>LOOK STATS
Hit Dice: 4d6+12 HP (28/28 HP)
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+6
Masterwork Knife +7 melee (1d4+4), 19-20/x2 crit
Claws +6 melee (1d4+2)
Bite +6 melee (1d6+4)
Composite Longbow +5 ranged (1d8+2), x3 crit
Longsword +6 melee (1d8+4), 19-20/x2 crit

AC 19 (+3 dex, +4 natural, +2 leather armor)
Str 18, Dex 17, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 17, Cha 14
Fort +6, Reflex +7, Will +4
+7 Initiative
60 foot land speed, 20 foot climb speed, 30 foot swim speed
Membrane for gliding (40 ft (clumsy) in favourable winds)
Scent, Low Light Vision, Darkvision 60ft, Electricity Sense, Trapfinding

Devour, Every Last Bite
Poison: with Bite, DC 14, 1d6 Primary & Secondary Con damage, 3 uses/day
Stunning Shock: 2d8 nonlethal electricity to living opponents, one target w/in 5 feet, DC 14 half
Ferocity
Immunity to Electricity
Language: Common (voices: young boy, man)
Proficiencies, dagger, club, all martial weapons

Sorcerer Casting: Detect Magic 5/day (10% Arcane Spell Failure Chance)

Total skill bonuses (when higher than stat):
Jump +25 (can use Dex)
Balance +17
Swim +14
Hide +13
Listen +13
Move Silently +13
Spot +13
Handle Animal +7
Climb +6 (plus climb speed) (can use Dex)
Use Magic Device +6
Bluff +5
Diplomacy +5
Disguise +5
Escape Artist +5
Knowledge (Local-Thurminham general) +6
Knowledge (Local-Thurminham underworld) +5
Survival +4 (+7 when tracking by scent)

Feats:
- Agile, Alertness, Athletic, Stealthy (+2/+2 skill feats)
- Skill focus: Bluff, Diplomacy
- Weapon Finesse
- Improved Initiative
- Great Fortitude
- Point Blank Shot
- Run
- Endurance
- Track

>LOOK INVENTORY
92 gp, 79 silver, 92 copper
Masterwork Knife, Cricket Bat, Garrote, Sap, Longsword
Composite Longbow (+2 Str), 48 arrows
Leather Armor
Decent Clothes
20 ft + 50 ft rope
8 flasks of high proof alcohol
Potions: Strength
Feather token (bird)
License to carry a longsword and longbow, made out to Soveliss, non-afflicted elf.
Unknown building key
At inn: travelling equipment

>LOOK ALLIES
Claire (human wizard novice)
[No lasting name] (Bodysnatcher. Last seen in barbarian body)
Kareesa (cult lady)

>LOOK OTHER STUFF
Uncanny Luck points: 1
General Luck points: 0

>>11848994
fuck yes, DD

>for cothacce!!!

>>11848994
>Gaul just stepped out back to let out some ale after finishing a story, leaving you a few minutes to ponder these developments

wait for him to come back...
I want to hear his other story.

then I want to set him after the bodysnatcher in the barbarian body.

rolled 95 = 95

>>11849029
>>11849015
fuck forgot my name

DD FUCK YEAH!!!

See about allying with the palabro.

It makes sense storywise even. After all this time without a conscience, the doppleganger finally meets someone who embodies altruism without being weak and becomes intrigued by the idea.

But mostly I think it would be awesome to be "the lesser evil."

>>11849029
do this

also
do we know if the bodysnatcher is still in the barbarian?

rolled 55 = 55

>>11849193
nope, but he doesn't need to be.

we give gaul the basics of what we know, tell him a horribly embellished story of what we saw it do in that alley and set him off.

and the best part is that we won't be lying to him, so long as we leave out our part in this.

>>11848994

Fuck yeah DD! Let's see what else is going on in the tavern.

>Wait for him to come back... I want to hear his other story.
>See about allying with the palabro.
>JEEZ, HERE I AM MORE PUTTING WORDS IN JACK'S MOUTH. SORRY GUYS.

You drink light on your ale until Gaul comes back, mulling over the conversation you've had thus far. "So, where were we?" Gaul asks, sitting down.
>"I believe you had another story."
"I've got a lot of stories. One of the perks of being in this line of work, though it doesn't seem that way when the stories are being made. Actually, I think I've been doing a lot of the talking, and that's hardly the sign of a good conversationalist. So I ought to ask: what's your story?"

>Do we know if the bodysnatcher is still in the barbarian?
You do not. It's been a few days since you've seen him.

>Let's see what else is going on in the tavern.
Mostly drinking, in twos and threes. It's starting to ease into the later hours of the night. There's a quiet game of dice with trifling sums going back and forth as each person's luck waxes and wanes.

rolled 5 = 5

out of curiosity, cast "detect magic"

I want to see what mojo he's got when he coms back, and stop him from seeing us do the actual casting.

>Out of curiosity, cast "detect magic"
>I want to see what mojo he's got when he comes back, and stop him from seeing us do the actual casting.
I'll retcon that in since you posted at the same time I did.
>1d100=56 Arcane Spell Failure chance

The strongest thing you see is his sword, which seems to have a minor enchantment on it. His shield, left behind, is neither magical nor seemingly valuable, nor is the lightweight armor he's got on. There are ten other magical auras on him, all of them less potent than the sword.

Ask him where he went, unless it was to the little Right Arm's room. But yeah, keep drinking with him while we process. Don't drink much, our constitution might not last as long as his, and I want him drunk and talkitive.

>Article Savermis
Captcha, I have no idea what that means.

>>11849392
He already said it was out back to piss.

>>11849412
He did? When?

But idea: Also ask about his sword.

rolled 40 = 40

>>11849365
thank you, for that.

so,he's got some stuff, not much, but as the saying goes

"beware the man that has just one gun, he probably knows how to use it."

this man has greater experience than the average man, and probably has a few tricks up his sleave...

>>11849392

thats where he went

>>11849452
See in OP:
>>Gaul just stepped out back to let out some ale after finishing a story

>>11849475
Yeah, is that pissing, or killing our sniper?

rolled 74 = 74

>>11849452
thats what
>to let out some ale
means

and DO NOT ASK ABOUT THE SWORD
just ask him about his other story (summarize tempDM if you don't want to write a whole story)

then tell him about the bodysnatcher, start with the line.

"now that I think about it I have seen a wolf around town..."

trail off, pull out a bottle of high proof alcohol and drastically 'improve' our beverage then offer some to the arm, take a pull and tell the story of our first view of the bodysnatcher

>>11849521
True. Ask then if anyone tried to rob him durning pissing then. As this is a dangerous town and all - I'm still not convinced that 'going out back to piss' didn't also involving killing our sniper.

However, instead of giving the high proof to him, spike his drink now. If he comments, we can tell him. If not, no worry.

And don't tell him about the Body Jumper! He was one of our other allies! No talking about body jumpers and no talking about cults. If we can find a good patsy and still remain bros, then good, but I'd rather keep everything rosy.

And not -driectly- ask about his sword, but guide the line of questioning toward it. heck, we could even go 'So how do you kill these wolves, when you have to?'

>But idea: Also ask about his sword.
Gaul pulls it out and sets it on the table after rapping the table's top once. "Here, have a look. The smith did a nice job with it--see right there, how the line flows in? The metal might look odd, but that's because it's a special sort of iron. In one of my few strokes of luck I even managed to have the thing enchanted--and am I ever grateful for how many hours of sharpening that's saved. It gets the job done, and I couldn't ask for more. But if you were expecting a talking sword covered in blue flames that glows as brightly as the sun, I'm sorry to disappoint."

>Yeah, is that pissing, or killing our sniper?
You sent your sniper away earlier.

rolled 54 = 54

>>11849596
no, he's back now don't spike it without asking.

the body jumper is a danger to us as much as he is a danger to everyone else.

so are the cultists

on the sword I can follow that line of reasoning, compliment him on it first, and ask him what it cost him

>>11849626
"Why would it be blue and glowing? Anyway, a sword with a right edge is a more magical weapon then something hums 'Good Golly, Miss Molly' in three part harmony and polishes your spats afterward, eh? But come on, that can't be the only thing to kill some damn wolf. I mean, a sword and your stunning good looks can only go so far - and I bet you don't trick all those demons into standing under a lake of holy water every time."

rolled 50 = 50

>>11849674
I second this

and suggest it with this as a following statement >>11849521
>then tell him about the bodysnatcher, start with the line.

>"now that I think about it I have seen a wolf around town..."

>trail off, pull out a bottle of high proof alcohol and drastically 'improve' our beverage then offer some to the arm, take a pull and tell the story of our first view of the bodysnatcher

>>11849864
I concur with this.

>On the sword I can follow that line of reasoning, compliment him on it first, and ask him what it cost him
"Well, it's hardly a show piece, but I wouldn't want one of those for functional use anyway. And it's gotten its share of use, so I'm happy about it being made with practicality in mind. It cost me more than I could really afford, but since that extra investment might have kept me from bleeding out in a puddle, it's money well spent."

>"Why would it be blue and glowing? Anyway, a sword with a right edge is a more magical weapon then something hums 'Good Golly, Miss Molly' in three part harmony and polishes your spats afterward, eh? But come on, that can't be the only thing to kill some damn wolf. I mean, a sword and your stunning good looks can only go so far - and I bet you don't trick all those demons into standing under a lake of holy water every time."

"That one was a devil, actually. But I WISH it could be that demons, devils, either one, were what I dealt with all the time.

I keep a few tricks up my sleeve, but really what keeps me alive? Experience and sense, occasionally a bit of wit. The sword's handy, but not near enough if you blunder into a fight where it's you against twenty, you know? So I stay out of that situation. I stack the deck. It's not glamorous, but neither is dying just because I felt the need to give every cretin a fair fight."

>>11849864
And I'm still telling him about someone who could easily find out we turned on them. I do agree with offering happy drinking, as long as we don't drink as much. The Arm needs to get sloshed, and not us, bucko.

>>11849626

>But if you were expecting a talking sword covered in blue flames that glows as brightly as the sun, I'm sorry to disappoint.

Looks like Gaul needs to quest for more glory.

rolled 90 = 90

>>11849889
point 1.
we aren't actually drinking.

we are giving the impression that we are.

point 2. we have a massively efficient digestive system, and I remember somewhere tempDM saying that it was harder fr us to get drunk...

>>11849877
"Eh, true. I was just kinda fishing for any trinkets you have to, well, keep me alive, you know? I don't really think you can bundle up 'Stacking the Deck' and 'Cunning Old Man Experience' into a nice little package." Shrug, and look at. "Well, ok, since you are package of 'Cunning Old Man Wisdom', got any gems?"

>Tell about bodysnatcher
>Don't tell
>TempDM thinks: Okay, we can wait on this

>Trail off, pull out a bottle of high proof alcohol and drastically 'improve' our beverage then offer some to the Arm
"Strong stuff there. Taste goes well, too. Who's the maker?"

>Point 1. We aren't actually drinking. We are giving the impression that we are.
You asked about his sense motive earlier, and based on the result decided not to fake drinking, but to take it slow, if I remember right.

>Point 2. we have a massively efficient digestive system, and I remember somewhere TempDM saying that it was harder for us to get drunk...
That's mostly true.

>>11849889

I agree with this. While rogueadin could be a useful and interesting ally, the bodysnatcher could be anywhere and anyone right now. And he did us a solid in helping us rescue Claire earlier, let's not betray him unless he directly threatens us or one of our goals.

I vote for keep listening to the paladin's stories and maybe getting him more than a little bit tipsy by keeping the drinks coming.

rolled 20 = 20

>>11850054
"eh, I picked it up off a guy a while ago. I think he made it in his house"
(pause)
" drink it when I need to think, or rather, when I really don't want to think about something."

(my apologies on point one)

>>11849984
This sounds hella suspicious.

Why are we trying to get the pally drunk? Seriously, do we have a reason?

rolled 24 = 24

>>11850163
...because drunk people are funny?

captcha
thinks viceleal

>>11850183
Yeah but us trying to get him drunk might be suspicious, and since we aren't planning to attack him it's pretty pointless.

>>11850154
I agree, don't say it.

>>11850163
i agree we still need to figure out: who are we siding with?

the cult
or
the pally
or
FUCK ALIGNMENT DECISIONS, WE WHERE THROWN INTO THIS WORLD WITH ONE PRIMAL INSTINCT, TO EAT. GET THIS PALLY DRUNK, THEN EAT HIM, THEN, ONE BY ONE, WE GET THE CULT

>>11850163

Because if he get's drunk, he might get talkitive. If he gets really drunk, we might find out where he stays.

>>11850121

"Who made it? I..." Look at bottle. "Crap, I really don't know. I know I went to a bar and when I woke up, I had these. Erm...Alcohol Fairy?"

rolled 11 = 11

>>11850210
nah, it'll look fine once we get the inebreated off-key singing started early.

when we leave I vote we stop by the cult-house appologize to the little girl (MAKE A NOTE OF IT) explain that the game has changed, and tell them that the arm isn't after us/them

>>11850235
The paladin is a bro. Yesterday we decided that we prefer him to the cult, and allying with him could be absolutely boss.

>>11850235
Nah, our allignment is Selfish. We bro with pally, we make sure we steer the main portion of the Cult away from him and control to rule and if the cult is gonna eat -us-, or destroy our world before we become a god, we sic Broidin on them.

I want to hear the story about the human trafficking ring that was promised.

>>11850235
Ultimately we'll play them off against each other and then eat the survivors.

>>11850270
He's already plenty talkative. Seriously, look at how much he's told us already. We keep asking him questions and not saying much ourselves, but he's such a bro that he's answering almost everything and not giving us the same interrogating in return.

>>11850235

My 2¢ on this:

The cult said we're a splinter or a part of this great devourer thingymajig; they also want to bring him into this world to do the average cult thingies, which probably involves a ton of devouring. It will probably mean that the devourer thing might want to reclaim as many splinters/fragments of itself as possible.

It might equal good times for us if it treats us like elite minions, but more likely we'll be subsumed into it. I think that allying with the cult in the long term will result in our death or the destruction of our individuality.

>>11850302
that kind of story would remind us of our hunger

cap: biltly tg

>>11850235
I want to join the pally. Fuck being a selfish prick all the time, it's getting old.

>>11850302
I second this.

I remember saying in the previous thread that we could learn more about how he operates when dealing with more human opponents.

It would be good info to have as the cult could probably be found using these methods.

>>11850330
good point, I'm say we side with the pally, while trying to figure out how a splinter of a god can eat the larger part of himself while still being dominant

>>11850336
No it wouldn't. We never forgot our hunger. We spent much of the last thread debating over if or when we should eat the pally.

>>11850394
Except we may not be a splinter of the Devourer. Our existence actually predates the ritual that the cult believes called us to this plane.

>Get him drunk
>Don't get him drunk

>Ask about trinkets
>No don't

>We don't like him anymore let's eat him
>No he's bro let's join him

I'm monitoring the thread, but I'm going to wait a bit more before pushing for any consensus. Also you guys can't agree on anything and it's hilarious.

>>11850437
It's two against one for hearing the story about human trafficking.

>>11850302
>>11850371

>>11850399
And we decided that we weren't going to eat him because 1) he's cool and we like him 2) we're not sure we want to take him in a fair fight 3) we're not sure we want to take him in an UNfair fight.

rolled 56 = 56

>>11850437
1= option 1
2= option 2
3= option 2

you know what, i think we should just go for broke and show the palladin our true nature, if he is repulsed by our ability, then hes food.

I remember him saying that he hopes his current quest just involves a handshake and a conversation, my theory is that he is well aware of us and that these stories are a way to expand our look on life.

lets be honest so far this paladin has admitted to:
lying to a devil
stealing holy water

he's as grey as we are, if we go back to our agreement of "no more eating innocent people" vow we had with Claire this paladin may understand that this is our instinctive nature, not good or evil.

Anyone else interested in asking him if there would be room for a Left Arm of Heironeous? It could be pretty badass for us.

>>11850508
what DD will turn into if we get paladin powers:
>smite evil
>eat
>smite evil
>eat
>SMITE MORE EVIL
>OM NOM NOM

rolled 65 = 65

>>11850505
you know, that seems like a not totally retarded idea.

or I've een awake too long(37 hours)...

rolled 7 = 7

>>11850508
yes, actually it does.

if we achive this goal TempDM can we take a level in paladin?

>>11850505
Except that it is likely we are not his intended target at all. We're just involved because we are impersonating his target. And even if we were the intended target there is nothing that says we couldn't substitute the cult and the bodysantcher as decoys.

>>11850505
...The fucking hell? No, lets not do this, fucking ever.

>Get him drunk

For drunking singing, bonding, finding out where he lives, stalking, and maybe some more openness - after all, when he's sober, we can't be sure he's not lying.

>Ask about trinkets

He was pretty open about his sword, so asking about the trinkets are good. As is asking if he can impart any oldman wisdom to us other then 'stack the deck' and 'lie through our teeth'.

>We don't like him anymore let's eat him
>No he's bro let's join him
>Bro with him, but not joining him because he could smite us.

Yeah, going with option 3, not the one listed. We don't have to join, and we don't have to eat. We can keep our options open. After all, we could as well be the Nostrils and Left Ear of a god, rather then the Left Hand.

>>11850655
Having him tell the story about the human trafficking ring would help with getting him drunk. We had to call for another round after he finished his last story.

Also try and remember that this tavern heavily waters down its beer.

rolled 86 = 86

>>11850723
pay for another round then and call it payment for the story of the trafiking ring

(sorry tempDM; but it's your fault that you write a great impromptu)

>Ask for the human trafficking story--it's the only thing we agree on!
"Like I said earlier, it's definitely your turn for the story. If I told all my stories tonight, what would I have to talk about next time I bump into you?" Gaul replies with a chuckle. "Seriously though, that story is a long one, and I'm planning on calling it a night fairly soon. It's good for a person to unwind after traveling and before a day of hard work, but I do need some sleep before I start busting my ass tomorrow."

>DM's note: my impromptu would be weaksauce right now, since I'm way overdue for bed. Weird schedule lately and I'm switching my hours around this weekend. Sorry.
>Also you totally dodged his question about that earlier, so it's only fair.

>>11850655

Also going with option #3. Getting acquainted of all of the potential allies/enemies we can get before we have to throw our lot in with any of them is never a bad thing.

rolled 20 = 20

>>11850907
I suggest we tell the first story of watching the bodysnatcher.


and asking him about the mini death-wolves we encountered in the forest.

Don't get him drunk. If we're going to ask about trinkets, do so in a less suspicious way. at least ASK ABOUT allying with paladin, see if he's even willing to.

>>11850655
If he was gonna smite us I think he would have already. Also even if he's willing to work outside the box I doubt any paladin is going to be smiting a sworn ally without warning.

>>11850907

Ruh roh.

Do we have any stories that don't involve greviously injuring people/things and then eating them or letting bodysnatchers snatch them? And I don't think we have a high enough perform skill to put enough spin on those stories so our friend here won't be freaked out.

"Story time, huh?" Shrug. "Well, I don't got much. When I was trying to get here I, eh...well, I hadn't really heard about the werewolf war and that, so in a fit of stupid, I decided to come through the woods. I had been traveling for a while when I found this pack of mini wolves. Yeah, I don't really know what they were, just very small wolves. And none of them were very nice so...to make a long story short, I found out that wolves can't climb trees and a cross bow outranges claws and teeth."

And play off my inept attempt at story telling as us sucking at telling stories.

>>11850907
"My friend, the most interesting thing I've ever done was eat some exotic food."

>>11851271
HAHA! Yes. Actually, if he calls us on it, we can tell him about Croc hunting, too.

rolled 4 = 4

>>11851271
"...so why don't we call it an (look outside at what I hope is a darkening sky) evening and maybe when we meet again I buy you another drink and listen to another story."

I do have to go and check on someone though, I'm trying to make some arrangements to leave the city.

hearing your story has only encouraged me to go out and see what the wide world has to offer.

but I must go.

im throwing in my vote for allying with this guy.

bodysnatcher we may not want to fuck with as he could be anybody. hell, for all we know WE'RE TALKING TO HIM RIGHT NOW.

the cult on the other hand, is splintered and travelling to this town. they are easy pickings, for they trust us.

>"My friend, the most interesting thing I've ever done was eat some exotic food."
"Oh come on, there's got to be something."
>"Okay. Story time, huh?" Shrug. "Well, I don't got much. When I was trying to get here I, eh...well, I hadn't really heard about the werewolf war and that, so in a fit of stupid, I decided to come through the woods. I had been traveling for a while when I found this pack of mini wolves. Yeah, I don't really know what they were, just very small wolves. And none of them were very nice so...to make a long story short, I found out that wolves can't climb trees and a cross bow outranges claws and teeth."
>And play off my inept attempt at story telling as us sucking at telling stories.
Gaul starts laughing at this, a deep laugh from something really funny. You hear something that sounds like "wild dogs" as he laughs.

>Sorry /tg/, I passed out there. Gonna have to call it a night because I literally cannot stay awake. I was totally fine when we started, too.
>Also sorry about the lack of either progress or paladin story this thread. While nobody could agree for the first part, I figure it's my fault for not bringing it to a vote. The second part is me not wanting to deliver crap from tiredness.
>New thread should be up tomorrow or the next day, earlier in the day.

>>11851538
dammit, right when i got here too

rolled 15 = 15

>>11851538
well, since he's out for the thread, why don't we all decide on our long term course of action then.

that way TempDM can just pick it out of the last thread and run with the assumption.

Should we archive the thread? We only got to about 80 posts. TempDM could maybe just restart thread 21 and repost what stuff we actually did.

Whoever just archived the thread should be banned from using the archive ever again. That was a terrible entry.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/11848994/

>>11851657
then try to be alittle more on the ball next time, shit for brains.

>>11851657
you humourless faggot

>>11851683
>>11851700
Try not sucking so badly at English that you can't even use proper capitalization or punctuation. Try not sucking at entering a tag so badly that you can't even use commas. Try not sucking at following a format so badly that yours is the only shitty looking archive entry in the entire 21-series of threads.

>>11851584
Well, a potential line of logic to use for the cult, when we have to justify our actions here: The paladin wouldn't have been easily provoked, and as we spoke with him we discovered he was more than willing to speak on his purpose here... and we suspect that he's hunting something else. Obviously, if there's any other great evil growing in the city, we want it dealt with. The foolish Right Arm will be our hapless catspaw in this matter, mwa-ha.

And that will hopefully convince them that we didn't spontaneously decide to side with the paladin just because he seemed like a bro.

>>11851724
And on that note, what is up with a good half the posters in this thread? Is it so hard to capitalize your words so that it doesn't look like a 12-year old wrote your post? Wait, sorry, most every 12-year old I've met knows how to use grammar better than that.

>>11851724
if its really that big of a problem, which it's really not as the thread still pops up when you search doppleganger, perhaps you should try getting out more? failing that, i'd suggest chugging battery acid.

Goddammit, I just caught up, and I am disgusted by the faggotry of our hivemind.


>>11851584
Okay, since we apparently told the sniper off, rather than just the girl (Seriously, how stupid are we? Gods curse you all, he was a damn sniper, he should have stayed there waiting, we could walk out with him, dammit dammit dammit!), there's no way we can shoot him, so the whole 1d) test out his abilities/fortitude/reflexes-at-dodging-bolts plan is shot through.

Allying with him would be absolutely stupid because he doesn't know shit about us other than how we're a quiet bar-goer who is new to town with a (niece? daughter?) as a student. He has nothing to offer us other than 'Well, he may let us scavenge off his kills, maybe' and 'Oh, he's so strong and dreamy~'. Jesus fuck, you bunch of homosexual halfwits.

Staying with the cult is good, because they're useful. Betraying the cult is stupid, because the worshiper of a crippled god is not useful.

Don't worry TempDM, you spin a good enough yarn for us to be forgiving about your comings and goings.

Hell, it's almost one in the morning in my time zone, and here I am.

(dammit captcha, give me REAL words)

>>11852139 continued
God.
Now that that's out of my system:

For a future course of action, staying as 'that one guy I drank with once' would be the best course of action. We don't want him to be our bestest friend and ally in the whole wide world, but we also do not (I stress, do NOT) want to become his enemy either, since I suspect he isn't even after us, personally, to begin with. Is he after the cult? Eh, maybe, but that's no matter, because if he finds out about our connection to the cult if he's after the cult's 'Devourer' beast, we can easily high-tail it out of town, as we were planning once before, I believe.

For the present course of action...Well, we've told one story, contributed to the 'socializing' ritual, and became a drinking buddy of his by offering him some of our strong alcohol (That was a very good idea, I commend you all for it). There's no real need to get him drunk. Sure, he could talk some more, but it'd be difficult and suspicious, since he's already wanting to leave. It's a shame those two cultists left (the pieces of useless shit), else the girl could at least stalk him to see where he goes. Maybe there's still a random cultist watching and playing recon for the Cultist lady whose name escapes me presently.

>>11852166 continued, goddammit, why do I type so damn much?

I don't doubt that she has spies tailing us, at least some of the time, and especially at a crucial moment like a shard of her Devourer going near the Right Hand paladin of etcetc. Don't think we could tell the spy to tail the Hand, if the spy even exists, without being painfully obvious/suspicious.

Tailing him ourselves is not a good idea, in case he has a good spot check, etc, and catches us. We'd have no excuse, really, without losing the relationship we just built up. That's not to say it's a bad choice, but it's not as perfect as I'd like.

What would be a perfect course of action? I don't have any ideas, dammit...
If the hivemind is still here and not all abed, speak to me and spitball.

Oh, and,
>>11851787
Fuck off, you have to be at least 18 years of age to be on 4chan.

>>11852180
best not tell your mother then, eh faggot?

>>11852180
>>11852166
>>11852139
You know, I'm just saying, there's a lot to be said for being "legit" in the eyes of society and the law. Being a staunch ally of a well known and well documented altruist would do a lot for us in that regard.

Look at it this way: if Heironeous has two mortal enforcers, and one of those two says that it's okay to eat the bodies of wrongdoers, "to remove any trace of their crime," or somesuch, then who's to argue? Gaul himself has stated that he's got all of three rules and has made the rest up himself. There's nothing in "Protect the Innocent, Redeem the Willing, Smite the Wicked" that says "don't eat people who deserve it."

We could go from being an "ambush predator" to an outright "predator," without worrying about hiding once we were done.

>>11852180
I say that you're right about not tailing him. Too much chance for a mishap, even with our outrageous hide bonus. For all we know one of those magic aces up the sleeve tells him if he's being tracked.

Cultist lady is named Karreesa (it's in the stat block).

As for the cultists we had for the ambush: our sniper seemed to be just a guy with a crossbow and some poison that was haphazardly smeared on a couple of the bolts. Not some ex-military guy, or hunter, or such, unless I missed something. And the girl? You want to trust her with something important like tailing this guy, and count on her neither being caught nor talking if she is? Once we decided not to spring the ambush, sending them away was the best move.

>>11852139
> Goddammit, I just caught up, and I am disgusted by the faggotry of our hivemind.
> Allying with him would be absolutely stupid because he doesn't know shit about us other than how we're a quiet bar-goer who is new to town with a (niece? daughter?) as a student.
You do realize that can change right? The better we get to know him, the better we can gauge how he'll react to us. We can potentially let him in on at least some of our abilities in order to gain a semi-legitimate ally.


> He has nothing to offer us other than 'Well, he may let us scavenge off his kills, maybe' and 'Oh, he's so strong and dreamy~'. Jesus fuck, you bunch of homosexual halfwits.
He's more powerful than us, has at least some legitimacy in this society, and seems like he might be a possible ally. We could potentially use him as a way of getting more powerful traits, he is a skilled monster killer after all.

> Staying with the cult is good, because they're useful. Betraying the cult is stupid, because the worshiper of a crippled god is not useful.

First, we haven't betrayed the cult, not yet at least. We can explain this to them at a later date if need be. Second, the cult is only our ally because they think we're some splinter of the Devourer. Judging by what the paladin said about the evil here, not only are we not the Devourer, the real one is probably somewhere around here. So as soon as the cult realizes that we've been leading them on, they'll turn on us. We need to prepare for that, which means having allies aside from the cult. We need to keep our options open.

>>11852139
Allying with him stupid? Not entirely. He seemed to make a point about helping redeem anyone willing, and that could be us. Personally I'm getting a little tired of the doppleganger as an animal; I see this as a welcome point to transition to the doppleganger as a person. There's still plenty of opportunity to eat and grow through this. But we could stop being hunted, and stop reacting to the world. Instead, we could be free of the worry about being discovered, and start making our own mark that's more than a trail of blood.

We want to be a god? Let's start gathering followers.

Honestly, I think this could be a much cooler story this way. Pragmatically, the paladin can offer us acceptance as we are into society, protection or alliance as appropriate, resources (I sense he has more than a fair share of them, be they favors or actual money), and potentially even divine backing.

I say we pursue alliance with the paladin over staying with this cult who may decide that we aren't the god-thing they think we are, or could even bring a god into the world to absorb us into itself. A cult that I don't see as being especially useful, especially after a near-term milking of its resources.

>>11852139
You seem to be glorifying the cult. They're not reliable allies. Not only do they have zero social legitimacy, they're also likely to turn on us as soon as they realize we're not who they think we are. We need a backup plan for when that happens, and Gaul seems as good a chance as any.

>>11852139
>>Oh, he's so strong and dreamy~'. Jesus fuck, you bunch of homosexual halfwits.
It's not that. It's that some people were expecting a generic CLEAVE AND SMITE or Lawful Stupid paladin who was ready to jump the doppleganger at the first opportunity, and instead found a decent guy who is, as one poster put it, "paladin done right."

I suspect that at least one or two people would feel terrible about killing the first non-douchebag paladin they've encountered in a game.

>>11850505
>>show the palladin our true nature, if he is repulsed by our ability, then hes food.

This attitude pisses me off more than anything else the /tg/ hivemind does in this quest. This isn't the first time, either. "Let me reveal my secret to you--if you're fine with it, we'll be best friends! But if you don't think it's cool, I'm going to brutally murder you!" Seriously, what. the. fuck.

>>11853704
It's cause /tg/ is all about using people for their own ends and then discarding them. Everyone has only instrumental value, they're good only for what they can give us. Of course, then there's the fact that a lot of the people here think we should just be eating everyone we meet. And yet somehow think we're not evil for doing so.

>>11853750
>>It's cause /tg/ is all about using people for their own ends and then discarding them. Everyone has only instrumental value, they're good only for what they can give us.
People like this are why I can never run engaging games. I put time into NPC creation, to make them interesting, but half the group just wants to use them and boot them out the door, ideally looted and dead so they can't talk to anyone about the group's weaknesses.

This attitude sucks in gaming and it sucks even more in real life.

>>Of course, then there's the fact that a lot of the people here think we should just be eating everyone we meet.
This will be what makes the quest lame. We'll have the chance to do something really awesome, but /tg/ will get distracted by the chance for some (likely worthless) power upgrade.

>>And yet somehow think we're not evil for doing so.
I can see it when we've been eating people just because we're hungry and didn't know or have reason to even think it was wrong, but we're at the point where it's time to make a moral determination of where we stand.

>>11853875

> I can see it when we've been eating people just because we're hungry and didn't know or have reason to even think it was wrong

I don't think we necessarily need to kill and eat people to live. We just do it to get traits. We're murdering people purely in order to serve our own ends. That's pretty much textbook neutral evil. And I'm pretty sure we have known for a while that these are sapient people we're killing and know that there's something wrong about that.

Of course, most of /tg/ doesn't care. NPCs are NPCs, it doesn't matter how many of them you rob/kill/rape.

But yeah, you're right about this being an important decision point. I'm pretty sure that if we go ahead and kill him we won't be able to reasonable claim to be neutral anymore.

>>11854093
You make a good point. The cult was feeding the doppleganger various ne'er-do-wells it had tricked or captured, or even its own unwilling members. The rogues were pretty clearly for traits, not for hunger's sake. Neutral evil has been skirted if not entered outright. I think the doppleganger is being given a chance for redemption before entering into evil territory. My guess is that if the doppleganger goes evil, many enemies will show their faces to make life merry havoc for him.

>>Of course, most of /tg/ doesn't care. NPCs are NPCs, it doesn't matter how many of them you rob/kill/rape.
/tg/ is going to whine too when this comes back to bite them in the ass. Watch TempDM's style. He is meticulous about having sensible ripple effects into the setting based on player actions. He is also very good at letting the players screw themselves over. Look at the adventuring party. /tg/ originally just saw a drunk dwarf to eat and nab stats from. That snowballed into almost getting the doppleganger killed three or four times all based on reasonable progression of the situation.

An actual DD thread up on my time zone? Oh, it's not running. Sucks.

Oh, we're debating where we should go? +1 for paladin. He will teach us the meaning of bro.

>>11852977
>Being a staunch ally of a well known and well documented altruist would do a lot for us
Have you forgotten how everyone regards him? He's trash, filth; hell, the priest said that they're just waiting for him to do the slightest thing illegal to cuff him in irons.

Look, you bring up good points, and there's nothing inherently wrong in siding with him, but, right now, his value and potential offering to us is not as valuable as the cult. The cult can provide us with multiple weak men, to an extent, and serves as a vast information network of spies, and can only grow larger now that their morale has been regained with the arrival/finding of us.

>>11853079
My desire to have the girl tail him was because she has an alibi. If she gets caught, she can play it off as her wanting to find out where he lives so she can tell her friends and they can all come to pester him. Don't forget that the majority of everywhere (judging by what he said in response to the girl's taunts) hates him.

Which ties into my above comment: Why be the staunch ally of a very hated person? Socially, it can't be good for us, especially if we get recognized by the Churches. Yes, we can change identities, but that requires a voice and appearance. Two kills. Knowing the hivemind as well as I do, we'd likely get distracted, forget our need for a disguise, and take a feat or skill instead.

>>11853187
>has at least some legitimacy in this society, and seems like he might be a possible ally.
We are a random guy he drank some beer with. We didn't save his life, nor did we do anything to show that we could be useful to him. Further, as I've said, he doesn't have legitimacy in society. Do you forget how the priest reacted to him? As if he was a loser, worthless, no different than mercenaries, and certainly not doing any big job to deserve praise. Even if he may have killed demons, no one respects him at all, so, no, he has no social legitimacy.

Would that he had high social ties with nobility, guards, etc, then I'd have nothing against siding with him and exploiting those ties, but he is a 'nobody with a name' (as opposed to our 'nobody with no name'). You want to use him for more food? The cult would be better because, as they expand, they can pull more food in. The way I see it, it is the difference between a weaver spider and a wolf spider.

>We need to keep our options open.
This I agree with. It is best to play with both sides, allying with neither, but using them both as a puppeteer would.

>>11853195
I just....what?
>the paladin can offer us acceptance as we are into society
That the paladin himself is scorned as a disgusting waste of space by everyone aside for the moment, is your knowledge of humanity so poor that you think they would accept us as a human devourer? We'd be seen as a parasite, and have people after our head and heart. That you even entertain thoughts of coming out and saying 'Whoa, look at me, I'm a strange and rare creature that eats off bodies~ But I fight crime, so it's okay!" and actually think it'd be accepted to any extent is beyond frightening.

I, too, desire a transition into being human, but rather than change from being a lone animal hunter to an animal hunter with a friend, I, personally, would rather get higher in society. Become a rich noble of some sort, by taking one's place, likely, and using the social seat of nobility, as well as extensive use of noble connections, to bring humans to us. Not petty rogues the cult can give us, nor fighters/mages the Hand can give us, but other rich nobles, captured prisoners, an entire town, maybe.
Imagine being so well-known, well-liked, so powerful in a town that, if your spy network says a group of adventurers came to town, we can immediately have a rundown of their equipment, looks, potential abilities, etc, because of our power in the underworld, and then we can use our nobility ties to get the adventurers to go on a quest of some sort to get them alone so we can kill them.

I will confess, the cult has poisoned me. Having control over such a network is addicting, and enjoyable, and I want a better one. But I digress.

Allying with anyone is stupid. Do not be so quick to concrete fellowships with others. It may be that the paladin accepts us, but then what?

Do not abandon either, cult or Hand, but use both to better ourselves. That is what I want.

>>11853239
The cult does have less social legitimacy than the Hand, yes, but they have more use than him. They may turn on us when they find out we are not their God, but we can just as easily lie about that, too, if need be, since their God fragmented. Why is there only one shard? When a jewel breaks, does it break into one shard only?
Or we can just leave them then, I've nothing against it, I just hate to see resources tossed aside before we've sucked them dry.

>>11853704
Everyone has a value based solely on their use to my ends. Evil though it may be, it is logical. Feel free to offer counter alignments, but this is what I like best.

>>11855892
>>11856027
>>11856050
>>11856062
These we all me, by the by.

>>11856062
> Everyone has a value based solely on their use to my ends. Evil though it may be, it is logical. Feel free to offer counter alignments, but this is what I like best.
> it is logical

Actually, it's not. What is the justification behind you being so important? Why are you the center of the universe in this moral calculation? Simply put, what makes the self so special that it becomes inherently more important than the other? In truth, there is no non-arbitrary reason to put the self up on that pedestal. It isn't logical, it's just being a selfish ass.

>>11856027
> The cult would be better because, as they expand, they can pull more food in. The way I see it, it is the difference between a weaver spider and a wolf spider.

The cult is also far more likely to kill us once they realize we aren't who they think we are. They aren't a reliable support group. Stop glorifying them just because they suck up to us for now.

>>11856192
Because, as far as I know, we are the only one of our species, and if any other species knew, they would kill us, or dissect us.

>>11856223
You have to understand, though we may not be the shard of their Devourer god, we are still a devouring monster that can take on attributes of what we eat. This Karreesa knows, and as seen first hand. They will likely kill us, but they would also be cautious, I think, so as not to die and dwindle their numbers more.

Further, what evidence might there be to suggest that we are not their shard? I see worry everywhere, but I cannot think of things we've given away that say otherwise.

Even if there is substantial suspicion against us, they are still more reliable than the paladin. There is no reason to abandon the cult just yet. That is not to say we should ignore the paladin, but do not abandon the cult so quickly.

>>11856272
> Further, what evidence might there be to suggest that we are not their shard? I see worry everywhere, but I cannot think of things we've given away that say otherwise.

Well, the fact that their Devourer is probably that evil that the paladin has described, which is not us. If the cult actually finds it, and we've gotten as cozy with them as you want us to, then we're screwed.

> Even if there is substantial suspicion against us, they are still more reliable than the paladin.

The cult, reliable? They're a cult worshiping a being that is actually more evil than we are. And that's saying something. I don't think they can really be called reliable consider that they'll turn on us the moment they find the actual Devourer that the paladin is here for.

Again, you're giving the cult far to much credit in your calculations just because they've been stroking your ego. Just because they suck up to us doesn't mean we should rely on them or trust them. We need a potential out, and the paladin is as good a shot as any.

>>11856272
> Because, as far as I know, we are the only one of our species, and if any other species knew, they would kill us, or dissect us.

This isn't actually a logic justification. You're saying that because we're the only one of our species, everyone else is only valuable for what they can give us. Why privilege the species like that? You're just putting off the question, instead of "what makes the self so important" it becomes "what makes our species so important." Logically speaking, you still have yet to articulate a premise that justifies saying "I'm the only ones who matters, everyone else just exists to serve my needs."

>>11856351
>the fact that their Devourer is probably that evil that the paladin has described, which is not us.
Yes, but that is nothing the cult knows. The cult has no reason to suspect us.

However, never have I said that I wanted to become 'cozy' with the cult. I simply do not wish to abandon them as some have expressed desire to here.
If you'll allow me:
Never go into a room that has but one exit. Do not place all your eggs in one basket.
There is no reason for us to abandon the 'basket' of the cult, just as there is no reason for us to use the 'basket' of the cult solely. In case one basket breaks, and our eggs in that basket shatter, we should have insurance in other baskets as well, so that we do not lose all our eggs if one basket tears..

>>11856402
Why does the lion kill the gazelle? To eat, to survive.
So, too, do we kill. To eat, to survive.
Does the hunter beast, be it the lion, the wolf, or any other predator, does it stop to think, "Is my own existence more important than the gazelle's? Am I so much more valuable than this poor creature that I have the right to kill and eat it?" No, of course not. The lion preys on the gazelle because it is in the lion's best interests to survive, as suicidal tendencies are not natural.

So, too, do we hunt, do we eat, do we survive, not out of evil, not out of a desire to rule, nor a desire to conquer, but out of a desire to survive, as we are the only one of our kind in a world filled with hostilities. We eat and absorb skills, traits, appearances, and use our preys weapons and armors, leaving nothing to rot or rust, so that we may survive and live longer.

So Claire accepts us, so the Hand may accept us; do you really think the entire world will accept us? That they will greet us as a friend and neighbor, that they will not turn us into the demon of their stories, that they will not act as humans do and place the blame on us for all their misfortunes?

>>11856703
> Does the hunter beast, be it the lion, the wolf, or any other predator, does it stop to think, "Is my own existence more important than the gazelle's? Am I so much more valuable than this poor creature that I have the right to kill and eat it?" No, of course not. The lion preys on the gazelle because it is in the lion's best interests to survive, as suicidal tendencies are not natural.

Your analogy is flawed. First, the lion does not think of the gazelle for the simple reason that it cannot. It is not sapient. One cannot call its behavior logical any more than one can call a tree logical. Logic simply does not play into the equation. You demean and devalue intelligence by comparing us to a mere lion.

Second, we don't need to kill to survive. There is nothing requiring that we do. We are physically capable of surviving off of normal food. We kill to gain traits.

And your argument that suicidal tendencies are not natural carries with it the inherent assumption that natural = good. This is a logical fallacy, one that is rather amusing on the internet of all places.

> So Claire accepts us, so the Hand may accept us; do you really think the entire world will accept us? That they will greet us as a friend and neighbor, that they will not turn us into the demon of their stories, that they will not act as humans do and place the blame on us for all their misfortunes?

Where did I ever suggest exposing ourselves to the world? That is your strawman, I merely have argued that your position that all others have value purely on an instrumental level is not logical as you have claimed.

>>11856703
There are a lot of questions that a lion does not ask itself. Questions like "why does the sun rise and set?" or "what makes a stone fall to the ground?" Does this mean that we shouldn't ask these questions either? No, that's absurd. We shouldn't hold ourselves to the mental standards of a lion because we don't think like a lion does.

>>11856895
And if the lion had the intelligence to ponder whether killing is necessary, would it refuse to eat? If you like, look at intelligent humans. Do they stop and wonder, "Is my life so much more important than these animals I consume?" And if you will say, "Oh, that's different, because the animals aren't sapient", then are you saying that it is okay for humans to unnaturally farm and raise these animals in unnatural habitats for the sole purpose of being eaten by humans? Are you saying that it is okay to do these injustices toward life because those animals are stupider than the humans? That they can be used to serve the humans' need for survival because they are not as important as humans?

And surely you are not going to say that suicide is 'good'. You say 'Logical fallacy, logical fallacy', but, really, we have been avoiding death quite a lot in our short life, so inflicted death upon ourselves can be understood as an action not to be taken.
>Where did I ever suggest exposing ourselves to the world? That is your strawman,
No, I was referring to those that wanted to tell the Hand that we're a omnivorous creature that gains traits from what we eat.
Incidentally, have we ever found out that we can gain traits from things we don't kill personally, or have we not tested that yet? I know we've tried on that drained body of the Body Snatcher, but it didn't work because of multiple reasons...

>>11856971

Way to ignore his argument, asshole.

>>11857052
The argument itself doesn't have much point in this thread anyway.

Two suggestions for what to do now, the first is imperative, the second a suggestion/idea:

1st, don't piss off either the cult or the pally, (or at least don't get them pissed at US) whatever we choose to do. 2 allies are better than 1.

2nd, isn't the pally is asking us for a story? May I suggest offering our first sighting of the bodysnatcher? Up for debate, of course. He might be able to help us dispose of it, and maybe become better allies in the future.

>>11857359
We told him the story of the wolves, a comedy.

And, no, don't bring up the body snatcher, ever, under any circumstances.

Really, now is just a "Well, it was nice meeting you, see you around, eh?", wave goodbye, then either go to Claire, the cult, or tail him.

I say Claire, for now, since we don't need anything from the cult (though we could explain why we sent the two away, but why should WE explain ourselves to them?), and tailing him ourselves would not be a good idea, as previously stated.

>>11855892
>>11856050
>>Have you forgotten how everyone regards him? He's trash, filth; hell, the priest said that they're just waiting for him to do the slightest thing illegal to cuff him in irons.
>>That the paladin himself is scorned as a disgusting waste of space by everyone aside for the moment
That's a bit of a jump. We asked what is effectively a group competing with the Arm what they think about their competition. The St. Cuthbert clerics and the Arm both are extra-governmental forces that work to protect the populace. It sounds to me like the St. Cuthbert clerics are attempting to protect their turf. If they downplay the Arm's efforts, then people will look to them instead when they desire protection. Additionally, the Arm may have done something to piss them off in particular, as he did to the Pelor clerics. Finally, much as I hate to bring alignment into this (but it is D&D after all), it may be an instance of Law (St. Cuthbert) conflicting with Good (Heironeous) on the best way to handle being Lawful Good.

I wouldn't use what the St. Cuthbert clerics have described him as for any sort of measure on how everyone else sees him. But we do have another source of his reputation that you haven't looked at: what our own cult has said about him.

His own words I think to be more a reflection that you can't do good deeds expecting praise for them, or to become a hero. Even if people get nervous having him around, that doesn't mean he won't likely have a network of his own to gather information, call in favors from, and so forth. He may have gotten no recognition for killing the demon but I highly doubt he could have gotten this far without having a number of people highly grateful for his actions.

>>11856050
>>I will confess, the cult has poisoned me. Having control over such a network is addicting, and enjoyable, and I want a better one. But I digress.
It's good that you can admit that. Keep in mind that an evil network is not the only option. Can you imagine being at the head of a network of paladins, generally able individuals unlike our majority of cult members, who would be just as able to help us gang up on high-power evil prey as they would to keep watch while we slept? We'd have far less worry about betrayal than we do now with the cult. Imagine too, what we could bring down with paladins supporting us. You want to get powerful? We're hitting the point where people are going to give us less and less benefit. If we were eating demons? We could become an unstoppable force in short order.

My own bias, since you admitted yours, is that I see an alliance with the Arm both as a way to advance in the world, and as a way to get beyond the "kill and eat every NPC, they're just a pile of stats" mentality that some of the player base has. We've had twenty threads where the doppleganger is an animal. Now let's have twetnty where he's a person. (And then, perhaps, twenty where he's a god? Or perhaps, the quest will end before then.) I'm only one of the individuals you were debating with who has a penchant for long posts, though, so please don't think my motive applies to the rest of them.

>>11856971
>>And if the lion had the intelligence to ponder whether killing is necessary, would it refuse to eat? If you like, look at intelligent humans. Do they stop and wonder, "Is my life so much more important than these animals I consume?" And if you will say, "Oh, that's different, because the animals aren't sapient", then are you saying that it is okay for humans to unnaturally farm and raise these animals in unnatural habitats for the sole purpose of being eaten by humans? Are you saying that it is okay to do these injustices toward life because those animals are stupider than the humans? That they can be used to serve the humans' need for survival because they are not as important as humans?
He may or may not be saying that, but I will. It's not because the animals are stupider, however. Sapience is "the ability to apply knowledge or experience or understanding or common sense and insight." This isn't a difference of IQ, it's a difference of reason versus instinct. I have no problem with sapient beings using instinctual beings as they see fit. However, in our scenario with the doppleganger, we're discussing a sapient being eating other sapient beings.

>>11857470
>I wouldn't use what the St. Cuthbert clerics have described him as for any sort of measure on how everyone else sees him.
Ah, but you just said:
>It sounds to me like the St. Cuthbert clerics are attempting to protect their turf. If they downplay the Arm's efforts, then people will look to them instead
And it seems that these Clerics are not just presently downplaying his efforts. People trust the clerics, they are always there, a constant support. They are very liable to believe the clerics when they scorn the Arm, and scorn him with them.

As for our cult's view on his reputation, correct me if I'm wrong, but it was filled with disdain as well as a little fear, the Arm being the sole receiver of his God's power/favor. We could go to the cult, presently, and ask them about what they and the underworld know of him, I agree, and it would be a course of action with a better goal than the vague 'just go to Claire and do something' I suggested previously.

I say that we at least broach the possibility of alliance with the Arm before we leave. I'm not saying we have to be all "HEY CAN I JOIN PLZ," but let's at least get his thoughts on the issue.

All of you wanting to keep our options open better damn well agree, because this could open up options without forcing us into any action.

>>11857517
>Can you imagine being at the head of a network of paladins
Can you imagine how much effort it would take to turn our one paladin into thousands? And using what? Fame? Renown? And what if circumstances require us to kill someone who is not evil? They'd be useless, unless we could somehow convince the paladin network that the man to die is, in fact, evil, when he is not. And even then, we'd have to worry about one of them finding out that the evil guy isn't evil after all, and then, betrayal from our own network because we do not keep as strong a code as they.

Personally, I'd much rather take over the cult. That is, gut it like a fish, dissect it and learn its anatomy, and then place ourselves inside it as a replacement. Make ourselves the heart, ourselves the brain, and have them cast aside their goals for reviving gods or demons or whatever it is they wanted, and instead worship solely us.

A network of paladins is nice, but a cult that worships the very ground we walk on is much more appealing, and much more easier to control. And much more easier to create, since we already have one that just needs a little tidying up.

I appreciate that you're trying to tempt me, though.

>>11857650
I can agree to this. How does...
>Well, if you're about to leave, so shall I. It was nice drinking with you. If you ever need anything, feel free to ask me if we meet again. And if we do meet again, let us drink together, and you can tell me another story of yours, and perhaps I'll have a story to tell to you.
...sound?
Too subtle?

>>11857644
>>And it seems that these Clerics are not just presently downplaying his efforts. People trust the clerics, they are always there, a constant support. They are very liable to believe the clerics when they scorn the Arm, and scorn him with them.
The best downplaying is not even mentioning someone. The St. Cuthbert cleric only gave his opinion (or perhaps, his organization's official line?) on the Arm when asked. Those who have had personal dealings with the Arm are unlikely to be swayed. Those who have heard good things about the Arm but don't ask the clerics for their 2 cents are likely to have no ill feelings either. Keep in mind: this is only one church. There are others, with followers of their own, who are unlikely to listen to anything the St. Cuthbert clerics have to say.

Do keep in mind, my earlier thoughts are unproven speculation, though I believe it is sound speculation.

>As for our cult's view on his reputation, correct me if I'm wrong, but it was filled with disdain as well as a little fear, the Arm being the sole receiver of his God's power/favor. We could go to the cult, presently, and ask them about what they and the underworld know of him, I agree, and it would be a course of action with a better goal than the vague 'just go to Claire and do something' I suggested previously.
I think the fear was from the reputation. The disdain seemed to be from the situation, and being repulsed by the idea of worshiping a god who has been weakened.

>>11857673
>>Too subtle?

Yes.

>>11857706
I agree with what you said of the cult, but what of our little girl? When she taunted and insulted the Arm, did he get angry? No, quite the contrary, he said that he was used to it.

Why would a respected paladin be used to being insulted by townspeople? Especially a paladin who is, as some has said, a "paladin done right', in that he does not just mindlessly smite evil, but takes into account circumstances and offers redemption to the willing.

Also, I disagree with
>The best downplaying is not even mentioning someone.
Perhaps in a more noble setting, where it becomes dreadfully obvious when a person of importance is ignoring someone else to spite them, but otherwise not mentioning them just suggests to your ignorance of the subject, unless, as I've said, it is painfully obvious that you are ignoring their existence out of spite. What the clerics would do, if they wished for the populace to not hold the Arm in any esteem, is to immediately insult, badger, and ridicule him by spreading slanderous rumors.
"Oh, you didn't hear it from me, but that Arm is..."
Then the peasants go around gossiping and the reputation of the Arm is set.

>>11857718
I figured as much.
How is this, then:
>Well, if you're about to leave, so shall I. If you're in town again and need some aid, feel free to call on me. I've nothing against helping a paladin [He might then refute this that he is not a paladin, though I'm sure he is]. It was nice drinking with you. And if we do meet again, let us drink together, and you can tell me another story of yours, and perhaps I'll have a good story to tell to you by that time.

>>11857650

Right now, it seems we're only "that one guy who I had a strong inkling to talk to for some reason whom I traded stories and drank with" to the Arm. I don't think we're exactly at the point where we can really ask to join forces with him and go smiting and/or nomming things.

>>11857673
>>Can you imagine how much effort it would take to turn our one paladin into thousands?
Yes, there would be difficulties. There will be difficulties in making any organization as obedient as we desire, but powerful enough to matter.

>>Personally, I'd much rather take over the cult.
You make this sound easy, but I doubt it will be that way. The cult is established in their belief and have had time for the current beliefs to be ingrained. Casting aside all of those beliefs to instead worship the doppleganger? No, that won't be easy. And how can we know how thorough we've been, or instead how many of the old guard are waiting for a chance to off us and return to the former beliefs? Kill all of them and you don't even have a cult.

Another thing: our position in the cult is tenuous. We give some commands that are obeyed now, but Karreesa can't or won't tell us any details about the big ritual coming up. And the cultists doing that aren't available for us to meet or eat. I suspect that is where the top brass lie, not at our level.

Keep in mind too, that this cult is not just a non-legitimate organization in society, but has been considered enough of a threat that the government has stepped in to stop them. The government, then, is aware of them, which is already a black mark. That they're willing to use force when there are other protective forces (the St. Cuthbert church; the Arm)--implying the government doesn't like stepping in--means that the cult is even a threat to our public discovery and safety. We'd have a difficult time of it, sure, with our abilities known to the public but the protection of a god well-known as Good. We'd have no chance if we were revealed and had strong associations with the cult--we'd be a monster at BEST.

>>11857919 cont why do I write so much?

>>A network of paladins is nice, but a cult that worships the very ground we walk on is much more appealing, and much more easier to control. And much more easier to create, since we already have one that just needs a little tidying up.
Just needs a little tidying up? I think it's going to take a lot of difficult changing, and not be as worthwhile as you expect. But this post is too long already and I've touched on it.

>>I appreciate that you're trying to tempt me, though.
Mostly, I just want to make you aware that there's not only a single path to having the kind of control you're looking for.

>>11857802
Better and I'd agree to it, but I'd really even prefer:
>A question before we part ways. Is it such a solitary path you lead? Does no one assist your efforts?

Broaches my question, gathers information if we get crosshairs on us by the forces of good, and sounds more caring than suspicious, I think.

>>11857828
A lot of people want us to take at least a step in that direction though.

>>11857919
The cult is small, as Karreesa has stated, and inducting new members would be easy if we could get control of the process, as all it would require is a tweaking of their beliefs so that we're the center, rather than the god-demon that they think we're a shard of. That is to say, right now they worship BigGod, and think we're a part of BigGod. If we choose, we can convince them that, while a shard, we are a shard that encompasses the BigGod's mind and drive; that is, the most integral part of BigGod, and that we deserve worship and treatment the same as if we were BigGod, because our ultimate goal is to gather BigGod's other shards and have them join our body.
Or something. I just thought that all up now, and it needs more ironing out the folds.

I will agree with one thing you touch on: Karreesa is an obstacle. She views us as a bratty little child of a king. That is, she must entertain us, and obey us, but she ultimately answers to the King, and her goal is to keep us entertained until the King returns to relieve her of babysitting duties.

We need to deal with her if we're to take over the cult. Even if we don't take over the cult, we could convert a few members after dealing with Karreesa however we'll deal with her, then take those members and start an offshoot cult. It'd put us at odds with the cult itself, and we'd ultimately have to eliminate it as an outside invader, but it would give our cult the reputation of being an offshoot, rather than just some strange 'guild' that sprung from no where.

But I digress.

A paladin guild really doesn't feel as if it'd work as nicely as a cult of us would, namely because they're all paladins or clerics. I want rogues, mages, barbarians, all kinds to worship us, not just one type of man with one set of skills.

>>11857802
>>Perhaps in a more noble setting, where it becomes dreadfully obvious when a person of importance is ignoring someone else to spite them, but otherwise not mentioning them just suggests to your ignorance of the subject, unless, as I've said, it is painfully obvious that you are ignoring their existence out of spite. What the clerics would do, if they wished for the populace to not hold the Arm in any esteem, is to immediately insult, badger, and ridicule him by spreading slanderous rumors.
Maybe, maybe not. We should find out what the thing to do in this setting is, which shouldn't be difficult to accomplish.

>>I agree with what you said of the cult, but what of our little girl? When she taunted and insulted the Arm, did he get angry? No, quite the contrary, he said that he was used to it.
>>Why would a respected paladin be used to being insulted by townspeople? Especially a paladin who is, as some has said, a "paladin done right', in that he does not just mindlessly smite evil, but takes into account circumstances and offers redemption to the willing.
From the prior thread:
>>"Right Arm of Heironeus they call you? More like the pathetic follower of a dying god!" the six year old shouts at him. Gaul looks at her and shrugs. "Yeah, it's something like that."
>>Really though, it didn't bother me. You get used to it. People might thank you for a couple days, and it's all the free drink you want--you can get some REALLY nice vintage that way, let me tell you--but after that they start getting nervous, and hope you'll move on. Sheep don't really like a sheepdog--he reminds them that there are wolves out there. And wolves are scary.
I think he's saying that he's gotten used to a general lack of gratitude among people for good deeds, not that everyone slanders him wherever he goes.

at this rate the thread will be up by the time temp dm is.

>>11857968
I don't like how you seem to add it as an afterthought...

Maybe, since we've not yet actually initiated departure, we can say something to the effect of,
>In your story, did you really haul all that holy water from the Church to the second floor of the house on your own? While being sneaky all the while to not get caught? Surely you have allies to help you, especially for a task so big as destroying a demon, no? Does no one ever assist your efforts?

Then he'll talk some more, and we can leave with
>Well, if you're about to leave, so shall I. If you're in town again and need some aid, feel free to call on me, even if it is just carrying casks of water. And if we do meet again, let us drink together, and you can tell me another story of yours, and perhaps I'll have a good story to tell to you by that time.

It lets us learn a little of his connections, and we slip in that we're offering to help him.
Unless you want to make adjustments.

>>11858057
Oh, good point....
Still, my belief stands. I find it highly doubtful that we could create a guild of paladins that would work so well as a network of cultist spies, and even if we could create a guild of paladins that would work as well as a network of cultist spies, it would require much more effort to gather paladins from all over to follow us than would be to simply turn a few fervent worshipers to worship us directly, rather than through mediums of Gods.

>>11858054
You've got good ideas. I bet that you could do as well planning on how to get at the command of an organization other than the cult if you tried.

The cult is small because its numbers were just drastically reduced by the government, and because they have to stay hidden. Not the best way to get an organization with real reach and heft to it.

Kareessa is a problem, but I wonder how many others will be like her.

>>A paladin guild really doesn't feel as if it'd work as nicely as a cult of us would, namely because they're all paladins or clerics. I want rogues, mages, barbarians, all kinds to worship us, not just one type of man with one set of skills.
Why should they all be paladins with only levels in the actual paladin class? Screw that, it's easy to not go that route. But again, the group with members of all types you're suggesting--is that for the flexibility of people who can assist us, or because you want to eat them? As I've said, I think we're getting soon to the point of diminishing returns from eating people, other than spellcasters. Have you noticed the general lack of high-powered individuals, and high-powered magic even more so, in this setting?

>>11858104
I like it very much. As I said a minute ago, you've got good ideas, especially when it comes to details, even if we aren't agreeing on the general sort of direction at the moment.

>>11858127
Harder to get a bunch of paladins, especially since we've heard of only one person who could really be called such? Maybe. But consider: there's a war with a nation led by liches just waiting to be touched off. I'm sure we could use that to facilitate our efforts.

>>11858076
At this rate we'll have had more posts of debating than the actual quest part of the thread had of gameplay.

>>11857919
Oh, I ignored the government issue.

Yes, that is a black mark, but would require us to get in high social status (by devouring and replacing, most like) in order to get in the seat with enough power to pull strings, making our cult ignored. This would allow our cult to act as a network of underground spies for us, while also giving us power and status above ground for various means.

>>11858136
You bring up many good points, I have to admit...

>The cult is small because [...]
Yes, and it will require that we take some governmental position of power before attempting to expand the cult. Of course, before we can do so monumental a task, we need the cult to be 100% loyal to us. Meaning that, if we choose, we will have to 'purge' the cult of infidels and past loyalties, and tie all strings to our fingers instead. We could probably start quite small, such as by asking Karreesa about how her candle system thing works, then snowball it from there, gaining more and more knowledge of the cult's anatomy until we learn pretty much everything about it.
As for those similar to Kareessa...There might be a few more 'elders' of the cult, yes...The only possible way I can think of in dealing with them is to gather them and kill them, starting with Kareessa (by taking her knowledge, then summoning the others either in groups or individually to eliminate them). A pity we aren't a changling...
>is that for the flexibility of people who can assist us, or because you want to eat them?
The former. Getting people to eat is easy, but getting people to help us in getting strong people to eat is more difficult. However, a thousand weaklings, properly controlled, can get a strong individual ripe for devouring. That said, I do not much care for allies as much as I do for servants and slaves. Quantity over quality, especially if quality better serves us by being in our stomach than by our side.

>>11858254
I agree that the high social status replacement would be a must, but short of top-level officials getting the cult swept under the rug could be difficult and/or dangerous. We'd have to have enough power and/or reputation as scary to make people not ask questions about why we're doing that. This poses its own issues: how to target and eat such a person accurately, how to personify them when we can choose only appearance, voice, or knowledge. We need all of those, and the knowledge must be of both personal behavior, past actions, AND anything the subject is an expert in.

At the point of being high up in government, /tg/ will find other things that press its interests more, I fear. Of course, at that point we'd have options which we didn't previously--the ability to task parts of the military, as an example.

>We could probably start quite small, such as by asking Karreesa about how her candle system thing works
What do you plan to do if/when she doesn't tell us?

>Of course, before we can do so monumental a task, we need the cult to be 100% loyal to us.
Hmmm. This will take time, and effort. But if we press fully with the cult, can we afford that time instead of getting in the role of a high official? We have at least two priority tasks that cannot wait with this objective.

>>11858426
Well, what I was thinking was to learn about the cult as much as possible, then try to get into politics, as it were, to ensure that our cult stays underground and secretive, then going back to focus on the cult again and try to expand their numbers. That is, focus would switch from cult, to high social status, to cult again, and probably back to high social status, as we would have a fully mature cult of spies and such at our disposal, we could focus on our political clout and try to get adventurers and such people to come to us.

The main reason I do not like the idea of having a paladin guild is because they would act on honor and duty, as opposed to, say, a guild of rogues that acts on pure self-interest and greed. Or, a cult that acts on pure devotion and worship.
We could, and I've just thought this, we could try to play Varys, of sort, and attempt to create a network of spies and such rabble for us through monetary payment, but that would require us to have immense amounts of money, but it is another option should we decide to focus more on politics and less on cultists.

>>11858569
Small problems with politics: How do we maintain our diet without alerting anyone to the replacement (and I just mean amount of food, the lack of new traits during that time would be its own issue)? How do we make a convincing substitute when we can choose only a single option of the required appearance, voice, and knowledge?

We could manage with only appearance with enough cleverness and excuses, but staying in power and control while doing so is a major problem. The big issue is, of course, our big diet.

>>The main reason I do not like the idea of having a paladin guild is because they would act on honor and duty, as opposed to, say, a guild of rogues that acts on pure self-interest and greed. Or, a cult that acts on pure devotion and worship.
There's a lot to be said for honor, duty, and loyalty in followers. For instance, they're reliable. The self-interest and greed doesn't strike me as superior in any way. The devotion to the doppleganger, yes.

Keep in mind, a lot of the problems you're seeing in having the group loyal to the doppleganger can be solved by having a bit of flexibility in how we conduct ourselves and attempt to see our goals.

>>We could, and I've just thought this, we could try to play Varys, of sort, and attempt to create a network of spies and such rabble for us through monetary payment, but that would require us to have immense amounts of money, but it is another option should we decide to focus more on politics and less on cultists.
So, get into the organized crime structure?

>>11858254
>>That said, I do not much care for allies as much as I do for servants and slaves. Quantity over quality, especially if quality better serves us by being in our stomach than by our side.
So you want to go the entirely selfish route at best, and the evil route more likely (keep in mind, this is /tg/)?

I disagree firmly here. I'm a bit sick of the lolCHAOTICSELFISH that /tg/ tends to do in its quests. Let's be the good guy for a change. Especially now, in a quest that's been this awesome. Let's leave a lasting mark on the land more than a trail of bodies and shattered homes. Let's achieve godhood with entire nations cheering the event. Let's make this quest something we remember fondly when it's over, about how we got shit done, and a world was better off for it.

We could be great, or we could pull ourselves down into a meaningless existence by our own pettiness and selfishness.

>>11858745
There's no need to be chaotic. I hate chaotics. There's nothing wrong with being evil, but chaos, I will agree, is boring.

>>11858661
Warriors that fight for honor, duty, are disgusting. I do not recall where I heard it from, but mercenaries that fight out of a sense of loyalty and honor will likely try to even the playing field between them and their enemy to make it more honorable. No, I take that back, I just remembered where I read that.

>I will only employ bounty hunters who work for money. Those who work for the pleasure of the hunt tend to do dumb things like even the odds to give the other guy a sporting chance.

Rogues that care solely for profit are much better to employ, especially if given the stipulation that, if anyone tries to 'outbuy' them, you'll offer double if they tell you who it was that that tried to buy them. There is no force more loyal than greed and desire for profit.

As for how we eat, we can likely, as a noble, visit prisons for a time, until we have the strength in followers to lure adventurers to us, such as by way of a bounty on a particular creature in the sewers, only to have that creature be our cultists and us waiting to ambush the adventurers. Something like that.
For example, we could import animals, then, after those animals were mysteriously eaten by a sewer beast, put a bounty on the beast, and for any adventurers wanting to claim the bounty, give them the descriptions (as from an expert tracker) that the beast is big, strong, and very fast from eyewitness accounts, and seemed to have dragged the bodies of the animals away with him back into the sewers.

Or something elaborate like that.

>>11859387
> Warriors that fight for honor, duty, are disgusting. I do not recall where I heard it from, but mercenaries that fight out of a sense of loyalty and honor will likely try to even the playing field between them and their enemy to make it more honorable.

Except Gaul didn't. If you'll recall, he used trickery to ensure that his "fight" with the demon was anything but fair. He's honorable and does his duty without desire for reward, but he's not stupid.

>>11859387
>>Warriors that fight for honor, duty, are disgusting. I do not recall where I heard it from, but mercenaries that fight out of a sense of loyalty and honor will likely try to even the playing field between them and their enemy to make it more honorable.
Tell that to a soldier and he'll laugh in your face. Just because you're an honorable person who's loyal to his own doesn't mean you won't take advantage of every tactical benefit you can find, and then go make some more just in case.
>>Rogues that care solely for profit are much better to employ, especially if given the stipulation that, if anyone tries to 'outbuy' them, you'll offer double if they tell you who it was that that tried to buy them. There is no force more loyal than greed and desire for profit.
Except when it comes down to getting the mission done at risk to your own life. You can't buy that kind of loyalty, because everyone knows that if you die, money becomes worthless.

>>As for how we eat, we can likely, as a noble, visit prisons for a time
Yes, because no one will ever get suspicious of our sudden desire to go visit the scum of the earth.

>>11859387
Assuming you're the same guy who's been the primary promoter of siding with/using the cult, this post was not up to your usual quality.

What is it about becoming human that's so entrancing, when we could be so much more?

I quote, from the first thread:
"You open your eyes in a dank alleyway. It's a couple of hours after nightfall. You're in a city of some sort- probably not one of the most respectable- with no memory of how you came to be here.
You DO remember what you are. You are a blank slate, an example of limitless potential. You will survive. You will consume. You will adapt. You will grow. Given half a chance, you could be a god. But for now, you are frail, and realize that discretion is a must."

What I'm saying is simple. We have, in the short term, a great deal to gain from remaining allies with the cult. If we wait a short time we should start seeing some tangible benefits from it like high level members of the cult, wealth, items and such. However, if they keep us on the hook but don't deliver, this is an indication they could turn against us and it might not be a bad idea to wipe them out.


I'm also thinking that the devourer this cult is wishing to summon is going to be looking to devour us. This is probably something we don't want to happen, as we might die. Allying with Gaul makes sense for this, though I can't help but wonder if we could take his connection to Heironeous if we ate him.

Also, do realize there is plenty of nasty stuff around us which we could easily go after in clean conscience. The woods, the sewer, and the underworld all come to mind. One thing is certain, we will consume, and grow, because that is jack's destiny.

tl/dr
loot the cult, survive, NOM

>>11859733
>Tell that to a soldier and he'll laugh in your face. Just because you're an honorable person who's loyal to his own doesn't mean you won't take advantage of every tactical benefit you can find, and then go make some more just in case.
That's because honor is dead.

>>11859675
Yes, but we aren't talking about Gaul. We're talking about a guild of paladins. Unless you aim to get a guild of paladins that are just like Gaul, which would make it even harder.

>>11859733
>Except when it comes down to getting the mission done at risk to your own life.
Good point, cultists are the best choice, then.

Beside, there's no reason why a noble can't go walk around town. Hell, we ate one that did. We'd have to be careful not to be seen, but we're doing pretty good with that as it is.

>>11860393
No. But the meaning of honor has changed.

>>11858745
+1 to this.

>>11860455
> Good point, cultists are the best choice, then.

Except the cultists are actually fanatically loyal to someone else, and are only working for us right now because they've mistaken us for that someone. They'll turn on us the moment they wise up. Also, the cult has zero social legitimacy, they'd be no better at operating in the open than we would be.

Stop getting all excited about the cult, just because they're stroking your ego right now doesn't make them reliable.

>>11858745
I wish, but judging by the posting here, /tg/ just isn't interested in anything except going all out evil, OM NOMing everything in sight, using people purely for our own ends, then betraying and eating them, all the while claiming to be neutral.

>>11861026
No, there's a split camp. Some of the players want that, sure, and they've been posting here. But look at the side that they've been contesting the issue with; and look at the voting yesterday about what to do about the paladin (when we called off the ambush). There's a BIG chunk of players, at least half if not more, who are ready to ditch the chaotic evil kill/betray/use/eat cycle. There's a bunch of people who want to find redemption, ally with Gaul, and change our alignment to Awesome Good.

Alright my turn.

>>11860371
I'm for something like this. Stay somewhat true to the doppelgangers origins, feed on that which is strong, regardless of whether it is sentient or not, and add their strengths to our own.

I don't want a network. No cult or order of paladins or noble title that we use to bring the food to us. I'd like, maybe 5 or 6 people we can trust. People who, like Claire, know and accept us for what we are. Who will travel with us across many different lands as we seek to improve our self. And if Gaul happened to be one of these people, I wouldn't mind.

I fully support the idea that our current alignment is in the area of Chaotic Neutral. I think it fits us best for the moment, and I really wish people would stop judging the doppelganger as if it was a human, with years of human experiences, who suddenly gained strange and disturbing powers. The doppelganger is creature with an alien thought process who hasn't even been alive for more that a month yet. It hasn't had the time to truly become humanized by it's interactions with the other sentient beings it associates with. The doppelganger is still very immature and I believe that the Chaotic Neutral alignment showcases that immaturity best.

So this is my stance and this is what I'll be pushing for. We get a few more things from the cult and then we see about setting it up for destruction, and hopefully take out the bodysnatcher along with it (I'm convinced it is the real splinter), and then we leave the city with Claire to find someplace new. Whether we ally with Gaul to destroy the cult and whether we reveal our true nature to him doesn't matter to me. I'll decide where to throw my vote based on the situation we are in at the time.

> I fully support the idea that our current alignment is in the area of Chaotic Neutral.

Seeking out and murdering innocent people purely for personal gain is textbook neutral evil. Claiming that it's chaotic neutral is classic That Guy behavior. I would have thought /tg/ was above that, but apparently not.

We officially have had more debate about the doppleganger's morality and future actions this thread than actual game posts.

I don't know if I've seen this much debate and speculation about a quest (not just the morality/alignment bit either) since Ruby Quest, /tg/.

>>11863081
Tau Quest was pretty close for a while

>>11863360
To be fair, I don't think any quest other than Tau Quest has had enough fanart to rival Ruby Quest. Let alone quality fan art.

>>11861887
Why don't you want a network?

>>11862583
Some of us are above that. I've read both sides of this thread, and I agree that we should abandon the CN/CE ways now that we've been offered an alternative.

>>11866661
What makes you think we've been offered an alternative? Maybe people have finally noticed "Darren's" (remember him? We're using his face.) odd behavior and become suspicious? Honestly I'm surprised it's taken so long, seeing as the man does have a family that he hasn't seen visited in days. Anyway the arm said he isn't sure what he's after in the city but who's to say that's the truth? We do not know if our identity has been compromised. We do not know if the Arms purpose in calling us over was merely to size up his enemy. We don't know whether or not the city guard has picked up Claire and thrown her into a jail cell while we've been occupied with the arm and the cult, and we don't know if they are currently sitting outside the tavern in force waiting for the Arm to give a signal or lead us out.

Seriously, what the fuck is with you people! We have known the guy for all an hour maybe? A man who kills and, if his story was true, tricks things far more skilled at deception than we are, and you want to reveal everything about us to him? What reason do we have to trust this man?

You are more likely to get us killed, than to get us accepted by society.

>>11862583

Seeking out innocent creatures and eating them is also textbook behavior for animals with prey instinct. We grow and thrive depending on the creatures we eat. We are not eating people to deprive them of life or for sadistic pleasure, they are simply food. It was (or possibly, still is) no more evil for the doppelganger to eat people than it is for a wolf to kill and devour a deer.

On the other hand, as someone said, we are still very young and immature, but not for much longer. We are now very much a sentient being and we are developing a moral code and have more feeling for people than merely viewing them as food, tools, or obstacles on the way to food. If we continue eating innocent people despite being able to empathize with them as fellow sentient beings, it shows that we are evil. I don't believe eating people who are evil, or who attack us unprovoked, would ever be an evil act for us... it is merely survival and growth.

As things stand now, from our recent actions, I would say we're either Neutral or Chaotic Neutral because, let's face it, we have a decidedly Chaotic bent to our actions. A few more Evil acts and we'll probably be Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil. Luring thieves into a trap only to be devoured is evil, even if they aren't exactly saints themselves.

I'm against allying with the paladin. I think it's unwise, as he would not agree with us eating humanoids, regardless of whether or not said humanoid is evil or was killed in self-defense. He may not even particularly like what we have done in the past, or what we are.

He would be an incredibly difficult opponent if we choose to go against him. It would probably take Claire, the bodysnatcher, and one or two people from our cult to take him down, and would probably drop us to being Evil.

The only way I could see allying with the paladin being worth it is if we gradually get him used to the idea of us being "different" and that we've done bad things in the past but we're repentant, much like we did Claire, and forming an adventuring party with him and Claire and searching for horrible monsters to nom. The idea would be nothing short of fucking weird and it would be hard to keep him happy. Claire may not agree to it.

Otherwise, the best way for us to grow and survive would be to ease Claire into being Evil and nomming our way across the world with our cult, devouring all who stand in our way. This is the option I prefer, as I think it would be too difficult to keep a paladin happy, being what we are.

>>11868688

Another reason why to not ally with the paladin?

If we tell him what we are, he will eventually learn about all the killing we've done, and even if we're repentant for what we've done, he'll want us to stand trial for our crimes. We will be found guilty and probably executed.

No paladin in his right mind would let a monster who has murdered go free, no matter the reason.

>prey instinct

I meant to say predator.

>Whenever you eat a creature you acquire one of its traits

>>11868741
Have you read this quest, or did you just see "paladin" and start making assumptions? This paladin's code is "Protect the Innocent. Redeem the Willing. Smite the Wicked." Notice that REDEEM THE WILLING bit? If we're repentant for our past actions, and stop killing people (who, practically, are getting less and less useful to us when getting traits), we should be fine

>>11868672
> We are not eating people to deprive them of life or for sadistic pleasure, they are simply food. It was (or possibly, still is) no more evil for the doppelganger to eat people than it is for a wolf to kill and devour a deer.

Except that the reason a wolf is still considered neutral evil is because A) it doesn't really have much choice and B) is not sapient. Neither of those apply to us. We're not killing and eating people because we have to in order to survive. We could potentially survive without doing that. We're doing it for personal gain. Neutral evil doesn't require sadism, it just requires that you be a selfish bastard you murders people purely for their own benefit.

>>11868672
> We grow and thrive depending on the creatures we eat. We are not eating people to deprive them of life or for sadistic pleasure, they are simply food.

Imagine if a PC said, after murdering dozens of random people on the street and looting them, "Hey, I didn't murder all those people to deprive them of life or out of sadistic pleasure, I did it because I wanted their money." Imagine if he then claimed to still be neutral rather than evil by arguing that he's just doing what a wolf does.

Damn, this thread has lasted surprisingly long.

>>11871135
Who's winning the "let's be good/evil" debate?

>>11871843
It's an argument on the internet. Everyone loses.

>>11871843
I think there's more people who want the doppleganger to be good.

OH MY GOD I THOUGHT THIS DIED SQUEEEEE

>>11871853
This thread hasn't been an argument really, though. It's been remarkably calm and each side has given reasoning for their position much more elaborate than "good/evil sucks." I don't think anyone has lost.

>>11871961
Nope, check the archive; we had a friggin awesome thread the other day. This thread was meh by the quest's usual standards but TempDM was tired enough to crash in the middle of it.

>>11871947
Not that it matters. It's much quicker and easier to spam "EAT HIM" than it is to write out a non-evil post. So it doesn't matter if there are more people who want to be good, it's much easier for the people who want to be evil (which they believe is just chaotic neutral) to get their way. Plus, for the people who want to be good to take Jack in that direction they have to consistently win the race to post, whereas the evil people only have to get through one or two "EAT HIM" choices and, if they're innocent people, that will outweigh what the people who want to be good are doing.

>>11872287
tl;dr: It's much easier to be evil than good, so Jack is going to be evil no matter what.

>>11872287
But TempDM doesn't base player decisions off of the first post.

>>11872382
He bases it off a number of votes following his post. It's usually something like "here are some options, the next seven posts decide what happens." All the people who want to be evil need to do is spam simple things like "EAT HIM" in order to get their way, so the fact that the people who want to be good outnumber them doesn't actually matter.

>>11872407
And yet, the last vote (about the ambush) had the people hoping for Jack to be good winning handily.

>>11872467
And as I said earlier, that won't matter either. The people who want Jack to be evil only have to win some of the time, while the people who want Jack to be good need to win consistently. Suppose we decide not to brutally murder and eat an innocent person for a relatively minor trait because the people who want Jack to be good win out in that decision. Now suppose we do that two more times. Now, imagine if for the fourth person the people who want Jack to be evil get their way, and we brutally murder an innocent person for the sake of a minor trait. Now repeat this over a longer period of time. You have a person who willfully murders innocent people in one out of every four opportunities he gets. Is this person good or evil?

In this case, being evil is a lot easier than being good.

>>11872549
I imagine if there is a general push for Jack to be good, then the available options will be presented appropriately. If there is only a minority wanting evil, then options like "EAT HIM" will be dismissed as out of character.

> the available options will be presented appropriately.
> options like "EAT HIM" will be dismissed as out of character.

So you moralfags actually want TempDM to railroad us around? Fucking moralfags, shitting up everything on this board and forcing your childish white knight fantasies on the rest of us. Can't you leave anything alone? This was a good quest until you idiots came parading in here and started fapping over the big strong paladin WHO IS TRYING TO KILL US. Seriously, who would ever chose a paladin over a cult that worships us and would do anything we want? Idiots and moralfags, but then I repeat myself.

>>11872407
Actually the people who want good don't outnumber the ones who want evil. You guys are just being backed by people who want to maintain some semblance of neutrality at the moment. Cause there is no question that if we continue with the cult like we have been it'll be all evil all the time.

>>11872741
You idiot. Don't you see the significance of the cults rituals? They cut a pair of twins in half and sew the halve together. There's a pic of what that looks like somewhere in the archives.

Know what that means for us? We are expected to merge with other splinters. The next ceremony is either going to call down another splinter, which we will then be expected/forced to merge with. Or it'll be about merging us with the bodysnatcher, who they may have already located.

Sticking with the cult will get us killed. No question.

>>11872741
1) Not railroading so much as saying "are you sure?" when people try to spam something that the majority don't want. Or some other method to keep the minority from spamming something dumb.
2) The paladin is not trying to kill us. Stop sensationalizing things.
3) "EAT HIM" is out of character if it's going to screw us over in the long run and if we've gotten more morality than a dog.
4) LOLCHAOTICEVIL IS SO EDGY, GUISE!

>>11872858
Counting it up, it's looking like people who want Jack as a person over Jack as an animal. Furthermore, I could start dismissing people who want the evil route for various reasons, but that would lower the level of debate (until recently, remarkably high) in this thread.

>>11872960
>2) The paladin is not trying to kill us. Stop sensationalizing things.

Are you sure? The guy apparently pulled a fast one on a devil, I don't think conning an immature doppelganger would be too hard for him.

>Counting it up, it's looking like people who want Jack as a person over Jack as an animal.

What's your count at? How do you tell whether someone's a samefag or not?

>>11873135
We would get a sense motive check, or it would be railroading.

There's no surefire way to know if samefagging is going on, but based on writing/posting style, and to a lesser extent timing, you can get a good idea.

You guys... holy shit, you guys.

>>11874061
You didn't see this coming?

>>11874115
Not THIS MANY POSTS. Nor something that was more than a rapid devolution into Godwin's Law.

Hang on, counting. Then I just need to get one or two things done and the new thread can start.

>>11874181
YOU HAVE MY SWORD!

Hey, did you guys ever rescue that wizardess in training, Claire?

(Also, I'm throwing my support behind working with the Paladin)

>>11874412
Yup. Dunno what she's doing atm though.

>>11874412
Yes. It was a while ago, but it was probably the most epic thread we had.

>>11874439
Sleeping after copying down books for us, and putting spells into her spellbook.

Votes counted, current felt. Looks like /tg/ wants to see what altruism has to offer. New thread:

>>11874640