2e was the majority of the nerdy part of my childhood. Now no one will play it because apparently a game where YOU CAN DO ANYTHING is too complicated for 3e players.

are there katars in 2e?

Can I use two of them in 2e?

i'd like to get back into it i've got a whole mess of the books and i've always had fun with it. but i can't find a group

>>7906697game where YOU CAN DO ANYTHING is too complicated for 3e players.

Not wanting this to become an edition war, but I actually think there's a reason for this.

In 2e, the expansions to the rules were broken into areas. You could have Non weapon proficiencies, or 2ndary skills, or both. And on top of that you had features like proficencies for things like armor, or shields (So that your shield wasn't just a 1 point bonus to AC, but could be +2, +3, or more based on the kind of shield it was, and not just magical bonuses.) Then there were things like weapon expertise (for non-fighters) and things like master and even grandmastery of specific weapons for fighter classes.

Pretty much like you said, anything you wanted to try and emulate.

But it was all plug and play, you could pick and choose.

Then in 3e they did away with the plug and play aspect. The assumption on the writer's part is that if you used a splat book, you'd use ALL of it. This creates an expectation and reliance on the rules over the goal of just achieving the flavor you wanted for the game.

Mind you that's just my opinion.

>>7906697
I am offended. You have offended me.

I have a guy with a hard on for 2e. His game sucks ass, though. It's all shitty pop culture references and whacky shenaniganz tied to an incomprehensible plot

>>7906704Katars? (pic related)

Two of em? I don't see why not?

2e had stats for just about every weapon in existence, including ones that were exotic as hell.

WIlderlands? My 2e weekly session just started into that one. How interesting...

>2e had stats for just about every weapon in existence, including ones that were exotic as hell.

And two pages worth of pole-arms. Why, we never knew, but there they were.

>>7906900

I love how much of the space in that ad is wasted on sullen kid, BROWN, and the rich wood paneling of their kitchen.

Seriously, why not sell the game a little more?

>>7906866WIlderlands? My 2e weekly session just started into that one. How interesting...

Where you starting?

I had my players start in the North up in the Elphand lands. They're based out of Damkina for the moment.

The new king of Damkina just announced de-listing of the majority of the nobles in that region (for failing to pay taxes, provide patrols, protect the citizenry, etc. Basically for failing to uphold their feudal responsibilites and oaths) And then announced that he's opening up the lists of nobility so that ANYONE can get land grants and titles if they prove themselves capable of maintaining homesteaded territories.

It's a great setting because there are no actual nations in the Wilderlands setting, each Citystate only has as much power and influence as their armed forces can project around the city.

>>7906921
Dude, back then it was still hobbyesque.

They didn't have tons of money to do super slick advertising. The add was probably put together by some of the game designers or something.

Gotta admit though, broody blond sulky boy is both mind bendingly broody and blond.

>>7906596

Way to go OP. Good to see someone rediscovering AD&D.

I'm in a 2e game right now, we're up to 8 players and having a great time.

If you're interested in supporting an in-print game that's like 2e, I encourage you to check out Castles and Crusades. It uses the d20 core rules, minus feats and a lot of the 3e bloat. And it's drop-in compatible with ad&d (just need to convert AC). Good for exactly what you seem to like about ad&d - modularity and speed of play.

>>7907071Way to go OP. Good to see someone rediscovering AD&D.

Thanks. And yeah, I think the bloat really got into D&D and slowed things down a lot.

Combat should feel fast and dynamic, and part of that is that the real world rolling for combat should be fast. I'd forgotten how fast it actually was in 2e having gotten used to it in 3e.

Really though what's impressive is how big a selection the game had. Everything from the grim grim darkness of Dark Sun to the Rogue Traderesque craziness of Spell jammer and everything in between .

>>7907071
Not OP, but a big 2E fan. Other systems never quiet meshed with me, but I do have more than aa few friends with homebrew fixes for the more major hiccups- character sheets, minor bugfixes. I haven't played in forever, and I still have a character I never got to use with my old DM.

Hell, I haven't been able to find a stable group online. :\

>>7907419

Try meetup.com. That's how I got together with my current group. You have to be proactive about mailing people though IME, there are a lot of people who put a profile up and haven't been on for a while, but they're still looking for a group and will get your mail.

>>7907499
Writing this down. Also, gtg. Thanks, Anon!

I never got to play 2e. Lots of OD&D though. One of my first online purchases was the Rules Cyclopedia(which had simplistic conversion rules for 2e).

>>7907255

It's sadly also part of what shot TSR in the foot. They put out so much content that they couldn't sell enough of any given setting to really cover costs- well, that and the sucky TCG's like Spellfire and Blood Wars.

>>7907419
you could also swing by the suptg chat (found via the suptg site)

we have a 2e chat room there and the suptg chatroom is full of people for setting up games with.

Does anyone have scans of the core 2e AD&D books (phb, dmg and monstrous manual)? I fell in love with the sexy art of the edition, but all torrents and downloads for these books are part of a 28 book compendium lacking the art, and for some reason pasting a topless Luis Royo picture at the very front.

Running 1e AD&D at the moment.
>>7907071
>Castles and Crusades
I wouldn't recommend C&C to anybody. The whole siege mechanic can easily turn it into a trainwreck during play. Anyway, there are 2e retro clones in the works if necessary.
>>7907730
Be careful referencing BECMI as OD&D. There's rather noticeable differences between it and the original. It also confuses the fuck out of people.
(Real D&D has elves as a class!)

>>7908251
I'm guessing you're wanting the original printings without the fingerpaint of the reprinted versions?

>>7908437Be careful referencing BECMI as OD&D. There's rather noticeable differences between it and the original. It also confuses the fuck out of people.
(Real D&D has elves as a class!)

BECMI for those who don't know the acronym stands for Basic, Expert, Companion, Master, Immortal.

Meaning it stands for all the rules that were originally released as boxed sets back in the heyday of D&D in the 80's and should not be confused with OD&D which is the white box set of rules (or the woodbox set) Those included the various small booklets printed in 5.5"x8.5" format.

BECMI also had elves as a class and not just a race. Elves were all fighter/magic user types, so you didn't get to create elf thieves and such.
Just interjecting with this so that everyone understands what you mean.

>>7908624
No prob. Anyway, I'm uploading the early printing PHB and DMG for 2e.

I also have a 500MB monster compilation for 2e called Monstrous Collection if somebody wants it.

>>7908700 I also have a 500MB monster compilation for 2e called Monstrous Collection if somebody wants it.

Is that all the MC sheets? If so, hell yeah!

I'm looking to understand 2e quickly. Are there any quickstart rules?

>>7906596
I've got my 2e ADnD books lying around somewhere, I've gotta read them again sometime

>>7908742
I'll upload it after the DMG and PHB finish then.

The book will take a good long while so check /rs/ if you don't catch it today for whatever reason.

>I'm curious how many other people are running 2e or have tried it again recently?
I never left, personally. The few times I play D&D, I break those dusty books from my college days out. Mostly Deadlands, Delta Greeen, M&M, and Traveller for me. Mostly recently, Cthulhutech with the playing-cards alternate rule.

>>7908759
There were 3 free Fast Play sets, and the First Quest boxed set.

The First Quest set was reprinted with a different name, but I forget what it was.

>>7908624
>BECMI also had elves as a class and not just a race. Elves were all fighter/magic user types

I always did like it for pigeonholing demihumans. It was appropriate, considering the level of detail the game went into in other respects (ie, none).

So elves are all magical, because it's in the nature of elves. And they don't have any organised religion and they live in a fucking forest where nobody has ever seen a lock to pick and every child gets trained with weapons. And dwarves and halflings just can't cast spells because it's not in their nature, but you'll never meet a halfling who isn't capable of sneaking about quietly. It all makes sense.

>>7908700
>>7908742
Looks like it's still on Megaupload from last time.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XTM0AHD6

We miss you, TSR.

>>7908851
Nom nom nom...

500 mb of monsters! Awesometacular.

Seriously, I know they were really working at coming up with some of the monsters in 2e toward the end... but damn if they didn't have some really infuckingcrediblely awesome stuff in there.

Snif! seriously, it's bringing a tear to my eye how many people are coming out of the woodwork that still use the older editions.

>>7909040
If you haven't heard, they finally finished L4 over at Dragonsfoot.

Dungeon Master's Guide
http://www.mediafire.com/?xjozl5zhtcz

OP, This is your cowardly fighter. I'm having a blast too.

AD&D just feels 'right'. There's no getting bogged down in feats and skills and flowcharts and synergies. Even the magic system blends in seamless.

And the sense of danger! OP sent one griffon at us. ONE. And it could have wiped the floor with us.

>>7909123L4 on Dragons foot

Just pulled it down. Looking through it. Damn it looks like a good adventure. Nice established timeline for the events to take place in. Gonna sit down and give it a good solid read.

AD&D still has the best campaigns ever.

And the art..

I've never forgotten those black & white sketches.

this is the only type of D and D anyone should play

>>7909421
To be honest that was from Mentzer Ba
ALEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

>>7909318
OP here... heyya. Wanted to touch base, did you read through the players option tactics and combat stuff? I'm including it for future reference.

Hope you got the email I just sent out to the group.

Oh yeah, if there are any interested, we have a slot or two open for players in our 2e campaign. Games are Saturday at 9am PST (that would be 5pm GMT) If you're interested in possibly joining in, swing by most weekday mornings to #DD2e on the http://xen.thisisnotatrueending.com/ chat link (use the java irc applet and then type /join dd2e

There's usually someone there to give you info.

Dralasites wer heer, byotches

2nd Ed was like the golden age, 3rd ed was made for dummies and people who wanted rewards for being SLIGHTLY above average, and wanted it to play more like a fantasy novel then actual historical times. 4 ed........eh... thats the retard cousin you want to lock inside an asylum and never visit

>>7909421
classic Elmore pictures

major nostalgia

>>7909473
As a lover of 2nd edition, the only thing I like about 3rd was the overhaul to the skills/proficiencies.

Player's Handbook
http://www.mediafire.com/?en2sjiw2jw4

2E thread FUCK YEAH

>>7906861
I think katars are either in Arms & Equipment or Combat & Tactics.

>>7909376
oh hell yah!
longest campaign I ever played in!

>>7909516
I think they are in both...
I know they are in Arms & Equip though

>>7909473
Said it before and I'll say it again, 4th edition is the first version of D&D that caters to a particular playstyle better than any other RPG. The only reason to play AD&D was that you didn't know any better.

>>7909539
>herp derp

>>7907255
>Combat should feel fast and dynamic, and part of that is that the real world rolling for combat should be fast. I'd forgotten how fast it actually was in 2e having gotten used to it in 3e.
THIS!! FUCKING THIS!!!
Combat should be FAST

>>7909539
>*Huff huff* Hey guise, am I too late to troll this thread?

>>7909539
>Said it before and I'll say it again
>I spout shit out my mouth without ever thinking

I liked the 2E Settings

>>7909574
Al-Qadim was my FAVORITE

>>7909565
apparently not

>>7909464

GRANDMASTERY BASTARD SWORD WIELDAN ffffffffuck yes. More damage more dice more crits

I love my crits.

This will be good too if we ever start leading troops and start getting in bigger batttles numbering upwards of a few dozen, which I suspect we will with so many warriors in the party.

and Yes, we could definetly use a few more players. The holidays devastated our roster. We have no thief or cleric in a ad&d game and we're about to enter an milennia old abandoned fortress. Let that nightmare sink in for a second.

I have to concede though, D&D had much better illustrators in the TSR days.

>>7909560

The first time I ran a game in 3.5 was also the last time I ever wanted to run a game in 3.5.

It started out fine, but when I sprung a monster on them one of the players ambushed me with all this Attack of Opportunity and Movement Squares and so much other bullshit.

>>7909594
Agreed, they felt more real. Like you could jump into the world and live there.

1000(Fuck YEAH)!!!

>>7909620
>It started out fine, but when I sprung a monster on them one of the players ambushed me with all this Attack of Opportunity and Movement Squares and so much other bullshit.
I FEEL YOUR PAIN

>>7909585

>>7909620
I go by the "if you can't scratch out combat positions out on a napkin with a pen" then it isn't worth it.

But we usually used a dry erase board or minis. But we didn't count squares or anything like that.

>>7909641
Thanks, anon.

Have a real tiefling.

>>7909642

We never had a thief to begin with. Just a party of 4 paladins, 2 mages and me, the lone fighter.

I'm expecting pungi sticks around every corner.

Thing I've learned: 3+3.5 are more fun when you forget the whole bullshit movement square map with figures bullshit entirely and just wing it.

>>7909585GRANDMASTERY BASTARD SWORD WIELDAN ffffffffuck yes. More damage more dice more crits

Ah.. you missed one thing... damge dice shifted up to the next highest die. Oh.. that 2d8... try 2d10 instead.

>>7909672
Dry-erase board is a staple of my IRL games. No grid; just an easy way to tell whose back is to whom. My threeaboo friend, however, shelled out like thirty bucks for a Chessex mat with squares for his games.

That aforementioned first time running 3.5 was over IRC, unfortunately.

>>7909736
3d6 with two hands, mother fucker!

>>7909717
Actually you had a bard a cleric (the dorf) and an illusionist (the gnome) in addition to the fightin and magic folk.

You guys really need a cleric and a thief in there, but don't worry about that too much. Traps and such have always been a sore point with me. In all honestly who digs a pit fulla spikes anywhere other than in a tomb?

Seriously, who? Traps should make sense when they're put somewhere.

Grandmaster Katana wielder vs Large monster. D%? Good LORD?!

>>7909776
3d6 was the 2h sword, 2d8 was the bastard sword 2handed.

Still, 3d8 is pretty fucking impressive.

>>7909815
Katana is 1d12 VS large.

>>7909815
I always ban katanas.

>>7909736

>>7909832
>>7909838

You know what's great about Katanas in the Player's Manual?

They don't exist.

>>7909817

and one-handed bastard sword would be 1d10/1d20 damage.

I need a smoke.

>>7909832
Hm... He must have gotten two dice bumps somehow. I distinctly remember a group WTF when we realized we needed to decide what dice was bigger then a d20.

>>7909881
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxAKFlpdcfc
>>7909936
Ah, I have a d30 anyway. Even then, I probably would allow it that high.
I'd probably make the player get ahold of a d22 or d24 somehow.

Regardless, I do remember that there was one of the over powered Japanese weapons that did have a d20 VS large though.

>>7909794

I just like to joke about Gygaxian hijinks. I've never felt it was mandatory to have a thief. With proper playing, anyone can sneak by in the dark and the only people who use traps are assholes.

A cleric on the other hand... The paladins' lay on hands can only go so far.

>>7910013

the d20 vs large was in the Ninja's Manual. The big two handed katana whatever it's called.

>>7910013
Now realize he was dual-wielding. It was ... bad.

>>7910125

>>79098173d6 was the 2h sword, 2d8 was the bastard sword 2handed.Still, 3d8 is pretty fucking impressive.

OP here... Me I do the following when it comes to master and grandmaster status for weapons. It's a brotherhood, if a player seeks to achieve grandmaster or master status he or she must fight and be accepted as an equal by a master or grandmaster . It's a brotherhood sort of thing. You run the risk of being killed if you don't put up a good showing.

But once you get it, all the weapon double spec bonuses, the master bonus, the grandmaster bonus and the dice shift...fuck you can become a serious killing machine as a fighter in 2e and 1e

Me I also apply that sort of thing to bows as well. A bow fighter who is a grandsmaster gets the same sort of additions that I give the melee fighters if they warrant it, hitting with arrows that shift into d8 instead of d6, that get all the damage bonuses and such AND additional attacks.

>>7910125

But wait... The off-hand weapon is suppose to be smaller than the main-hand weapon! I think your buddy was cheating big-time, friend.

>>7910252
2 profs into 2wf

and just ban weeaboo weapons

>Regardless, I do remember that there was one of the over powered Japanese weapons that did have a d20 VS large though.

One of my friends ran a char with one of those bad boys.

The char wasn't Asian-flavored at all; he was just huge, so he wanted a huge weapon.

>>7910125
It's funny that the katana ends up dealing more damage 1 handed than 2 handed w/ Grandmastery.
>>7910111
Explains alot.
>>7910172
I'm currently using Mentzer Style Weapon Mastery that I stole and altered from here:
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=34960

Doesn't have the the extreme overpoweredness of early game and makes them more viable in the endgame.

>>7910343
YOU ARE HUGE! THEREFORE YOU HAVE HUGE WEAPONS! HACK AND SLASH! HACK AND SLASH!

FUCK SECOND EDITION

Want a rules light fantasy game? THERE ARE BETTER FUCKING OPTIONS! Want a crunch heavy fantasy game? GUESS WHAT! THERE ARE BETTER FUCKING OPTIONS! Want a fantasy game that isn't ass and doesn't put your character in a straight jacket with overly specific classes and kits? OH YOU BETTER FUCKING BELIEVE THERE ARE BETTER OPTIONS!

>>7910542
>Guys, listen to me! Guys! Hey guys!

>>7909572
>>7909565
>>7909557
I can't help but find it funny, you're calling him a troll for blasting your favorite edition, yet he's responding to an edition warrior post that no one aside from him has bothered to call out, you fucking faggots.

>>7910780
Ah fuck you, you fucking piece of shit. Learn to play a game that isn't an antiquated shitpile.

>>7910801
That's because everyone who matters in this thread likes 2E, dummy.

>>7910833
>That's because everyone here is a faggot.

Same thing

>>7910833
Don't turn it into an edition wars thread. We talked about it, and shared some 2e resources.

If you want to bump it for more 2e discussion then cool, but don't do it for this.

>>7910879
Heh, sorry. I can't help feeding trolls.

>>7910879
Oh no, we're gonna do this. This even about 2e being possibly the worst edition of D&D, no, this about 2e being a bad fucking GAME. There is no defining feature to second edition that another game doesn't do better, there is no positive reason to play second edition outside of familiarity. The ONLY people that play second edition are those who don't know better and for some reason, they all feel entitled to act like a bunch of pompous faggots EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME they talk about their game of choice. Given half a fucking chance, I'd take every single second edition player and put a bullet through the back of their head and then beat their children to death with an iron pan.

>>7910879
Oh and you, I hope you slip in the shower and drown after your neck breaks. I hate you more than I hate any other poster on /tg/, you fill me with a such mindless hatred that it physically pains me to not be able to jam a broke pool cue through your throat.

I luv Planescape best

>>7910542

Your exuberant use of capslocks completely makes your point for you. I don't even feel the normal compulsion I have to point out that this thread has to do with the OP's opinion and no statement of fact.

Thank you, O Mighty Fa/tg/uy for helping me see that opinions other than yours are meaningless. Your capslock button has saved my life.

Thank you.

My group still plays 2e. We only once considered switching to 3.5e, but decided to keep playing 2e for 2 reasons: First, why learn new rules if you're comfortable with what you're playing and second, why spend money on rulebooks if it is better spent on adventures? 2e stuff is also cheap on ebay.

It's cool to see that we're not alone and others too have still fun with it.

>>7911102
Oh no, it isn't opinion, it's blatant and obvious fucking fact. If you like second edition, you ARE a worthless bag of skin that deserves to die, and painfully.

>>7911031
>>7910985
>>7910542
Sure is butthurt in here.

>>7911139
No, butthurt would be raging at something that isn't objectively subhuman.

>>7911123
I switched to 3e after it came out and played it for a while. It just never seemed to click, and I lost interest in tabletop gaming for a while.

I ended up getting back into it after my current group of players expressed interest.

Dang, someone just brought in the Player's Handbook, the Dungeon Master's Guide, and Player's Option: Skills and Powers, for AD&D, to the store where I work... I brought them from him for $6. Is this awesome?

>>7911197
Sure, kid. Adjust your donut pillow.

>>7911226
Nah, they're pretty cheap at a used bookstore. All but the really rare game books don't sell for very much. (1e DMG/MM misprint, D&DG)

That's still about 1/2 to 1/4 of what you would pay anyway.

I played 2nd ed throughout the 90s and until about 2004

Its good enough but lets be honest it carries alot of the flaws of early D&D.Theres tons of arbitrary numbers character variety is solely provided by the DM giving out magic items and multi-classed demi-human parties are overpowered if you dont play for 5 years and get to the level cap

That being said it has some of the best supplements ever constructed and i wont run a 3.5 edition game without scrapping most of the weapon list and the "exotic weapon" feats and replacing them with the Combat and Tactics list of gear

always loved Valerie Valuseks artwork. Sadly the caracter card illus from the Menzoberranzan boxed set are the only colored ones I own

>character variety is solely provided by the DM giving out magic items

Its got space bugs, its got cyborgs and technomancers, its got skeletons, ghosts, and liches, its got ninjas, its got dinosaur paladins, its got angel and dragon PCs... and in practice they're all pretty well balanced, as opposed to Rifts.

>demi-human parties are overpowered if you dont play for 5 years and get to the level cap

Hope you like slow as shit advancement and no weapon mastery bro.

>>7911400
>Theres tons of arbitrary numbers character variety is solely provided by the DM giving out magic items
I won't tell you you're doing it wrong, however you have fun is however you have fun. But there are ways to accomplish it I consider more effective than, and prefer vastly to, having different gear than the other dude.

>>7911400
the level cap for demihumans (and the reason for it, their special abilities) always bugged me, mainly because it doesn't solve the problem for, say, 15 levels. I think that the problem with demihumans being so powerful can be solved by applying an XP-malus, which is what we're doing.

for my group we have a few house rules, one of them being a 3e-ish saving throw system, which is currently playtested.

I'm currently running a 2e capaign with some new gamers, who've already been burned by 3e and want a "new system".. Which 2e certainly qualifies for.

As yet, they love it, and the added structure makes DMing ever so much more fun. I've houseruled a few things (reorganized the class/race rules, swapped in some stuff for Gnames and Halflings to differentiate them from Dwarve, and added in the Slayers campaign version of Mages as "Sorcerors". Works like a charm.

>>7911551
Well we've been playing Dark Sun for about a month, and the highest levelled PCs, are level 7 human warriors with high mastery. The multiclassed demihumans are lagging behind.

>>7911479
and two human fighters using longswords will always play the exact fucking same

>>7911566
that sounds interesting, the "reorganized the class/race rules" part in particular. could you go into the details a bit?

>>7909560
>>7906596

Fast paced? Please, explain this to me. I've never played anything but 3.5 and I'd love to know if there's a way to speed things up.

Also, THACO... I hear horror stories about it but how complex is it really? What exactly is involved?

>>7911597
Spouting bullshit don't make it true, bub. A dual wielding lightly armored swordsman is certainly going to play differently than a heavily armored guy with a sword and body shield.

>>7911614
its not that hard. you have a level based thac0-score. add magical bonus, specialisation bonus and bonus from your strenght score. Roll d20, determine AC hit. from what I hear its not that different from 3.5e.

>>7909123
>>7909511

Jesus Christ, Unholy Clown, you are the man. You can fuck my sister any time.

>>7911479

Thats alot of extra books your piling on there if your bringing up things like the Ninjas handbook or Saurials and no they really arent balanced most of them are slightly variations on existing classes while the Theif/Bard/Druid/Ranger are still craptastic.Generally speaking the Fighter will still bash things with his long sword[The uber weapon that makes all others pointless along with Longbows and Darts] the cleric will heal and miss thing sin combat half the time the Mage will own if hes not being hugged and the Thieves will suck

Slow as hell advancement goes out the window when everyone playing realizes that multiclassed Fighter/Clerics and Figher/Mages go up at about the same pace.Weapon Specialization is the ONLY thing Human FIGHTERS have going for them

>>7911492

Im not saying anything about not enjoying the game i DID play for over a decade but it also showed me alot of shortcomings.Like the way past a certain point saving throws are almost a formality and fighters never miss anymore

>>7911614
It doesn't suffer as much from hp bloat, no AOOs, no feats, etc.

If you want to bring in ideas to speed up 3e then capping HD is your best bet, and lowering HD/HP for monsters.

>Also, THACO... I hear horror stories about it but how complex is it really? What exactly is involved?
It's unintuitive but not complex. You have to roll over your THAC0 - target AC, as opposed to rolling and adding your bonus to hit and getting over the target AC.

>>7911614
You know how BAB-AC in 3e is addition? In 2e it's subtraction. Whether or not someone has trouble with THACO is a good way to detect morons.

>>7911705
summarizes the "problem" way better than my post above. I never understood why it is a problem for ppl that smaller numbers mean better armor.

>>7911653

Yeah he will die because without optional rules from the Fighters handbook he has shitastic AC which the fully armored guy doesnt worry about unless for some reason hes underwater.With optional rules from the FH he gets a +2 AC iunarmored which is just FANTASTIC

>>The game starts with a very clean and no nonsense combat system that makes combat absolutely fly by, and it gives you the option to plug in and add features to combat if you want to to add complexity and options to play. Because it's so much less tied down, you can get away with less reliance on the rules, and get back into the role playing side of things.

GURPS

>>7911653
yes, and two fighters using similar gear should have some level of mechanical differentiation, you shitslurping fucktard.

>>7911705
>no feats

and thus no way to differentiate abilities outside of the overly specific kits that often don't make a lick of fucking sense

>>7911675
>Darts
I agree that they shouldn't have had str damage added by default if they were going to retain the previous rate of fire setup.
>Like the way past a certain point saving throws are almost a formality
This is one of the things I particularly like. I really don't care much for the upscaling or static scaling approaches. This is one of the reasons I really don't care for C&C.

>>7911800
Take a closer look at the proficiencies and choke yourself.

>>7911830
Sigil FTW!

>>7911800

Now to be fair SOME of them were fun.The Swashbuckler the Gallant a good number of the Paladin kits etc.

Not enough effort was put into alot of the books though and Id be hard pressed to name a single Mage kit

>>7911827

Yeah I can claim my character cooks or weaves in my downtime

>>7911827
Ah yes, I can add a few static bonuses or use different weapons that really only result in different damage values. Also, this is what I'm talking about with EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU fuckers acting like a pompous bitch about your game of choice. YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND MY DEEP AND COMPLEX GAME, KILL YOURSELF. Here's a fucking pro-tip: your game is an unplaytested pile of shit that will never be good.

Anyone have any of the art from the old Elves handbook for AD&D? It was first or second edition, and it had a section on drow... Except all the male ones had big handle bar mustaches! I'd kill for that art, lol

Anyway, all this talk of 2e makes me happy .Good to know the system that gave me gems like Dark Sun still kicks and lives on in the lives of other gamers.

>>7911864
bawwwwww!

>>7911875
certainly will live on here for a while!

>>7911744
It's strange because people generally have a bigger=better thought process. Frankly I dropped THAC0, and it probably would have been dropped regardless of whether or not WoTC bought them up before TSR released it's original idea of 3rd.

>>7911895
Yeah, that's right, rather than addressing criticism to your "perfect" system you just act like I'm bawwing without cause. I hate you, I wish I could slit your mother's throat.

>>7911741
>>7911705
>>7911655

Ok, that doesn't sound hard at all. But it also doesn't sound any faster. So what made the combat streamlined and quick then?

>>7911910
I was quite active in a 2E forum back then when 3E came out. I was quite surprised that this was the main reason why ppl switched. Suddenly everyone and his dog started complaining about THAC0 being complex, counterintuitive and stuff. Kinda funny that _noone_ seemed to have a problem with it _before_ 3E was released.

>>7911608
Basically, 2e went through and randomly restricted race/class combinations willy-nilly, with no real logic to it. I've reorganized that into logical bands of restrictions, with rules for violating them.
Basically, the class is "restricted" to a certain level for that race. For every point of Prime Requisite above 12, you can advance one more level in the class: multi-requisite classes average out the PR scores. So, for example, you're a Ranger with 14 con, 17 str, 15 dex, and 15 wis. Your average is 4 points over Prime Requisite.
Also, you're one lucky motherfucker, but that's beside the point.
Multi-class characters don't get the bonus: they stop advancing in one if they hit the cap, but can still apply XP towards the other class until they cap out. Since almost all dualies in all races can hit the twenties anyway, this isn't really an issue for most DMs.

The logic: Each race has one or more classes that are iconic, things that they are known for throughout literature. Elven fighters and Mages, Gnomish Illusionists, Halfling rogues.
There needs to be a way for that race to hit epic level.
(continued)

>>7911931
>Oh dear, I seem to think I'm held accountable for anonymously slinging bullshit about a system and don't want my reputation to be tarnished by getting called on said bullshit. Better switch to slinging mud against the people who enjoy it.

>>7911952

Indeed BAB is just Thac0 in reverse and with no cap for ACs

planescape had the best art and flavor of all d&d

>>7911958
So, as in the 1e system, some races have no restricitions on a certain class. Others, such as Dwarven and Elven Fighters, are restricted to level 15, the first band of restrictions. Only a talented member of the class is going to solo all the way to Epic level, but the option is there.
Restricted/15 means that there's a lot of potential, but some difficulty in the way of that last push: you need to break far and away from your race to make it all the way to the top.
For Half-elves, for example, Ranger is R15. There's a lot of natural talent, but not necessarily racial excellence.
Restricted 12 is the next tier: this is things for which the race is suited, but not necessarily brilliant. Dwarves' natural mechanical ability makes them fantastic Rogues with certain kits, but there's not really a Legendary Dwarf out there picking locks: most off them are out smashing in heads and drinking. Likewise, the Dwarven lack of, ahem, fervor locks down Dwarven Clerics in this realm.
Restricted 9 is for other classes that aren't barred, but are seldom taken by the race, and may slightly violate the general concept of it. Halfling Fighters and Rangers are here, as are Gnomish Mages.
Barred is for classes that simply don't fit, and counter one of the basic principles of the race: Dwarf mages being the prime example.

xChan Directory Dumper v2a

>>7912068

Love the art love the setting and campaign possibilities hate the shitty slang and the "Lets make gods invulnerable to everything so we dont piss off anyone religious" crap

>>7911958
>>7912087

sounds like a good solution, thx for sharing some details

>>7912087

Two minor quibbles

1] I always found the fluff ridiculous.The long lived races can do tons of things at once for more immediate rewards while Humans the short lived race gets long term rewards

2] Dwarves in legend were pretty magical little buggers and designed most of the armaments for the Norse Gods.

>>7911875
I think I have a scan. Lemme check.

>>7911653
>A dual wielding lightly armored swordsman is certainly going to play differently than a heavily armored guy with a sword and body shield.
In AD&D? No. One will have a lower AC and one will roll more attacks. That's about it.

>>7912087
As with anything else in my campaigns, a lot of the "restriction" is more there to reinforce players in their roleplaying choices. Certain kits might bump your restriction up or down a notch, but I didn't want to go through literally thousands of pages to write up all the race/class combinations. Exercise some common sense - a Halfling Pit Fighter, no matter how awesome his background, is going to struggle a little to push past his naturally fat, happy, and lazy disposition..

Anyway, once you break the Restriction, advancing to the "talent" bonus levels takes another 50% EXP over the norm. Advancing beyond that takes 3 times the XP it normally would.
More on racial bonii in a moment, I need to go find my notebook.

>>7912112
Never liked the slang thing either.

I'd love to play in a planescape campaign, but never found a DM. I think I'm the only one obsessed with the planes in my group.

>>7912112
>Planescape
>gods invulnerable

lolno

>>7912087
>want to play a dwarven wizard? FUCK YOU! Our fluff is the only weay!

>>7912167
Yeah but that's also the case in 3e, so whatever.

>>7912173

Dont worry about the Halfling Pit Fighter problem that wont come up since nobody has ever played Halflings when they were fat lazy Tolkien style Housemaids for real races

>>7911951
It's weird, I'd probably have to sit down and start playing 3e again to get everything down.
Anyway, combat was most certainly not streamlined, and I'm not entirely certain what all is involved in the play speed. Those are just off the top of my head and stick out the most.
>>7911952
You might want to dig up Gamma World 4e. It basically had BTH, but called it THAC.
(I insist on calling it that in my current game as well. It has a nice meaty sound to it.)

>>7911127
>>7911031
>>7910985
>>7911197
>>7911931


Wow, so many butthurt whiney ass troll attempts... so few people rising to the bait of this fuckhead.

Good on you all..

to the Troll... your failure in this thread is manifest.

>>7912167
Bitches don't know about my Reaction Adjustment.

Seriously. A sword/board fighter gets shield bashes, goes between 3 and 5 initiative ahead of the 2-hander, and gets more attacks. The 2-hander hits like a freight train and gets some tactical flexibility the s&b doesn't have (moving after the enemy, no AoO in this edition = picks and chooses targets). He'll also tend to go right before the mages, which means he can back them up while they're casting, whereas the S&B fighter will have to hold initiative for it.

>>7912231
>one has slightly more initiative
Oh, how different.

OK, I was wrong, I don't have a copy of the Complete Book of Elves.

Here's my collection, though, so if you see something that's not on /rs/, I'll be happy to upload it.

well, if every 2-bit planar with a magic sword could kill a god, why even call them gods?

>>7912245
>complete book of elves
HONEY LEATHER

>>7912192

In the 2nd ed version of Deities and demigods they specifically mention all combat stats are just avatars and the actual gods themselves cant be so much as annoyed by PCs.Planescape was filled with that as well.This was also around the time words like Demon and Devil were removed so they didnt piss of protesters that likely died of old age in the late 80s

>>7912245
The PDF is pretty much the text from the Core Rules CD, and doesn't have pics.
>>7911875
Have an EotB Drow instead.

>>7912261
wat. The Neutral Evil outsiders (Can't remember their names, god damnit. They were badass, the mercenaries of the Blood War.) killed the fuck out of a god when he tried to take their turf and built a city out of his corpse.

>>7912261
While it's true that you can't just run up and stab a god to death, it is possible to bring about the death of a god. Planescape hints at many ways that this can be done.

Gods are sustained by belief, after all.

>>7912246
because they wire spells to clerics, the only counter to undead and to dying.

>>7912173
Common sense and roleplaying, exactly. I'm playing a halfling thief/wild mage in our current round. We share the "burden" of DMing, so I asked the others if that would be possible, even if it is not allowed by the rules. Ppl thought it could be fun, so we agreed upon that I'd have to pay double the XP for a wild mage level - a solution which works good as far as I can tell.

That was always our first rule: If it's fun, do it - nevermind the rules.

>>7912231

Reaction adjustments were optional just like weapon speed and shield bashing [Which was worthless].Even then having marginally higher initiative hardly mattered unless you were the designated dart thrower there to hurl your infinite darts at the opposing mage

The twohanded weapon using fighter attacking once every other round for 1D10 damage instead of every round for 1D8 was worthless.A dual wielder was usually overpowered because Fighters[and many monsters] just stop missing eventually so number of attacks was more important than even the bonus AC from magical shields

Okay, THAC0

Here's how it works, it's really very simple.

Unarmored is AC10, all improvements in AC are subtracted from this number. So better AC's are lower.

THAC0 is based on your level and class, that's to hit AC 0.

You add all your bonuses and minuses together with the AC score, and SUBTRACT that from your THACO score.

For example, if your THAC0 is 19 and you are attacking AC10, have a strength to hit bonus of +1. a weapon bonus of +2 and let's say a specialization bonus of +2 you have 10+1+2+2=15
you take THAC0 of 19, subtract 15 and you have a score of 4, you must roll a 4 or better to hit.

That's it.

If you had to hit a monster with let's say a -5 ac, it would be -5+1+2+2 or 0
THAC0 19-0=19
That's it... that's all there is to it. You just keep track of what kind of bonuses you have, or minuses and just add them up.

All the horror stories you've heard about how "difficult it is" are pretty much just a bunch of hot air.

>>7912193
Dwarves are inherently magic-resistant, and high-level dwarves can become essentially immune to it.

>>7912323
Good on you, man, I approve. I imagine he's an annoying but awesome little (probably literal) motherfucker.

>>7912296

Yeah great a McGuffin is more important than my character.Best if I have to beg Eliminster or Kelban for it too since they were 15 levels higher than the highest level PCs because Wizrads said we should be humbled

>>7912347
LOL what? Two handers hit every round, too. All an off hand weapon ever does is add an attack a round in exchange for lower damage, especially on AoOs.

>>7912347
The thing you're missing is that, just like in 3.5, a lot of the "optional rules" flags to help you get a feel for combat and GMing until you're ready to actually play.

Also, a Specialized fighter with a 2-hander is hitting at 3/2 at LEVEL ONE with a 2-handed weapon. Read the rules a little more carefully next time, before you spout the fuck off.

>>7912347
>every other round for 1D10
Weapon Speed Factor doesn't work that way.

No takers?

I've got a pretty wide spread

>>7912428

10 god damn years too late for me to learn that.Had a 1st ed killer DM that was my first experience with the game for me and all the local kids.I thought we had sorted out all the fake shitty rules and were playing right but apparently i left one out

Apologizes all around but still 1 damage on average more doesnt really sound worthwhile

>>7912368
It's a she actually, but annoying... well, yes, some of the bad guys surely regreted meeting her :D Great fun to play, she's a bit of a sunshine for the party. The wild mage class gives her a bit of a mysterious flavor, because she doesn't know why Mystra (or who else might be responsible) gave her that ability - and I don't know either. I'll wait for a DM coming up with an explaination. :D

A two handed swordsman will deal 3d6 vs most monsters instead of the 1d12 of a guy with a longsword.

In the high tier, where an archmage can spare a +200% enlarge for every fighter in the party, the zweihander will be dealing 9d8 with 3/1 attack rates. Said 9d8 will be also used for the many AoO's you'll have from being large or huge.

The dual wielder will deal 3d20 a hit, with a 4/1 attack rate.

All in all, a two handed swordsman is probably inferior to start with but gets a lot better than the dual wielder at higher levels and if buffed.

>>7912500
Sorry dude, indecision hits. So much cool stuff.

>>7911875
that what you had in mind?

>>7912548
The big selling point for the 2hander is against large creatures like ogres, giants, and dragons.

>>7912621
oh snap

DEM HANDLES

>>7912649
yup. all of my (2, lol) fighters used them because of that.

Anyway, certain race's bonuses always seemed.. silly, for lack of a better word. Especially the shorter ones, which were functionally identical (halflings get several more bonuses, at the "price" of potentially losing half their infravision range).

Halflings:
+1 to hit with all simple ranged weapons
+1 to save on any saving throw that involves mental or physical endurance, other than specific saves Vs. Poison: in addition, add +1 to the roll for the duration/onset time for all diseases and poisons. If there is no roll, add one unit (day, turn, round) to the onset/stage duration: this is considered to be Stage 1 for any multi-stage diseases or poisons.
Halflings retain their surprise bonus (which also applies in urban areas: if you look 12, you're not going to be taken seriously by a lot of folks...), and their Con-based bonus to saves vs poison.
Halflings also have uniform 30' infravision.

Makes the little shits just as hard to eradicate as they should be, and definitely fits the source material.
Classes (base):
Rogue: Unr.
Paladin: No.
Mage: R9
Fighter: R9
Ranger: R9
Cleric: R9
Druid: R12

>>7912500
The Forgotten Realms book would be a good place to start. Never seen the 2E one, and I have a soft spot for the Realms you can blame on Baldur's Gate 2 and that old trilogy of TSR novels with Finder in. Spells and Magic would be good, too.

>>7912704
Hm, just checked /rs/ after posting hastily, looks like the FR book is there.

>>7912736
there's also a torrent out there with all of the TSR products for those interested:

http://isohunt.com/download/58794421/TSR+D%26D+Products.torrent

I have volumes 1 & 3 of the Wizard's spell compendium, and 2 & 3 of the Priest's.
What I would like is a scan of the REAL 2e PHB, not the damn .rtf that people made (not that I don't have 3 already, but...) and of the missing books up there.
I also have the original, full-scale map of Waterdeep, although I may be missing a page or two. Lost the key a long time ago, but I'd be willing to scan what I can find.

>>7912772
It's severely incomplete. The Elves handbook is missing a half-dozen pages, the PHB is the aforementioned RTF, and a lot of the interesting secondary books are missing. Nonetheless, I'll start reseeding it on opentracker.

>>7912786
RS of the 2 PHBs incoming

Archiving thread 7906596
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FOR GREAT JUSTICE! This is how /tg/ should work! Just look at the poor underfed trolls starving under their bridges!

>>7912786
psst >>7909511

>>7912808
Well, if I remember I got mine from that torrent and my complete elves is complete and I have the 2 PHBs as original scans. There is more than 1 such a torrent out there, a friend of mine got another one, which isn't sorted that well and also has some of the RTFs you mention.

>>7912612

Lets not forget Haste as well if we are gonna cover buffs.More attacks and aging that a demi-human wont even notice?Yes please

>>7912907
System Shock.
Elf + Haste = Very dead unraisable elf

I should redownload the RTF ones just for using on the Sony Reader I have lying around. Proper scanned PDFs tend to be completely unreadable on it.

>>7912933
if you get hasted you don't have to do a system shock roll AFAIK

>>7912974
In 2e, every time you were magically aged you had to take a system shock test. Often forgotten, but yeah. Haste can kill you.

>>7913000
hmm, I possibly missed that. Any idea where I can find that rule?

>>7913054
Yeah - I don't have the handbook anymore to search through for the exact terms, but if you do it should be under the entry detailing system shock. It's not in spell descriptions, or anywhere else, which is why it's often missed.

>>7912786

>What I would like is a scan of the REAL 2e PHB

I have a non-OCR scan of the PHB, with actual pictures. Not the text-only version in the gigantic 3000 page pdf.

Gimme a minute to upload it.

>>7912933

To be fair that would count for everyone from the -1 Con Elf to the +1 Con Dwarf.Your still usually going to survive it though as anyone worth hasting wont use Con as a dump stat

>>7913107
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ETC7LC3C

That was fast. Here it is.

2E Player's Handbook scan, everybody

>>7913111
The big problem for Elves, however, is that "Raise Dead" doesn't work on them. I don't recall if Resurrection or Reincarnation do the trick, but yeah... Pain in the arse, if you're not mindful.

To continue my racial abilities reset:
Gnomes:
Because of their frequent exposure to (often sophisticated) illusions, and natural talent for them, a Gnome always realizes an illusion cast upon him is such on a roll of a 1 on 1d6: if he is actively looking for flaws, he finds them on a 1 or 2 on 2d6. Such active scrutiny requires the gnome to be close enough (within 10') of the spell's area of effect to notice the minor and subtle flaws that accompany any illusion.
Gnomes retain their giant-fighting bonus, as well as racial hatred bonuses: the GM may replace these as appropriate, of course.
In addition, Gnomes gain a +1 bonus to all non-weapon proficiency checks related to a handicraft or mechanical ability in which they are proficient.
Gnomes retain some of the talents of their Dwarven brethren:
The magic-use penalty for gnomes is reduced to a 5% chance of failure for any magic item, and thier saving throw bonus is reduced to +1 for every 5 points of Con, rounding down.
Classes:
Fighter: R12
Ranger: R9
Paladin: No.
Cleric: R9
Druid: R9
Rogue: R12
Mage: R15
Illusionist: Unr

>>7913119
Thanks much, and to all the others who posted the scan.
>>7912864
Really? I may have to check it out then.

>>7913075
yeah, found it in the PHB. "magical aging". interesting, playing for 15 years and never stumbled on this rule.

http://rapidshare.com/files/345609331/TSR_2101_Player_s_Handbook__Original_Printing_.pdf

PHB, First Printing

second printing uploading now

>>7913158
Res and Reincarnation both work. Although convincing your new, 15th-level Badger party member that it's all for the best can be difficult. Phrases like "one with the Natural World" and "Proper tree-hugger" should be avoided at all costs.

Bleh, you guys are getting caught up in the number crunching. There's more to it than that and you know it. I don't care that my human fighter will eventually be outclassed by the spellcasters or that I 'just roll 2d4 every round'.

Maybe it's just me but I find the simplicity of the system encourages rping.

>>7913201
Only reason I knew of it off the top of my head was because I was part of a long-running group a few years back that played 1st (and later gradually shifted into 2nd) edition and my brother pretty much read those damn things cover to cover so he could spout off a rule. Which sounds annoying, but considering our DM...

I'm getting off topic. The things you miss, eh?

>>7913261
I miss nothing, I'm GM'ing a 2e campaign right now :P
Only thing I really miss is my old gaming group from my Navy days: even though 4 of us are in the same state now, we're still too damn far away to run a game every now and again.

>>7913261
yup. which reminds me of my lvl 20 Priest which used a quarterstaff as weapon. about a month ago or so (the char is a NPC for 2 years now) I realized the initiative factor for the staff was too high - 3 points or so. I must have made a mistake when building the char and never checked it again. And I fought a lot with that staff...

>>7913240
heh, imagine a 15th level wizard badger with all the memories of an elf wizard.

>>7913325
Well, that was more to the obscure bits of rules that are easily overlooked (apologize to your players for me next time they cast haste), but I do sometimes look back on my badass character and miss him. He was shelved while still alive (again) though, so I consider it a plus.

>>7913419

There were lots of disorganized obscure rules just like that,I may have moved onto 3.5 but I have no regrets for the decade+ I spent playing 2nd ed especially considering we never had a campaign as good as they ones we had back then

>>7913257Maybe it's just me but I find the simplicity of the system encourages rping.


That right there pretty much is it. 2e was lots easier to rp with.

>>7913511

You cant make rules for roleplaying/You could roleplay in FATAL as well as you could in WOD or 2nd ed regardless of the rules

>>7913419
>apologizing
I guess I'll simply tell them and then we'll see what we do about it. We played a long time without that rule and it worked, so we can also keep it that way. Or we decide to play by the rules. Since I'm not the one playing a lot of fighters I don't care too much. I can live with both.
>shelved while still alive (again)
It's that way with all characters I know of. Everyone was resurrected at least once. That reminds me of that old joke: "How does a gravestone of an AD&D character look like?"

Like this:
Anon Ymous
1980 - 2000, 2001, 2003 (2x), 2005 (irrevocable)

bumpin for great thread

It's at autosage. It's died as it lived, in greatness.

>>7912364
Ahh thanks for explaining that so concisely, it does seem pretty easy.

finally, PHB revised edition

http://rapidshare.com/files/345624542/TSR_2159_Player_s_Handbook__Black__revised__Printing_.zip