Yeah, it's been done right before.

>>8580336
more like turned to neutral, bro

The stories about Alicia and her reformed erinyes sidekick were nice, because they never fucked. It was just two badass chicks wrecking evil dudes.

Succubi should probably be good to begin with, or at least goodish. In 3E, the pleasure domain is the hallmark of good gods, not evil ones. From a mythological perspective, they were evil... according to self-loathing medieval monks, and we would be evil by the same standards. So typically CN or CG.

Imagining an extraplanar being that is the embodiment of the female sex drive as something evil and destructive takes a little bit of work. You could have a naga style demon (or just give this behavior to mariliths) that seems like a largely benevolent seductive being but loves cuddling so much that you're probably going to slowly be crushed to death afterwards.

Or have succubi who are fangirls of the PC party, and attempt to mind control people them into "having the courage to act out their repressed yaoi fantasies"

>>8580422
I never got why the sex demon was female. In medieval societies females were more an object of lust than a source for it.

Just liked projecting everything bad on the women I guess. And incubi are less appealing to the modern fanbase....

>>8580437

Being a sex demon isn't incompatible with being a sex object. Succubi were just excuses for nocturnal emissions. They weren't real people, like men.

>>8580422
There's a passion archon in a 3rd party book for 3.5. The concept is sort of like that.

>Or have succubi who are fangirls of the PC party, and attempt to mind control people them into "having the courage to act out their repressed yaoi fantasies"

Oh wow. Scary.

An idea I had a while back.

Succubi. Demons. Fallen angels.
War in Paradise. Angels who defied the will of the LORD were cast out, to spend eternity following their new leader, Lucifer, He who fell furthest, He who fell first.

For a while at least, all was well with the underworld. Eventually, though, some of the fallen began to dissent. They knew they were damned, yes - they could never again know the embrace of the Divine, a light and a softness and complete love, but they should not have to follow the will of something utterly evil because they had wavered once in their devotion to Good.

It took centuries for these thoughts to gather enough strength to spur them into action, but eventually the Succubi and Incubi, the demons who spent the most time contemplating the actions of Man, were united in their opposition to Satan. They could never be forgiven - the LORD had spoken, and his word is infallible, but they could show Him that they were not a lost cause, and perhaps be granted His love once more. Even if they could not, it was the right thing to do - Angels can fall from grace; Demons can rise from corruption.

It was the ultimate sacrifice. Giving up their place in Hell, with nowhere to wander but the earth. They could be destroyed here, a fate worse than any damnation, but it was here they could do their work. Slipping into positions of power, guiding the human race in the works of the LORD, shielding them from sin. Those who understood so perfectly how to make humans turn to sin, turn away from the LORD, they were best equipped to undo their own work and make humanity flourish under the banner of the Lamb.

TL;DR alternative industrial revolution with divine magic, a ruling caste of demons, and the humans who make this ultimate sacrifice and become immortal, unable to enter heaven, to help ensure that most ascend to Paradise.

>>8580589
Oh man, if I had interest in settings where God is Real And Good, I would be at church right now.

>>8580589
FUND IT

>>8580589
THat's pretty good.

>>8580589
PROCEED.

>>8580619
We must have a different God. Mine is only Real and Good 1/3rd of the time. The rest of the time he's CLEANSE PURGE KILL.

>>8580619
Hey, people asked for interesting settings with succubi who aren't evil or just supersexualised things, I came up with one. If I ran this game, God wouldn't be a particularly tangible force, but something more akin to gravity - The idea of an omniscient, omnipotent divine being is one that the mortal mind doesn't really do very well. Sure, someone can try to contact god, but he'll probably just go pop.

>>8580701

Yeah, Moses has to look away from God if I remember right. Even then, he glows with divine fire when he comes down from the mountain.

>>8580422

...You're kind of missing the point here. Succubi were evil because they ATE YOUR DICK.

>>8580710
Yep, someone else has a prohpetic dream where to speak to the lord, a coal from a brazier carried by a seraph is pressed to his lips to cleanse them.

>>8580437

Incubi just plain aren't as well known (to the point that Nike accidentally named a women's shoe after them rather recently). So the two types generally just get folded into one succubi category these days.

>>8580422

Well, they're on the devil side instead of the demon side. Does that count as "goodish"?

>>8580945
the demon/devil distinction is a D&D cosmology thing. This would be a setting where morality is far more complex. It'd have to just a a GM-administered thing instead of a "List of actions with good/bad and law/chaos points" and moving around a 3x3 grid.

I can try thinking more about this setting if you want. If there's no interest I'll go have a shower and fiddle with myself instead.

>>8580945
Only since 4e. And no, not really. The primary difference between devils and demons is that devils are calculating. They have a plan, they want power. Demons just want to fuck shit up. Thye do it for the lulz.

So the difference between succubi as demons and devils is basically the difference between sluts and bitches.

>>8581091
I for one find it intriguing

>>8581091
>implying that you weren't going to fiddle with yourself anyway

>>8581091
Do carry on, I am intrigued by your prospects.

I think the most important motivation for a Succubus turning would be to just ask "why?". Much like how a Paladin could fall by questioning the values and morals he possesses, a Succubus could ascend by questioning the motives and actions they undertake.

>>8581116
currently living in small 4-room apartment while our house is cleaned of asbestos. I'd have to either get to the shower or wait for everyone else to go out, hence my being here and not in one of the many porn threads.

So we have the concept of God being infallible. However, infallibility infers perfection - In short, god is perfect because he says he is, the universe becomes one where he is perfect; or possibly the universe required a perfect god. One or the other, or a bit of both. I'd not run a game where players can easily interact with god, instead having things be less understandable as they get closer to him. Less like humans, more abstract in appearance and how they communicate, until you get something like Thrones or that one blue angel from eva - not suggesting I'd run this like eva, just noting it.

This thread is relevant to my interests... and I would run the HELL out of that setting.

>>8581274
THEN DO IT

>>8581274
Question. How in tarnations do ya make hell itself run?

anyone got the comic of the succubus standing outside the church grounds, Shouting "I DO"?

You might want to read Childhood's End by Arthur C Clarke. Cut and pasted from tvtropes:

>Childhood's End is a novel by Arthur C Clarke, originally published in 1953 (but based off of a 1950 short story of his). The plot concerns the Benevolent Alien Invasion of a race called the Overlords. After stopping the Cold War and establishing a world government, they maintain peace on Earth, but refuse to show themselves for fifty years. Humanity enters a golden age, before spoilery events happen. Yeah, you can't read much more than that without the entire plot being given away.

spoiler: they look like demons

>>8580336

Agreed, for the Succubus turned good concept to work, she has to be chaste. There's just no way around it. Any sexuality with reformed succubus is courting her old ways and will lead to a relapse.

>>8581376
One of two ways. Either a strange reversal of heaven. Like the high and mighty, Satan can see the bigger picture, and instructs legions of demons to do seemingly strange things, and obviously evil things, with the overall goal of some kind of massive corruption of humanity, trying to get the majority of humanity into hell by the time the final battle occurs, so they have the advantage, or working to actively undo heaven's work and prolong the time before the final battle.

For the first, Lucifer is trying to become God but evil.
For the second, he's simply trying to defy God at every turn, and preventing humanity from experiencing the rapture would be the defiance of God's ultimate with - to have his greatest creating thusfar, humanity, become pure enough to enter paradise.

Now, this brings me on to the fall of humanity. This will take a few minutes to write up.

>>8580437
You're wrong. In medieval society, women were considered to b the lustier gender. As opposed to today, where we think that men just want all sex all the time.

>>8580437
Fun fact: in the medieval era, women were percieved as the more lustful sex, an attitude which has reversed in modern times

>>8581509
>>8581489
accuratemedievalattitudestowardgendermind

>>8581445
These Succubi don't need to be completely chaste - however, they're specifically trying to make humanity *not sin*. It's not a case of the succubi watching out for themselvses, but overusing their control over human sexuality could lead to humans falling deep into sinful ways.

They're perfectly aware of their effects on people, and will use their general charm to sway people. If they fall in love, nothing wrong with that. These succubi aren't like druggies who need a constant flow of souls and/or sex, they got on perfectly fine without that when they were in the service of the lord.

>>8581489
>>8581509
thanks modern Christianity for fucking that one up

I'm confused, are we talking about D&D succubi or the actual succubi of medieval lore and legend?

It sounds like we are slowly creating a hybrid of the two that's more D&D than the actual myths. If we are going to discuss actual mythological succubi, we need to get some things out of the way.

1. The Succubus of medieval legend was a hideous, malformed thing that looked like a shriveled old woman.

2. Succubi have no physical form and come to humans in dreams.

Just thought I would get that out there.

>>8581489
>>8581509
So... according to medieval gender roles, women were -4str, -4int +8horny, lesser beings of decreased physical and intellectual capabilities, but with a big interest in what was going on between their legs?

>>8581640

Well that's actually the RENAISSANCE conception of women. Women in the Dark Ages had a BETTER social position and could actually do things like own property during the "backward" Dark Ages. Rights that they LOST during the "more advanced" Renaissance.

>>8581627
weren't the original succubi those harpy like spawns that came to battlefields to feed on the dead. If there was no war, they went on a manhunt for whoever was unsafe at night?

>>8581532
Okay, back to the fall of humanity.

Humans can go to heaven. Demons cannot.
Why? Humans are more fallible. Easier to corrupt. More flexible. We were created without knowledge of good and evil, simply being that carried out the divine will as best they could understand it.
Then, through lies and coaxing, we were given that knowledge and made to violate divine will. Original sin.
However, adam and eve became aware that they had sinned, became aware that they were nude and that their bodies were shameful, and hid for fear of retribution. This shows a lack of understanding of the divine: Literally trying to hide from an omnipresent being. So why did God allow this to happen? Well, we can't understand that. Possibly the war in heaven and the fall of satan and his angels was intended. The more you perceive god as a divine machine, one with the universe, the more you get the feeling that everything happens for a reason.

Back to the fall of man. We were impure now, and unfit to live in paradise, so we were cast out. Here some strange shit happens, as we encountered other humans despite being the first ones created. The habitat was being shaped for us. The Lord was still watching. Cain slew Abel and had a mark placed upon his forehead granting him immortality as punishment. One who cannot die cannot enter paradise, no matter how long he atones. He may be important in this setting. The flood occurs due to the sinfulness of man, a minor reset button, and a new set of humans repopulate from the few of them, this time more knowledgeable than the first set of humans. This pruning helps guide us, and God is more careful to control his wrath.

Essentially, humanity can be saved because humanity can CHOOSE to sin or to follow God. That choice defines us in His eyes. Angels were created purely to follow, so the act of rebelling is a complete one, there is nothing within them to save, or nothing worth saving. More can be called forth, anyway.

>>8581706
I am well aware that I'm bending the ideas of the bible, mixing concepts of evil spirits in with demons and all that. For the purposes of this setting, succubi are fallen angels like the rest of the demons under lucifer's command. Not exactly the creatures of myth, definitely not the D&D things.

>>8581664

There are many Succubus myths from all over the world and each myth may have several variations. However, NONE of the actual myths and legends bears even the slightest resemblance to the porn star with wings that /tg/ has fetishized. That is purely a creation of Gary Gygax puerile imagination.

I'm not dissing /tg/, I must confess that I have one hell of a succubus/tiefling/devil girl fetish myself. Hell, I once took my girlfriend shopping for prosthetic horns. She thought it was for Halloween.

>>8581664

The original succubi were just plain monsters. They got gradually conflated with other, vaguely similar creatures, such as Asmodeus's "spirits of the air", moved from a scary story to a moral lesson, and were adopted into demonology. At some point along the line, they stopped just being monsters and got sexy.

Okay. So, now the succubi running earth in secret. Something like the illuminati, guiding societies. Some of them masquerade as humans, some of them are the shadowy voices that humans answer to. We're not very aware that they run things, and while a few make themselves known, this is a calculated measure. Say this begins around when our earth hit the industrial revolution, they bring angelic magic and mix it with science, bringing the world further forward. They guide this development, and with it our changing minds, into a less sinful society.
Those who are known are eminent individuals, socialites, and whatnot. They explain that some people are being born in touch with the divine, as humanity as a whole grows closer to God, and that they're just lucky individuals, thankful for the ability to use their gifts to help others. They of course just appear to be more beautiful humans with some degree of magical ability. Other humans are given some degree of power, some learn to wield it, some discover the truth and choose, rather than having to stay quiet, to join the conspiracy. Some do so as humans, some make the great sacrifice, give up their place in heaven, and become divine being without knowledge of either heaven or hell - the angels for earth, sinless demons, a new race of grigori.

>>8581829

>At some point along the line, they stopped just being monsters and got sexy.

Other than that part where having sex with them kills you. Yeah, totally not monsters.

>>8581765

You're forgetting that they were supposed to be the source of wet dreams. So we've got the traditional view as a spirit monster that impersonates a beautiful woman in dreams, versus the fantasy view where they're a physical creature instead because, well, heroes fighting apparitions is generally less exciting than fighting something that can BLEED.

>>8581876

Note the word "just".

>>8581856

Funny thing is, the gist of what you've described (succubi illuminati running the world) is 4e default canon. They and the dragons still rule the world, but secretly, rather than openly like in the old empires.

>>8581936
Not all that knowledgeable of 4e. I've not done that much playing of 3.5 or 4e for some time, as I prefer my games to be more roleplay less rollplay - Not bashing D&D, just saying I'm more into other stuff. It was a nice gateway drug.

so the TL;DR of "good but damned succubi run the world, magi-steampunk technology but less flashy or in your face than usual, god exists, players may want to read up on kaballah and other fringe abrahamic things"

the question is now: What game, how much modification if we throw away the existing fluff, and who are the players?

>>8581856
You could also add double-fallen succubi.

Insane by the weight of their task, they knack mentally, and secretly crawl back into Satan's ranks.

They use their power over humanity for evil things, to cause misery, with war, genocide and dictatorship.

>>8581421
That book was both incredible and utterly utterly depressing.

>>8582015
Well, the idea I had was that the succubi already fell twice - from heaven and then rebelled against hell. They were kicked out of hell, but I guess satan taking them back in, now double sure of their ways, that could work.

Thankee.

And another thing, since you're making God less of an entity, why not try Satan as a vague entity?

You see, I kind of like a Danté-ian hell, where at the bottom of the seventh layer, Satan is bound in ice, forever stuck in an insane prison, in body and mind.

It's also great because without Satan, the demons would be given free reign in hell. War would rage among the demons, factions would appear.

You can even create a similar situation in Heaven, as God disappeared the angels became uncertain to what should happen.
Arguments begin, as groups of disgruntled angels argue that Jesus favours the groups that follow his words.
Tension between groups rise, until the groups split up into their own sectors in Heaven.
Voices raise up to cast renegades out of Heaven, but without the power of God no angel can be cast out of Heaven.

>>8582110
Oh shit... a triple-fallen succubus...

That would be like, horrible for your resume.

>>8582136
their morals are up and down almost as often as their underwear.

>>8580300

Here OP grab something to eat and get reading:

http://leagueofimaginaryheroes.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/sepulchraves-tales-of-wyre/

>>8582116
God is a vague entity to humans because it's such an alien concept.
I see satan as more real to humans because he's emotional in ways we understand. We can understand god's thoughts as easily as we can understand those of a block of marble, white and solid and unmoveable. Satan however is a great flame, and staring into it, we can see dancing figures, faces, things our minds can read into and humanise.

However, again, I can easily write some fluff for the idea of near-invisible god and satan as well.

The fall did more than just shear off a portion of paradise and make it foul, it created a dichotomy. Where before, God had held the monopoly on being a ruler with absolute control, there was now an opponent. Initially, Satan had a hand in everything his followers did, however, realising his mistake in not destroying Satan and his angels forever, seeing their work in corrupting humans, the LORD began to focus more and more on Satan, leaving everything else to his angels. His final gambit was to create his Son, and send him to earth to try to counteract some of the demons' work and to make himself more personal, more understandable to humans. With this done, the rest of his immense might was pointed squarely at the betrayer. God entered into a battle with Satan that transcended destructive power, something akin to the glass bead game across the entire of reality A contest of the self, the whole, and of the exterior. Words fail to describe it, my apologies for my shitty attempt. Satan had two choices - respond in kind, or be annihilated. Satan and God are now locked in this great contest, with no end in sight, leaving their underlings and servants to carry out their masters' last orders for humanity and to ponder the nature of the divine struggle.

>>8582110
Sepulchrave's Tales of Wyre (a long-running 3e/3.5e story thread on Enworld) uses a similar conceit: the devils (and the Adversary) rebelled against the Creator, and the demons rebelled and seceded from the devils (and the Adversary). Thus the Demons are called "the Twice-Fallen".

The redemption and reclamation of a succubus who falls in love with the PC paladin is also involved. Eventually she ends up Neutral -- the dedicated-to-balance Neutral, interestingly, not the wishy-washy Neutral.

>>8582136
Fans of In Nomine (which lacks succubi as distinct entities, but you can always just be a servant of the Demon of Lust) refer to these as "Yo-yos".