I personally liked Outsider: The Calling.

And just in case you aren't who I think you are, me and another guy did our best to compile everything relevant from the first few threads into one Google Document. This is an incredibly rough first draft, and everything is up for change.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hDIbVMLjGNKBgjDcyvrvKqkIMh3lWhj6HSldYPYwW0s/edit?hl=en&authk
ey=CMmy_NwK

>>13254444
Not who you think I am, apparently.

Ah, well, thank you for saving me some time then. Looks like you guys did a pretty fine job.

Anyways, guess this is just another general discussion or on it's way to 404. Either way.

>>13254505
I'm the otherguy, stop by #Alientheoutsider on sup/tg/, we need all the help we can get.

Also, I should probably post a rough tl;dr so people know what we're talking about.

Alien: The Outsider is a World of Darkness splat, in which the Player Characters are normal human beings who have been changed by the alien forces of the Cthulhu Mythos. Whether they were born by cosmic accident to fulfil Nyarlathotep's plan, or whether they stumbled upon Yog-Sothoth in an ancient and forbidden tome, it doesn't matter. What matters is that now they are half-human, half-Something-Else. They're tied to their alien Gods, and now there's no going back.

It's up to them whether they fight the alien side and struggle to remain human, or embrace the power it offers, but face the fact that reality itself will try its best to wipe you out. And then there's the issue of whether you'll serve the Thing that made you this way, or try to ignore that Calling in the back of your head.

Outsider:The Bound.

Where is my medal.

>>13254552

It's just in this box bro. Open it, I can't open it for you.

aaand bump
need Ideas for Rejections & Rituals, preferably low powered so we can test things sooner rather than later

I would go for Outsider: The Calling too.

>>13254841
>for Outsider: The Calling
This one seems to be the popular choice.

IA! IA!

Well I don't exactly see what exactly is the "Calling" part of it. It just seems like you were Chosen or something, not "Called."

Maybe I'm just not seeing it, I like the ring it has to it, but from the snippet you gave us, nothing seems "Called."

There's my two cents.

>>13256999

Maybe you're right. It just sounded right to me. I guess the urge to embrace the alien and do what you believe the God wants you to do could be a calling. Maybe part of the penalty of low Quiescence could be finding it harder to avoid doing what you think the God wants.

IÄ! IÄ! CTHULHU FHTAGN!

Not on the list, but I would like Outsider: the Nameless. Unspeakable is also fine. Basically any word which Lovecraft enjoyed abusing.

>>13257119

Nah, that kind of rule is hard to enforce and stifles RP.

I personally like Outsider: The Quiescent. THE TITLE DOTH BRING TO MIND THOSE MOST ANCIENT GIBBOUS THINGS, NIGHTMARES FROM WHEN ALL LIFE WAS A PRIMORDIAL OOZE; SHUB-NIGGURATH, YOG-SOTHOTHE, YE SHOGGOTHS AND THE MOST FEARED OF ALL THINGS THAT LIE BEYOND YON FAR SPHERES: CTHULHU, LORD OF ALL, WHO LIES DREAMING IN HIS SUNKEN CITY.

I had a big typeup on what rejections can and cannot do in a very short-lived thread yesterday, but apparently the prose was thick and wasn't enjoyable, but I didn't save it because i had a big case of the dumb. Anyone else see that, or was that thread archived?

Outsider: The Changed?

I'd like a more Lovecraftian word, but I can't really think of any that fit.

>>13257342
> was that thread archived?
Not on Sup/tg/

>>13257400

ah-hah, I found it. Shall I post the lot (after som eedititng, as i've spotted a mistake allready)? It's not that great, even in my mind, but well, it's fluff, and fluff is fluff is at least a starting point, yeah?

>>13257342

http://archive.easymodo.net/cgi-board.pl/tg/thread/13232956#p13234350

Fear not, from the forbidden depths of the internet, I call upon thee Easy'modo, Haunter in the Dark!

>>13257446

Fire away. We're still in the stage of settling on what exactly everything means, so everything's welcome.

PLEASE HAVE A HUNTER CONSPIRACY OF SHERLOCK HOLMES LIKE DETECTIVES AND ALIEN HUNTERS!!!

Right then. Here we go.

"Reject Reality. Obtain Cookies."

Rejections can do many things. In fact, there's very little they can't do. You can know a rejection that will turn you into a giant, squamous behemoth able to readily devour your foes, or a rejection able to rip out a man's sanity and replace with the cacophonous wails of the damned. That's a good conversation starter at parties, I hear, but I don't go to those sorts of parties because no one invites me.

So let's go over what a Rejection can't do, hmm?

They can't follow the laws of reality. No melting ice, boiling water, or turning one thing into another of the same mass. They have to break some law. They have to REJECT reality. Hence the name.

Sure, you can turn a stone into a loaf of bread of the same size, o Moses of the Pharaoh. But the trick's in the mass--you study Einstein at all? Energy equals mass times the speed of light squared. But that's something we can Reject, eh? We turn the stone to bread, and it's done--bread's lighter than stone, has less mass, it's fine.

But say you want to turn a hunk of lead into... I dunno, a piece of gold with the same mass. No can do.

Now, if you wanted to turn that hunk of lead into a piece of gold infused with the power of the Dreamlands, or one that would bring about mutagenic wrath that would make Shub-Niggurath blush, that's fine, because you're imbuing it with powers that reject reality.

Now that the rant's out the way, how's about we try some out, youngster? Hold onto your butt, 'cause things are about to get Real.

See what I did there? Always had a soft spot for puns.

>>13257507

Oh, you want more information first? Eh, your type always does. Okay, generally speaking you can split up rejections into two broad categories. General, and Cult. General rejections are easy enough to learn for any of us, and come in two categories.

First you have Alteration. The art of changing one thing to another. Not hard to grasp.

Second you have Manipulation. The art of changing something's state. Also easy. The different cults all have different names for these things, but that's not important.

Now, each cult has it's own Mystery--what they call their groups of linked Rejections all based around the conceptual space of their patron.

Courtiers of the Black Pharaoh, those deluded fools belonging to the masked man Nyarlahotep, practice what they call the Mystery of the Masks and Dreams, which manipulates the raw dreamstuff of reality to give them various Masks. These things tend to last awhile, and they're easy to switch out, but they're a bit expensive and aren't very generalist.

>>13257514

Starspawned Savants, those ugly fishy fuckers that worship Cthulhu and his ilk, Dagon and Hydra? They practice the Mystery of the Deeps and Sleep, able to do things like have out of body experiences while asleep and exist out of phase with reality. They also get alot of powers based around the water, for obvious reasons.

Shephards of the Silver Key, those fractured psychotics of Yog-Sothoth? They practice the Mystery of the Gate and Sphere, prancing through the Threshold to travel to places and times, and linking up with their so-called otherselves to learn and do things they normally couldn't.

The Young of the Thousand, those perverse and feral followers of Shub-Niggurath, practice the Mystery of Life and Claw. They can mutate their bodies in ways others can barely even conceive of, and they can summon up minor, even major servants of their patron without the need for long, hard rituals. Big deal, that.

Scions of the Yellow Sign, those confused and utterly mad followers of Hastur? They follow the Mystery of Madness. Simple name, simple powers. THey manipulate raw madness, the stuff that empowers most, if not all of it. Causing it, curing it, ignoring it, harnessing it. If it deals with Madness, they can do it.

No, I'm not gonna tell you which of those I am. That's a bad idea, and I didn't get this far by doing bad ideas.

Okay, well, maybe a few. But not many.

>>13254394
Outsider: the Calling

Because the Stars are once again Right, and the things that have gone and will go Beyond are drawn here by the sound of seven billion minds raised in chorus.

>>13257523

And that's it, folks. Thoughts, opinions, tearing it apart like some fresh corpse?

>>13257514
>General, and Cult.
General and Sect
otherwise it's golden.

>>13257542
Also I like how you wrote it to sound like crazed old man.

>>13257473

They can go in the antagonist section, along with WoD-ified Delta Green and Miskatonic U. And then suggest ties between them and proper Hunter groups.

>>13257588

D'oh, figured I'd miss something. Ah well, just one word.

And yeah, I was aiming for crazy old mentor figure as the voice, glad to hear it got across like that.

Something we talked about on IRC is a common abilty for all Outsiders. Sacrificing 1 point of Quiescence the PC can assume his Quiescence 00 form for a limited time, with exact bonuses depending on the Sect.
Like Demon: The Fallen's Apocalyptic forms.

I'd second The Bound, it seems the most story appropriate, and suitable style according to your description 'They're tied to their alien Gods, and now there's no going back.' Calling would be a more specific character design, and I rather like to avoid describing things with -ings in the first place.

>>13257866

Problem with The Bound is that Sin-Eaters are already called the Bound. I'm sure that confusion could never cause hilarious circumstances.

>>13257697

I like that idea, actually. Maybe more than just a dot of quiescence, though that is a big cost... hrm. It'll need thinking on.

>>13258924

Well, it'd probably involve paying Madness as well (Madness being our fuel stat, like Glamour for Changelings).

Oh hey, thread not completely dead?
>>13258924
It seems that it'd work as a good alternative to summoning if the quintessence form is that strong.

A system that comes to me is that you'd spend all of your Madness (or up to a maximum cost) but the length of the change increases exponentially for the amount.
You could also include the option to change back, like a drop of quintessence and the madness that hasn't been spent by time.

Though, this rather limits its usage as an all or nothing thing, they already would have other options, and I thought it would just be interesting

>>13262906
I wouldn't use it as an alternative to summoning. Quiescence should be pretty hard to regain once lost thus it would function as a panic button; throwing the kitchen sink at the enemy so to speak.

>>13263094

I'd agree on the summoning front. I'd really like to keep the potential there for Outsiders to summon stuff to help them out. There was a system suggested in the IRC, but I can't for the life of me remember it. Something along the lines of an exponential madness cost based on the Mythos of the entity you were summoning. Outsiders would get bonuses to summoning entities related to their God.

Only problem is that making summoning too important would turn the game into Pokethulu, with Outsiders just summoning monsters at each other until one ran out of Madness.

I'm putting my comments in-document. Generally, I'm not trying to organize the thing at all, but correcting for flow and feel.

>>13263713
>There was a system suggested in the IRC, but I can't for the life of me remember it.

That is why it's in the file. :P

>>13263713
You can't summon too darn much before the army gets called in.

Oh yes, Sieg Grammar! I've been editing punctuation too.

Let's see if I can help fill in some blanks here:

Starspawn <No Change>
Quiescence 10: Completely normal
Quiescence 05: Enlarged head, grayish green skin, tentacle like protrusions on the face, wing stumps on the back.
Quiescence 00: Mini Cthulhu

Shepard of the Silver Key <Changed to fit Dunwich Horror better>
Quiescence 10: Slightly odd gait
Quiescence 05: Taller than an average human, legs are replaced by tentacles but can be disguised, extra mouths and faces begin to appear on some parts of the body
Quiescence 00: A long massive horror, invisible unless exposed to silver, with many faces and legs, also have an incorporeal form of glowing bubbles of light similar to Yog Sothoth's, mind begins to partly overlap his.

Young of the Thousand <No Change>
Quiescence 10: Prominent canines, arms somewhat longer in proportion to the body.
Quiescence 05: Arms are now tentacles, additional mouths appear
at random places on the body. Goat like legs.
Quiescence 00: Shoggoth

Courtiers of the Black Pharaoh <All new>
Quiescence 10: Have a single black mark hidden on the body somewhere symbolizing bond to the pharaoh
Quiescence 05: Become gaunt in facial appearance, hair begins to resemble tentacles under scrutiny, skin color darkens to a shade of gray
Quiescence 00: Become a large writhing mass of tentacles with a single mask floating within from which your senses emanate, anything you consume adds mass to your 'body'

Scion of the Yellow Sign <Changed order>
Quiescence 10:Blind, able to sense surroundings out to 25 feet
Quiescence 05: waxy, melty face, eyes are always closed and nose is sunken, slight aura of panic surrounds you
Quiescence 00: No eyes, no nose, just a mouth under a hood that looks like a mask. Rest of body is barely corporeal, long cloak of tattered golden color flows behind you. Any spoken words are in an ancient tongue that is harmful to non-outsiders.

Oh hi guys, Stephen Alzis here, just being a perfect example of Mythos 10 Quiescence 10.

Thinking about Alzis and, Omar Shakti as well, gave me an idea for a Rejection...

Undying Servitude
Courtier of the Dark Pharaoh Rejection
Cost: 3 Madness

Nyarlathotep does not so easily discard his pawns as to let mere Earthly death stand in the way of his schemes. Should one of his Outsiders die before his work his done, Nyarlathotep arranges for the resurrection of the Outsider.

The Outsider must activate this rejection at the start of every day, paying its madness cost anew. Should the Outsider die, by the next morning, he will come back to life, either in the old body or, should that prove unreliable, in a new one, unharmed. This Rejection does not bring back an Outsider killed due to Quiescence.

>>13264340
Young of the Thousand <No Change>
>Quiescence 10: Prominent canines, arms somewhat longer in proportion to the body.
>Quiescence 05: Arms are now tentacles, additional mouths appear at random places on the body. Goat like legs.
>Quiescence 00: Shoggoth

Ermmm...
Shouldn't that end with Dark Young not Shoggoth?

>>13264507
Yes, Stephen Alzis and Omar are a perfect example of Courtiers of the Black Phantom.

Interesting idea on the ritual, a form of insurance, but I'm not sure how well it fits the cost... Might have to be higher rank as well.

>>13264533
That would make more sense.

>>13264533
Yeah, it definitely should.

>>13264533
>>13264560
3rd

>>13264545

I'm terrible with assigning numbers to things. I'm a concepts and fluff guy. I'll leave the actual nitty-gritty of what numbers to apply to people who are actually good at that.

I think making it so that it requires a fairly high Madness cost daily should ensure that only properly powerful cultists of Nyarlathotep can reliably carry it out. Courtiers who try to keep a low profile and remain human won't stand a chance.

And that reminds me, I'm still not sure about Courtiers of the Black Pharaoh as the best name for that group. I think Favoured Ones, as in "Father of the Million Favoured Ones" is a better, more general title.

>>13264594
>"Father of the Million Favoured Ones"
Yeah, but then is starts to sound too similar to Shub-Niggurath and Nyarly has a bunch of different names to chose from.

As the anon who suggested Alien: The Outsider back in the first thread, I would like to throw my support behind Outsider: The Calling. Later, we can describe exactly what a Calling is and means to PCs, sort of that nameless need to begin the works that serve the Elder Gods.

Ooh, ooh, what about Outsider: The Doomed.

Because one way or the other, whether by getting their throat ripped out by a guard dog, or shot to death by investigators, or by actually winning and bringing their God to Earth, Outsiders are doomed. They've been doomed from the start.

>>13264777
Could work, since Doom can also be interpreted as an inescapable destiny, but with a name like Outsider: The Doomed the first thing that comes to mind is an emo cutting his wrist (sooo deeep).

So I was just thinking back, and trying to make a list of all the Lovecraft characters and Call of Cthulhu characters in general who we might co-opt as Outsiders.

The Whately brothers are obvious ones, though one has far lower Quiescence and higher Mythos than the other.

The protagonist in The Outsider, funnily enough.

Stephen Alzis, as has previously been mentioned.

The Masters of the Cult of Transcendence have clearly found a way to negate the effects of high Mythos, low Quiescence.

The Spawn of Nyarlathotep from the Kenya chapter of Masks of Nyarlathotep, possibly using a Rejection that lets itself appear human.

Those high-up priests of Shub-Niggurath who appear half-goat-like could easily be Outsiders.

Randolph Carter, I think, was suggested as an Outsider linked to Yog-Sothoth.

Does this have a 1d4chan article yet? Because it really should.

>>13265240
Now we have a list of NPC to stat for the final pages of the book, cool. :)

I prefer Outsider: the Alien. It sums up the topic well. Alien can refer to the outer beings that Players have a relationship with, as well as describing things that are "alien" to human reality. Nice double meaning.

>>13265283
Not yet.
(Mostly because those of us working on this don't know shit about editing a wiki page)

>>13265240

Beyond the Walls of Sleep had several characters who interacted with strange entities. They could be connected with the Ypg Sothoth faction

>>13254394
Outsider: The Transcendent

>>13265336
Ill try and get on a wiki page this weekend.

Perhaps our ability schools could be variations of the psionic schools from D&D (which were based around outsiders in the setting anyways)? Even if not copied directly they could serve as good inspiration to add or subtract from.

Clairsentience - enable you to learn secrets long forgotten, to glimpse the immediate future and predict the far future, to find hidden objects, and to know what is normally unknowable
Metacreativity - create objects, creatures, or some form of matter
Metapsionics - generally augment other psionic powers, although the discipline also contains some utility powers
Psychokinesis - manipulate energy or tap the power of the mind to produce a desired end
Psychometabolism - change the physical properties of some creature, thing, or condition
Psychoportation - move the manifester, an object, or another creature through space and time
Telepathy - spy on and affect the minds of others, influencing or controlling their behavior

Rejections

Since much of the powers of the Starspawn depend on sleep this should be a given:
[That which can eternal lie]
Cost: 1M per subject
Req.: Starspawn, Mythos 1

The affected fall into a nightmare filled slumber. The sleeper does not gain the benefits usually associated with sleep and suffers a -1 penalty on any mental rolls until the next time he sleeps normally.
Resolve+Composure vs Presence+Mythos to resist.


[The peaceful sleep of ignorance]
Cost: 5M per memory
Req.: Starspawn, Mythos 4

Some people awaken with no recollection of their dreams.
Other people awaken with no recollection of themselves.
Alter or erase a sleeping subject's memory. To resist the Subject must succeed in an opposed Resolve+Composure roll against your Wits+Manipulation.


[Disbelief]
Cost: 10M, 1 Quiescence
Req.: Sheppard of the Silver Key, Mythos 6

You might believe in the universe, but the universe doesn't believe in you.
Roll Intelligence+Occult, if successful you forcefully remove something or someone from physical reality to an alternate dimension.
The roll is modified by how many sentient beings are aware of the target's existence: +2 for a bum, +1 for a 4chan user, 0 your averige joe, -1 for someone particulary liked/hated by his comunity, -2 local celebrity.
Paticularly famous indviduals or items get a up to -5 penality.

The 5 previously suggested "sects" of abilities were divided up by specific sects being able to use them:

>Communion: Access to knowledge from outside the mortal realm. Known to Keepers of the Silver Key and Scions of the Yellow Sign.

>Duress: Power over the minds of others. Known to Starspawned Savants and Courtiers of the Black Pharaoh.

>Hypergeometry: The warping of space and time through symbols and spells. Known to Starspawned Savants and Keepers of the Silver Key.

>Polymorphism: Control over one's physical form and that of others. Known to Young of the Thousand and Courtiers of the Black Pharaoh.

>Summoning: The calling of creatures beloved of your patron. Known to Young of the Thousand and Scions of the Yellow Sign.

Is this really the best idea? I like having class-specific abilities because it does give a better distinction between the abstract and vague different mythic outside gods but should we also have multiple generalist abilities that anyone can have access to?

I'll be blunt. Are we going to have Delta Green in this?

>>13266643
In this? No
As a Hunter Conspiracy? Almost definitely.
Hell, wouldn't be surprised if someone else already did it.
Otherwise it shouldn't be too hard making a new branch of Task force Valkyrie

Ritual

[Answer: Embrace the Calling]
Cost: (10 - Mythos) Madness, 1 Quiescence
Requirements: Outsider
Description: All outsiders, once made aware of their true nature, may use this ability. For a piece of their humanity (or mortality if not human) they may abandon their minds and forms to the will of their patron. For a period of one minute per Mythos level the Outsider assumes the form it would hold at 0 Quiescence and maintains control of their character. This loss of Quiescence does not provoke a Displacement check as normal. Upon the end of the duration when the Outsider returns to their previous form the lose one Quiescence. This loss DOES provoke a Displacement check with a +2 penalty.

>>13266611
I think some general abilities are a must, so as to not feel too pigeonholed. If it seems like it doesn't work, they can still be subdivided into the other categories at a later time.

>>13266769
Just some generic "do this, drive some people crazy" and "do this, get cultists" kinda thing?

Would Outsiders treat life like MST3K?


But instead of movies, with reality? Mocking physics and geometry and all?

>>13266846
Kind of.
Everyone can get the basic stuff, but your Sect determines what you are REALLY good at.

For general stuff: In all the stories, mythos creatures and cultists cause unnatural fear in all things, even animals. So a general ability could be a powerful fear effect?

As for a "delta green", I think that would be best served by independent investigators. If you need a BGG (big good guy) then you could have several investigators get together, compare notes, lose a few to insanity, and have the strongest-willed of the lot come to face you at the moment of your greatest victory.

The biggest problem here is that as cultists, most of the parties' designs are going to be world-changing, in the long term at least. You'll eventually need to write new changes into the world, or have the party become team cobra.

>>13266877
Yeah, if the movie could suddenly decide to strangle you after a particularly crass remark.

>>13266897
"Man, gravity is dildos. I'm turning it off."

"Hey guys, look what I made! A two-sided polygon!"

A giant pseudopod comes out of the air and slaps both of their shit.

>>13266889
You make a good point. As such, the majority of PC activities should be based upon inter-sect warfare as is hinted at in stories like At the Mountains of Madness and The Whisperer in the Dark.

Or, gaining a secure cult following and just working to keep it undiscovered.

Or just trying to escape into the dream realm/rylei/kazath

>>13267094
I'm sure there are plenty of organisations, mythos and non-mythos, interested in exploiting the Outsiders.

>>13267111
Hell, some Majestic-12 guys would probably be cool with them. They're all dumbasses, anyway.

"are you a Grey"
"Uh... yeah, let's go with that. I need fifty sacrificies."

>>13266643
>>13266677

Being a massive Delta Green-fag, I was thinking about this today.

My vision of Delta Green in this setting is much as it is in Delta Green itself. DG is a conspiracy within the US Government dedicated to hunting down and destroying the forces of the Cthulhu Mythos, they'd still have been founded after the Innsmouth Raid. The big difference is the existence of Task Force Valkyrie.

Delta Green would view Task Force Valkyrie as naive and foolishly optimistic. TF:V would view Delta Green as a lunatic bunch of luddite cowboys. But within that there is a degree of respect. Delta Green might envy TF:V's fancy tech, but often a pistol and a molotov cocktail do the trick. TF:V might rather have some control over DG, but they've got no way of breaking into the structure, and they find it's best to leave them alone. Since very often corpses full of bullets and burned down buildings follow in their wake.

Whether or not we have MJ-12 is another matter. Three conspiracies in one government might be a little too much. But similarly, make MAJESTIC a little smaller, and their paths won't generally cross. It could work.

>>13267227

It's like I always say when someone asks me about DG.

"What is it about?"
"Imagine all of the conspiracy theories you've ever heard. Good? Now, imagine all of them are true, and worse than you can imagine. Think maybe twice as bad as that and you've got Delat Green."

>>13267300
But they must be confused when you explain Delat Green, when they're asking about Delta Green.

>>13267111
I can only imagine what the Technocracy would think of a cult of Shub Niggurath.

The Hunter conspiracies will definitely include some of the more famous CoC investigative teams, but we can't have them as huge mega-corporations with tendrils in every government. This is WoD setting after all.

So were we still going with the idea of worshipers of Nyarlathotep becoming new Masks or servants of Azathoth directly at high Mythos or did we just want to downgrade their powerlevel a bit?

Would Thespians of the Yellow Sign see reality as a play to act in?

>>13268878
One of the alternate title suggested was Playwright of Eons.

Perhaps they see reality as a play and they are directing the players into acts the don't even realize they were directed into.

So, are the ancient tomes of Outsider Power such as the Dhol Chants, Necronomicon, Pnakotic Manuscripts, Seven Cryptical Books of Hsan present in the world and do the outsiders constantly seek them like they do in the novels?

What about places of power like the nameless city or beneath the pyramids?

>>13269344
Outsiders draw madness from them.

>>13269358
Might be other effects to, but yeah mainly that.

>>13269344

Books like that are very important. They'll give Outsiders, cultists and investigators the chance to learn powerful rituals.

And places will be equally important. Summoning things will be easier in certain places, since the veil between worlds is not uniform. Of course, the unusual properties of such a location make them valuable for everyone, not just Outsiders.

>>13268823

I wouldn't like it to seem that Outsiders of Nyarlathotep got a better deal at high Mythos than the rest. I'd suggest not making them into Masks, especially since that basically means fundamentally changing the character. Doesn't mean they can't be powerful, just means they aren't a Mask of Nyarlathotep.

Of course, it could work just as well the other way round. Maybe that's how Nyarlathotep chooses and makes his Masks, they were all Outsiders once.

>>13269521
>Maybe that's how Nyarlathotep chooses and makes his Masks, they were all Outsiders once.

I actually like this idea a lot, especially since Nyarlathotep is surprisingly prevalent in contacting mortals. Makes them more of puppets at the end of his strings rather than physical avatars of a true Elder God.

>>13269521
Book and sacred grounds could be quests all on their own. Think of The Dunwich Horror where Whately died just trying to get the copy of the necronomicon sealed away in Arkham's Miskatonic University Library.

Any ideas for other pieces/places of power?

one last bump for the night

I just wanted to say
fuck you /tg/
I was going to run a perfectly normal zombie survival campaign, after all this Walking Dead stuff.
Nice, normal, flesh-eating zombies. Maybe a little bit of a conspiracy by the government. Nothing too out there.

Now?
Elder Gods, Elder Gods everywhere.
I repeat, fuck you /tg/, and all your blasphemous glory.

>>Richter Ratirt
Yes, captcha. That is what the lead cultist shall be named.

>>13271672
You say that like its a bad thing.

Also, deep ones > zombies

>>13271702
Deep One Zombies?

>>13271702
Too lizard-y.
I'm thinking, zombies. Lots of zombies. Definitely a military thing.
Some enterprising Shub-Niggurath cultist decides to make the zombies a bit less... human.
A follower of Hastur likes the madness, and wants to help it grow.

Of course, this is after it seems very, 'lol the government/military/corporations did it' and normal.

>>13271672
Well son, we might not always know how the road of life will lead us, but when you see it, you'll know, won't you?

>>13271405

>Any ideas for other pieces/places of power?

Well, just thinking about Lovecraft, there's obviously something important about Sentinel Hill in Dunwich, since Yog-Sothoth was able to push itself through there. Rl'yeh is an obvious on, if you can find it. There's probably something important at the poles, or maybe even in the City of the Elder Things. Or Pnakotus. Or the city of the White Apes in Central Africa. Or...

Cthulhu is low tier. Just sayin'.

>>13275115
Yeah, but it's also the closest.

>>13275160
>Nyarlathotep not the closest godlike being
guffaw

>>13275115

But it's not about who's the most powerful in terms of real cosmic importance. It's about the influence said God has on humanity. Cthulhu probably has the second biggest cult amongst humans, other than Nyarlathotep. We were originally tempted to have Azathoth in there as well, but we couldn't really get a feel for what Azathoth-linked Outsiders would actually do.

Who really ought to be further up than Shub-Niggurath on that image.

So where would Hastur fall on the scale? Maybe the "Other Gods" region but maybe not since he directly conflicts with Nyarlathotep?

>>13275196

I don't really like that sort of classification. Hastur, to me, isn't even what we'd call a God. It's a memetic, mind-virus that spreads and causes entropy and madness wherever it goes. To try and fit that into a category with, say, Glaaki doesn't make sense at all.

And besides, I'd have Nyarlathotep much higher on that diagram, second only to Azathoth. And I don't see why Hastur and Nyarlathotep are necessarily in conflict. Hastur doesn't really want anything, and we have no idea what Nyarlathotep wants, and I can't really recall anywhere that actually mentions some sort of rivalry between them.

[Noneuclidean Geometry]
Cost:2M/min per weapon

Weapons that deal bashing damage deal lethal and weapons that deal lethal damage deal bashing.

>>13276184
That mass of tentacles you suddenly sprouted?
Yeah, it's a lot more deadlier now.

>>13276187

And those guns those hunters are pointing at you? They'd best hope they brought bean-bag rounds.

I like that sort of Rejection. Thinks that aren't overtly powerful, but that do fuck with the game.

>>13276184
Erm. Non-euclidian geometry means that something isn't flat. That's it. Your own body is non-euclidian.

>>13277054
>Non-euclidian geometry means that something isn't flat. That's it. Your own body is non-euclidean.

In this use, it's more that geometric shapes don't look right; there are more than 90 degrees in a triangle, boxes are larger inside than outside, or smaller for no obvious reason, things are only visible/interact from certain angles or approaches.

Also:


Outsider: The Corrupted
Outsider: The Polluted
Outsider: The Odd


I promote the idea that US Protestant churches, the old Orthodox Churches and Muslim Clerics are the primary religious 'hunters' of these abominations; Catholic inquisitions are over-used and more infernal in theme. The unknowable poetry and power of ritual of the Sufis and Orthodox hermits is more their style.

>>13266611
>The 5 previously suggested "sects" of abilities were divided up by specific sects being able to use them:

I say we stick to the normal WoD paradigm. Everyone can learn everything, but some people get price reductions. It means players are a bit more free with their concepts.

>>13277099

>I promote the idea that US Protestant churches, the old Orthodox Churches and Muslim Clerics are the primary religious 'hunters' of these abominations; Catholic inquisitions are over-used and more infernal in theme. The unknowable poetry and power of ritual of the Sufis and Orthodox hermits is more their style.

I don't think the Catholics are going to be any less interested in hunting Outsiders. Hell, Outsiders really ought to be the top of every religious hunters hit-list, since there's really no way of explaining them that includes traditional religion.

By all means, put a little more focus on other religious hunters, but keep the Catholics there. Hell, they're probably the most well-equipped religion to deal with the supernatural.

I can't really see the CoE becoming much of a monster hunting group.

>What's it to be, foul spawn of Satan? Cake. Or Death?

>>13277150

Hell, I really ought to stop starting sentences like that.

>>13277054
Learn to Lovecraft.

>>13277099

>In this use, it's more that geometric shapes don't look right;

Hypergeometry? Psuedogeometry?

On a related note, have we thought about naming themes for the powers? Think of how Promethean power names are all alchemicy based, and Changelings are all poetic. Not the most important part of designing a game, but it can be pretty important to the feel of the game. Nothing ruins an atmosphere more than someone running around with a power called Bitchfist.

>>13277168
Not my fault Lovecraft used the wrong word.

>>13277230
>Hypergeometry? Psuedogeometry?
We know that would be the more appropriate choices, but this is a Lovecraft themed power, so we use a term that Lovecraft used, no matter how incorrect.
The other Rejections are are named on the same principle.

>>13277257
Not that guy, but doesn't non-euclidian geometry feel more like a class of Rejections, rather than a single power.

Hastur: The Hastur, Hastur

>>13277230
>On a related note, have we thought about naming themes for the powers? Think of how Promethean power names are all alchemicy based, and Changelings are all poetic.

My vote is *some* astrology and *some* astronomy terms:
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/glossary.html

Things are 'ascendant', in 'houses' and display 'aspects' ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_astrology#Aspects ) has some superb words.
However, anything to do with Leo, Gemini etc is laughed off as new-age bullshit.

>revatio sketch
What's that, Captcha? The name for a renaissance manuscript that maps the layout of a 5-dimensional maze?

>>13277273
That's true.
But what to use instead?

>>13277300
>My vote is *some* astrology and *some* astronomy terms
That's a good idea.

>5-dimensional maze
Now I need to find my maps of that hypercube maze I made. Every side had its own gravity, and there were giant chains to climb to other faces. Took my players six sessions to escape.

>>13277346
>Now I need to find my maps of that hypercube maze I made. Every side had its own gravity, and there were giant chains to climb to other faces. Took my players six sessions to escape.

Once your players escape the first time, give them an item which lets them return at certain times, making it their 'base'; like Changelings buying their own place in the Hedge, Outsiders can have their own malevolent , illogical Tardis.

>>13277346
>5-dimensional maze

>>13277407
oops, anti-sage

Also I'm wondering where these guys fit in.

>>13277300
Minor Artefact:

[The Revatio Sketch]

Said to be the work of Giuliano Revatio of Ferrara, also known as Giuliano the Unbalanced. The sketch is supposedly the map of an ancient underground complex rumored to be located somewhere in the Alps. Tho at first glance it appears to be nothing but a jumble of lines that might be a child's attempt at a drawing, what keeps it from being dismissed as such is the obviously painstaking care with which they were put on paper. What the complex contains, if it indeed exists, is unknown for you would probably need to be as mad as Giuliano to understand what the map says.

>>13277423
Mythos 4 or 5 NPC

Bumping so that someone with the know-how can archive this/copy-paste it to the wiki (anything so that it's not lost to Forohf'our, the Inevitable Consumer.

>>13277423

They might be the ones who made the Elder Sign. Maybe.

Otherwise, they're supernatural allies that might be called upon by an Outsider in certain areas. Or antagonists.

>>13266889
>The biggest problem here is that as cultists, most of the parties' designs are going to be world-changing, in the long term at least.

Assuming that this game is anything like the other WoD games, big changes can occur as part of the chronical, but the base setting always assumes that nothing big is going on.

>>13278372
Idea: 'Outsider-Aligned' aims are like activating 'stages of the apocalypse' , whatever obscure actions/rituals/deaths are required according to whatever prophecies or dreams the cultists are interpreting from.

When they eventually pull of something that works, they may expect it to be the end of days, but it inevitably 'just' causes an earthquake, a massive fire, an upsurge in changeling activity, the creation of a new outsider, a blood-borne plague amongst vampires, strange lights at night, or the discovery of a new breed of Fish near Madagascar.

Cultists may know that such consequences are 'theirs' , and will likely be very pleased with themselves, but blame the vagaries of translation/interpretation for the lack of an Earth-shattering event... and they'll try harder next time.

The setting should not be eve-of-destruction; it should be something like a schoolchild seeing equipment working at the LHC; told that this is the world of the future, something that will improve the world and make their life better... but secretly hoping to see time travellers appear or a black hole devour the world.

>>13278372
>>13266889

What I like about the whole Quiescence thing is that it explains why the world hasn't been substantially changed. Reality itself is working against the Outsiders and the Mythos, at least until the Stars are right. Making those big ch
anges, summoning Yog-Sothoth or whatever, is very, very hard, and will be campaign-ending events, one way or the other.

And that's not counting opposition. Every other Supernatural and human has a vested interest in the world as we know it not ending. Finding those tomes of ancient lore, obtaining sacrifices and securing the right places at the right times will be a real struggle. And even that doesn't take into account that not every Outsider will be a cultist. Some will fight their alien side, denying what they've become and working to undo the work of cultists and loyal Outsiders.

And even then, loyalist cultists won't be working as a coherent whole all the time, even if they actually do what their gods want, since only Nyarlathotep actually issues direct orders. Cthulhu cultists might work to bring back their master in one way, while Nyarlathhotep orders his followers to do it another way.

>>13278511
Remember that Outsider motivations aren't all "End the World". Each sect has its own goals, some just to figure out what their master's goals really are, whether it be from those who are closer to the outer gods or by interpretation from ancient texts. Sure, they care little for the ultimate impact on the world, but it's BECAUSE they have so little regard for it that just bringing about its end is unlikely to be the reason.

>>13277852
Also, the thread has already been archived (for some reason) so no worries about anything disappearing.

>>13278750
>And even that doesn't take into account that not every Outsider will be a cultist.

I like to think a sizeable proportion of Outsiders will use their powers for profit and other similarly banal stuff. Like making a pact with Hastur to become a better actor. Or using eldritch geometry to get to work faster.

Ok, maybe not that banal, but still generally minor stuff.

>>13278811
>>13278511
>Remember that Outsider motivations aren't all "End the World".

Sorry, you're right.
That was really an idea as I typed it, but really it would take the worm of odd events themed around the various 'sect' concepts outlined here:
>13257514
Where in game terms, the ST builds up the plot of a Hastur ritual causing a city-wide plague of madness and chaos, but the ST deducts 'points' for every time the ritual is thwarted, either by the players or those that oppose them. Every segment of the text that was not translated perfectly weakens it; the poor quality of the virgin sacrifice will not help matters; and in the end months of work just leads to a disturbing new art show at the civic centre.

Anything dramatic requires very competent 'malevolent' PCs or hopelessly complicit PCs who are actually making things easier for the cultists.

Of course, this is not a suggestion of a specific rule; just a suggestion of how a story could be controlled. A general Starspawned Savants storyline could culminate in a tsunami and the world edging one step closer to the rise of a dread Star God and the reshaping of reality... or just mean that everyone who eats Calamari in New Jersey this week will get food poisoning.

>>13278997

Which reminds me. We need to work out the various factions. Well, I say factions. They aren't really organised enough to be factions. More like schools of thought.

Obviously, we've got loyalists who do what they think their Gods want. Then there's Outsiders who use their gifts in a self-centred way. Then there's some who deny their nature and try to remain as human as possible.

But if we're sticking with the 5x5, then we need two more.

>>13279096
I remember someone suggested these:
>Bearers of the Book: You know that the greatest power of the Elder Ones is their unknowability. By learning of them, in ancient tomes and dark rites, you may one day restrain them eternally.
>Sunken Scions: Your Elder has touched you, and you know he has done so for a purpose. You pursue the plans of your Elder in the mortal realm.
>The Singers: The song of Madness sings to the Great Ones. When enough of the world sings together, they shall awaken.
>The Starborne: You have been blessed by the touch of greatness, and it has called to you. No servant are you, but a one-day equal.
>The Lunatics: They are coming, and you have seen them. Your body and mind bear the weight of their presence, but you shall spare this world their touch. Death is the only freedom.

There can always be the unwillingly converted person, who doesn't want to be used by the outsiders but can't control their own body or have been thrust into this and can't bring themselves to commit suicide.

>>13279096
Those who want to "uplift" humanity.

>>13279135

>Learn about the Gods so that you can fight them
>Serve the Gods
>Get other people to serve the Gods
>Ascend to the level of the Gods
>Save the world by destroying it

If I understand those right, I think we can roll together the Singers and the Sunken Scions, since they're basically doing the same things in different ways. Include people who just want to make themselves a little richer and more powerful in the short term rather purely gaining god-hood to the Starborne. Add in people who just want to forget about the whole thing and deny their nature and I think we might be set.

>>13279135
>>13279096

So, generalising, we have:

Work for them.
Help yourself.
Spread the word.
Learn as much as possible.
Try to stay human.
Slash and burn.

Slash and Burn could very easily become an antagonist group, leaving the others as the "playable" groups. I think a group which uses the god's powers against them would also fit as an antagonist group.

Also, if the y splats are philosophical, what kind of crunch will they have? Associated powers doesn't really make sense.

>>13279224
>Learn about the Gods so that you can fight them

Does it really need to be "so that you can fight them"? If Starborne covers everyone aiming to use their powers for personal gain, why can't this one cover anyone aiming to learn, regardless of motive?

So, what's the rationale for Outsiders of different sects to work together? I mean, other WoD supernaturals always have some reason to band together against the mundanes. The Outsiders, on the other hand, gather cultists for their respective god/patron. I don't see how a party of Outsiders containing one of each sect would come together and what they'd work for, but I can visualize a party of, say, vampires from different clans or Prometheans from different whatever their factions are called.

>>13279286

I disagree, but you've got me thinking. I think it's best to make them a faction who wants to fight the Gods and actively work against them, rather than denying what they are and trying to forget about the whole thing. Learning is a means to an end, whether that end is fighting the Gods, serving the Gods, enriching yourself or whatever. Learning isn't an end in itself.

>>13279296

Well, if they're a group of Deniers or [INSERT FIGHTY GROUP HERE], then it might make sense for them to try and find other people in the same situation, to support each other (especially since normal people want to kill them).

If they're Loyalists, then their goals may not be so different. It's kinda debatable whether a "win" for Cthulhu wouldn't also be a "win" for Shub-Niggurath. Especially if they believe that there's some relationship between their Gods, then they might be more than willing to work with each other.

And there's always Nyarlathotep. His plans involve the Old Ones too, and he's more than willing to use their Outsiders as pawns. If that means lying to get them working to his plan, then so be it.

The typical WoD set-up is that the unusual beings of a type are aware of most of the others in their local area, and have a place to meet up. It is here that unusual alliances can be made to further certain goals or to respond to threats.

For this 'safe ground', how about each city/'hood having a 'Temple' ; an extra/quasi-dimensional place, ancient beyond reckoning, perhaps vast, which anyone touched by the Outside forces can access safely?

The door to the Paris temple is found by following a certain route through the catacombs; right, left, right, left, left, left, left, right, backwards round to the left, right and then stopping by the wall and stating your full name.

As long as an Outsider follows this path while underground in Paris, no matter where they geographically are, they will be able to open the door to the Temple; a dimly-lit, wet cavern shaped like a Cathedral.

The shared safe space of the Temple is how Outsiders can meet each other and make arrangements.

>>13279437

Maybe they meet in a shared dreamspace. Dreaming is common to all sects, after all. A neutral ground where the Outsiders can meet.

>>13279437
I wouldn't say there is a temple in every city, as the Outsiders should be too few in number for it to matter. But what we do have in Lovecraft's works it's a bunch of places where strange stuff seems to gravitate together. The pyramids, A certain town in New England,...

>>13279510
Well the rules of the Dreamlands do say you can't die permanently unless you enter them physically.

>>13279510
Shared dreamspace is interesting; a place where people would find it harder to hide their 'true self'... and a way that conspiracies, plans and investigations could be coordinated without anyone on the outside being able to track any connection... from the outside any odd happenings would appear unrelated.

>>13279437

I don't think that's really necessary.

Outsiders will learn about each other soon enough, whether it's through a disturbance in the force (for want of a better term), or simply because they're likely to move in the same circles.

>>13279510

Dreamlands meetings are good. But it kinda means we need to really work out what the Dreamlands are and how they work. Because I don't particularly like the setting if it's taken exactly as Lovecraft portrayed it.

>>13279520

And this is a good point. Outsiders are going to gravitate to these sorts of places, whether deliberately in search of something, or unconsciously because they just feel right. They're bound to bump into each other sooner or later. And they'll know.

>>13279628
> Because I don't particularly like the setting if it's taken exactly as Lovecraft portrayed it.
I still say that The Dreamlands = Arcadia, but that is ST dependent.

For unlikely allies you can have a rejector of Sub Niggurath that draws powers from bloodline who supports the emergence of the dreamscape upon reality, which jibes well with Hastur and Cthulu followers, and there can be a reluctant Yog Sothoth keeper that feels responsible for overseeing such an endeavor or who has been captured and forced to assist them in opening the gate. The Nyarlathotep follower is unsure of how his master would respond to this, so he will assist until he receives orders otherwise.

>>13279662

Yeah, but even then, I just don't really like the idea that the Dreamlands is this fantastic place where Randolph Carter rides Zebras. I keep planning to make an updated, revamped Dreamlands for my upcoming Delta Green game, but I never get round to it.

Shared dream-space communication should be a very important ritual that anyone can access.

By the way, are we making rituals accessible to all and rejections class specific or are we making everything available to everyone with bonuses based on class?

>>13279700

That part isn't really thematically appropriate to WoD, and the optimism and heroic questing stuff in those stories are atypical of Lovecraft in general and the Mythos in particular. I imagine the Dreamlands that the Outsiders encounter in their dreams are more akin to R'lyeh or other such places: alien, menacing, incomprehensible, but strangely attractive, drawing the Outsider nearer and nearer. At first you just cautiously approach the place, then you start exploring it... A few dreams later, you're making yourself at home in that otherworldly space, and you might wonder why you so quickly passed from revulsion to fascination to a feeling of safety and comfort, when you meet another Outsider who is also dreaming of the same place. Many Outsider parties could well meet in the dreamworlds first, and then find each other in real life.

>>13279734
Still debating it.
It would help if we had more than 20 rejections and 5 rituals. We need more ideas for those.

>>13279734

My personal feeling is that we should basically have two types of rejections: Sect and common. Both are available at the same price if you're part of the Sect in question. Buying a Sect rejection from a different sect costs more.

Rituals should be available to everyone (including non-Outsiders), but with discounts based on Sect, like Hunter Tactics.

The Dream Lands should be designed as a representation of the psyches of whoever occupies it. the primary dreamscape, of course, is dominated by the mind of Cthulhu (at least on earth) as his psyche is far greater than that of any other presence. In private or pocket dreamscapes the landscape will represent the 'host' mind or be a composite of the minds of those who are present within it. It is unwise to bring those who are not of sound mind into the dreamscape, for the predation of the mind can become very real threats. A doubt or fear grows into a tangible threat.

>>13279762

The way I see it, the way you perceive the Dreamlands is all in your head. Randolph Carter (who might be an Outsider of Yog-Sothoth), rides a zebra and helps the ghouls get carried by Nightgaunts to battle the Moon Beasts. A different Dreamer rides a motorbike and organises the ghouls to be airlifted into a gritty urban skirmish with the Moon Beasts in a nightmare city.

The same thing happens, it's just perceived differently.

I've contributed elsewhere in this thread and not mentioned this issue before, but I'd like to play (constructive) devil's advocate, if I may;

How would the mechanism, fluff and mood of this game vary significantly from Changeling: The Lost?

It seems like a grimdark C:tL campaign and setting would cover a lot of the same ground.

>>13279841

I think there's a pretty significant difference between "I got kidnapped and molested by magical beings and now I have magical PTSD" and "hey what's this stuff I see in my dreams, oh wow my true nature is abhorrent to the universe, well FUCK YOU UNIVERSE *grows tentacles*". Changelings are victims at the core. Outsiders aren't really; they're "reality criminals", violating a law that says they shouldn't really exist.

>>13279826

I'm thinking some of the Mythos-charged books could also create a dreamscape, common to all who have read the book. Like the Necronomicon, if you've read it, you can dream yourself into the Necronomicon's dreamscape. This is difficult for regular humans, but it's easy for Outsiders.

>>13279841

Really, this could quite easily be described as Changeling: The Lost meets Demon: The Fallen. So it is quite important that we differentiate the game, you're right.

As I see it, there's a few differences. Outsiders are far more of a brute force, compared to a Changeling's gentleness. Outsiders take reality and fuck it till it breaks, Changelings make agreements and bend reality. Changelings are far more social, where Outsiders are best-suited to dealing with the mentally ill and those whose minds have been broken and reset in such a way as not to find the Outsider abhorrent.

Mechanically, I think an Outsider's going to be simply more powerful than a Changeling, especially when we come up with a few more general abilities. A clever Changeling can pact him to hell, but in a stand-up fight the Outsider's going to win.

There's also elements of Promethean here as well, in the sense that Outsiders aren't supposed to be. Their presence makes reality uneasy, people naturally dislike them (to the point of violence in some cases). Where Changelings' Clarity problems come from not being able to distinguish reality from fantasy, Outsiders' problems arise from the fact that they're unreal things trying to exist in reality.

Changeling is a game of Beautiful Madness. Outsider's about madness alright, but it sure as hell ain't beautiful.

You're definitely right though. They are similar. In fact, I recently played a Changeling who'd been taken by a True Fae who was pretty much the King in Yellow or Hastur and made to write plays in his wondrous dream city. There are elements of crossover, but I hope we can make them different.

Honestly, I think the only real difference here is the practically shouting bit about "Hey! Look at me! It's lovecraft! It's about mindfucking aliens from other dimensions! You know you eat this shit up so why not eat this one up too!"

>>13279951

Oh, and fluff-wise, Outsiders were changed by the Mythos, but not in the way the Changelings were. They weren't necessarily taken away, though that might have happened. They may even have been born this way. They may have just read a book and started to change. It might be in his blood, at puberty every second male in the family starts to change. Or they might have sold their soul for power. It doesn't really matter.

>>13279951

Thanks for the response; it's this sort of clarification that I was aiming for.

>Changeling is a game of Beautiful Madness. Outsider's about madness alright, but it sure as hell ain't beautiful.

Outsiders: a game of hidden knowledge
Outsiders: a game of secret destinies
Outsiders: a game of mutation and madness

?

>>13277150
The religious folks could just consider Outsiders an odd strain of demons. Most of them think vampires and werewolves and whatnot are demonic anyway. My concern is that Hunter already has a Catholic conspiracy and a Protestant compact (although the latter want to end the world for Jesus, which could make relations with them...interesting).

>Church of England can't fight monsters.
Sir Integra Hellsing would like a word with you. As would the Knights of Saint George.

>>13280172
Outsider: The Calling
A game of perspective and madness.

>>13280174

>Jesus was Nyarlathotep. He's shown me how to bring about the Rapture. Follow me.

I was more talking about the modern day CoE, which is far more of an old ladies' social club for tea and biscuits than a group of fire and brimstone demon-hunters.

>>13280172

A game of transformation and revelation? I don't think I'm pretentious enough to write this bit.

A game of madness and tentacles.

Outsider: The Calling
A game of forbidden knowledge and forgotten horrors.

http://www.nagualart.de/nagualframeset.htm

Suitably atmospheric music for this sort of game.

>>13280353
>eldritch horror

A game of eldritch horror.
A game of cosmic aberrations.
A game of inhuman terror.
A game of lovecraftian intigue.
A game of gods long forgotten.

A game of chthonic invasion.

Greater Artifact

[The Lament Configuration]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemarchand%27s_box

>>13280667
Sounds very similar to the silver key in function.

Also, just saying, our "Shepard of the Silver Key" should NOT start out with a silver key. That would make them way too powerful, giving them phenomenal access to very high mythos ability. They should just start out like Randolph Carter, with powers of premonition, and some rejections. Not so much Keepers of the Silver Key, as the would be, Seekers of the Argent Gate

>>13280764
Alternatively, they do start out with the key bur have no idea of its use without an instructing scroll/tome and a place of power to use it.

>>13280284
Read Hellsing

>>13281709

The manga? I'll get right on that.

>>13280764
>>13280908

I thought the Silver Key was a one-off thing. It's not as if every potential servant of Yoggie had one, it's just something Carter had.

brb, rereading Lovecraft

What about Tsatthogua? Are we including old Toady somehow?

>>13284857

We're currently just working on the big five. Once we've got them, and the system as a whole sorted, we'll be free to move on to all the more minor gods and entities. Don't worry, you'll have your amorphous, shadowy Outsider yet.

bump

Merry Christmas!
(bump)

>>13286394
Oh hey Vorcha!

Am I correct in assuming Zalgo and his followers already fit the qualities of the Scion of the Yellow Sign?

>>13279410
>Learning isn't an end in itself.
But what if it is? Wanting to know more is a very common motivation, and I don't think it's a good idea to make it automatically antagonistic.

>>13279951
While this is a rather meta concept, nWoD splats used to be connected to one group of attributes. Vampires, Werewolves and Mages were Social, Physical and Mental respectively. Prometheans were Resistance, and Changlings were Finesse. This idea was abandoned before a Power splat was made. Outsiders could be that Power splat.

>>13287838

As I understand it, yes. Though Zalgo seems to have less beauty and more pure reality-breaking-down. Perhaps Zalgo is the King in Yellow for the internet generation. It's the same principle, the same message, we just perceive it differently, in a more raw, less King-in-Yellowy way.

Or Zalgo is an entirely separate entity or concept. Whatever floats your boat.

>>13287838
The WoD is full of weird stuff. One mythos can't contain it all.

>>13288350

>While this is a rather meta concept, nWoD splats used to be connected to one group of attributes. Vampires, Werewolves and Mages were Social, Physical and Mental respectively. Prometheans were Resistance, and Changlings were Finesse. This idea was abandoned before a Power splat was made. Outsiders could be that Power splat.

Intelligence, Strength and Presence are the Power stats right? That actually makes a disturbing amount of sense.

>>13289189
This actually makes a lot of sense. They do fill the specific niche fairly well all things considered while still fitting the nWoD feel.

>>13289189
>>13290416
3rd

White Wolf games have a tradition of shouting-out to as many different pieces of source material as possible. Though this splat seems to be all about the Mythos, maybe there's room for sources that feature things closer to the popular perception of space aliens? After all, the current explanation of PCs sounds a bit like the stories of modern people who claim to have been abducted and conspiracy theories featuring shape-shifting extraterrestrial lizard people.

>>13290582
>shape-shifting extraterrestrial lizard people

We usually just call them Mi-Go or Byakhee.

>>13290582
True, but in this case I think it should be best if instead of concentrating on modern interpretation of aliens and in stead branched out to other pulp authors of the late 1800s/early 1900s. Some modernized concepts from Conan or John Carter of Mars should be easy enough to sneak in.

>>13290620
Not to say that everything won't still be a bit Mythos-flavored. I'm just saying that there's other kinds of literature, movies, and real-world beliefs that are also about alienness, and bringing them in would give this game a flavor that's more than "Call of Cthulhu in drag."

In comparison, Promethean is clearly an entire game based on Frankenstein, but that's not all there is to it. They brought in as much other stuff as they could.

BEFORE YOU GET TOO INVOLVED MAKING A NEW SPLAT, /tg/ SHOULD FINISH WHAT IT STARTED

PIC RELATED!

>>13290666
What pic Satan?

>>13290666
As Asmodeus said when we inadvertantly started a war with the all-father "Woopsie doodles!"

And again.

You know, I had to have fucked up uploading my pic on an awesome get

>>13290744
Nephilim is plural, anyway. It should be called Nephil.

>>13290716
>>13290744
I vaguely remember this, but even if I wanted to continue them, I wouldn't know what to do with them. Tho now that you mentioned they might be cannibalized for ideas.

>>13290753
so isn't promethian. who cares.

I still have a note file with the rough ideas of Leviathan

Nothing wrong with borrowing from other collapsed ideas. Better that one should come to fruition than none of them. Both of these fit pretty well within the framework we're building anyways.

>>13290819
Do upload it somewhere.

neph was gonna be an add on the the OWoD game Demon: The Fallen. Had good fluff, and shitty rules

Lev was stand alone, and seven kinds of awesome. Pic related, played like a modernized game of deep-one spawn people, with more variety...If it was written by Junji Ito (Gyo, Uzamaki)

>>13290876
>written by Junji Ito

Is the sense it was never finished, right?

>>13290582

If we're tying it in with Delta Green, then we have an explanation for the Greys, and the shape-shifting lizards are obviously Serpent People. Though they could just as easily be Changelings or the True Fae (as my current, conspiracy theorist Hunter believes). We shouldn't give concrete explanations for anything.

I think the core of the splat so far has been the Mythos Gods, so we need to keep them. But beyond that, for the antagonists and fluff sections, all of that stuff's wide open for pretty much anything. The Cthulhu Mythos is, if nothing else, a very wide-open setting that you can add pretty much anything to. Did you have anything in particular in mind?

bump

>>13294862
Other than the usual assortment of Shoggots, I was thinking of red, green, white and black Martians of John Carter fame.

>>13289189
They are indeed.

>>13290582
We can probably fit quite a lot of Stephan King's stuff in here as well. IT could easily be something a bit below Cthulu's level, and the Deadlights feel like they could fit something related to Hastur very easily.

Some Neil Gaiman stuff could fit as well.

>>13297083
Pennywise would actually be a good example of a Mythos 7/8 Quiescence 6ish Scion.

>>13297011

Alright, so I haven't read the novels (it's one of those things I keep meaning to get round to but never do), so this is from my brief skimming of the wikipedia page. They don't exactly sound like the sort of alien species that would be interested or have the capability to come to Earth and interfere with Outsiders. We're not planning on having the focus be on other alien races, who'll mostly be there as potential allies or antagonists.

How would these Martians get involved?

Pic sort of related, since trying to prevent a second War of the Worlds would be a pretty awesome plot.

>>13297083

Stephen King is good, plenty of Mythos stuff in there.

And thinking of Stephen King...

Do you read Sutter Cane?

[4th dimensional shift]
Cost: 3M/10min
Req.: Keepers of the Silver Key, Mythos 4

The universe is made up of many more dimensions than the three that the human mind can perceive.
The Outsider shifts his physical body into a higher dimension, becoming virtually invisible but rendering him unable to interact with normal matter. All that remains visible to the eye is a small Hyper-dimensional shadow floating in the air, that is very hard to notice and wouldn't even register on the average mind.

So I hear that we've finished the x splat pages. Anyone feel like sharing?

>>13297296
see
>>13254444

>>13297289
>mythos 4

Why?

>>13297461
Don't really know actually, I had that number in my head when writing, but now I forgot why.
Suggestions?

>>13297461

Because that's not just something that someone with low Mythos can do. 0 Mythos is perfectly human. 1 Mythos is only slightly inhuman. You've got to embrace the alien in order to unlock the potential to really reject reality.

>>13297486
It lets you turn imperfectly invisible, and removes your ability to interact with matter. That's much worse than obfuscate 3, which vampires can obtain as a starting power. Assuming normal players, Mythos 4 is going to be a rare occurance. Remember Outsiders are going to be fairly powerful compared to other splats.

If we're going to have Mythos requirements at all, which I don't think is a good idea, we need to consider the actual power of the abilty, not just having a feeling about how hard it should be.

>>13297519
so 2 would be more appropriate?

>>13297519
tho it should also be noted that unless whoever happens to notice him has a means of dragging his ass back into 3D space the outsider can't be harmed

>>13297519
You're looking at it wrong. It turns you invisible AND means you don't interact with matter. You're immune to damage and can walk through walls. It's perfect for spying, escaping, or using mind-bending powers. This is a 5 dot power for any other group. In fact, I seem to remember that changelings do have this as a 5 dot power. Mythos 4 is fine.

Though I would agree that mythos requirements are a bad idea.

>>13297600
well, it's either a mythos requirement or upping the Madness cost so low level Outsiders don't chain spam the good stuff

>>13297619
What system are we using for purchasing Rejections? That could be used to limit weak Outsiders ability to run around exploding the universe.

>>13297669
Not discussed yet. Help would be appreciated.

We should probably give it a "type" classification as well as rank (EX: Hypergeometry, Rank 5) and just have specific sects be able to take specific "types" as though they were one rank lower. (Ex. Shepards of the Silver Key may take Hypergeometry and Communion abilities as though they were of one rank lower.)

>>13297696
The standard one power per dot is too restrictive. The mage system might work well, but then we're basically playing mage. Maybe something like Vampire rituals. Your dot rating limits the Rejection level you can purchase and you can purchase as many Rejections as you like. Each new dot comes with one free Rejection.

Though, I do really like the Mage system.

So, someone suggested we make about 15 categories of abilities for our rejections. And one of the better ideas was using astronomical and astrological names for the categories as a theme. So does anyone know of some good ones we could use? The fluff for them can come later.

>>13298149
15,...Ain't that a bit much?

>>13298206
Well, maybe 10 will do. I believe the standard package has about 10-15 subdivisions if I recall.

Of course, we can always roll 5 or so into rituals too.

>>13298235
ain't there 12 signs?
Where di the other 3 come from?
And what do they have to do with the Mythos?

>>13298206
2 per group and 5 general I would assume.

>>13298337
12 would also work.

>>13298149
Here's some suggestions.

>>13266611
>>13257514
>>13257523

>>13298389

>>13266611 doesn't work so well anymore since Summoning was condensed to a single ritual.

I keep trying to come up with come new categories, but keep straying into Mage territory.

>>13299471
yeah, it's quite difficult not to overlap with other group's names since, as has been mentioned, there is some similarities with Mage, Changeling, and Demon.

>>13299511

And Promethean. And a little Geist probably.

>>13299749
Hell, I guess all of the settings (except werewolf and most of vampire) borrow from Lovecraft horrors and mythos.

The easiest way to do it, would be to look at the 5 Sects and find 2 distinct abilities for each and extrapolate from there, but there is much overlap within the mythos. :/
Also, we could think of other ways to handle this,

>>13299902

Cthulhu - Dreams and general psychic powers (and also probably some transmission of the Innsmouth taint)
Nyarlathotep - Masks and influencing humans (and the ability to contact and consult Nyarly himself for good or ill)
Yog-Sothoth - Time and Space
Shub-Niggurath - Physical transformation and the natural world
Hastur - Madness and Reality Fiddling

The bits in brackets are my ideas on some sort of unique ability that everyone in that sect has.

>>13299902
>>13300340

see
>>13266611

>>13297184
You mean the high mythos Chosen of Hastur? I am familiar with his work.

Speaking of which, actually trying to write a corebook will be hard to do without saying Hastur more than twice. I guess we'll have to use his other names.

Hastur.

>>13299902
>but there is much overlap within the mythos

This is why restricting powers to a single sect is a bad idea. I mean, it's just not Lovecraft without some kind of madness. Restricting it to the little yellow men wouldn't be any fun.

Bumping for the night.

Bumping with the collected works of Lovecraft.

www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/

>>13301090

But certain powers just don't really make sense outside of certain sects. A Starspawned isn't going to make the milk of Shub-Niggurath, for instance. I think we're going to lose a little something if there aren't these unique little things, or if we make them more generic.

Ops this is truly a magnificent undertaking.

Voting for Outsider: The Calling

Also gents check out the hpl podcast: http://hppodcraft.com/

And this story, Bones of a Toad and Knuckerhole by Mike Minnis. He is very very good.

http://www.netherreal.de/crypt/toad/bones.htm

http://www.netherreal.de/crypt/knuckerhole/knuckerhole.htm

Rejection

[Gift of the Goat]
Cost: 4M/target
Req.: Young of the Thousand

"When they said that the woods were alive, I didn't think they meant literally!"
You grant life to an inanimate object for the duration of a scene. It will follow your order to the best of it's ability given it's form, so more humanoid object are usually preferred.

Please don't call it Outsider: The Calling - It might sound good but it doesn't describe the game well at all.
Outsider: The Alien would probably get my vote. it ties in well with the original title while being fairly descriptive. I think calling these beings 'Outsiders' makes sense. And we are now alien, aberrant and perverse.
so for a new idea, how about
Outsider (or maybe Aberrant): The Perverse - might cause some unfortunate confusion with 'perverted' however.
Alien: the Outsider - was ok though it sounds like ET with alienation issues.

Outsider: The Others

repeating the suggestion of
Outsider: The Corruption

>>13307743
[At The Edge Shadows]
Cost: 2M
Req.: Adequate light source

Your shadow gains substance and can deal lethal damage. Doesn't work in diffused light or complete darkness.

Outsider: The Touched - has an 'insane' connotation, and fits the back story, no?
or
Outsider: The Malignant
or
Outsider: The Malevolent?

Depends on if this goes with the nWoD or the oWod.
In the oWoD, the names were all for the central aspect of the creature's world.
Changeling: The Dreaming.
Vampire: The Masquerade
Werewolf: The Apocalypse
Mage: The Ascension
Wraith: The Oblivion
Hunter: The Reckoning
Mummy: The Resurrection
Fuck Demon: The Fallen for not fitting.

In the nWoD, the convention is split; roughly half refer to the being in question.

Werewolf: The Forsaken
Changeling: The Lost
Geist: The Sin-Eaters
Promethean: The Created

The other three refer to some aspect of the story. Arguably, The Requiem is a thematic suggestion, rather than a story focus, but the focus could always be "I am emo."

Mage: The Awakening
Vampire: The Requiem
Hunter: The Vigil

So, if we go with Outsider: The Calling
or Outsider: The Unnamed

We should focus on what the name means in the setting. If they are The Called.. or if there is a "Calling" I want that to be a recurring theme.

I like Outsider: The Calling personally, it sounds good.

>>13308109
*but* it should only be The Calling if there is some endless calling.

Outsider: The Nightmare

Does that sound good? Or too much like changeling?

>>13308109

'Calling' implies meaning, while the Mythos is incomprehensible, alien, and strange.

While a few of the Cultists or Outsiders might perceive it as being Called, overall the idea is too neat, and unfitting, like trying to tie a ribbon on a flying polyp.

>>13308132
Outsider: The Incursion?

Maybe we should just roll with it and use the whole list of names at various points, like using "The Alien" and then using "The Quiescent" and acting like we used the same thing both times.

>>13308412
While that would be cool, it's not very user (or writer) friendly.

>>13308182
>'Calling' implies meaning, while the Mythos is incomprehensible, alien, and strange.

And part of the character development through the game is coming to terms with the fact that you feel 'called' to something that isn't calling, idn't using words, isn't even part of reality or the 'normal' supernatural.

Characters are 'called' to act out certain things, do them, and they have no ability to explain why they are doing things, even to themselves.

...right?

>>13277099
>>13277099

How about the Zoroastrian church serving as the primary hunters of these aliens.

It'd be great: They revere truth and order and view it as the antithesis of chaos. This means you could have their tenets be in direct conflict with the very principles of these Lovecraftian horrors.

Furthermore, it's generally accepted that you needed to have a Parsi father to enter into the faith. We could make it so that the direct Parsi line physiology is incompatible for the alien physical/ mental domination and integration, ensuring that all direct Parsi descendents in which at least the great grandfather and great grandmother were Parsi are pure.

Furthermore, their judgment day scenario is a great battle between their god of order and the god of chaos... perfect for a predicted world-shattering battle between the pure and the aliens. And, their doomsday scenario is their god Ahura Mazda surfing a wave of fire and molten metal across the entire earth...which could describe their Plan B should the aliens win; nuke the entire earth into oblivion.

>>13306314
>>13301090

>But certain powers just don't really make sense outside of certain sects. A Starspawned isn't going to make the milk of Shub-Niggurath, for instance. I think we're going to lose a little something if there aren't these unique little things, or if we make them more generic.

How about this:
We keep the categories from >>13266611 just substitute Summoning wit Corruption or Chaos (or both if it seems appropriate) and make sure that each category has 4 or 5 rejections exclusive to the Sects most associated with it, with the rest being general abilities purchasable by all.
This way every one can build a character they want while keeping certain things unique to the single Sects.

>>13308182

>>13306314
How about we make the very distinctive powers something akin to Changeling blessings? Every x splat has certain powers only it can access, and gains more powerful abilities as Quintessence decreases?

>>13309474
They gain mutations as Quiescence decreases, so I would change that to "...as Mythos rises"

>>13309540
I don't know. I like the idea that they have to make a choice between staying human and gaining power.

I love this idea, /tg/. Been with it since thread one and I only have one issue.

How would the PCs interact? Would they all be pissing each other off constantly?

>>13254394
>naming

Generally, the second word is a form of a verb and has 3 syllables. Therefore:

>Outsider: The Forbidden
This one doesn't really make sense.

>Outsider: The Forgotten
I like it.

>Outsider: The Quiescent
Not very catchy.

>Outsider: The Aberrant
Maybe.

>Outsider: The Abhorrent
Again, maybe.

>>13309609
By having high Quiescence they forgo extra mutations (and tho I'm yet to write them out, what I have in mind is nothing to scoff at). But becoming more alien (rising Mythos) should also have an impact on what they can do.

>Outsider: The Aberrant
I like this one,

>>13309662
I'm guessing they would be similar to vampires. They don't have any meaningfull alliances, but they can work together when they have similar goals.

>>13309793
The problem with that approach is that Vampires have a hierarchy.

>>13309831
Obviously they're not exactly like vampires, but that doesn't change the way they work together.

So how killable are Outsiders, then?

>>13309877
At this point? No way of knowing.

>>13309877
More killable than Prometheans and *shudder* Sin-Eaters. Less killable than changelings.

>>13309891
It should probably be included from the very start. Build in quality, as it were, rather than realising you've screwed up at the end and having to tack on survivability.

Speaking of which, have we actually made a mission statment yet? A sort of specification all contributors have to follow.

Well as far as I know, I remember some people typing about making this a power splat, also if I remember all of their abilities, They regenerate, they have the Q 00 Form and They would have a low power pool as they don't use so much, other than that I don't know.

>>13310073

Mostly we listen to people who know the mythos for fluff and we listen to people who know nWoD for crunch.
Worked well up to this point.

OUTSIDER: FORGOTTEN HORROR

Well for what I see, it all points out to being a freak of nature than having high mortality, what would be the benefits of having high morality, other than well, not being a freak of nature.

>>13310571
Quiescence is not morality.
Sacrificing a baby has no effect on it.
Using the power you gained from the sacrifice to call forth an Elder God is likely to decrease it.

The benefit of keeping it high is that the universe doesn't screw with you.

Outsider: The Enigma

New Thread >>13311592