turns out that none of them were willing to respond to my call for aid when the goal of the request was to 'help assist an insane Mesopotamian Goddess attempting to overwrite the mind of an innocent girl to achieve her vengeance on two heroes she doesn't like.' This of course left her very much unable to command the force of Heroic Spirits that I had offered to her. The lack of her expected aid gave your Assassin the extra time she needed to save my Master." Jason has a smug smirk on his face as he reveals that he managed to deceive Ishtar. Maybe he isn't such a bad guy after all? If he really helped that much in subduing Ishtar, he's at least worthy of some praise.

"Thank you for helping Illyasviel, Jason. Perhaps... I may have been a little wrong in my initial judgment of you." You aren't about to apologize for hitting him for badmouthing Medea, that's still a no-go, but Jason, while on the surface a self-serving asshole, does have the qualities of a hero. If he didn't then Chiron never would've even considered training him! He's proved himself as a hero already, his quick thinking allowing for Illya to be saved from Ishtar with greater success, though in truth, you don't actually know the full story about what happened on the boat yet. "Now, I need to ask you whether or not you can attempt to resummon the Argonauts? If you purposely failed in your original attempt at doing so, shouldn't you be capable of summoning them now that your goal is to save the world from an insane God?"

"I can, but... Well, I'll need to be on the boat itself for that." Jason explains. "A ship cannot sail without its captain, after all." Makes sense that he needs to actually be on the Argo to attempt to summon the rest of his crew, you keep that in mind. You'll have to decide whether you want to send Jason to actually go and attempt to summon the rest of the Argonauts or whether you want him to stay with the group here.
>>
You turn to Ciel as you fish a well folded piece of fabric from out of one of your pockets. "Ciel! You gave me this, and I think that it's about time I returned it to you. I... I'm going to need to ask you to wear it, so you can be undetected as we approach Orochi... Do you think that Lance of yours can kill a god like him?"

"I don't have a single doubt that the Lance of Longinus is capable of killing a god, Shinji. This weapon has been anointed in the blood of the Messiah himself, and as a weapon, it not only guarantees death, but it also has an incredible aptitude to slaying divine spirits and gods. This spear can pierce through even defenses that could block concepts from reaching something, if it is being wielded against a so-called god." Huh, it really does sound as if it is the ultimate anti-divine weapon! With any luck, a single stab with it will be all you need to take Orochi out! Though you honestly don't think you're going to be nearly that lucky.

"Good, good. Next up, Nobu..." You blurt out only the first two syllables of the girl's name as you call her next. "...naga." You finish her name after an awkward delay. She raises an eyebrow at you, but doesn't say anything else. "When we enter into the cave, I want you to use the Bluff of Okehazama to mask your presence OK? Your power might be crucial in allowing for us all to overcome Orochi, and if you can remain undetected in order to deal a lethal shot to the god, then all the better." With her anti-divinity specialization, Nobunaga will be as much a powerful ally in this battle as Gilgamesh and Enkidu both.

"Sounds fine by me." Nobunaga sounds glad to have been given a shot at actually killing the insane god herself. Though you make a mental note to only call her 'Nobu' when you've been given actual permission. It's a bit strange to give somebody you've only known for a few minutes a nickname, after all.

"Then Medusa, you're to take on your most agile form and wield Harpe as your main weapon. You can use your maximum strength and Cybele while sealing your divinity, right?" Three Faces ought to allow her to do something like that, right?

"I can do that, if Sakura provides me the energy to do so, it will be quite a draw so-" Medusa is about to explain the limitations of her newly gained skill, but it's simply something that doesn't really apply considering just who her Master is.
>>
"Don't worry about that, Medusa, I don't think it will end up being a problem!" Sakura beams a smile at her Servant, and you know exactly why. Now that she's seemingly got more control over the power she is receiving from Tiamat, that also might mean she's got control over the magical energy of the Beast Class Servant too, of course, this means that she's potentially got about seven times as much magical energy as a Holy Grail available to her, and with that much power on her side, she could likely use even her basic magic to completely engulf an entire city in a great black shadow, at a far far greater level than the Shadow in Heaven's Feel was capable of.

"I understand, then..." Medusa is suddenly engulfed in white light as she takes a smaller, and in some ways cuter, form. "I will take on my smallest and most agile form, a smaller target is beneficial when you're just as powerful as you would be otherwise!" She cheerfully explains, and her general disposition seems to have changed a little as a result of her taking on the form of a child.

"Very good, Medusa... As for everyone else, the general plan of attack is to bind him in human form. If it can be helped, killing any of Orochi's Servants should be avoided, as his Caster, who I believe to be Paracelcus, is clearly only working with him unwillingly, and may be a great deal of help in reversing whatever Ritual that Orochi is attempting down there. Gilgamesh, Enkidu... When we reach him, do you think you'll be able to bind this God with your chains?"

"Of course. No god can resist the power of the Chains of Heaven." Gilgamesh states with great confidence, and you... know that isn't quite true. Tiamat managed to break out of the Chains of Heaven after only a small amount of time, and even somebody like Heracles was powerful enough to break the grip that they had on him with the last vestiges of his strength. However, with two sets working together, the chains may just have more success at doing what they're supposed to do.

Well, now that everyone knows the plan, you suppose that there are a few last decisions you need to make.

>Send Jason to the Argo to summon the rest of his crew?
>>Yes
>>No

>Wait for Chiyome to come through before heading off to fight Orochi?
>>Yes
>>No

>Contact Chiyome telepathically to see how progress is going with healing your unconscious allies?
>>Yes
>>No

>Ask for any other allies that might be helpful for defeating Orochi who are still at Rin's home?
>>Yes (Who?)
>>No

>Write-in?
>>
Also, do you want another Interlude soon?
>>
>>4752077
Yes
>>
>>4752077
Yes, those are pretty fun.
>>
>>4752070
Ehhh, didn't Kingu hold Tiamat for 1 hour since GO dude falls asleep and Tia breaks out only when they wake up?
>>
>>4752077
Yeah
>>
>>4752077
Yes, I want to read about Zouken seething against Shinji.
>>
>>4752089
Oh shit, did it happen that way?
I completely forgot.
So did Shinji.
>>
I also have to insert some theory autism before planning takes the center stage.

Setanta profile from GO Arcade says this:

(In other words, a situation where the materialized hero Cu Chulainn does not possess either this Skill or the Noble Phantasm Gae Bolg————should be essentially impossible.)

Which means... Lostbelt Odin hiding in Cu Spirit Origin in Singularity F (which itself was mysterious) theory confirmed?

Awakening talk made me remember and look it up.

Now its plan autism time.
>>
>>4752089
How strong even was Babylonia Singularity's Tiamat? Stronger than Our Gal, or was her wrecking shit this hard as a Beast to be expected?
>>
You know what they say: If you need luck, generate your own luck. In the very literal sense from a certain half fairy.
>>
>>4752098
Basically Tiamat gets Chain'd, you fall unconscious and when you wake up is when Tia breaks out, some dialogue says its an hour iirc.
>>
>>4752103
I think they are equal? I don't think Tiamat ever dies or can die while life exists as a Beast. She just got pushed into Imaginary Number Space, so they are both living existences, even if Beasts manifest in what would be qualified as Saint Graphs.
>>
Gil is having pretty good time.
>>4752077
Yes. We have pretty big list of possible fun ones.
>>
>>4752103
>How strong even was Babylonia Singularity's Tiamat? Stronger than Our Gal, or was her wrecking shit this hard as a Beast to be expected?
Absolutely wrecking everyone's shit despite being held back by her own consciousness .

>>4752107
How convenient.
I love tell don't show as a writing technique.
>>
You know what, if it isn't too spoilery, I'll let you choose your own interlude.
Who do you want to catch up with?
This isn't a vote, just... giving me ideas.
>>
>>4752070
I would suggest voting, because I am going to call the vote in 40 minutes.
>>
>>4752119
I kinda want to see what the fuck is going through Paracelsus' head but that may be too much info for us?
>>
We should be able to give Ciel some buffs with Reinforcement, right? I don`t recall us every giving them to someone else.
>>
>>4752119
As I said before I want Zouken's POV right before Shinji teleported in and he summoned Orochi.

Or Waver preparing his travel to Fuyuki and what he has done since.
>>
>>4752077
Yes

Alright, planning time.
I think we should send Jason to the Argo, but not wait for them before we leave. Alcides will manage without the buff. Assclap will need some time to tend to the cursed. If he's confident that he can protect them from Orochi's curse then we should have them follow us a bit later on, after preparing for cursefuckery. They will arrive in our time of need. And if they don't get there in time and the cave collapses around them, spirit form should allow them to get out in time.

I don't see why we wouldn't want to wait for Chiyome. She only needs a touch per ally, it'll only be a minute

We shouldn't disturb our ninja while she's working.

The only other ally we have that we would want to come with is Aoko. The fifth would be pretty convenient to have. I say we ask her.

Also, we should ask Gilgamesh to keep an eye out for Obeithion in the coming battle. He shouldn't object to protecting the fairy saberface, and her being a fairy makes her vulnerable to Arc's power that Orochi gobbled.

And we certainly shouldn't forget to headpat our ninja and tell her we're proud of her when she brings us the bottle.

>>4752119
Waver's group for me. It was an option before. Mordred's battle otherwise, it was also an option.
>>
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>>4752064
>Though he was just a little bit too enthusiastic in agreeing to your request, you feel. Oh well, it probably doesn't mean anything anyway.
Oh no. Please tell me it's not what I think it is.
>>
>>4752119
Second briefing that happened after we went to save Medusa. Preferable from Ciel`s perspective.
>>
>>4752129
He wants you to "ride" him, if you know what he means.
>>
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>>4752129
He doesn't have a specific gender, so in the unlikely event that he finds a mate, he can adjust his sex according to his partner.
>>
>>4752135
I'm fearing having another contestant in Shinjibowl, not a cute wolf.
>>
>>4752127
I fully agree apart from
>Also, we should ask Gilgamesh to keep an eye out for Obeithion in the coming battle. He shouldn't object to protecting the fairy saberface, and her being a fairy makes her vulnerable to Arc's power that Orochi gobbled.
Let Mordred handle it.
And as I said in >>4752125 lets try to buff Ciel.
And SHIKI too.
>>
>>4752119
>Jason's S-
Just kidding.

An interlude from the POV of waver's group would be beneficial to us.
>>
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>>4752140
But he is a cute wolf.
>>
>>4752129
>In b4 Lugh adds his cute femboy behind to the harem all by himself
>>
>>4752119
Neco-Arcs at Ahnenerbe when it isn't a Carnival.
>>
>>4752141
Alright, we tell Mordred to protect her aunt(?). As long as someone's keeping an eye for her, it's all good.

I don't think we can reinforce other people, and I'm not sure we can afford to spend the mana even if we can. Truth is mana hungry, and we don't have Alitheia boosting our regen anymore.
>>
>>4752119
Waver
>>
>>4752135
Phantasmal Golden Werewolf OP even in this category
>>
>>4752119
Lugh
>>
>>4752145
To be honest I'm disappointed there isn't a Lugh plushie out there, I would buy it in an instant.
>>
>>4752143
yeah this would really be a help
>considering Waver just walked into the craziest grail war ever and his daddy's life is at stake
>>
>>4752119
Waver’s group, I’m wondering how much Waver’s been smoking since he’s gotten here
>>4752135
>more dangerous people who want Shinji’s dick
No way in hell that Shinji’s not going to be drained repeatedly after all of this is done
>>
>>4752149
Don't worry anon. Back Alley Alliance Nightmare confirmed Neco-Spirits as canon to non-Carnival as Lev Lainur Flauros gets stuck there while travelling from Singularity F towards a different worldline.

You may give up thinking that there are limits to the degree that jokes are not jokes in nasuland. haha
>>
>>4752119
Waver interlude would be fun
>>
>>4752150
Lugh should know some magecraft. As a Phantasmal he should have Regression to the Age of Gods to simulate AoG magic whenever, iirc? So he can probably use something.
>>
>>4752150
>aunt(?).
Technically, both Mordred and Obeithion are Saber's Clones.
This family tree is now a complete and total mess.
You may actually want to perhaps officially introduce Obeithion.
>>
>>4752163
The composition of his regression is the Phylogenetic Tree up to the 18th century, meaning he's pretty much just the ultimate shapeshifter and can take the form of anything he feels like.
>>
>>4752119
Got few other fun ideas.
Altrouge catching up on current situation in War.
First meeting of Chiyome with rest of our allies before the docks also sounds fun.
And I think you only did first part of Rin confronting Kirei.
>>4752150
I am not sure about our skills in reinforcing other people but idea to give Ciel some extra speed to get better use of her spear looks like a worthwhile investment.
Most of our training was focused on ourselves but I think we should be able to do that.
>>
>>4752164
Yeah, it's probably a good idea to get Artoria used to having clones of herself running around.
Grey too for that matter, I wonder if she'll stop feeling sad about losing her identity when she finds out there's like fifty Artoria clones in existence all with unique lives and personalities.
>>
>>4752070
>Send Jason to the Argo. Don't wait for them before we leave. Have Asclepius tend to the cursed. If he is confident he can protect the group from Orochi's cursefuckery, they should follow us later on. Spiritual form should keep them safe if they happen to be late and the cave collapses around them.

>Wait for Chiyome. It'll only be a minute. Headpat her when she brings us the bottle and tell her we're proud of her

>Don't contact her before she finishes.

>Ask Aoko to come with

>Introduce Obeithion who is something between Mordred's aunt and sister. Ask our King to keep an eye for her in the coming battle

>>4752164
Obeithion has some of Saber's memories, which is why I think she's more like Saber's sister. We consider BB something like a sister to Sakura, and it's a pretty similar situation.
>>
>>4752168
To put it in another way, Lugh has the same powerset as Ultimate Kars.
>>
>>4752168
Is Medusa capable of anything like Reinforcement, given she summons Pegasus through magecraft?
>>
>>4752171
Imagine if Gray learned of Servant Universe and the Mysterious Heroine line.

>>4752174
Based.
>>
>>4752174
WhatIs, can we Reinforce other people or is it just a self-buff?
>>
>>4752172
>>4752070
+1
>>
>>4752175
Perhaps if she was taught how to reinforce herself.
Back in the Age of Gods, reinforcing your own body with magecraft seemed to be pretty unneeded. Espeically for people as naturally powerful as Medusa.
>>
>>4752178
It's dangerous and won't last very long, but theoretically?
>>
>>4752170
oh shit yeah i wanna see how Rin's confrontation with Kirei went too
>>
>>4752183
Alright, not worth it then.

>>4752184
I'm pretty sure there was already an interlude about that.
>>
>>4752185
we didn't see the whole thing though
>>
>>4752185
there was
>>
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If only you knew somebody who had incredibly potent reinforcement magic.
>>
>>4752188
Ah, right.
>>
I recently read through some of the archive, and I'm really happy to see you haven't burned out the way I did, What. Good on you.
That said I want to clear the air on one thing. Fate/Awakening Mirror was a garbage fire by the end, with inconsistent pacing and characterization, and no clear direction. The entire thing was brought down by a lack of planning, a problem I didn't have in Akeldama.
It turned out so bad, and so unpleasant to write, that it effectively killed my investment in the entire Fate franchise.
Please don't confuse apologists for the quest with me.
That said, I do still intend to come back and finish it once I've put together some kind of coherent direction for an ending to go in. I would appreciate personally if you don't take it on yourself to do some kind of reinterpretation here.
>>
>>4752185
It ended right before Kirei was about to tell her all things he did.
>>
>>4752191
Yeah, but can she Reinforce someone from so far away and keep it up without coming into contact with Mr. Snake-Godbreaker? I actually don't know so uh, maybe we should ask.
>>
>>4752194
Oh, and also tone. Horribly inconsistent pacing, tone, and characterization.
>>
>>4752070
Switching >>4752172 to
>Send Jason to the Argo. Don't wait for them before we leave. Have Asclepius tend to the cursed. If he is confident he can protect the group from Orochi's cursefuckery, they should follow us later on. Spiritual form should keep them safe if they happen to be late and the cave collapses around them.

>Wait for Chiyome. It'll only be a minute. Headpat her when she brings us the bottle and tell her we're proud of her

>Don't contact her before she finishes.

>Ask Aoko to come with

>Introduce Obeithion who is something between Mordred's aunt and sister. Ask our King to keep an eye for her in the coming battle

>Send SHIKI and Ciel to the mansion and ask Medea to reinforce them while we're waiting for Chiyome. Reinforcement good, can't risk to bring Medea here.

>>4752191
Oh damn, why didn't we think of that in the first place.
>>
>>4752194
>>4752201
Wow, I thought you'd abandoned the board forever.
Now I feel kind of bad.
>>
>>4752070
>>4752205
+1
>>
>>4752194
I will never forgive you for what they tell me you did to Shirou and Sakura.
>>
>>4752119
I'd like a Taiga interlude to find out how she became a Master, and who is her Servant.
Waver's will likely win, but maybe afterwards this one will make it.
>>
I want a sakura interlude. GIVE ME THAT FLUFF QM!!
>>
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>>4752211
Honestly, inconsistent characterization is one of the main reasons I want to reboot my Castlevania quest instead of continue it, I felt like it would've been better ending it when Arthur became a vampire and figuring out a sequel from there instead of just allowing it to keep going on but I didn't want to let my players down.
>>
Sacchin interlude!
>>
>>4752194
Nice to see you're still alive sweets
>>
>>4752070
Supporting >>4752205 since it covers just about everything.
>>4752194
>>4752201
Neat. But are you sure you don`t want to adjust Awakening in some way and redo second part all together? You kind of painted yourself into a corner among other many things that went wrong.
>>
>>4752218
ΟΗ! The helicopter ride! What mother and daughter talked about! This needs to happen! Thank you fren, great idea!
>>
>>4752070
>>4752205
This
>>
>>4752070
I’ll support >>4752205
>>
>>4752211
Close to it. The last 6 months of that quest left the mother of all bad tastes in my mouth.

>>4752213
Heard it all before, anon. If it makes you feel any better, the first change I'd make in a rewrite would be cutting them from the story entirely.

>>4752223
It would absolutely be the best way to fix things, but I do feel like I'd be letting everyone who stuck with it to that point down.
>>
>>4752194
why'd u gotta make it edgy and have your MC kill Shirou tho
>>
>>4752070
Supporting >>4752172


>>4752220
This is kinda painful to look at. I guess she heard we confessed to Sakura.
>>
>>4752070
>>4752205
This
>>
>>4752070
>>4752233
Actually the variant with sending immortals for buffs is fine too if Gil doesn’t mind
>>
>>4752233
The image represents the QM's regrets.
>>
>>4752172
>>4752070
+1
>>
>>4752231
>the first change I'd make in a rewrite would be cutting them from the story entirely
for the best, rubs me off the wrong way when fanfic or sequels or anything kills off the main cast by using the new main characters
>>
>>4752231
It does not make me feel better. You cannot undo the past. You can strive to do better in the future, and I do wish you luck in that. I will certainly not be following though.

>>4752233
>This is kinda painful to look at. I guess she heard we confessed to Sakura.
It is. The MOMENT we're done saving the world, Monica, Bazett and Cu, we absolutely need to talk to both of them and tell them we love them both. It's the only chance we have at a happy ending.
>>
>>4752231
I dunno, I participated in the quest, but I would be fine with you restarting from the end of akeldama. I just want more content and a good ending, and if a full redo of awakening mirror was necessary for these things, I would fully support it.
>>
>>4752194
what are your honest thoughts on this quest?
>>
>>4752231
I wouldn't mind a reboot starting from the beginning of Awakening.

Maybe we can keep Ayaka's brother alive this time
>>
>>4752244
I didn't play it and don't want to give my opinion on something I'm not fully familiar with.
>>
>>4752242
>>4752233
Bros, the Medea images with the bleeding and crying came when Sweets came in and WhatIs realized they are still here while Awakening was talked about before.

Not to say Medea and others(!) shouldn't be handled carefully and well, but no need to panic as of this moment. You may panic at the first sign of trouble or sadness IC tho.

Yes, this is my optimism and hope. Also Lugh wants in on the bowl it looks like kek
>>
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>>4752070
>>4752205
Support.
Also damn, you sure this isn't the final boss?
With this level of preparation, I can't really think Manaka will be worse than this.
>>
>>4752251
>you sure this isn't the final boss?
You know, he honestly might be if you don't hurry up.
>>
How bad is it if Our Loving psuedo divinity Grandpa summon Lucifer or Satan?
Is Lucifer more stronger version of Satan or they will be separate entity
>>
>>4752231
Gonna break my lurking streak to say a reboot sounds really good at this point. I'm not sure anyone would enjoy continuing where we left off.
>>
>>4752249
Even if she didn't see it, many other people did. The will talk. This is what happens tomorrow if we don't nip it in the bud today. I am optimistic as well, but not if we keep avoiding the situation

>>4752251
Be afraid. Be very afraid. Paranoia carried us this far, let's not forget it.
>>
I'll say one last thing before I disappear again. The core problem that's kept me from coming back to Awakening Mirror for this long was my realization, partway through that quest, that many of the players were way, way, WAY more invested in the overall Nasuverse than I am. End of the day, the only Fate I really cared about was the 2004 VN, and that's a problem I still don't have a solution for.
>>
>>4752231
If you're actually asking to gauge interest, I'd enjoy a reboot too.
Preferably from the vote where we picked our class.
With no Saber and no Heilig available.
>>
>>4752070
>>4752205
This

>>4752231
>It would absolutely be the best way to fix things, but I do feel like I'd be letting everyone who stuck with it to that point down.
So long as you give it your A game and try not to repeat past mistakes they'll come around, if you do end up going the full reboot route hope you'll reshuffle some of the cast if only to avoid metagaming around the servants/masters we saw previously.
>>
>>4752254
>You know, he honestly might be if you don't hurry up.
>>
>>4752231
I feel like you don`t have a lot of room to work with considering how things were going in your last threads. Sword suddenly starting to hit people would feel really cheap.
And as somebody how participated for the most of Akeldama and Awakening I would be totally fine with you restarting second part. Preferable with other Servant class like Archer, Assassin or even Caster. Something for players to play creative with and avoid previous pitfalls.
>>
>>4752254
Final preparations and we're off. We should be fine. Right guys?

Right?
>>
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Some lore autism from Hollow Ataraxia to distract myself from the dangers we're about to walk into and what awaits after the War The Shinjibowl Navigation

Hollow Ataraxia has the first on screen and mentioned presence of a singularity. Illya explicitly calls it a singularity where the "future leads to the past" and "malfunctioning causality" appearsa and where "anything's possible", being a "mini-terminal". Good job Rin?

Image related as to what are examples of possibilities like Alien God, the Singularity where chinaman wanted to make an Elixir and the bleaching of the World/Singularity F? Also some weirdness with Kirei never surviving in any worldline and the Kirei-pseudo being suspicious as fuck and disappearing from the world entirely in 2004.

>>4752257
Not saying we don't have to hash it out pronto, but we should be absolutely clear then, and also not deceive them even unintentionally. Re:Others than these two as well, and including these two. Deception is death.
>>
>>4752267
>Deception is death
Agreed. We are Truth, and Truth will guide our way.
>>
>100 posts already
Damn, you niggas are fast.
>>4752260
yeah, that sucks, but you do need to know a shitlot of whatever you are writing or the players will out autist you.
>>
>>4752268
Speaking of, I think WhatIs has used 'honestly' at least once in like every update

Shinji is nothing if not truthful
>>
>>4752231
>It would absolutely be the best way to fix things, but I do feel like I'd be letting everyone who stuck with it to that point down.
As someone who stayed till the very end, I'd love to see a Redux of Awakening Mirror.
>>
>>4752205
>>4752070
+1
>>
Should we uh, just go in and have Chiyome follow us when she gets here while providing distraction?
>>
Has the vote been called?
>>
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>>4752295
I am now writing.
>>
>>4752297
Why haven't we rubbed or kissed those ears yet? Hell even lick them.
>>
>>4752302
Reminds me of a certain doujin.
But yeah, we should.
>>
Since we may see a Waver interlude in the...somewhen, we find out something interesting about Waver and why he's disliked in the Clocktower...I did not expect this, but I should have. Truly a modern magus.

In fact, the main reason why so many mages want Waver dead is because his MO is figuring out the inner workings of other people's magecrafts, changing them, and then patenting them under his own name.
>>
>>4752290
If Orochi has smart traps it is better to have her around.
>>4752260
>I still don't have a solution for.
It is actually has a very simple solution.
You should just avoid escalating things too high so a lot that extra stuff won`t play an important role.
>>
>>4752302
>>4752297
I wanna pet Gorgon's snake hair
>>
>>4752314
I want to put our dick in one
>>
>>4752302
Because up until very recently we've been playing oblivious protagonist. If all goes well, tomorrow will be a good day for elf-ear rubbing. Truth is on our side.
>>
>>
>>4752316
Would it be like some of those succubus tails
>>
>>4752311
Waver has this bizarre ability to see how a spell works by just looking at it being used, its weird.
Dude decreases mystery just by existing.
>>
>>4752319
Prob like Bobanons Manticore monster girl tail
>>
>>4752321
Hot
>>
Speaking of Waver, how did the Zhuge Liang thing happen anyway?
Is it gonna happen here?
>>
>>4752328
Marisbury just shoved a chinaman into Waver, fate of the world yadayadayada.
>>
>>4752328
they both got overworked to death i think, thats why he just let waver on the driver seat.
>>
>>4752328
>Is it gonna happen here?
Zhuge Liang in a bottle.
>>
>>4752335
Waver is the one in complete control tho.
>>
>>4752337
Zhuge Liang MAY get out of this without being bottled.
>>
>>4752340
Not Sima Yi-Reines tho.
>>
>>4752317
not really oblivious, more like purposely avoiding it
>>
Goddamn it I tune out for a day and we get Istar promised to being a maid. Why ya gotta nuke the dream!

Ishtar Rin is dead before it even started.
>>
Madea making a mystic code takes awhile doesn't it? Just find something to give fox wife so she can do it quickly.

We don't want to give Orochi more time.
>>
>>4752386
We would never shove her inside Rin. Rin wouldn't agree.
At best we make a puppet body of Rin to put her in.
>>
>>4752393
She would agree knowing the kaladeosword would kill Ishtars ego while giving her the positive benefits of being Ishtar Rin.
>>
Also why send Curl back? She's already fighting on the level of a servant. Besides you don't need them to go back of your having Madea create a mystic code to buff them.
>>
>>4752403
We're not asking Medea to create a mystic code. Reinforcement should be pretty much an instantaneous cast. We're waiting for Chiyome anyway, why not use the time?
>>
>Her rank makes her capable of creating healing potions that grant limited immortality
Speaking of Medea, why did we ever want Assclap's stupid potions anyway?
>>
>>4752456
Assclaps makes actual True Immortality with Gorgon blood that Taoist dudes would end the world for.. I kinda want one desu.
>>
>>4752439
How long are the effects of it active for? Plus we have the hope buff that is all around better.

We also don't have to wait for the ninja Madea could teleport her or use a command seal. Time really isn't on our side and waiting is probably going to allow final boss tk be summoned.
>>
>>4752456
Aside from his immortality potion Assclaps can also ressurect dead people.
Assclaps is a match for us when it comes to healing.
>>
>>4752466
Sadly only works if there is an Underworld to hold the soul or if you are fast enough that the soul hasnt dispersed yet. Not a lot of time, but not instant iirc.
>>
>>4752463
You know, it's probably a good idea for you to have these discussions when plans are being made rather than an hour after the vote is called.
>>
>>4752469
Wasn't around when the discussion was going on admittedly.
>>
>>4752460
>>4752466
Gorgon blood is needed for the resurrection potion, right? WhatIs confirmed it wouldn't work properly on a normal modern normal human, as it needs a soul and souls get instantly eaten by the Root in modern times.

>>4752463
Should be active for as long as Medea can sustain it, which should be forever now that she's not doing anything strenuous. Hope buff is good, but both are better.

Medea just told us that the mental link wasn't working properly until we opened the Gates of Babylon to link our location with the mansion. I bet Orochi has set up Master-Servant link ECM around here. I don't want to have to rely on mentally contacting her and bringing her to us with the interference.
>>
>>4752466
>Assclaps is a match for us when it comes to healing.
Assclaps can't heal cut death lines.
He can probably bypass them somehow by rearranging the structure of the body, but you can straight up no-sell them.
>>
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Here's your limited collab SSR bros
>>
>>4752475
Nice.
>>
>>4752475
Noice.
>>
>>4752475
Gonna be honest here, the previous black and red coloring suits him better
Nice though
>>
>>4752475
Cool.
>>
Reading through now I have questions. Why are you guys planning suicide via harem attempt? Is it meme voting?

You've known few of these women more then two weeks. If anything propose dating first and seeing if Sakura approves. Honestly if you guys wanted a harem outside Madea, Shuten, Sakura and Madea telling Sakura you loved her so.soon was a mistake. Should have allowed them to get to know each other first. We have already seen issues crop up because they haven't had the time to know eachother like the argument in the other city.
>>
>>4752475
neat
>>
>>4752478
And now onto the next question, if SHINJI is the hot new whalebait, which ParadoxReincarnator is going to be the welfare?
>>
>>4752475
Nice.

>>4752472
Main thing about gorgon potion is immortality, resurrection is a side effect iirc.
>>
>>4752480
I think black and red would suit the Counter Guardian version and that the blue and grey would suit his human look. Now that I think about it
>>
>>4752472
So how do you propose we get them there and back. Gil has to be getting pissed with ferrying people in and out of his gate.
>>
>>4752488
Yeah, it's the skin
>>
>>4752484
Uhhh....
Well, lets see
SSRs would include Sakura-Tiamat, SHINJI, Obeithion...
Kaleido-Ruby Rin, is probably the welfare.
>>
>>4752484
SHIKI not only is he the paradox reincarnator he is also not that strong aside from his immortality and blood swords.
>>
>>4752482
Part ensuring Enkidu was secured, part wanting to.
>>
>>4752491
Gate of Babylon is still open. We are currently Gil's second best friend, especially after what we did to Ishtar.

>>4752495
>SSR
>Obeithion
Holy shit
>>
I'd actually like to see where you'd put each Servant/Character not already in FGO on the scale of 5 star SSR to 1 star servants.

>>4752504
She's got a gamebreaking buff NP.
>>
>>4752488
Remember when you said Lugh was going to BTFO superchina Xianren? One of them, an exile, is Wuzhiqi, said to be the prototype of the story of Sun Wukong, from 9th Century BCE. Could be older because Proto Wukong. Tanks Rhongo+Dragon reactor. Reasonably certain they could eat 3 God fusion pseudo. You underestimated asian nasuwank. Am I underestimating Lugh and his Golden Werewolf bullshit?
>>
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>>4752495
>Kaleido-Ruby Rin gets summoned
>Sees Ishtarin.
Who wins?
>>
>>4752495
>Sakura Tiamat.
Are gachadudes getting a Beast finally? Tiamat-Sakura summon in next Carnival?
>>
>>4752504
Orion style NP but AoE

Her skills would offer insane passive stargen, np gain up, omnibuffs for the party and huge self crit up and star absorb so she's both a party support and artscrit monster. Like a significantly better masked chink

She'd be able to pair with her caster variant
>>
>>4752508
Kiara and Kama are both summonable
>>
>>4752506
Tanking a Rhongo from Gray is like the world's least impressive thing, honestly.
It's like when in DBZ they use those ki barrage attacks and the big cloud of dust shows up before slowly dissipating to reveal that they are completely fine.

Lugh has gone on multiple adventures with Touko and remained undefeated through all of them, meaning he defeated the Kraken, fucked up an Elder Title Dead Apostle Ancestor, that sort of stuff.
He's like Arc's dog cousin.
>>
>>4752506
I cut it off too soon for some reason. Her(his? Its a male deity/xianren in a female clone body) gets sucked intob a spacehole by Ruyi Jingu Bang which due to being the Dragon Kings Ocean Stabilizing Pillar, is a Rhongo like Texture pinning tool. cause its cool and prob means Wukong is hiding a lot of power. Watch out for them.

>>4752512
Aren't they in Alter Ego class and not Beast Container?
>>
>>4752514
Yeah I was underestimating Lugh. Mountain hobo fisting him must have colored my impression, even tho its more like an autism thing than actual defeat.
>>
>>4752515
Nothing summonable in that container no, Kama is an Assassin but effectively class changes via Mara Papiyas into an anti-alter ego class which doesn't even exist in the standard class affinity matchups
>>
>>4752505
SHIKI is the Izou of the banner, 3* Assassin that may end up being surprisingly popular

Sacchin 4* with her RM as NP, Nightingale-esque with the inflicts severe Atk down and NP damage down on enemies
>>
>>4752516
Yeah, he got his autism triggered because he got his heart exploded before immediately regenerating from it.
>>
>>4752510
I have actually never played F/GO and I understood about half these terms, but what I understood is tl;dr Obeith OP. I was underestimating her.
>>
SHINJI is a 5* Saver that when summoned suddenly unlocks a busted Strengthening Quest for every single servant you have that requires him soloing some difficult CQ based on their internal world where wrong dialogue options actually dead end you before the fight itself
>>
>>4752522
Lugh is actually capable of doing that offensive suicide bomb thing as well, iirc.
So he's actually a complete nightmare to hurt if you're trying to put him down, in addition to being immune to all magecraft created in the AD calendar.
>>
>>4752516
>>4752522
It was basically a cascading blow to his psyche as he realized that if he could get hurt he could lose and if he could lose he could die, and he got hit by a human which is something he discounted as especially impossible until it happened.
All of this gave him a fetish for humans with disproportionate destructive potential.
>>
>>4752531
>disproportionate destructive potential.
>deleting Roa
>Sword of Truth

Uh oh
>>
>>4752534
He's also actively seeking 'the Greatest Mystery' in order to fight them.
Can you guess who that is?
>>
>>4752538
Which four guests Orochi is inviting over for dinner tonight?
>>
>>4752524
>busted Strengthening Quest for every single servant
We never did that for redman, did we? Or Medea.

>>4752538
Oh, fuck.
>>
>>4752545
Shinji would have actual free time in Chaldea and LB releases only happen once a year now. Dead game
>>
>>4752545
What would you even give Medea?
>>
>>4752538
I want to say its God since its a who. Who would be more mysterious?

It could be us, if some Clairvoyant set us up
>>
>>4752548
Another child. Her daughter + blessing is already a buff
>>
>>4752547
They're really trying to stretch it as much as they can, aren't they?
>>
>>4752548
Our love.
>>
>>4752545
>>4752548
>Or Medea.
We have actually never used our power on Medea, our most useful servant by far?
>>
>>4752552
Nasu came out in an interview and said Fate ends after the lostbelts before his wranglers put him back in the cage and made him renig
>>
>>4752548
Ear nibbles.
>>
>>4752545
Fucking give Medea her Goddess Core already, or an Authority bit like a demigod.

I know its supposed to be part of Rule Breaker but thats all Helios' blood combining with spirits amounted to?
>>
>>4752554
She is already perfect
>>
>>4752558
See >>4752559
>>
>>4752548
Dragon.
>>
>>4752555
Lmao.
I can't wait for the next FGO threat after the Lostbelts end.
>>
We usually give them their concepts when saving them from their evil sides/someone else's control.
Medea just let us be her master, so we didn't really get the chance.
>>
>>4752564
You know what has multiples of that require long story arcs to fight and may get a sneak peek?

Its ya bois, the TYPES!
>>
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>>4752548
Our virginity. I'm sure it's important for a magus.
>>
You know what concept to install into Medea if we get the opportunity? Magic.
>>
>>4752564
He's gonna pull a Taro and make people delete their accounts for the golden ending

I clapped/10
>>
>>4752574
The types are merely a front for the true villain.
The company that built Lev's bomb.
>>
>>4752574
>Its ya bois, the TYPES!
Pretty sure they'll have to deal with ORT in LB7
>>
>>4752579
Apply the concept of Perfection

Come out of the trance

Find nothing has changed

Just for completionism's sake
>>
I do think we should buff Medea, she's the most useful.
People already said to give Redman Boundlessness, give her something fitting.
>>
>>4752588
>give her something fitting.
A wedding ring.
Along with Sakura, of course.
>>
>>4752578
Did she splooge all over our tatami mats?

Truly the evilest of witches
>>
>>4752582
Whoever they are, they're practically the only regular humans upholding the idea of science overtaking Mystery nowadays.
>>
>>4752582
Ah, those guys just like Tokiomi's unnamed "contacts" in Zero that somehow find and deliver the Original Shed Snakeskin to Tokiomi and dont bankrupt him or keep the fucking most ancient potential Mystery catalyst outside Avalon
>>
Biggest fight so far is coming right up and our first servant is sleeping through it

I hope she can at least be there for the Manaka encounter
>>
>>4752605
>our first servant is sleeping through it
It's so she can make a dramatic entrance and save the day with Kaiju Beaky.
>>
>>4752607
>Kaiju Beaky
One can only hope.
>>
>>4752605
Kinda funny isn't it
>>
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Update imminent.
>>
>>4752633
fucked up if true
>>
>>4752633
Big if true
>>
>>4752633
small if false
>>
"OK, Jason, return to the Argo and summon the rest of your crew if you can, it will be better if somebody like Asclepius is around to tend to those that were cursed not so long ago. Of course, if he's confident in his abilities, he should have the ones that he manages to resuscitate follow him to this area, along with the rest of the Argonauts." With somebody like him focused on the recovery of your allies, you won't have to worry about them anymore.

"Alright, sounds like a plan, but... are you absolutely certain that you won't need me here?" Jason asks, very unexpectedly, seeing as the man himself should be taking any opportunity he can to flee this battle, as he's pretty dreadful in combat. Then again, seeing as the world will probably end if Orochi wins, it's not like there's actually anywhere can run away to. Even if he sailed away on the Argo, the results of whatever Orochi is doing will be felt worldwide, you can feel it.

"What's the problem, Jason? I thought you liked commanding from the back?" You ask the Lancer, who frowns a little. While he's a coward, he doesn't seem to like being thought of as a coward. What an odd personality that he has. There's definitely a hero in there somewhere. If only Jason had been blessed in life with the strength of Heracles or the invulnerability of Achilles.

"Well, that's... true, it feels kind of personal for me and this Snake Bastard. He did try to eat me, after summoning me, and that's not the sort of thing that you end up forgetting very quickly." Jason has an angry look on his face as he remembers the traumatic experience of being summoned by the god. You can't imagine that a Heroic Spirit would take it very well, to be summoned and then immediately dismissed as 'too weak'. So you can see just why Jason wants to prove Orochi wrong. "Well, I'm sure that it won't be too long until I can catch up with the rest of the Argonauts to assist you in killing the son of a bitch." You have a brief thought, if they end up following you and the cave collapses, then spiritual form should keep them safe. Well, that and the fact that a regular old cave-in shouldn't have the mystery required to actually damage spirits like Servants anyway.

With those parting comments, Jason leaves through the still manifested portal to Rin's house, and a few seconds after he goes through the portal, another person comes through the portal. Namely, Chiyome, who immediately kneels upon catching sight of you, and draws a bottle from a hidden pouch to present to you. "My lord, I successfully managed to rescue your ally from the clutches of the evil spirit goddess, I have taken a... liberty in sealing her instead of dispersing her, forgive me if I have misread your intentions and I shall immediately see to the complete destruction of this 'Ishtar'." Chiyome's loyalty is actually kind of excessive.
>>
>>4752633
True if big
(Also test to see if my internet is being fucky)
>>
"Woah woah, hold on there, Chiyome." You approach the girl very quickly, before you place a reassuring hand on her head. "I'm glad that you met with success, and I'm even happier that you managed to capture the goddess in such a way. With her captured in that bottle, Illyasviel will be able to properly have her vindication against the goddess for trying to steal her body... I've been thinking of perhaps forcing her into servitude, mostly, but I'm sure that there are other potential uses for her if I really think about it." You take the bottle from Chiyome's hands, and raise it to eye level. "Perhaps I should see about using her as a Mystic Code? Or perhaps a potion that uses the essence of a goddess? Or maybe I'll have her used as a component in a strengthening ritual? There's many ways to deal with a goddess like this one, however, for as long as she behaves as a maid, I don't think erasing her will be strictly neccessary... You understand me, don't you, Ishtar?" You feel the bottle shake. Good. She's aware in there. You would've hated for her to have been given an out of not being conscious through this humiliation. "Good, then you're going to love this!" You lob the bottle towards the King of Heroes. "Oi, Gilgamesh!" You call out to the man, and he quickly snatches the bottle out of the air.

"Ho? Is that really you in there, Ishtar?" Gilgamesh has a mad grin on his face as he speaks to the bottle. "It is, isn't it? I'd feel that disgusting divine aura of yours anywhere! But now for all that power you were born with, you can't even break out of a simple charmed bottle! Maybe you should go crying to your father to help you? Oh wait! You can't!" He begins laughing wildly as he lobs the bottle over his shoulder and a golden portal opens to catch it. You hope that it doesn't break... Then again, it's unlikely that treasures contained within the Gate are even capable of being damaged in such a way... You wonder if the bottle being placed in the Gate of Babylon means that from now on, every iteration of Gilgamesh is going to be summoned with the sealed Goddess...? Probably best not to think about that too hard, even though it's actually kind of hilarious. You really hope it worked out like that. Gilgamesh being able to bully Ishtar whenever he is summoned in the future is something that's simply too funny.
>>
There's a few more things you need to do as well, and they mostly revolve around your home base, thankfully, your connection to Medea still seems to be functioning, so whatever is blocking it is either incapable of doing so with the Gate of Babylon link to Rin's mansion, or it is only capable of blocking connections that originate from outside the forest. 'Medea? Can I get you to ask Aoko to come through the portal? I could use her help here, as I have no idea just what sort of threat I'm about to face. Oh! and I'm going to send SHIKI through to you for a moment, would you mind using reinforcement magic on him to increase his combat capabilities?'

'Of course, Master. Give me a few moments and send him through...' You stroll over to SHIKI quickly after being given the go-ahead by the powerful Caster. You were considering also asking Ciel to go to Medea in order to be reinforced, but that's not needed at all, the girl already has all the magical knowledge of Roa, who was himself a magus on the level of one from the Age of Gods, so self-reinforcement for her is actually very simple, and she won't hesitate to use it.

"Oi, SHIKI, I need you to return home for a few seconds, I'm going to have one of my allies make you more powerful temporarily, so you can be of more help in the coming battle." You tell the freshly made immortal to go and make himself actually useful for the coming fight. As he is now, he's pretty much just a punching bag for anybody with superior physical abilities.

"Alright." SHIKI doesn't say much at all as he quickly jogs through the portal. You can tell that Gilgamesh would normally not be all that pleased by having his Gate used for such a mundane purpose, but at this point, Gilgamesh is probably at around the happiest he has ever been. You doubt that there's anything that can knock him off of his current high at this point. Enkidu has come back to him and is now immortal, he's found a girl he fell in love with, and to top things off, the woman he hates the most has been put into a bottle.
>>
While you wait for SHIKI and Aoko to arrive through the portal, you move over to Obeithion. "I... probably should have introduced her a little earlier to everyone, but this is Obeithion! She's... what happened after I saved Manaka's version of Saber. It turns out she was some form of copy based on her spirit and her memories, though... an imperfect one." Obeithion looks down to the floor awkwardly, trying to avoid eye-contact with all these unfamiliar people. "After I used my abilities on her to imbue her with hope, she... became a Fairy. So I suppose that you could call her a Fairy Queen?" You then look over to Mordred. "I guess she's... something like your aunt, Mordred? Or maybe your sister? It really depends on how you want to go about it."

"An aunt or a sister...?" Mordred looks at Obeithion with a discerning eye. "Does it really matter? She's younger than I am, and she's related to me, so I'll treat her like my sister!" The king makes her declaration, before walking over and looking at Obeithion, the apparently shy fairy slowly raises her head to meet Mordred's gaze, before being given a friendly smile from the King. "Let's get along, OK?" She pulls the fairy into a slightly awkward hug. Huh, you weren't expecting Mordred to so quickly accept the existence of this new relative of hers, but you suppose it's for the best. Mordred seems to have learned from the mistakes that Arturia made, and seems pretty proactive about not allowing them to repeat. So when she sees an existence who is both a fairy and could be called her sister? It's pretty obvious that a good relationship needs to be formed.

"Oh...OK then... sister?" Obeithion really doesn't seem like she has much confidence with this many people around, which is strange, considering just how much hope and willpower she is able to infuse people with when she uses her Noble Phantasm. It's quite ironic that she seems to be so shy. Then again, she doesn't exactly have much life experience outside of a week of being a Servant to a psychopath and whatever she's got from Arturia's memories that were retained.

Mordred walks off with Obeithion somewhere in order to talk with her sister somewhat privately, and while she does, Enkidu finally finishes moving the last of the rubble from the entrance to Orochi's lair, at around the same time that SHIKI and Aoko are walking through the portal, the two of them chatting rather amicably with one another before stopping upon coming through the portal. Your allies are all together now, and everything seems to be in order. Is this it? Is it finally time for you to go and face Orochi?

>Yes, the time of Orochi's death has come.
>No, you need to do one last thing (what?)
>Write-in...
>>
>>4752676
>Yes, the time of Orochi's death has come.
There's nothing we can do now that's worth the delay.
>>
>>4752676
>Yes, the time of Orochi's death has come.
Nothing else to do. Let's go kill grandpa.

And oh god, did we really just give every future instance of Gilgamesh Ishtar in a bottle? I'm laughing like a madman.
>>
>>4752676
>>Yes, the time of Orochi's death has come.
Let's fucking go
>>
>>4752676
>Yes, the time of Orochi's death has come.
Time to job.
>>
>>4752676
>>Yes, the time of Orochi's death has come.


Are you gonna try and squeeze in another WhatIs?
>>
>>4752676
>Yes, the time of Orochi's death has come.
Lets go!
>>
>>4752676
>Yes, the time of Orochi's death has come.
LET'S FUCKING GO
>>
>>4752695
Of course.
Maybe two.
>>
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>>4752676
>Yes, the time of Orochi's death has come.
Everyone put on your war face!
>>
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>>4752706
Based.
>>
>>4752676
>Yes, the time of Orochi's death has come.

Finally time
>>
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>>4752708
Ok.
>>
>>4752714
Is dude on the left Nagato?
>>
Should I call in ten minutes?
>>
>>4752723
Call now
>>
>>4752676
>Yes, the time of Orochi's death has come.
>>
>>4752676
I hate it when I get the feeling we’re forgetting something. Maybe we should grab Betty after all. But we can just CS teleport her to us if it comes to that right...

> Yes, the time of Orochi's death has come.
Enough lollygagging.
>>
>>4752723
This one is pretty unanimous, we've been planning for like the past two threads
>>
>>4752723
Just call. It's obvious.
>>
>>4752729
if we keep fingering our asshole he guaranteed gets off all 4 summons. we're well beyond the point of diminishing returns on time investment
>>
>>4752723
Call now
>>
>>4752732
Called.
Let's go then!
Hey, can somebody remind me of the capabilities of Command Spells and the man who created them real quick?
>>
>>4752738
So I guess it’s not a good idea to rely on those in his presence? Good thing our allies are naturally loyal to us at least.
>>
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>>4752744
Haha, yeah.
>>
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>>4752738
>>4752746
Aw fuck
>>
>>4752738
They are Curses that do shit. They are vast amounts of magical energy. They can make ether bodies do absurd shit or boost living beings ala Kirei or Kintoki.
>>
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fastest vote in the quest

shame the fastest gun in the west isn't around to brain zolgen again after deadjew stick cucks his immortality somewhat
>>
>>4752750
But what's one very special thing that they can do?
>>
>>4752738
Well, it's not like we could ever go after him without bringing any servants with us.
>>
>>4752757
They can incarnate to life a Servant if youbuse up 3?
Otherwise I don't remember a unique thing compulsions or other Magic cant do
>>
>>4752676
>Yes, the time of Orochi's death has come.
>>
>>4752757
OBEY. SUFFER. OBEY. SUFFER.
>>
I guess he could try ordering Servants to suicide if its a very intrinsic use?
>>
>>4752762
Well what can we do about risk of spelljacking anyway? Incarnate all our Servants here and now?
>>
>>4752768
We have pretty much no counter to this and we never did, so I doubt it. I think he can just hijack them, which is also a problem.
>>
>>4752770
In that case we’d also have to incarnate the absent ones I guess if we don’t want Medea to relive Jason’s wedding day in new setting etc. although honestly I don’t think Medea would do that even if Commanded.
>>
Anyone have the full list of allies here at this very moment?

As far as I can see every servant here has A rank or better/equiv Magic Resistance
>>
>>4752792
It doesn’t matter, you can force magical energy into command seals to make it more powerful
>>
Oh and off topic but in Nigkita's NP chant she mentions Vastness, Freedom and Boundlessness, stack them together to form Endlessness

Which should imply Endlessness is the composite concept of the three in fate.

Might be worth considering for something

>>4752797
It's enough delay for Chiyome+Gil or Shinji to do something about it though
>>
>>4752770
Incarnation requires absurd amounts of power, like a Grail or bullshit like having Caliburn acknowledge a new King of Britain. We MIGHT be able to do it if we steal his philosopher's stone, but it'll be impossible without Para and extremely difficult anyway.

So, assuming he can hijack Servants in his presence:
Our Command Seals are screwy, and we are Truth. We might be fine. Regardless, Chiyome is impossibly loyal to us, and Command Seals are curses. She'll help us pull through.

Sakura might be able to dab on him with Nullification. Losing Medusa and Nobu will be devastating otherwise. And we were planning to give her Para.

Mordred is incarnated.

Enkidu has no gods, no masters.

Gilgamesh laughs at the pitiful god's attempt to control him.

Alcides is probably the one in the most danger of being controlled by yet another god today. He will SEETHE.

I don't think we have any more servants around after we sent Jason away.

Assuming he can hijack CSs in his presence, even if the Servant is elsewhere: Shuten, Medea and Morgan suddenly attacking is probably game over for the mansion.
>>
>>4752800
Also Enkidu since he can simply flee it now, but yeah we should warn Gil that Orochi might try something with command seals
>>
Also, this explains why he wasn't concerned with us stealing his Servants.
>>
>>4752757
Allow the Master who won the Grail War to betray the last Servant and force them to kill themselves, because you need souls of all 7 Heroic Spirits?
Haha....
That would suck.
>>
>>4752802
That's an easy mention for the ride down
>>
>>4752801
As CS are confirmed not a free action he'll have to order Alcides to do even the most mundane shit with a CS order every single time, Chiyome can fix that and as she's not attacking, just using PC and dispelling curses Alcides actually can't detect her properly
>>
>>4752812
Yeah. If I'm right, it'll be a big blow, but not a devastating one. At least if Sakura can resist him too.

If I'm right.
>>
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>>4752800
Speaking of Majin Okita, how do we contact Alaya next time?
We were hoping to free Redman and Saber, maybe getting Okita too.
Do we have to wait for her to call us?
>>
>>4752814
Absolute metagaming without proper knowledge but we could have also had Medea RB Obeithion before all this as she doesn't need a master
>>
>>4752812
Yeah but he has eight heads tho
>>
Ah, crap. We gave Nobunaga to Rin. Sakura has Obeithion. This might be a problem.
>>
>>4752825
They both have IA, the risk is if they're without CS he just force contracts them anyway though
>>
>>4752823
>could have also had Medea RB Obeithion
Too late now. Medea is not here, and I'm not risking asking her to teleport here in the god-eater's cave.
>>
We would have had no chance at this without detouring away to pick up Gil and Enkidu though, what gives God?
>>
>>4752757

Can we use Truth to encrypt and obfuscate the link, in the way we strengthened it before?
>>
>>4752827
We don't really know what he can do. I'm assuming he can hijack existing contracts, but not auto-contract servants. And assuming Sakura's Nullification dabs on him but Rin's normal spell doesn't, we'll need to break Nobu's contract again, and under Orochi's gaze now.

He also may have a limit of seven at the same time, or he wouldn't have needed to eat the first batch in order to summon a second one.
>>
>>4752836
8 heads, 8 contracts
>>
>>4752838
Why didn't he keep Billy then?
>>
>>4752845
He's a mage, distain for modern plebs
>>
>>4752838
Wasn’t it 8 heads, 8 actions per turn?
>>
>>4752852
Either or, probably has parallel thought abilities and can both maintain ritual focus while fighting, but if we can get a Hydra potshot in that should cause a bit of internal screaming
>>
>>4752832
God told us to ignore Monica, Bazett and Cu. Not to drop absolutely everything and rush to Orochi. We would have been absolutely fucked without Chiyome too, and that was also a detour.

All part of the plan, I assume.

>>4752849
The wolf then?

But anyway, the point is that he might have a limit. Whether the limit is 7 or 8 is less important.
>>
>>4752858
Lobo is from almost the exact same time and place as Billy, he's very modern
>>
>>4752861
Huh. I'd say interesting, but I don't actually care about the wolf all that much.

Anyway, Orochi stealing some servants sounds like the perfect overnight autism cliffhanger.
>>
>>4752868
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobo_the_King_of_Currumpaw

Don't tell Enkidu that, doge had a hard life.
This'll be my last day I can 100% commit to autism too
>>
>>4752873
>spoiler.
Fuck. We're just about to fight Orochi man. How will we deal without you?
>>
>>4752877
I'll still be around just unlikely to have time to write up another manifesto on the answer to the snake question
>>
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>>4752821
Wait for the next time Shinji goes to sleep
>>
>in addition, this skill provides Nobunaga with massive resistances to any attacks or abilities that are divine in nature. Even something like a smiting bolt of lightning from a God like Zeus using a large amount of his power would have little effect on her
Nobu will probably be fine. Good thing we asked her to choose herself. Invisible volley would be a nightmare otherwise.
>>
>>4752882
I hope you'll be able to contribute ideas, even if not a full manifesto.
>>
>>4752887
>Sentiments for the Beyond: A+
An Anti-Mental Interference skill that allows Medusiana to overcome anything that might try to take control of her by recalling the four people that she cares for the most. So long as Medusiana doesn't forget their faces, she won't ever let herself fall. Also functions as a skill that causes Medusiana to do added damage against both Monsters and Men... with the exception of one man.

I posted this before but Obeithion is the only one to worry about.

So in this conversation we have with Gil about CS interference theorise she may be vulnerable and he may have a solution
>>
>>4752892
I don't think we'll have time for a conversation. WhatIs gave us the idea, so I assume whatever happens happens next update.
>>
>>4752895
We did tell him to protect her, he'll figure it out
>>
>>4752897
I don't think we actually did, but he should figure something out regardless.

Shit, I feel bad we missed this. We knew Zolgen has mastery over the seals. We knew he wasn't worried about us stealing his servants. We had enough pieces to figure it out. I can't believe we weren't paranoid enough.
>>
>>4752898
Too many things to micromanage
>>
Alcides could have been RB'd and operated off Oblivion Correction hypothetically, and Morgan could have given him A rank Independent action however she was incapacitated at the time.
>>
You actually missed something else.
>>
>>4752920
But then he could use near none of his Orders without master support. Bazdiliot was feeding Alcides literal truckloads of human crystals to operate in FSF. I'm not using a figure of speech either, trucks full of crystallised mana made from tens of thousands of lives taken by the mob to be burnt as magical fuel
>>
>>4752926
...fuck
>>
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>>4752926
>>
>>4752926
Update coming along?
>>
Is it the suicide thing? Because I can't think of any way to save them if it's the suicide thing.
>>
>>4752937
Alcides has a resurrection banked, soul does not leave instantly and Dr. Assclap is on the scene soon
>>
But despair s good for feeding RM kino moments so nothing lost, nothing gained
>>
>>4752926
CMON MAN WHAT? Is it his other servants that he can command seal in?
>>
Do you remember that bracelet Gilgamesh gave you?
>>
>>4752950
Now we do, yes.
>>
>>4752949
We talked of that before iirc

>>4752950
chekov's bracelet?
>>
Yes. The time of Orochi's death has come. You've spent enough time planning now, and you just want to rid this world of the god already. You've wanted to kill Zouken for about ten years now, and if you have to kill a god in order to finish the job, then so bet it. "Everyone! This is it! Let's go!" You look at the form of Lugh, a relatively large golden wolf wearing a bridle and reins. He looks kind of silly like that, honestly, but you don't let him know that you think that. He probably already feel awkward enough about being made to wear something that was so obviously designed for a horse in the first place anyway. You take Sakura's hand as you leap atop the golden wolf.

The rest of your allies follow your lead as you lead the charge, though Ciel has become completely invisible as a result of the Shroud of Matthias. While your other allies might be able to currently see where she is, you can only really hope that she's keeping up with the rapid pace being set by the group. Aoko and SHIKI are keeping up thanks to magical reinforcement, and Nobunaga is surfing atop a single floating musket, easily matching pace with you and Lugh. Gilgamesh is sitting in some sort of golden floating chair, not the Vimana, but a smaller floating vehicle. Everyone is keeping pace with the charge, even though you're not nearly pushing Lugh to his limit.

The cave itself has been carved out of solid rock, and seems to spiral downwards in a sort of helix shape. You travel downwards for about 3 minutes, and you begin to wonder just how deep this tunnel actually goes. Nobunaga mentioned a number around three kilometers deep, so you should be approaching the bottom of this spiral now.

Then, Lugh comes to an abrupt stop, and you look to see why. "It... just ends?" You are left completely dumbfounded by the lack of any "Nobunaga, what's going on here?"

"I... I have no idea! The tunnel should open out into a chamber here! I... I swear!" The Demon King is left completely off guard by the sudden development.

"No, you're right. There is something wrong with all this." Enkidu quickly makes an observation and places a hand on the bare rock surface. "No... There's definitely something here, it's just-" You don't get to hear Enkidu finish his observation.

Enkidu disappears. Or rather, everything around you disappears. Where before you were sitting atop Lugh with Sakura holding onto you tightly from behind, you're now sitting on a cold stone floor. Spatial Transportation Magic?! Damn it! Why weren't you wearing the bracelet Gilgamesh gave you?! You feel like a fool as you look around you to gauge your surroundings.
>>
>Unnamed Noble Phantasm : C-rank (C+++ rank) Anti-Spatial Interference Noble Phantasm
A Noble Phantasm given to you by Gilgamesh, when activated through the use of spacial interference magic on the wielder, anything from teleportation to attempting to drag the wearer to a world outside of Gaia, it will activate and cover an area with a radius of a kilometer with a bounded field preventing the usage of any any all forms of spatial interference.
In addition, this Noble Phantasm is part of a set of two, the power of the bounded field is considerably increased when both are worn by two separate people. The only exceptions to the bounded field's ability to deny spatial interference are the wearers of this Noble Phantasm. When the two are together, even True Magic should be blocked.

So he's going to drag this fight into the soul of the planet or something retarded?
>>
"Oh, so you're the one I'm supposed to eat, are you? I was wondering why my Master called me back, but I suppose I can't complain too much about getting fed." A woman with a spear and a large reptilian tail comes into view, and she's getting closer and closer to you! Wait a minute! This is... Vrita! You don't remember much about her, but what you do remember is that this woman is exceptionally dangerous, and you don't have a Servant to help you against her! "Don't try to run, you're completely trapped down here, so you may as well submit to your fate."

[Status Updated!]

>Attempt to talk to Vrita and use diplomacy to get her on side. (Say what?)
>Reinforce yourself, prepare to defend yourself!
>Form a barrier of truth around yourself, and then try diplomacy. (Say what?)
>Use a Command Spell, summon a Servant to you! (Who?)
>Write-in...
>>
>You feel like a fool
You got that right...
>>
Vrita should simp to

>Blessing of the Queen of Dragons: A++
>A skill representing an incredibly close relationship to a great dragon on the level of myth. Allows for the riding of all dragons so long as the level of the Riding skill is high enough. Weaker willed dragons and wyverns will feel the urge to defend and obey the owner of this skill. Additionally, any attacks made against dragons or those who have slain or enslaved a dragon in their past will have the attack's rank raise by one level and bypass any forms of magical protection. If one has enough magical knowledge, summoning Dragons from the Reverse Side of the World becomes possible.

A bit

Vrita is a conceptual obstacle too. How fitting
>>
>>4752965
You forgot that Command Spells are capable of Teleportation, and Orochi has access to a gigantic Philosopher's Stone.
>>
>>4752971
No, we knew that. We were just assuming he'd drag his last five servants in for the final confrontation. We weren't expecting to hijack us.
>>
well she's a dragon and divine, weird that Orochi didn't eat her, also

>Fated Enemy of God (A Rank): Although Vritra is told in various ways by folklore, its role has not changed. Skills that show the existence that is fundamentally in opposition to God, its invariant position and significance of existence.
>>
>>4752979
Vrita is a demon/dragon/snake
Not a god.
>>
I think we have to fight, she'll always come back when defeated by one of God, it's her nature.

Dragonblessing gives us bonus damage.

However Vrita is susceptible to being conned into offering a weakness that doesn't seem like a weakness.

Indra promised a load of restrictions on himself in his fight, which Vrita obliged, then he went and pulled an absolute asspull weapon on her to catch her offguard.
>>
God-fucking-dammit, I hope we don't lose anyone for forgetting that stupid bracelet.
>>
I think we should speech check it, our blessing probably makes it so she kinda wants to hear us out and the fact that she hates Gods but serves Orochi? That contradiction has to eat her up, especially since we don't care for Gods either
>>
>>4752986
She is supposedly an enemy of gods too. Can't we talk-no-jutsu her? Maybe WITH the truth bubble?
>>
>Indra battled the dragon Vritra, but Indra had sworn an oath to Vritra to not hurt it with weapons made of wood, stone, metal, or any other conceivable weapon, to not hurt it with any object dry or wet, and to neither attack it during the day or night. Indra attacked at twilight, neither day or night, and used a column of sea foam, not wood, stone, metal, dry, or wet, to defeat the dragon.

Definitely opening with a diplomacy that likely leads to combat that leaves her exposed so something she won't expect, we only need 10 seconds of contact
>>
I actually hate riddles so someone chime in on what conditions we're offering her that we can use Truth to absolutely meme and catch her offguard
>>
>>4752994
What do we gain out of offering her conditions, exactly?
>>
She's also an absolute glutton which is something we can offer
>>
>>4752994
well she hates the Gods yet she's serving one, she's also sent to kill a lowly mortal because her master is apparently too cowardly to deal with one himself, he also absolutely doesn't care about her whatsoever and is just using her as a means to an end
>>
>>4752996
A chance to 10 second fondle her to break her contract?
>>
Now, what did Orochi just do exactly? Did he teleport just us? Every Master? Or everyone?

If it's just us, we'll be fine. We can talk Vritra around. The others will be fine until we meet up again.
If it's all Masters. Mordred is probably dueling Siegfried and Vortigern about now. I don't want to think about what he might have prepared for Sakura.
If it's everyone, well, fuck. It's the attack on the temple all over again.

>>4753002
Yeah, but from what I'm seeing she's not actually offering anything back for those restrictions. And we have to convince her to turn on Orochi too, or she eats us regardless.
>>
>>4753009
Who would she rather eat? a simple human or a snake god?

Pet scaley tail
>>
>>4753009
Have faith in gilgamesh anon he won't job while we're gone hopefully....
>>
We also have lots of pretty girls for Vrita to oggle as something to throw into the bargain

>It is a mystery why she was summoned in the body of a female.

>She might either be imitating Rambha, because of the anecdote where she was sent to him and he became a prisoner of her beauty and died according to Indra's scheme, or perhaps she became a beautiful woman to show off her determination to "never fall for Indra's cowardly tricks again".

>Fundamentally, Vritra is an existence that transcends gender, and since their true nature won't change regardless of their gender, they merely possess a disposition as a female that would match with their current form as the Servant Vritra.
>>
>○Fated Divine Enemy: A
>Although Vritra has been spoken of in various forms in legends, her role has always remained the same.
>A skill that demonstrates her eternal position and raison d'être as an existence opposing the gods.
>>
Ok so I think this is what we should do, our speechcraft is better around Dragons so I think that's the way to go

>Why are you serving the God Orochi? I was under the impression that you hated Gods?
>Your divine master was too cowardly to deal with a lowly mortal that's going against him
>Why not take this chance to rebel against the Gods once again?
>>
>>4752984
Well, she's technically a divine spirit, but Orochi doesn't want to take on the nature of a demon.
>>
>>4753015
We don't really have to offer conditions for a fight, just convince her.

Looking at her F:GO dialogue for relevant plays:

>I'm Vritra. Seriously, what does a human want this snake to do…? I'm a demon who only moves of their own desire. You better not think you can tame me.
>Gluttony. Lots, and lots, and lots of gluttony.
>Are snakes dragons…? Even if you ask me I don't know. Humans just started to use those words as they pleased.
>You know, I… Truth is, I like singing and dancing, the pleasant performances of humans. There is someone here who excels at those, isn't there? Alright, bring them to me.
>Something I don't like. Uuuum. I can't drink booze. It makes me sleepy before long.

So, she's anti-god, anti-taming, a glutton, an admirer of singing and dancing and other human performances. We can work with this. We can offer her a life of luxury and the world's best delicacies and entertainment, as well as the chance to spit at the god who tried to tame her if only she'll help us.
>>
>>4753025
This plan is all coming together
>>
>『O Demons, Cover the Heavens and the Land in Their Entirety』
>Rank: EX
>Classification: Anti-World Noble Phantasm
>Range: 9~99
>Maximum number of targets: 1000

>Asura Sreshtra.
>A Noble Phantasm crowned with Vritra's other name: "the greatest among the Asuras".
Using her retainers, or more like, the army of demons who are offshoots of her body itself, - in accordance with her raison d'être - she wraps up the heavens and the land, isolating the targets.

>Vritra is not only an evil dragon but is also known as an Asura (a demonic race), possessing the name Asurendra (king of the Asura). Since in the Mahabharata, there exists a description of Indra and the gods tormented by a large army made up of demons such as Kalakeyas and Rakshasas, it not only possesses the authority to "hold back something", but can also be used by her as an army of pure violence.

So we're greeting her as Vrita, the greatest king of Asuras

We're also asking why she serves a God, her fated enemy, and that we can remove his shackles from her if she desires.

Ask her why she'd prefer to eat a mere human when we can offer her the god who enslaved hers heads on a plate instead.

And we're also potentially mentioning how many beautiful women we have with us her to oggle, how much wealth and offerings we can bestow upon her.
>>
All goes well this archived thread will be titled something along the lines of in which Shinji bribes off a glutinous lesbian snake girl with a life surrounded by women and food.
>>
You may or may not have 30 minutes to decide.
I'm feeling a little bit tired.
Gonna drink some coffee.
>>
>>4753046
Ok what's the plan then? Bribe the snake lesbian with food and women right after we question why she's serving a divine master that doesn't give a shit about her?
>>
It says she likes seeing humans rise up to beat her, she likes playing the villain.
>>
>>4752961
>Why is the Greatest king of Asuras serving a simple eastern god all of a sudden, Vrita?

>Are gods not your fated enemy? How could you be reduced to this?

>Rather than eat me, a mere human, allow me to break the shackles this god holds over you with my magecraft, and I will hand you his heads on a plate.

>If this is not appetising enough, I can add that I am one of the wealthiest men of this age, and can offer you no limit to the food and pleasures, especially beautiful women that are available in this modern era.

>Or would you instead continue to serve your supposed fated enemy?
>>
>>4753071
>>4752961
Sounds good, support
>>
>>4753071
Supporting the man of black
>>
Vrita finds Karna fascinating too, as Indra stole his armour yet he holds him no ill will.
>>
>What she enjoys the most is watching the growth humans undergo after overcoming the hardships and obstacles that she prepared.
>It is by no means due to affection; you can clearly feel the pleasure gained from her one-sided perspective (which is surely that of a god) of looking down on them from far above.
>That's why she doesn't go easy on them. She has no restraint.
>She prepares obstacles that could even be seen as absolute evil, but it's not like she's wishing for humanity's destruction.
>She simply wishes to see a stronger future, a stronger world, a stronger humanity.
>In short, she's extremely sadistic towards the world.
>To put it another way, she is an overly strict trainer and audience of the world.
>It means she believes in the strength of mankind as "someone from the side of evil".

She wants humans to overcome her, to triumph over evil and grow stronger.
Not sure that "mere humans" will work well on her.
>>
>>4753071
Support
>>
Shit this gives Orochi even more time
>>
Let's all just pretend that Vrita was added prior to Christmas 2020 for the sake of my sanity.
Haha.
Oops
>>
>>4753091
I wasn't gonna tell if you wouldn't.

Otherwise this is situation is just dead end after dead end

Also Indra's Vajra that's lodged in her mouth has very interesting options as a catalyst

>>4753087
That's why we don't ask her for anything but to let us pass and confront the threat ahead of us.
>>
>>4753091
Something something timelines of an alternate Real World
>>
>>4753093
Maybe we fuck up and summon based Indrajit
>>
She's also have neat dialogue with Medusa.

I wonder if its worth amending the autism to include singing and dancing as modern pleasures
>>
>>4753099
Damn we're gonna lose Medusa to the demon snake
>>
We could always offer a restriction to the fight that will trick her into giving us ten seconds.
>>
Does anyone have additions/fixes for the write in?

I kind of wanna get it sorted in case WhatIs has one more update in store for us today
>>
>>4752961
>Greed her as Vritra, greatest king of Asuras
>Ask her why she serves the arrogant godling who dared try to tame her.
>Tell her we can break the shackles that bind her, and hand her his heads on a plate
>Tell her we are one of the wealthiest men of this age, and can offer her no limit of the world's finest food and beautiful women, singing and dancing and all pleasures of this modern era.
>All she has to do is let us pass, and prove the strength of humanity against he who wishes for humanity's destruction.

Rewording the Nigger's proposal a bit to include the latest information
>>
>>4753105
actively fighting her headon is basically impossible, even if she holds back. 10 seconds is a long time against a servant

We're fighting against Orochi, she can watch, we're asking nothing of her other than to remove her collar
>>
This will probably end in a fight since she wants a human to beat her. My guess is Orochi told her about Shinji to get her on board with this.
>>
>>4753111
And of course I meant "Greet her". Not deleting for this.
>>
>>4752961
switching >>4753071
to
>>4753111
>>
>>4752961
>>4753111
Going with this.
She is fine with getting killed, she likes seeing humans suceed over evil, even if that evil is her. She's kinda like an actress playing the villain in a sense.
>>
where did all the voot and activity go from earlier?
>>
>>4752961
>>4753111
This
>>
>>4752961
>>4753111
Support
>>
>>4752961
>>4753111
support
>>
Hope this suceeds, so we can have the night to think over how to fix this mess.
>>
>>4753111
>>4752961
+1
>>
>>4752961
Yeah I’ll support >>4753111
>>
>>4753128
It's a really a problem that stems from us relying on teleportation so much when the chekovs bracelet that would have prevented this interfered with our main form of transportation through the story so far so it was buried from everyones memory.

I don't think anyone could have expect a command spell could be used to teleport an unwilling human though, but it's hind sight possible because this is Zolgen high on snakewine
>>
>>4753128
Damn that bracelet for being such an anti-combo with Medea. We would never take it off otherwise.

So, how do we deal with this mess? Obviously put on the bracelet as soon as we get Vritra on board, before Orochi realizes she didn't eat us. But how do we get out of here? How do we find everyone else? And how do we do it fast, before he gets all his elementals/angels/whatever.
>>
>>4753136
Use Truth to trace our connection to Chiyome and try and do exactly what Zolgen did to us to teleport us to her?
>>
>>4753135
>it's hind sight possible
Honestly, I never would have expected him to be able to teleport a Master.
>>
>>4753138
Never expected definitely, but justifiable with mental gymnastics after the fact is what I'm saying
>>
>>4753137
Can we really do that? We never studied grandpa's books on command seals, and I'm not sure Truth will be able to hack teleportation like that.
>>
>>4753143
Then I guess we have to ask Vrita where we are. if he wants good overnight autism he needs to give us options that go somewhere
>>
>>4753144
True.

Wait, Tamamo's stickers. They should still work. We can contact the others. Shame we didn't give Gil and Enkidu one.
>>
>>4753147
Enkidu cannot be CS'd anywhere or to do anything. He also has PD which means he'd be probably trying ti follow after someone.

We can't base a plan here on getting into a fight with Vrita that would be unwinnable expecting Enkidu to miraculously save us or something though
>>
So vote called?
>>
>>4753155
WhatIs is busy injecting caffeine into his eyes
>>
>>4753154
Err, no, that's not what I'm getting at. We need to regroup if Orochi teleported everyone around. And the first step to that is finding out where everyone is and what's going on over there.

Enkidu and Gil are ideally placed to unite the group without our input, actually. Maybe they're about to prove we were right to grind those Gil affection points?

>>4753156
Hopefuly enough to not pass out before the next update. This is insufficient basis for autism.
>>
>>4753160
QM said Gil has us on "potential friend" list right before we told him about Ishtar, I think after we told him about Ishtar and our plans to teach her some humility, he considers us a friend
>>
Also WhatIs if you want an in story reason to fix the autism around Vrita's release date you could imagine Shinji has that Snakecharmer skill by this point which seems to only help him against female serpent like beings and grants insight into their nature to allow him to open up a dialogue akin to Proof of Friendship. It has no bearing on Orochi then either due to the gender restriction, and is redundant against Quetz as we already have her info.
>>
>>4753135
It's the classic -tele conundrum found in Roguelikes.
Teleportation is an amazing utility we often make use of, so by default we don't wear our bracelet, which means that any enemy teleportation attempt will succeed unless we predict it beforehand.
Considering who we're fighting going forward, we should keep it on until we need to teleport rather than try to put it on right before an enemy tries to drag us.
>>
Scenarios:
Best case scenario: Orochi grabbed just us. This is just a small detour. Everything is fine.
Worse scenario: Orochi grabbed all Masters. Mordred is dueling Vortigern and Siegfried. Ciel may have escaped notice due to the shroud. I am very, very afraid for Sakura.
Worst Case scenario: Orochi grabbed everyone with a CS, Masters and Servants. Enkidu, Aoko, Lugh and SHIKI are the only ones left at the tunnel for sure, perhaps with Gilgamesh as well. Smart play for him is to put us all into separate airtight rooms with no way out, each of them dozens or hundreds of meters away from each other. Servants will be fine, reuniting will be a nightmare. I'm really, really afraid for Sakura.

Conclusion: I can see very little we can do to get back by ourselves. We're counting on Enkidu to find everyone and Gilgamesh to get them.

Did I mention I'm really, really afraid for Sakura? I'm dreading the possibility of a Deen F/SN hostage situation.
>>
>>4753179
I reckon you could go to the last 2k post thread, ctrl +f bracelet and get 0 results
>>
>>4753176
Screw it, we'll go with that. It's an unlisted personal skill that reveals the true name and personality of any woman with a snake attribute.
>>
>>4753178
Problem is, our ass has been saved many times by a timely teleport. The bracelet is inconvenient. We should have definitely put it on the moment we sent Medea away, but I see a policy of always having it on biting our ass in the future.
>>
>>4753184
how is your beanwater treating you?

do you think another update is possible?
>>
>>4753187
If it wasn't Gil's property we could have modified it with Truth with the concept of "Consent" or something
>>
Wait when is the cut off date for Shinji’s meta knowledge? December 2020? Then Shirou has Kusanagi no Tsurugi in stock
>>
>>4753184
Shinji really has a thing for snakes.
>>
>>4753183
Certainly, yeah. Probably the last 5 threads put together wouldn't have many more than 0 mentions. None of us predicted or planned for something similar. Why is it relevant though?
>>
>>4753187
I think facing danger that a teleport could have helped us avoid is a better choice than getting pulled into a killroom or gbj.
Getting teledragged like this can cripple our forces.
>>
>>4753192
He doesn't no, it's ment to be July 2020ish, right before Ibuki.

Nightingale Santa, Gogh, Himiko are all unknowns so far.
>>
>>4753194
It's just more we shouldn't worry about what can't be undone, just keep moving forward. We legitimately wouldn't have thought to use it for reasons stated
>>
>>4753188
Yes.
>>
Really, I had no idea Zolgen could use command seals on Masters like this.
>>
>>4753196
oops my bad, that was a rerun of nightingale.

Santa Karna and LB 5.5 is all unknown though including the true extent of Douman's abilities. and technically knowledge that none needs to love mankind to become a beast
>>
>>4753202
I was genuinely expecting him to hijack servants, had no idea he could do this with masters
>>
>>4753200
Yeah, no arguments here. Just trying to figure out how screwed are we, and maybe how to get unscrewed.

>>4753195
Telekillrooms are raid-only features so far though. Teleportation saving our ass is almost every fight but those.
>>
>>4753203
>technically knowledge that none needs to love mankind to become a beast
Wait what? No it's required for Beast to love humanity, that's why Douma fucked up and couldn't he a Beast, he didn't love humanity
>>
>>4753210
Shinji never played LB 5.5 which was when that info came out
>>
>>4753202
>>4753205
He didn't use a command spell on you, it's just that he created the original command spells, which are capable of the magic of teleportation, so it stands to reason that with his control over the Philosopher's Stone quantum hypercomputer, he can effectively use that magic at will.
>>
>>4753210
Probably the typo of none instead of one actually

>>4753213
That's also big brain and needs less mental gymnastics about CS mechanics
>>
>>4753208
This is a raid-only war now.
All the upcoming fighting is in Orochi and Manaka's respective fuckboxes.
>>
>>4753213
So he teleported everyone around? Fuck, it's even worse than my worst case scenario.
>>
>>4753218
Gil has the other bracelet on you'd think, he'll berate us for not using the treasure he lent us
>>
>>4753218
So its more likely just some, he would have targeted Shinji first for reasons relating to seethe and cope, then maybe flung away a few others before accidentally tripping on Gil
>>
>>4753217
We still have Monica, Bazett and Cu to deal with. Other surprises probably. And I'd like to think we wouldn't have forgotten the bracelet when storming the temple after our last debacle there.
>>
>>4753220
Bracelet says it blocks tp for a kilometer around. Gil doesn't have his on either.
>>
>>4753222
That's just cleanup, the point is we're going to get jerked around for the remainder of this war if we don't wear it, because both of our enemies can teleport us.
>>
>>4753223
>A Noble Phantasm given to you by Gilgamesh, when activated through the use of spacial interference magic on the wielder

>on the wielder
>>
>>4753223
Only activates when the magic is actually used on the wearer.
>>
>>4753223
That's only if we both wear it.
>>
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>>4753226

>>4753227
speedmogged again
>>
"Perhaps it would be pointless of me to attempt an escape, but... how about a dialogue instead? There's no way for me to flee from you, and this isn't a battle you can lose, right? So why not entertain yourself with some conversation instead? I for one think it a great honor to be able to speak with Vritra, the greatest king of the Asura." You use as much of your charisma in your voice as you are able, trying to use that as your weapon in this exchange. Had she wished it, Vritra could've killed you immediately, so it's clear that something other than hunger or bloodlust is driving her.

"Hoh, you're attempting to flatter me, human?" The blonde haired dragon stops in her tracks. "Well, if you want to speak with me for some time before I devour you, then I won't rush things along. It's impressive that you managed to discern my identity from just a glance, this current form of mine was unlike that which I took in life. But you saw through it anyway, I see why Orochi feared your power." The blonde woman carelessly reveals.

"I'm actually attempting to figure out just this one question." This has a chance of going either really well, or really really poorly. "That Japanese godling, did he really successfully tame you? Why on Earth would a dragon as great as you want to serve a worm like Orochi? Aren't you a greater dragon of disaster than he?" You attempt to appeal to the ego of the dragon.

"Ha! Control me? I follow his requests because that's what I feel like doing! If he were to turn those Command Spells of his against me, I'd kill him myself." Awfully confident, but unfortunately for Vritra, she doesn't actually seem to be anywhere near as powerful as Orochi is. It must have something to do with her manifestation as a Servant, her current body might be tremendously powerful, but as a Beast, even a false Beast, Orochi is quite a bit more powerful. So despite her bravado, Vritra is very much a slave to the Beast, even if she won't accept that she is one herself.

"Really? Then if you found a reason not to eat me right now... you wouldn't?" Still, with her ego being something you can very much use to your advantage, you decide to do so. Using a Command Spell right here would be suicide, Chiyome would be the only one of your Servants that could actually provide assistance against somebody like Vritra so deep into Orochi's lair, and for as much faith as you have in the ninja girl... you kind of doubt that any battle against somebody like Vritra will end up favorably for her.
>>
"It'll have to be an awfully good reason, after I spent so long chasing after that white robed magician and he disappeared into thin air when I finally got close, I'm in an especially bad mood." The woman crosses her arms as she takes another step closer to you. "Let's turn this into a game, shall we? If you can convince me before I finish walking over to you, then I'll let you go, but if not...!" The woman gives you a savage grin. "Well I think you know what." At her current distance, you only have about six paces before she closes the distance totally.

"Well them, first things first, I can use my magecraft to crush the shackles binding you to Yamata-no-Orochi. Ten seconds of contact is all I'll need to free you from the indignation of being forced to even have to refer to yourself as his 'Servant'. I can free you from having to be under the control of such an inferior god!"

"More tempting, but..." She takes a step forwards, leaving you with only five paces. "Not quite tempting enough, I know you can break my contract, Orochi knows too. But what would that leave me with? An overtaxed human magus who is a a thousand meters away from the rest of his allies? You may as well just be offering to kill me." Vritra shrugs. "What else have you got?"

"Well, are you aware that I'm one of the wealthiest men on the planet? I can offer you the finest food this world has, all the beautiful women singing and dancing you could wish for, and whatever pleasures from the modern era may take your fancy. Doesn't that sound more interesting than being made to chase a slimy incubus magus around a forest?"

Another step. "Well, I suppose that does sound nice, but a life of decadence alone can't satisfy me, without conflict, I'd be awfully bored. I want to see humans struggle to succeed and overcome the obstacles placed in front of them! While I would certainly enjoy such gifts, I wouldn't gain more than a surface level of satisfaction without something to entertain me beyond that!

"Then let me pass. Let me go and face off against the Beast who would wish for humanity's destruction. You wish to see the struggle of a human? Then allow me to show you just how powerful we can be. For I... I am the most powerful living human on this planet." That's only somewhat true, but in terms of what your magic is capable of doing, it's pretty much definitely true. "If you aid me here, then I promise you that you'll not just be able to see humanity struggle against an obstacle, but you'll be able to see the greatest of humanity struggle against the greatest obstacle!" You yell at the dragon woman. Who is smiling at you now. A wide and dangerous smile, but a smile nonetheless.
>>
Vritra stops in her tracks, before she starts to laugh. "Very good! Very good! You're much too amusing for me to just eat!" The mood of the room seems to change in that exact moment, as the woman on almost a switch decides that she doesn't want to eat you anymore. "Of course, you'd best decide what you want to do now. I'm not actively going to pursue you, but at any moment Orochi may try to force me into following along with those Command Spells of his. We came to an agreement that he wouldn't attempt to use them on me, but we also came to an agreement that I'd eat you without listening to a word you said to me." The dragon has a defiant smirk on her face. Looks like she was never planning to follow the orders of her Master in the first place. "Of course, It would be preferable for me to be without a Master than it would be for me to continue with the threat of those commands of his being wielded against me. So... I give you permission to break my contract."

>Just break Vritra's contract like she wants.
>Apply a concept to Vritra instead.
>>Loyalty
>>Obedience
>>Compassion
>>Love
>>Humanity
>Write-in...
>>
I wanna drop loyalty on her but then it would be the Nobu debate again. So I guess release her and ask would likely be the winning vote.
>>
>>4753251
>Ask
Are you absolutely certain that would be a good idea.
>>
>>4753251
We're on a timer and she barely accepted us, i think we need to figure it out ourselves
>>
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>>4752475
I also decided to clumsily do a color edit on this, so I guess you could call this his Stage 1
>>
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Good thing the "humans overcoming obstacles" angle worked.
Thanks Sakurautist for adding it.
>>
I do think we should try to make her a tad nicer. She already roots for humans to succeed, but its a cruel and selfish desire.
I believe compassion would be best. Love would end poorly, like giving her Stheno and Eryale's attraction effect.
>>
>>4753248
>>Just break Vritra's contract like she wants.
Felt tempted to go for compassion but I’d rather not buff her with a concept
>>
>>4753248
>Apply a concept to Vritra instead.
>Compassion
>>
>>4753248
>Apply a concept to Vritra instead.
>Compassion
Last post for the night I assume.
>>
>>4753260
Yeah, she would get mad if we add something that goes too agaisnt what she is.
>>
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>>4753256
I also made this from it, which is sort of based off of Shinji's fancy coat.
>>4753269
Yes.
>>
>>4753273
looks like Gil's coat
>>
>>4753275
He is our bestie now after all.
>>
>>4753248
Apply a concept to Vritra instead.
>Compassion
>>
>>4753248
>Just break Vritra's contract like she wants.
That's what she asked us to do. We're on a time limit. We're not asking for her help against Orochi, this is not a Nobu power up situation. And applying a concept just to make her nicer is brainwashing. We shouldn't start using our powers like that.

>>4753258
Thank you fren. And thanks to the anon who brought it up in the first place. The best write ins are always a combined effort.
>>
>>4753283
...that was me. Hence why I was thanking you.
>>
>>4753283
>And applying a concept just to make her nicer is brainwashing
Well technically, she can't actually feel true compassion. So it's more giving her something she didn't have, if you go for that.
>>
>>4753284
Well, then double thank you my fren.

Would have posted a happy Sakura if I wasn't so worried about her
>>
>>4753288
interesting
>>
>>4753248
>>Apply a concept to Vritra instead.
>>>Compassion
Now i feel like giving her something she lacks
>>
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>>4753289
It's fine.
Also, she was gonna eat us man. I don't really feel to bad about it.
Also, you know.>>4753288
I think compassion would really be actually a nice gesture in that case. Might also buff her, and that's always nice.
Have a Sakura.
>>
>>4753288
Looks like compassion is the right concept to apply if we do apply one. Not gonna argue against it if that's what other anons go for. But I don't see her situation as too different from Shuten's and so I won't change my vote.
>>
>>4753248
>>4753263
I feel like this gives her the chance to be pissed off at us but I guess people don't wish to use loaylty. Does she choose who she is loyal to based on her own notions or just default to Shinji?
>>
>>4753295
its extremely funny how he just got away with it and got everything that he wanted
>>
>>4753298
We should have done this to Shuten too. She's too self destructive and viotent and requires Shinji's time to reign her in. Even if we weren't in a relationship with her that would be a lot of time distracting her.
>>
>>4753305
Don't think he got away with it because Zouken is alive. I'm pretty sure as soon as he had the money to he ran as fast as he can.
>>
>>4753305
Only in UBW.
In the other 2 he dies. In Fate quite horribly too.
>>
>>4753312
anime implies he got Gil to kill wormpa
>>
>>4753295
And thank you again fren. I hope she's fine.

A kilometer away away from everyone is slight evidence that Orochi did not teleport everyone into separate killrooms, but it's stil very likely that he did. I hope Enkidu finds us soon.

God, what do we even do if we bust into the ritual chamber and Orochi has Sakura in his claws?

>>4753305
I find it sad actually. Sakura's future is depressing in all routes but HF.

>>4753307
Once you start brainwashing people just to make them more manageable, where do you stop? Is that really how we should start treating the people we care about?
>>
>>4753324
>God, what do we even do if we bust into the ritual chamber and Orochi has Sakura in his claws?

Also, I refuse to do it to Shuten, because she already clearly cares for us. But giving compassion to an entity that cannot feel it is diferent I feel.
>>
>>4753324
>God, what do we even do if we bust into the ritual chamber and Orochi has Sakura in his claws?
All Fiction

>Once you start brainwashing people just to make them more manageable, where do you stop? Is that really how we should start treating the people we care about?
Oni are capable of feeling, its just harder and Shuten clearly can restrain herself, Vritra just lacks it entirely
>>
>>4753324
We didn't have the possibility to kill her because people wanted a Waifu and to keep her out of the grail. Didn't think about the consequences so what other choice is there to mitigate all the negative factors.

Plus the people we are brainwashing has killed a lot of people in life. Releasing them in a modern world is a mistake.
>>
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>>4753322
He's a good friend.
>>
>>4753324
It's not making her feel or think anything, it's adding a functionality she doesn't have.
Shuten is clearly capable of compassion, as shown by her relationship with us and Ibrakki, but Vitrya is an asura whose care for others cannot extend beyond amusement and hedonism.
The whole thing is actually pretty sad because despite liking humanity and wanting to see it succeed, she's incapable of forming meaningful relationships with humans due to her nature as an asura.
>>
>>4753334
Yeah, I'm not arguing against doing it for Vritra. I'm personally against, but I can see why it would be considered acceptable here.

It is absolutely unacceptable for Shuten, and I'll argue against it whenever it comes up as an idea.

I hope things are not as bad as they look. I'll even offer a prayer. But remember God: happiness for everyone or you get it.

>>4753322
Need to rewatch, did not get that implication at all and it would make that ending significantly brighter.

>>4753343
Shuten has been nothing but a good girl since we got her. Didn't even hold a grudge for us leaving her to Manaka. She's been extremely useful. You can't possibly think it was a mistake to recruit her.

Cu killed a lot of people in his life. So did Nobu and Iskandar. So did Mordred. Medea killed her own children. Atalante killed everyone she beat in a race.Do you want to brainwash them too?

>>4753362
You are actually getting me close to changing my vote. Will sleep on it.
>>
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>>4753366
>did not get that implication at all and it would make that ending significantly brighter.
I think it comes from the scene where Gilgamesh smooshes a single worm in the basement.
Probably doesn't mean anything, but you could theoretically draw from there that Zouken disgusted him enough that he busted out a Noble Phantasm that would kill him.
>>
>>4753366
All had circumstances to their killings. Most of Shutens comes to that tastes good or for entertainment. It's why she's an evil of Japan if I remember the title correctly.

Most of your examples came from outside sources meddling or duty. Shuten is closer to Jack the Ripper then she is to a knight so the examples given is false equivalence.
>>
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>>4753273
>>4753275
>>
>>4753387
You can't just mind control people for not conforming to moral standards that didn't exist in the time they lived in, or those that belong to entirely different species.
Medea killed an entire wedding just to flex on Jason for being a dick, should we go brainwash her too?
>>
>>4753129
>>4752961
Attempt to talk to Vrita and use diplomacy to get her on side. (Say what?) u want sum fuk?
>>
>>4753406
Columbus did nothing wrong and was simply too based for this world.
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>>4753248
Just break Vritra's contract like she wants.
>>
Vrita also gets to fulfil her purpose of existence to be an obstacle to a god. Orochi picked a terrible servant to summon honestly. Just because they're evil snakes doesn't mean they have good affinity for one another in the slightest. Vrita even detests alcohol.

She's a being of consumption, obstruction and stagnation while Orochi is a being of consumption and destruction.
>>
>>4753412
then why was he in agartha
>>
>>4753248
>>Just break Vritra's contract like she wants.
>>Ask her if she wants to feel compassion as a human would and offer to apply the concept of Compassion to her.
No harm in asking.
>>
>>4753421
collecting infinitely proliferating, strong bodied female slaves of course
>>
>>4753252
>>4753423
>>
>>4753307
Shuten already has compassion.
In the gyaru's case we are giving her something she does not have, not changing what she has.
its a lot less fucked up.
>>4753373
I like to think he did kill zouken in UBW, its not like it would be hard for him.
>>4753423
I guess i will think about changing to this, but not sure how her would react to us asking her that.
What if she says no?
>>
>>4753248
>>Apply a concept to Vritra instead.
>>>Compassion
>>
>Vritra was a demon created by artisan god Tvashta to avenge the killing of his son by Indra, known as Triśiras or Viśvarūpa. Vritra won the battle and swallowed Indra, but the other gods forced him to vomit Indra out. The battle continued and Indra was eventually forced to flee. Vishnu and the rishis (sages) brokered a truce, with Indra swearing that he would not attack Vritra with anything made of metal, wood or stone, nor anything that was dry or wet, or during the day or the night. Indra used the foam (which Vishnu had entered to ensure victory) from the waves of the ocean to kill him at twilight.

>Srimad Bhagavatam recognizes Vritra as a bhakta (devotee) of Vishnu[9] who was slain only due to his failure to live piously and without aggression.

Piety? Maybe Charity? It doesn't actively conflict with her core personality or concept as a being an creature of obstruction so it leaves her personality undamaged.
>>
>>4753443
>What if she says no?
She laughs at our smol nip penor and kills us instantly.
>>
>>4753406
Madea was under the control of a god. Like I said a lot of these have circumstances a lot more then Shuten wanting entertainment or to eat. Hell she got her own race exterminated because she was bored. That is more then moral standards that's being both self destructive and being a danger.

This also isn't about morality, this is about the danger she possess if Shinji isnt constantly watching her.

Is Shinji any different from the standard Magus if he's keeping a person that at any time could just decide to kill civilians just because she's cute? She didn't care about turning people into Oni, she didn't care about the people she ate.
>>
>SB 6.9.11: After Visvarupa was killed, his father, Tvashta, performed ritualistic ceremonies to kill Indra. He offered oblations in the sacrificial fire, saying, "O enemy of Indra, flourish to kill your enemy without delay."

>SB 6.9.12: Thereafter, from the southern side of the sacrificial fire known as Anvaharya came a fearful personality who looked like the destroyer of the entire creation at the end of the millennium.

>SB 6.9.13-17: Like arrows released in the four directions, the demon's body grew, day after day. Tall and blackish, he appeared like a burnt hill and was as lustrous as a bright array of clouds in the evening. The hair on the demon's body and his beard and moustache were the colour of melted copper, and his eyes were piercing like the midday sun. He appeared unconquerable as if holding the three worlds on the points of his blazing trident. Dancing and shouting with a loud voice, he made the entire surface of the earth tremble as if from an earthquake. As he yawned, again and again, he seemed to be trying to swallow the whole sky with his mouth, which was as deep as a cave. He seemed to be licking up all the stars in the sky with his tongue and eating the entire universe with his long, sharp teeth. Seeing this gigantic demon, everyone, in great fear, ran here and there in all directions.

>SB 6.9.18: That very fearful demon, who was actually the son of Tvashta, covered all the planetary systems by dint of austerity. Therefore, he was named Vritra, or one who covers everything.[11]

Essentially, Indra killed a man's son, and so he created Vrita to take revenge on him. Vrita never actually did anything wrong, they were born of revenge from a grieving father over his son. As usual, Gods are cunts and we can sympathise with her for that.
>>
What about Benevolence?

Compassion can make her care, Empathy can be a curse but Benevolence plays into her onee-san attributes and brings them more to the forefront while pushing her destructive tendencies to the back of her mind. Doesn't conflict with her being an obstacle of gods, just pushes her away from violence and towards being someone who would actually fit into the world we're building without mind raping away her original personality. It also ties into >>4753457 and completes her being with a thing she was lacking which caused her to fall to Indra.
>>
>>4753460
I'm not talking about the mind control Aphrodite used on her, I'm talking about the mass killing she performed of her own volition in recompense for Jason using her and tossing her aside.
As for Shuten, she's agreed not to consume humans and has abided by that agreement.
I'm not going to have her brainwashed because she has something objectionable in her nature.
What I'd have to ask you is, how would we be any different from a typical Magus if we had so little respect for our allies that we would usurp control of their mental faculties to force them to adopt our values?
We took it upon ourselves to be a leader, so it's our responsibility to curtail self-destructive behavior through discipline and guidance, not by removing inherent drives of the people we're responsible for.
>>
>>4753474
>Daemons are benevolent or benign nature spirits, beings of the same nature as both mortals and deities, similar to ghosts, chthonic heroes, spirit guides, forces of nature, or the deities themselves (see Plato's Symposium). According to Hesiod's myth, "great and powerful figures were to be honoured after death as a daimon…"

From the Greek root of what demons are, they are by default Benevolent, just to show I'm not trying to corrupt her with this option.

It's part of her nature but something sorely suppressed as a being made into a tool of vengeance
>>
>>4753478
Our responsibility as a human isn't to resurrect an ancient evil just because it's cute. She promised to stop eating humans as long as she's essentially handled by Shinji, meaning kept entertained. If Manka wasn't around killing her would have been the best choice. Ciel has what normal humans would consider as a resonable reaction.

Do you think Shinji will have the time to babysit her after the war? It makes me wonder if Jack the Ripper was summoned would the vote be to adopt her?

If Alan was a woman would we destroy the world for him? I think it was mentioned that in another quest ran by the same QM this was the rationale for something similar.
>>
>>4753516
Manaka is a cute girl and we don't let her run rampant.
Appealing to what normal people would do or think in this situation is retarded.
I'm beginning to think you're just stupid or are willfully acting confused to keep an argument going, because you are acting as if Shinji will let his allies be monstrous out of some kind of infatuation for them, which could not be farther from the truth.
Shinji knows the potential for people to give into their darker natures more than anyone, and endeavors to create a world where all of the people he cares about embrace the best version of themselves.
>>
Interesting. My knowledge of Indian mythology is rusty but should we try and give her some of higher mythological concepts from her birthplace?
>>
>>4753580
Don't make the Asura king directly stronger, just more complete as a being which, going by the mythology is also a buff. Doing so with a personality trait that makes her more amicable long term also helps.

>>4753480
>>4753474
>>
>The religion of Zoroastrianism is closest to Vedic religion to varying degrees. Some historians believe that Zoroastrianism, along with similar philosophical revolutions in South Asia were interconnected strings of reformation against a common Indo-Aryan thread. Many traits of Zoroastrianism can be traced back to the culture and beliefs of the prehistorical Indo-Iranian period, that is, to the time before the migrations that led to the Indo-Aryans and Iranics becoming distinct peoples. Zoroastrianism consequently shares elements with the historical Vedic religion that also has its origins in that era. Some examples include cognates between the Avestan word Ahura ("Ahura Mazda") and the Vedic Sanskrit word Asura ("demon; evil demigod"); as well as Daeva ("demon") and Deva ("god") and they both descend from a common Proto-Indo-Iranian religion.
Just remembered difference that asuras have in Zoroastrianism and I was not wrong.
I think it should be possible to make her Lancer of Truth.
>>
>>4753248
Asking takes time we don’t have and we probably shouldn’t impose concept she’d consider or could interpret as betrayal.

I’m thinking something that would temper her demonic nature without outright clashing with her stated value could be
>prudence

Which should rein her in from fucking shit up while also allowing her to not get fucked.
>>
>>4753474
Sounds good. Supporting.
>>
>>4753584
Snakegirl Truth harem

Berseker Kiyo of Truth with her hate of lies turned up to 100. Removes falsehoods with flames of Truth
>>
>>4753584
Also I'm interested now
>>
>>4753585
It doesn't so matter if she gets fucked she's a force of nature and part of the cycles of existence. She keeps coming back whether you want it or not.

Similar to Liz's Battle Continuation being derived from her refusal to just fuck off already
>>
>>4753590
>>4753593
Zoroastrianism flips normal Indian classification upside down.
Devas become Daeva. From divine beings to false gods of chaos and disorder.
While Asura becomes word for Ahura and they Mazda to it. Mazda is Wisdom. Ahura Mazda is Lord of Wisdom but also
>In Zoroastrianism, Asha (truth, cosmic order), the life force that originates from Ahura Mazda
He represents struggle of Truth (As Lord of Truth and Widsom) against evil and vice. Latter two are related to daevas and Angra Mainyu.
>The aka mainyu epithet recurs in Yasna 32.5, when the principle is identified with the daevas that deceive humankind and themselves. While in later Zoroastrianism, the daevas are demons, this is not yet evident in the Gathas: Zoroaster stated that the daevas are "wrong gods" or "false gods" that are to be rejected, but they are not yet demons. Some have also proposed a connection between Angra Mainyu and the sage Angiras of the Rigveda. If this is true, it could be understood as evidence for a religious schism between the deva-worshiping Vedic Indo-Aryans and early Zoroastrians.

I am thinking it should be Truth/Wisdom or even Asha.
>>
>>4753597
That’s not really helpful. Exercising prudence in fighting will help her not get hit so she doesn’t have to come back. More importantly though it would help her pick her fights in a way she won’t regret - in this case ironically it should support her decision to face Orochi at all costs given his goals.
And it should be more likely to interpret as a power up rather than means of making her more manageable she might take exception to.
>>
>>4753606
The inversion fits her side of the story regarding Indra too. It may be one of his crowning achievements but it's also one of his greatest shames in how he deceived her.

Parallels to Susanoo and Orochi off due to Chaoskampf, trickery used but in this case Vrita wasn't a retard, Indra was just a really sneaky cunt.

>Vishnu and the rishis (sages) brokered a truce, with Indra swearing that he would not attack Vritra with anything made of metal, wood or stone, nor anything that was dry or wet, or during the day or the night. Indra used the foam (which Vishnu had entered to ensure victory) from the waves of the ocean to kill him at twilight.

The fight also lasted 360 days so it's a better showing than octoretard putting his heads under 8 sealing gates to drink cursed booze that was obviously a trap.
>>
>>4753613
Fair, also helps when she'll be operating without a master.
>>
>>4753618
>All physical creation (getig) was thus determined to run according to a master plan—inherent to Ahura Mazda—and violations of the order (druj) were violations against creation, and thus violations against Ahura Mazda. This concept of asha versus the druj should not be confused with Western and especially Abrahamic notions of good versus evil, for although both forms of opposition express moral conflict, the asha versus druj concept is more systemic and less personal, representing, for instance, chaos (that opposes order); or "uncreation", evident as natural decay (that opposes creation); or more simply "the lie" (that opposes truth and goodness). Moreover, in the role as the one uncreated creator of all, Ahura Mazda is not the creator of druj, which is "nothing", anti-creation, and thus (likewise) uncreated and developed as the antithesis of existence through choice.
And
>Zoroastrianism recognizes various classes of spiritual beings besides the Supreme Being (Ahura Mazda): The Amesha Spentas, Yazatas, and Fravashis.
>The word is also the proper name of the divinity Asha, the Amesha Spenta that is the hypostasis or "genius" of "Truth" or "Righteousness". In the Younger Avesta, this figure is more commonly referred to as Asha Vahishta (Aṣ̌a Vahišta, Arta Vahišta), "Best Truth". The Middle Persian descendant is Ashawahist or Ardwahisht; New Persian Ardibehesht or Ordibehesht. In the Gathas— the oldest texts of Zoroastrianism, thought to have been composed by Zoroaster —it is seldom possible to distinguish between moral principle and the divinity. Later texts consistently use the 'Best' epithet when speaking of the Amesha Spenta, only once in the Gathas is 'best' an adjective of aṣ̌a/arta.
Just look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amesha_Spenta
Most notable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haurvatat this one.
>>
>>4753620
Are you saying truth or wisdom would flip her from demon to goddess and from evil to good?

That sounds like a drastic personality adjustment but at the same time could be seen as just a flip between valid outlooks that are natural to her...

There’s possible caveat of gaining divinity that would make her useless for this fight but for her benefit it would probably be well worth it.
>>
>>4753620
My critiques are

Is this information too much if a reach for Shinji to comprehend, risking breaking character?

Do we want to bind her to such a closely related concept to ourselves when we can't afford the man- A rank dragonkind she'll be fine

She might also become a True Existence and akasha will pick up the bill.

Asha, if it's not breaking character is insane, the risk is her personality after the fact, unless we assume the positive nature of this Truth helps with that, being rebranded as a demon of destruction to the righteous Asura deceived by the evil Devas who slew her Father's son and therefore her brother.

>>4753248
>Break the contract and apply the concept of Asha

WhatIs veto this if it's breaking character because it's going to break something
>>
>>4753632
The caveat is she may have to leave to avoid feeding Orochi something absurd if he eats her as this removes the demonic nature he was avoiding eating her for
>>
>>4753630
>>4753632
>>4753632
Orochi is now False Beast, violation of natural order. As well as Chaos and Lie as per Chaoskampf.
Ahura (Asura) Mazda is antithesis of chaos and smiter of lies and falsehoods of reality. Vritra having some fire related things also play in it as Fire is holy in Zoroastrianism.
So Vritra (Male) as demon of drought and stealer of water mirrors in Haurvatat (Female) as protector and gather of water, part of bigger whole Ahura Mazda. FGO itself wonders about her female form.
>Eternal Immortal Demon (EX Rank): Even if she loses to Indra, Vritra will be revived again over time and will start a struggle with God again. A skill that shows immortality and repetition of eternity, which can be likened to a natural phenomenon. The conflict between "Vritra, which blocks water (brings drought or traps it in clouds and mountains)" and "Indra, which releases it in a thunderstorm," is not a one-time event, but has been repeated for a long time. Yes, and it will last forever in the future. It is also the very primitive belief in nature and God. Vritra reigns as an immortal demon with exactly the same strength that people put awe in nature into God.
And her Bond 10 gift represents eternal cosmis struggle of the same caliber.
>Avestan angra mainyu "seems to have been an original conception of Zoroaster's." In the Gathas, which are the oldest texts of Zoroastrianism and are attributed to Zoroaster, angra mainyu is not yet a proper name. In the one instance in these hymns where the two words appear together, the concept spoken of is that of a mainyu ("mind", "spirit" or otherwise an abstract energy etc.)[b] that is angra ("destructive", "chaotic", "disorderly", "inhibitive", "malign" etc, of which a manifestation can be anger). In this single instance – in Yasna 45.2 – the "more bounteous of the spirits twain" declares angra mainyu to be its "absolute antithesis".
In perspective her agreeing to work with us against Orochi reflects idea behind struggle of humanity against chaos, lies and so on in Zoroastrianism. And her interests in wealth is also part of that reflection as Haurvatat also takes great interests in prosperity.
>Vritra is said to be an evil dragon as well as an asura (demon), and is also known as Asurandra (king of Asura).
Reflects in
>In the hierarchy of yazatas, Haurvatat has as her assistants or cooperators (hamkars) three lesser yazatas: Vata-Vayu of the wind and atmosphere, Manthra Spenta of "bountiful spells" and the Fravashis, the hordes of guardian spirits.
And we do need to remember that our Truth at least partially is in the hands of God and Zoroastrianism was proto-Abrahamic religion and sometimes consider related to it as a proper progenitor.
Amesha Spenta as entities are part of greater whole and cannot be subdued in anyway since their true nature is cosmic Truth and eternal struggle for it.
>>
>>4753248
>>4753632
+1
I wouldn't call it out of character, since the Battle of Okehazama and knowledge of Welsh was also something I learned newly, but Shinji just "knew".

Nasu Vritra is also the representation of winter as a part of Nature, representing hardship that arrives periodicallly, when speaking of how Laws of Physics assimilated her.
>>
>>4753653
Send it, if critique comes we address it and then revote and the financially uncompensated clean up the sorting and counting mess
>>
>>4753660
Shinji is an actual genius in canon actually. Eastern concepts are closer to home and more likely to have popped up in life than Obeithion of all things
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>>4753666
I think that was Isekai side knowledge. The way Shinji worded it was "its hope in Welsh, if my inexplicable knowledge is right" or somethiing to that effect.

Otherwise you can say Shinji is a genius with fuckloads of years to prepare and knows that the Grail is incubating Zoro Evil God from rando villager. Be prepared in case it works for some reason.
>>
>>4753668
Tbh studying up on concepts in Zoroastrianism helps him deal with manjew and this took 3 autists 10mins on Wikipedia for a qst thread vs a guy trying to prevent a calamity with years to prepare. Nobus history makes sense as he's Japanese and that's probably a class from year 7 or something.
>>
>>4753248

Switching from >>4753585 to

>>4753632 Asha

After all we did initially assume Angra Maniyu would be the main problem so...
>>
>In the 19th century, Haug pioneered the idea that the term Asura is linguistically related to the Ahuras of Indo-Iranian people and pre-Zoroastrianism era. In both religions, Ahura of pre-Zoroastrianism (Asura of Indian religions), Vouruna (Varuna) and Daeva (Deva) are found, but their roles are on opposite sides. That is, Ahura evolves to represent the good in pre-Zoroastrianism, while Asura evolves to represent the bad in Vedic religion, while Daeva evolves to represent the bad in pre-Zoroastrianism, while Deva evolves to represent the good in Vedic religion. This contrasting roles have led some scholars to deduce that there may have been wars in proto-Indo-European communities, and their gods and demons evolved to reflect their differences. This idea was thoroughly researched and reviewed by Peter von Bradke in 1885.
And this detail is another good part to that idea. While we can`t 100% say about evolution of religion in our world due to region being destroyes many times over.
Our historical conflict plays interesting perspective about Stealer of Water and Protector of Water from two group of people who constantly fought each other over the centuries. And both their groups of divinities and demons are viewed as opposing forces in each other religion and fuel their struggle as they are antithesis to each other.
>>4753248
>Break the contract and apply the concept of Asha
Truth/Wisdom here we go.
>>4753668
>>4753686
We also have pretty good understanding of Lovecraftian lore and would have been able to make symbol of Necronomicon from memory.
>>
>>4753690
Also, since the mission of magecraft in general and according to Touko is the "explication of history", it would make sense thhat we crammed assloads of religious and mythological systems. Its the basis of figuring out the other dude's Mystery, and the stated objective of the Association post AoG, "preservation of the corpus of magecraft as academia" when they thought Ether was perma fucked before False Ether Aspect came in, and it never got changed.
>>
>>4753690
If we're doing this as well, in future when we find servants twisted by modern interpretations of their myth should we correct them to True history? Vlad for example?

Most people with Innocent Monster?
>>
>>4753712
Vlad would be happy as fuck if we deleted his Innocent Monster/Vampirism somehow. I'd say yeah in general.
Also people like Liz who really dont want to be their older selves? Is that too much modding or not?

Also maybe not ALL true history, given the Epic of Gilgamesh shitting on Ishtar and all is speculated to be another city-states propaganda rewrite nowadays sometimes.

Similar to how Athens shit survived for Greek myth and Ares always gets shit on and is a retard fightmonkey and Aphro's War aspects are edited out, but Pallas Athena and co are always uber OP and good and benevolent please believe us.

Tho what would Gil do if we "fix" Ishtar into not shitty version?
>>
>>4753726
To explain, this would mean editing into a True Version based on IRL myth/higher-order human understanding. Otherwise I don't know if Nasu even had Asha, as Angra isnt talking.
>>
>>4753708
>>4753712
>>4753726
>>4753734
I think we have a bit of understanding how it works.
Saber Fairy was Saber Alter, a toy without hope. Giving her something she lacked changed her to Fairy Queen. Being that radiates and represents hope.
Chiyome had her curse written within her very nature. But instead we replaced it with purification. Another aspect she had (as a shrine maiden) but was missing from her as cursing snake was dominant.
Sakura, nullification, imaginary numbers, mud and Tiamat are also obvious like that.
I think as long it is something character has in history and concept works with it well we are fine. Or if it bad thing we are replacing with something good. In Vlad`s case we could replace vampire myth with one where he is blessed warrior of God and protector of land? This would twist Apocrypha so hard. Get fucked Darnic.
>>
>>4753726
liz can eat a bag of dicks, carmilla is SEX and I WILL have her if she shows up
>>
>>4753726
>>4753738
>liz can eat a bag of dicks
I am sure some anon would mean it in innuedo sense.
Technically Elizabeth Báthory can also be victim of historical misrepresentation for the same reason as Vlad.
>Nagy argued that the proceedings against Báthory were largely politically motivated, possibly due to her extensive wealth and ownership of large areas of land in Hungary, escalating after the death of her husband. The theory is consistent with Hungarian history at that time, which included religious and political conflicts, especially relating to the wars with the Ottoman Empire, the spread of Protestantism and the extension of Habsburg power over Hungary.
She was also holding big part of Habsburg`s debt at that time.
But I also prefer how Carmilla looks.
>>
>>4753632
So, Asha is essentially Truth with some other things?
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>>4753747
Carmilla is the big sex
>>
>>4753749
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asha
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>>4753749
Ehhh...that's like saying Dharma is just order or law imo. I wouldn't necessarily say so.

Its also the reason translating stuff like En or Nidana or Karma is also hard. These packed as fuck concepts.

Or even something like Numen from roman religion/myth or mana(invested power, thats not just magic) from Polynesian.
>>
>>4753248
>>4753632
+1
Get fucked Wormpa
>>
And a detail WhatIs mentioned once: Orochi can`t eat Truth.
Has Chiyome successfully attacked us Medea and Tamamo would have been the ones to be sucked dry of power while we would have shrugged it off eventually.
>>
>>4753752
>>4753756
Interesting.
I wonder what would happen if we applied something like Mu to someone, would they just cease to be or what.
>>
>>4753788
See Musashi being deleted I imagine.

Now if it was something like Mushin, No-mind...
>>
>>4753769
This make her better bait than Meaty
>>
>>4753801
What about bodhi, can we fucking make buddhas?
>>
>>4753788
>>4753801
Well, Roa was deleted from reality and Chiyome would have merged non-existence with her Presence Concealment.
>>4753805
And her skill makes her always return to fight more.
>>
>>4753248
Switching >>4753283 to >>4753632
I have been convinced we should help Vritra gain what she lacks. I don't see why WhatIs would veto this, I think it's the kind of autism he enjoys. And studying zoroastrianism for an afternoon is entirely in character for Shinji. Might be tough for him to figure out how it will affect her though.
>>
>>4753801
Isnt mushin more of what we know today as flow?
>>
Oh and I don't think it will fundamentally alter her personality. Just make her more... her, with no missing pieces.
>>
>>4753816
Yeah, the wikipedia article on asha was only created in 2006 if i'm reading this right.
>>
>>4753807
I mean.....I guess? Saver from Extra exists. Referred to as a Deva caable of administering something on the level of a Solar System. Solar Systtem is important in nasu cosmology for some reason, as timeline proliferation could end with the collapse of the Solar System if unchecked, due to information density/resource usage iirc.

See Trichiliocosm, as around that many Solar Systems/stars can be simulated probably by the Human Order as of present day. Someone calced it I seem to remember, based on Extella.
Of the carrying capacity of the Human Order per given timeline the following is given.

"That is to say, the ceaseless proliferation of Adjacent Realities may eventually exceed the capacity of the Dimension.

Adjacent Realities are as a necessary existence, but they cannot be let to [enter into] excess.

It's a very rough estimation, but should the Earth persist at its present level of civilization for another century, it's likely that the Solar System will rupture

However, the reality is that we live and multiply.
The Solar System hasn't yet dissolved, ( lit. "ease / loosen / relax / alleviate") per the volume of data [generated], and it's likely that it could as of the present manner persist for another hundred million years. "

That is to say, a Buddha, Bodhisattva or Deva should be of this level and Suzuka's Trichiliocosm shoupd calculate this much info.
>>
>>4753829
I mean, i wonder if shoving the concept into someone would be enough or they wouldnt be able to comprehend it and would fail to reach it.
>>
>>4753818
Flow is identified with mushin, but philosophicqlly mushin is more like being without ego as such that you perfectly move with nature/tao iirc. Where Tao is unnamable but also maybe the entirety or flow of existence/nonexistence etc.

See Crowley's Love and True Will for western equivalent. Spontaneity and assured success borne from being without obstruction of true nature iirc.

Some schools of thought will differ on this interpretation iirc.

So yes, but no but yes.
>>
>>4753845
I see.
>>
>>4753847
In Nasu it sounds like it could lead to Origin Awakening desu.
>>
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I wonder if WhatIs will give us a qrd on what would have happened if instead of opening a dialogue first thing we put on Ares' sash as a bandana, maximum reinforcement and an aria and opened with Snake Style.

She does like watching humans struggle.

Got the same result of her listening I guess.
>>
>The righteous can put demons to flight by invoking the name of Haurvatat (Yasht 4.2). In Yasht 4.4, Haurvatat is implored to give mankind the power to withstand the seductive attacks of the Pairikas, the devilish sprites of Angra Mainyu.
>In Persian lore and Zoroastrianism, a class of daeva or demon of beautiful seductresses who have the power to bewitch in malevolent ways. The Pairikas exert their baleful influences on the elements, cattle, and all vegetation. Ahriman uses them to bewitch the stars in order to prevent rain and cause bad harvests, famine, and sterility.
Just another reversal.
All remember how Orochi told us he will incorporate Barbatos into himself?
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>>4753867
>Barbatos is an Earl and Duke of Hell, ruling thirty legions of demons and has four kings as his companions to command his legions. He gives the understanding of the voices of the animals, says past and future, conciliates friends and rulers, and he can lead men to hidden treasures that have been hidden by the enchantment of magicians. His name seems to derive from Latin "barbatus", bearded, old man, philosopher.

In the time temple he's the one you bully for free hearts and dust with Kintoki or a Caster and always dies first. his position is also the head of the:

>Control Tower
>These Demon Gods assist with integration and maintain the terminals. Essentially, they are in charge of the organization and pass around orders, commands, and information.

His FGO skill names are useless and generc, not worth listing.

He's probably being used to help the supercomputer crystal and maybe maintain servants, but clearly they're not being micromanaged very much at all
>>
>>4753867
Oddly though WhatIs said he didn't eat Vrita due to her Demonic nature despite her Divinity.

It's out of character metagamey but his plan likely can't be tainted by that aspect.
>>
It’s pretty funny, we already have dragon mother in Tiamat, dragon daughter in Alítheia... and if this works we’re gonna have a dragon sister, too.

Another smile to protect.
>>
>>4753871
Barbatos is jobbing then. Iirc his function was to make sure no Demon Pillar goes rogue, which fits into his conciliates friends and rulers.
A lot of Orochi's dudes are going rogue.
>>
>>4753873
>She might either be imitating Rambha, because of the anecdote where she was sent to him and he became a prisoner of her beauty and died according to Indra's scheme, or perhaps she became a beautiful woman to show off her determination to "never fall for Indra's cowardly tricks again".

>Fundamentally, Vritra is an existence that transcends gender, and since their true nature won't change regardless of their gender, they merely possess a disposition as a female that would match with their current form as the Servant Vritra.

She's going to make a lot of girls call her mummy. Stronk lesbo
>>
>>4753632
Switching to this
>>
>>4753875
He might be sealed, Kiara turned Zefar into her masturbation finger and drowned him in COOM.

He might not want the demon influence. Maybe he's using him as a Catalyst? Maybe he shoved him in Para to help his calculation and help him wrangle the 4 summons?
>>
>>4753875
But almost every demon pillar is a fucking jobber though
>>
>>4753877
Okay, I had a stupid thought but I feel like I gotta ask.

Goetia's autism is ending death and making humans eternal, right? Does he just disregard Age of Will shit? He has good ass clairvoyance, no?
>>
>>4753881
He's piloting Solomon's dead husk so he has Solomon's Clairvoyance at EX
>>
>>4753883
Then what is his problem? Age of Will humans have "volition without a corpus" which is 3rd Magic's "higher-dimensional being" shit that is worded the same as being a Divine Spirit, and those view the past present and future as the same kinda thing and can exist in mutually contradictory information states ala Divine Spirit Iskander in Case Files.

So if he just helped humans into Age of Will or just did nothing they'd eventually retroactively become eternal, no?

Is his autism just too strong to think things through?
>>
>>4753886
>invented by the founder of (human) magecraft, Solomon.[2] It was originally created as a magical ritual to look after mankind after Solomon's death, the Human Order Correction Ritual (人理補正式, Jinri Hosei-shiki?). Said system grieved and raged against the relationship between King Solomon and humans, becoming a curse that takes action to conquer “the imperfectness of humans” that King Solomon continued to ignore. It eventually changed into the Human Order Incineration Ritual (人理焼却式, Jinri Shōkyaku-shiki?). A magecraft with its own will that was devised in order to attain true wisdom, and is now attempting to reach the origin while making use of the entire human history.

>He holds great animosity towards Solomon, describing him as the greatest fool of mankind and an incompetent king. Much of Beast I's hatred for him stems from both Solomon's supposed indifference to the suffering of mankind, and for creating him to watch over humanity, a function he considers pointless due to believing that humans can only suffer until their deaths.[5] Despite knowing of their helplessness, their ugliness, Solomon accepted humans without correcting them. But the demons could not accept this, and eventually concluded that there is no value to humans and the future, and feared the result called extinction. Their own extinction was a matter of course, but they felt repugnance over the conclusion of “everything disappearing”.

At first he's an autistic retard.

Then he was retconned into trying to save humanity from ayys

>Goetia (as "Solomon") narrates the PV for Cosmos In The Lostbelt, revealing that he had instigated the Human Order Incineration as a way to stop the Alien God from enacting the Human Order Revision. While he mocks Chaldea for inadvertently causing the ruin that he sought to avert, he nevertheless encourages them to keep fighting for their future.
>>
His original plan wasn't too different from Rhongobongo's 500 human sized arc she was building in Camelot.

He basically intended to go back 4.6billion years ago, eat the planet's lifeforce right as Genesis occurred, and rebuild a new, single, immortal "humanity" that could never suffer and die like he pitied and hated humans for doing so.
>>
>>4753873
Medusa is a snek girl too.

Any other sneks in nasu? Merlin has some unknown servants.
>>
>INDRA, the name of a demon (daēwa) in the Avesta. In sharp contrast to the Indra of the Ṛgveda [RV], the most celebrated god (devá) of the Vedic pantheon, whose defeat of the Snake of cosmic obstruction, Vṛtra, is an act of creation, the Indra of the Avesta is a relatively insignificant daēwa, mentioned only twice in conjunction with other demons, most significantly Saurwa (Ved. Śarva) and Nåŋhaiθya (Mitanni d.mešna-ša—at-ti-i̯a, Ved. Nāsatyā dual).
>Indra is mentioned only twice in the Avesta. At Vd. 10.9, following instructions on Gathic verses to be recited to combat the Nasu Druj (demon of putrefaction), one should say “I hostilely engage Indra (… Saurwa, … Nåŋhaiθya).” At Vd. 19.43 Indra stands second in a list of demons after Aŋra Mainyu, perhaps an indication of his importance in the demonic hierarchy, and this place immediately after Akōman, rather than Ahriman, is repeated in the Pahlavi Books (Bundahišn [TD2] = Gr.Bd., p. 15.9). According to Gr.Bd., p. 227.4, at the ristāxēz Ohrmazd will seize Ahriman, Wahuman Akōman, and Urdwahišt Indar (spelled in Pahl. ʾndl, also yndl). Again, in a long enumeration of the specific forms of mischief perpetrated by the dēws, Gr.Bd., p. 182.10-13 places Indar after Gannāg Mēnōg (= Ahriman) and Akōman. At Dēnkard, p. 836.9 ff., Indar appears third in the trio of Akō-man’s seed together with Waran (Concupiscence) and Āz (Lust). One wonders whether it is accidental or whether there is a real connection with the debauched Indra of Indian myth. In any case, Indar’s chief role is that of seducer who perverts men’s minds, leading them to abandon proper worship and practices, such as wearing the šabīg and kustīg.
Hahaha.
>>4753873
And Obeithion also part dragon.
And we were close to being possessed by Medusa.
>>
>>4753894
Kiyohime, Shuten technically with Orochi links, The Leviathan is a Great Serpent/Dragon so Melt is on a day when she feels like tapping into his Authority.

Quetz in a way too. Sieg is draconic, Kijyo Kōyō is a t-rex oni, Liz is dragon steak
>>
>>4753896
ononono currykeks and arjunakeks we got too cocky

>Nasu Druj (demon of putrefaction)

sneed

We probably don't want Arjuna around ever if we're literally inverting the entire streetshitter pantheon alignments
>>
after becoming Arjuna Negro Ascendio in LB4 Arjuna has this neat thing, that I can see Vrita inheriting in a form:

>Anti-Evil (Unique): EX

>Power that’s equal to the authority bestowed by someone that brings about the end.

>He is burdened with the duty of erasing all evil. He’ll destroy villains that claim to be king, but he is too upright. This is applied to everything except pure children and saints.
>>
>>4753902
>>4753908
I don`t think we will be inverting all of them with just one manipulation.
But if it works with Vritra as we think it does...we can do that to Angra Mainyu too.
Although, I don`t know who properly corresponds to him in Hinduism.
>>
>>4753914
manjew is better known as Ahriman which might give you more hints
>>
>>4753914
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravana

Another name.

Still evil unfortunately
>>
>>4753919
I guess Virochana could be related to the idea of Angra Mainyu?

As "Virochana, certain that the Self is the body, went back to the demons and began to teach them that the body alone is to be saved and adored. He taught them that if you live with indulgence of the senses you will find joy in this world and the next."

He was kinda like the "evil thought" and king of demons opposite of Indra.

Basically it seems like dude wanted enlightenment but fucked up and taught the wrong lessons to the demons, but wasn't malicious per se?

Hinduism has so many sects and divisions and schools of thought you can't really make a unified school anyway iirc.
>>
>>4753248
>>4753632
+1
>>
>>4753918
>>4753919
Probleme here is that we will be bashing more or less monotheistic Zoroastrianism versus Hindu pantheon. And while on lower power levels between evil and good spirits it is all fun and works well.
All the World`s Evils analogue would be proper dharma? It would be weird to switch something which is conceptual Devil to something much smaller in powerscale.
Because if it works like that we can go around and start turning some Christian Saints back into full fledge tribal gods or vice versa.
By not going to lie. Idea about having saint Ishtar is hilarious.
>>4753923
>Hinduism has so many sects and divisions and schools of thought you can't really make a unified school anyway iirc.
Yeah. Some of them even go as far as being monotheistic. With something like Krishnaism everyone is just Krishna.
>>
>>4753931
At least Brahmanism makes sense as everything stems from and is a part of Brahma being the OG creator deity
>>
>>4753931
Heaps of revisionism happened to Irish mythos especially when Christianity got in there. Basically everyone got made a Saint or similar to keep their importance
>>
>Just break
>>4753262
>>4753415

>Compassion
>>4753263
>>4753269
>>4753278
>>4753294
>>4753451

>Just break and ask about compassion
>>4753423
>>4753430

>Asha
>>4753632
>>4753660
>>4753688
>>4753690
>>4753768
>>4753816
>>4753878
>>4753927
>>
>>4753931
>>4753933
You could try bashing together Brahmanism ver of Hinduism and Zurvanism ver of Zoro.

Zurvan/Brahman equivalency and Angra and Ahura as Devas and Asuras as a collective or their kings?
>>
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Oh and if we were worried about servants getting jacked by command spells remember Gil has Rule Breaker

https://youtu.be/oSPKAB70xtg

>>4753935
He's awake
>>
>>4753935
hey, what you think of this night's autism?
>>
Kinda seems a little complicated that you went for a Zoroastrian concept, but alright.
>>
>>4753939
It's manjew's fault
>>
>>4753939
You gave us 8 hours to pick a concept, at some point people began to look at wikipedia probably.
>>
>>4753939
Can't really go for Dharma as Vritra is already fulfilling her cosmic purpose via compelling people to be good by doing evil. Or is that buddhist?
>>
So we're applying concepts like Truth, Asha, Logos now?
You goddamn autists.
I love you anons.
>>
>>4753945
Just yesterday we were talking about bridging into this though, it was a matter of time. We considering learning Kabbalism for it even
>>
What will Asha even do? Twist her personality upside down?
>>
>>4753947
Asura dragon queen onee-san!
>>
I want to turn Ishtar into Sumerian IRL myth version where she was good and in the right vs later Babylonian/Assyrian version just to see Gil's face and to get discount Rinshtar
>>
>>4753950
I want to fuck Pollox
>>
>>4753950
This would be kind of possible, probably. As in SF Heroic Spirit summoning and Divine Spirit shit in Case Files both involve seeing a bit of their true forms. They are rendered as "light" thats in truth information thats so dense and conflicting that humans cannot interpret it right.

So conflicting beliefs/views and conflicting histories can coexist in Gods and beings on such a level.
>>
>>4753949
Will she be a better person at least? The problem I have isn't power, it was the whole, "can't feel compassion" stuff.
>>
Just looked into greek concepts of love, might be interesting:
>Agape
>Eros
>Philia
>Storge
>Philautia
>Xenia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love
>>
>>4753955
If we go by Authority=God=Function, then becoming a function of the good side in Zoro means her Authority changes and her self changes, maybe, probably?
>>
>>4753951
Me too.
>>
>>4753956
Did you see the fucking Caren pseudo that's hosting Eros and Amor. You just reminded me.
>>
>>4753955
We can add that later if she wants.
>>
>>4753955
> It is commonly summarized in accord with its contextual implications of 'truth' and 'right(eousness)', 'order' and 'right working'.

Considering Shinji is Japanese it would be more fitting to look there. Manjew research loosely lets this be handwaved I guess as WhatIs hasn't outright vetoed it but it's probably still pushing it.

>>4753956

If you want to opt for Greek you'd want to in story discuss ideas and philosophy with the greekoids actually present. If Chiron was summoned he'd love a chat about this, Medea might really appreciate it too, along with Assclap
>>
>>4753961
Concept Manipulation is kind of a one and done thing. You can only really do it once to people on this level.
>>
>>4753933
>>4753936
I read few theories that reincarnation in Buddhism is just by product of syncretism with all various Hindu beliefs.
That syncretism is also why it is able to merge with just about anything given some time.
>>4753950
>>4753953
I just remembered crazy conspiracy theory that catholics are actually worshipers of Mesopotamian gods. It has thing like Ishtar being virgin Mary among many other things.
>>
>>4753963
Annoying.
>>
>>4753964
>Ishtar
>virgin

ok hold on a second
>>
>>4753962
I think it makes 0% sense to think knowing obscure connections in myth and history is meta.

As a magus our actual job description involves the word "academia" and "mystery". No way Touko would actually let us exist without cramming gigamegaloads of obscure shit.

Clocktower even knows stuff like "half the Valkyries disappeared/died at X and Y time", this was talked about in a lostbelt iirc.

Random obscure knowledge is a magus' existence.
>>
>>4753965
You're already fundamentally changing the nature of existence. Continually doing so would just likely erase people entirely.
>>
>>4753964
Noah's ark was based on mesopotamian myth if i remember correctly.
Thats why people theorize that king hassan is Noah.
>>4753969
I see, still, its a little annoying.
>>
>>4753968
As long as we're not breaking character I'm fine with it. Don't want to ruin the story with powergaming above what the character could/would do.

WhatIs do you want to draw a line somewhere at all or does this all sit alright by you?
>>
>>4753970
The Flood myth occurs a lot across cultures, like the Chaoskampf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth
>>
Vote called then?
>>
>>4753973
Yeah.
Its funny.
>>
>>4753968
I guess you could also imply that the origin of the word culturally will also influence the concept, for Vrita it's still a linked concept for her so it shouldn't change much, but if you use a japanese shinto/buddhist concept on a western servant they become a weeaboo on top of their concept and usual aesthetic and you risk corrupting the character in that way?
>>
>>4753977
You are right but let me remind you about Ishtar-Astarte in Servant Universe being explicitly connected to Astaroth the demon due to etymology and her having demonic shit too. Its a plot point so its definitely a thing in nasu.
>>
>>4753981
Thats why she is a avenger also, she hates that they make her connected to a demon.
>>
Shinji gettin all up in the esoteric shit now I see

Should really set aside some study time for Kabbalah in the future, maybe after yoinking Kiara
>>
>>4753983
Time to learn Kabbalah with a small child!
>>
>>4753983
We should be retarded good at Kabbalah due to being Blessed by God. If we can use that as a connection to exploit akin to AoG nepotism or even just symbolism to strengthen a Kabbalah Foundation.

Kabbalah is also pretty OP. I seem to remember Roa's "Overload" being based on Kabbalah-Numerology to square the effects of his spells based on a Melty Blood and Tsuki Manga thing. I don't remember if it was an RM too but I seem to remember it so.
>>
>>4753947
I'm expecting her personality to stay the same, just to become more complete. She's already a harsh trainer on the side of humanity, and we're not making her Good.
>>
>>4753981
and Muramasa dabbing on Amakusa because he named his RM castle in such a way that it included the word Edo, so he could pull out one of his cursed swords that fucked up the tokugawa that built edo.

I guess we can justify it

nasuisms
>>
>>4753984
>her favorite read is no longer The Little Mermaid

Happy Merchant Kiara, fucking imagine
>>
>>4753985
I found the source of Roa's thing but uh it's part of the 2nd and 4th character popularity polls that are completely in japanese that I can't read, only rely on extant translations. It IS a Reality Marble supposedly, Kabbalah-Numerology based.
>>
>We get to Orochi
>He starts yelling how we are actually the world ending threat and he is just trying to save the world
I thought Compassion was alright. I am not really into the idea that we should go around and rewrite people with weird concepts.
But I do believe that all this connected myth knowledge we brought up should be fine to do.

I am recalling now that Arcueid directly told us about our strange relationships with dragons.
>>
>>4753987
https://youtu.be/VWsthlp8wpA?t=715

If anyone is interested in Avenger Amakusa losing to a fucking play on words of all things and didn't suffer through Shimousa and its forced musashit before Chad Gong yeeted her off the field for you
>>
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>>4753988
>>
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>>4753990
What can he say, he likes reptiles.
>>
>>4753990
I liked compassion, but then I've liked other default options before and still pushed the autism on

I was fine with it getting vetoed but here we go
>>
>>4753995
I very much enjoy autistic, obscure and esoteric concepts getting used, so I have my preference.
>>
>>4753993
Shinji "Snekfucker" Makiri

Do you have any other palettes for him that you'd want?
>>
>>4753997
A Santa Version.
>>
>>4753997
swimsuit
>>
Just finished the Character Sheet for Vritra. God damn is she overpowered now.
>>
>>4754000
we expected as much.

did you learn anything about autistic niche theology in doing so?
>>
>>4754000
>God damn is she overpowered now
This should be the motto for today.
>>
>>4754000
oh my
But to be fair, we need walking nukes to fight the shit you throw at us.
>>
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Angry smoll gorgon
>>
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>>4754001
My brain hurts.
>>
>>4754004
soon to have an older sister that will groom her
>>
>>4754000
>>4754005
She is in top 3 now? Even stronger than Medusa?
>>4753995
>>4753996
Yeah, we had pretty good results with some write-in idea and digging on concepts.
And it is not like Nasu does not do that himself as well.
>>
>>4754005
Betelgeuse moment
>>
>>4754005
...

We should rent a copy of Monty Python and the Holy Grail for Mode Red, Seibah, Morgan, and Obe
>>
>>4754012
I think the Black Knight segment might trigger some PTSD there.
>>
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>>4754012
>>
>>4754012
>>4754013
Next Carnival will be fun.
>>
>>4754012
Isnt fou essentially the killer rabbit?
>>
I just caught up with the thread, what does Asha mean?
>>
>>4754021
>a Zoroastrian concept with a complex and highly nuanced range of meaning. It is commonly summarized in accord with its contextual implications of 'truth' and 'right(eousness)', 'order' and 'right working'.
>>
>>4754023
Huh. Whoever came up with that is a genius.
>>
>>4754025
>>4754015
>>
>>4754008
>She is in top 3 now? Even stronger than Medusa?
It really depends.
There's a lot of tremendously powerful allies you've got now.
>Gilgamesh
>Liberation Enkidu
>Arcueid
>Lugh
>Three Faces Medusa
>Supreme Demon King Nobunaga
>Four Tailed Goddess Tamamo
>Archer Karna
>Tiamat Sakura
>Alítheia
>Obeithion
>Chiyome
>Kaleidosword Rin
>King Mordred
>Morgan
>Avalon Saber+Shirou duo
Ranking them in actual order of strength at this point is practically impossible.
>>
>>4754027
Oh, Alcides too, of course.
>>
>>4754027
>Redman crying in a corner at not getting his own powerup.
>>
>>4754027
Does aoko belong in that list? I'm not familiar with how strong she is.
>>
>>4754029
What happens if we give Redman the concept of Origine/Original?
>>
>>4754031
Gilgamesh seethes.
>>
>>4754030
She does, actually, yeah.

I'd like to see you all try to rank your allies in strength while I write this update.
>>
>>4754033
>Ranking them in actual order of strength at this point is practically impossible.
I won't even try.
>>
>>4754035
Rank them in destructive capacity, not who would win in a fight.
>>
>>4754029
severance package will make it up to him on account of taking into consideration all the pay he did not earn
>>
>>4754030
Well, she blows up Flat Snark which is something OP called a Crown Mystery that has Primordial Ether(dunno what that means) and with 5th Magic tanks Touko's 1,000,000% strengthened Primordial Runes that are like Bryn's by somehow overlapping versions of herself?

Flat Snark seems like the moon but its unclear if its actually moon size/grade. It could be if Ploys work like Textures.
>>
>>4754036
Uhhh...does Arc get Archetype Earth feats, Saber unsealed Excali and Mordred also unsealed Excali level? I also dont think we know all of Obe and Nobu's NPs. Or Karna's. Or Tamamo's
>>
>>4754039
I also dont think we know all of Obe and Nobu's NPs. Or Karna's. Or Tamamo's
Mordred is actually saving her most powerful Noble Phantasm too.
>>
>>4754042
Tama just needs to tap into her sun authority to have it go supernova and byebye solar system
>>
>>4754042
Damn, I missed up the quote with spoilers somehow.
Keep everyone at the level they are currently at, if you're actually going to do it.
>>
>>4754038
So she's pretty much OP then. Hearing about how strong aoko is makes me sad that in nearly 10 years her vn still hasn't been translated.
>>
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>>4754044
Bye bye Tamamo, more like.
Besides, she can't do that when she only has 4 tails anyway.
Also that would be suicide.
>>
>>4754036
Pure destructive potential, huh? I'll give it a shot

50% Arcueid>Tiamat Sakura>25% Arcueid=Lugh>Alitheia>Gilgamesh>Aoko>Morgan>Liberation Enkidu>Three Faces Medusa>Alcides>Four Tailed Goddess Tamamo>Archer Karna>King Mordred>Avalon Saber+Shirou>>Kaleidosword Rin>Supreme Demon King Nobunaga>Obeithion>Chiyome
>>
>>4754051
Now that I think about it, if we go by destructive potential, Wyvernspam Medea with Dragon daughter blessing should be up there too.
>>
>>4754027
Destructive power speculative ranking.
1. Tiamat Sakura due to magical energy output+actually having a real Authority.
2. Four Tailed Tamamo should be X*9 to the power of 4, where X is 1 tail power level. Also probably has her mirror like in Extra. Multiplication via extra tails is super OP because of how numbers work.
(3? Morgan could be here if we take the Rhongo shot into LB5 as actually a replication by Morgan due to how it arced and the magic circles, otherwise she falls down, but she does have Type-Britain or whatever powers like Uther and Vortigern)
3. Arcueid currently has her power slashed by Orochi but she should be the top if she was full power. Can moondrop via Marble Phantasm
4.Aoko due to maybe moonbusting if we take Flat Snark at face value. (5th Magic can confirm Heat Death and move Heat/Time/Value. For example of Heat as value see Konjiki Hakumen in Extra)
5. King Mordred is here because we don't know if Obe has an Excali variant and Excali OP due to convergence+acceleration - Position also occupied by Gil due to Ea. Anti-World but not Anti-Planet usually. Also Enkidu due to stalemating Ea. Roughly equals.
6. Obeithion
7. Avalon Saber+Shirou (Normie Saber has relatively bad mana support but its still Excalibur so she can fire it off a few times then disappear)
8. Kaleidosword Rin could be here if the Kaleidosword is such an improvement over Jewel Sword which already stalemates Grail Sakura's 1 million magical energy unit beams)
9. Archer Karna is here because nuke memes and Mana Burst
10. Alitheia here. Very high energy generation but doesn't have good spells to exploit the energy and only breathes in a line. (For example Excali has convergence and acceleration attribute to gain greater than 100% efficiency)
11. Three Faces Medusa can Cetus a large area and probably mountain bust if we take Hercules' comparison for Gorgon strength boost.
12. Supreme Demon King Nobu. We don't know her probably broken NPs only her muskets and illusion shit, so this is probably inaccurate.
13. Lugh here. This is because its a destruction ranking list and not a who would win list. Lugh's magecraft caps out at village level and he is hand to hand.
14. Chiyome. Is a ninja not a bomber.

This is my attempt. It ranks pure destructiveness because I don't think its possible to rank true strength due to bad/good matchu