>>13457764

Firstly, we need to come to some sort of agreement about the Factions. I'll post the IRC's favourites soon, they're the ones at the bottom: the Servants, Masters, Rebels, Deniers and Dreamers.

We also need a better name than Factions. These groups aren't really organised enough to be called as such, they're more like schools of thought, or philosophies, but neither of those really work.

Another thing that needs work is our lists of rejections and rituals. Rejections are the supernatural abilities that Outsiders can manifest because of their link to their God: reality-warping effects or whatever. Have a look over the ones we already have and see if you can't think of some more.

Lastly, any sort of comment and criticism is cool. Especially if you're a crunch expert rules-lawyer.

Let's get shit done guys.

Here's our favoured list of "factions":

The Servants - You've been changed by forces greater than you could possibly concieve, now the only possible course of action is to do your best to serve It, or at least to do what you believe It wants. To do otherwise would be insane, if it were even possible.

The Masters - They gave you great power, but asked nothing in return. Until you're told otherwise, the best plan is clearly to use your newfound power to your own benefit in this world, whether that's acquiring money or political position, or something simpler.

The Rebels - Their biggest mistake was changing you. You've seen the promise they hold for people like you, and you reject it outright. Whether out of concern for humanity, or rage at the Thing that destroyed who you were, you'll fight Them till the ends of the Earth.

The Deniers - You're still human. That's what's important. You've been infected with this disease, this curse, but it doesn't mean you have to embrace it. You deny it, and the power it would give you by seeking to remain as human as you can and trying your best to ignore that calling.

The Dreamers - You've glimpsed something far greater than anything you could have concieved before you changed. You've seen worlds beyond our world and caught sight of the beauty and wonder they hold. You seek out these wonders, guard them from those not worthy and keep the balance between what you once called the "real" world and your new home.

>>13457777
>auspicious get is auspicious
Rather than Faction, try these ideas:
- Claims
- Symptoms
- Adherence
- Fealty
- Dominions
- Domains
- Cells
- Conspiracies
- Knots
Just a thought.

>>13457791
Suggestions for new "faction":
>Seekers
Those trying to find the meaning of their condition and/or cause. Sort of akin to a Prometheans pilgrimage, but less angst.

>Bridges
Those trying to close the gap between the worlds of their patrons and the "mundane" world. Batshit scientists with way too much money and spare time, or esoteric ritualists with too many family members and too much spare time.

>>13457817

Conspiracies and cells implies a level of organisation that just isn't there. These aren't political groups like Vampires or Mages have, there aren't enough Outsiders for that to happen. These are basically motivations for Outsiders that define their lives.

Adherences is probably my favourite from that list.

>>13457873
"Cell" also refers to tumors.

>>13457817
Schism.

Well, what's the context of using the word "Factions" in the first place-- is it just a term that's going to be used in the rules, or do we need something that can be applied to the fluff as well?

Because if it's the latter, group names which actually imply being part of a group are... misleading? In some cases, it seems, anyway. Maybe it needs a word that has to do with how people react to being touched by these outsiders... For example, which Delusion you belong to, or something similar.

I repeat my suggestion to use astrological/astronomy terms in the game as a motif, just as P;tC uses humors etc

>>13457856

Seekers could work. It isn't something that's really covered by the rest. Although Deniers maybe, especially if they're understanding themselves to cure themselves. Or rebels. Might work as a subgroup if we ever get round to those.

Bridges are pretty much Servants trying to bring their Gods back.

I remember this! I wondered where it had gone. I like "Delusions" as a way to label factions, myself.

>>13457923
>Roll your Declination to determine if you can touch him through a brick wall.

>My Ascension is high enough to absorb that chicken whole.

>>13457817
"Shards"

What about calling the different "factions"... fractions?

>>13457930
Not precisely, as I imagined them, no. I see them more as the kind of people who think it'd be a good idea to open a bunch of wormholes/portals/dimensional gates and then wander off to huff ground up bone dust. Servants sound a lot more like people who just do as they're told, whereas a Bridge would be a lot more independent, but still okay with serving in a communications role.

>>13457943
from https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Astrological_sign

The Three Qualities
The Qualities assign the Signs into Quadruplicities, three groups of four.[5] They are occasionally referred to as crosses because each quality forms a cross when drawn across the zodiac. Christian astrology relates the three qualities to the three aspects of God in the trinity.
# Cardinal signs (Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn) are associated with initiation, creativity and leadership.

# Fixed signs (Taurus, Leo, Scorpio and Aquarius) are associated with stabilization, determination, depth and persistence.

# Mutable signs (Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius and Pisces) are associated with adaptability, service-providing and expansion.[6]

There's got to be something we can use there.

It seems we still have too many holes in the skillset, do we have any examples we could stat for Rejections and such?

>>13457965
Eh, too reminiscent of math, not much else. Although... Fractures? That sounds like a good way of describing the way people split in how they handle this thing.

>>13457981
It also tastes like a fracture in reality, the basis of the game.

>>13457882

Ooh, I totally didn't get that. I like it.

>>13457894

Is also good.

>>13457905

Factions is just a placeholder term. Each WoD splat has political groupings or reactions to their conditions. Changeling's Courts is possibly the best model, except without the political aspect, since there aren't enough Outsiders for that to be important.

That's why we're trying to go for generic names that suggest a certain type of behaviour and objective.

>>13457923

I'd be totally behind this if I knew enough about astrology to do it, or to know if there's enough terms in astrology to make it work. If we can get that sort of knowledge on board then it'd be awesome.

Currently I like Schisms, Fractures and Delusions the best.

>>13458017
>I'd be totally behind this if I knew enough about astrology
Don't know, in previous threads most people were against using astrological terms.

>>13457970

Servants is a very generic term. The thing is that most of the time, the only God who actually gives comprehensible orders is Nyarlathotep. The others just don't care enough to actually give orders to Outsiders. Servants are doing what they think their Gods want, they have a feeling, a calling that they feel that they need to obey.

For some, it might be building a cult to venerate the God, or like you say, building bridges.

Servants can be just as independent anyway.

>>13457980

What, do you mean in terms of what would be rolled skills-wise to test for Rejections?

I don't know, it'd be hard to try and balance them out so that one skill wasn't particularly overpowered compared to the rest.

>>13458208
I see Composure featuring large in the majority of them.
We need to fix that. Or, I need to adjust my perception.

>>13458224
Well, when you say majority you only see a fraction of the final total, as I recall, there are currently a bunch of them that cause fear, do composure would be the logical choice for them. What we need are Rejections that do other stuff.

>>13458224

Intelligence would work for rejections involving manipulating science and so on.

Wits for rejections which involve more improvisational, dramatic things.

Resolve for outright breaking laws of science and resisting the aftereffects.

Strength for outright physical overpowering.

Dexterity for control of the moment of your own body

Stamina for manipulating your own body.

Presence for overpowering other minds.

Manipulation for bending reality

Composure for... I dunno?

It'd be kinda hard to balance those.

This are the current categories of Rejections and what they do:

Communion: Access to knowledge from outside the mortal realm.
Mindscape: Power over the conscious minds of others.
Dreamscape: Influencing dreams and have them influence reality.
Hypergeometry: The warping of space and time through symbols and spells.
Superposition: The observer influences what a given system will collapse into (Luck powers)
Polymorphism: Control over one's physical form and that of others.
Corruption: Disease & decay oriented.
Violation: Alters the basic laws of physics.

>>13458334

>Violation: Alters the basic laws of physics as understood by humanity.

Fixed.

>>13458381
true

Do I get to play Saya?

>>13458442
That would be the general idea, yes.

>>13458381
>Violation: Works the universe according to the real laws of physics that humanity can't comprehend, so technically this isn't really a rejection, just something people can't understand.

double-fixed. And should probably be re-fluffed because of the above.

I'm thinking we should have some god-specific powers, and some general ones. I noticed the powers slanted towards Yog Sothoth were rejected, so I'm gonna try some new ones.

Instant Knowledge: 1M per use

You reach through the oversoul to one of your other selves, and pull knowledge from its mind. Gain a dot (or two) of proficiency in any talent in which you have no proficiency. This ability happens outside the normal flow of time, and so you gain this knowledge immediately upon using the ability.

(So a character who's specc'd towards, say messing with minds, could pick up some firearms skill. It'd be useful to deal with challenges that nobody really prepared for, I think.)

>>13458505
Communion 1
Condition: You can only gain as much knowledge as you have points in Communion. So at Communion 5 you can gain 5 skill points, whether spread around or in a single skill it's your choice.

>>13458505

Deciding how rejections worked, whether we have only god-specific ones, or a massive list or whatever is something that still needs work. Currently, we're looking at fairly generic abilities that can be refluffed for the various Sects. Each sect gets two categories of rejections much cheaper than the rest.

I think the Yog-Sothoth rejection I noticed was rejected because it didn't really fit, fluff-wise. The Colour Out of Space is something entirely different from the Outsiders, it's another alien race.

>>13458648
Pretty much this, the color would be handled by summoning. Also the effect itself as described is pretty devastating, but it will probably be reused as a Rejection in a more scaled down version.

OC? OC! (original op/drawfag here, sorry for not being in the irc channel for such a long time, been a lazy bastard)

>>13458456
Excellent.

>>13458691

You're forgiven. It's not as if those awesome pages you illustrated will be used for a while until we actually get some solid pages to get done.

>>13458691
That is a great pic!
O_O

If that is you lazy, I want to see what you do when chained to the drawing table.

>>13458442
>>13458456

I thought the premise of this was to play as humans affected by the Horrible Unknown. Meaning that the player would be closer to Fuminori or Saya's "father".

>>13458691

I like it.

>>13458748
You WERE human, now you are being turned into something else if you will let it.
Saya would be a high Mythos low Quiescence character.
Fuminori is more of a cultist.

Gonna take me a while to read through all this...

>>13458879

It's cool. If there's one thing people like us have, it's time.

Speaking of which, should becoming an Outsider automatically effect lifespan, like it does with Changelings? I know there's that rejection that brings an Outsider back from death, but what about in general? Maybe longevity could be a mutation, or an effect of high Mythos?

>>13458957
Frankly, I'd consider anything beyond Mythos 5 to be beyond the concept of aging.

Have the relations with malkavians been decided yet Because i don't remember it being fleshed out in any of the previous threads.

>>13458957
>>13458980

This gives me an idea,...
Every 2 levels of Mythos the Outsider abandons an aspect of mortality.
M02: You don't need to eat or breath
M04: something else
M06: That is not dead which can eternal lie.
M08: something else
M10: something else

>>13459072

I figure that the Malks would like Outsiders.

>>13459099

That could work.

At a fairly low level you stop aging. Later you stop needing to breathe. Then you start getting harder and harder to kill.

>>13459099
>Every 2 levels of Mythos the Outsider abandons an aspect of mortality.

Make it a pool of things people can choose to discard. At M2 the pool consists of X number of things. At M4, you can choose to discard anything from the M2 pool or the M4 pool.

M02: need to eat, breathe, sleep, or drink.
M04: One of the five senses (ditching one sense allows you to heighten one of the remaining senses)
M06: Speech, emotion, pain (automatically taken at M4 if you ditch touch), ability to reproduce
M08: something else
M10: That is not dead which can eternal lie.

>>13458691
correction.

>>13459100
>>13459072

Well, technically since we're working off of nWoD, Malkavians don't exist...

But I doubt they'd necessarily get along. Malkavians, as I understand it, are mad anyway, they don't deliberately seek out things that'd make them more mad. Perhaps a Malkavian's madness would make them somehow resistant to the displacement-based urge to wipe the Outsider off the face of the Universe. Maybe they'd be best of friends.

Vampires as a whole, I could see really despising Outsiders. Vampires generally crave order in their little empires of the night, and an Outsider of whatever stripe represents Chaos. And I'd imagine they taste... interesting.

>>13459201

At Mythos 10 they're pretty much beyond humanity. Which ties in nicely with the suggestion that Nyarlathotep's Masks, (and other God's avatars) are Outsiders who might have been originally human (or something else) but have so completely embraced the power of the the alien that they've become one with their god.

>>13459262
>And I'd imagine they taste... interesting.
Especially with the Acid Blood mutation.

>>13459314
>vampire drinks from outsider
>"OH CAINE IT BURNS IT Burrnnnnns......." *ash*
>outsider is trollface the entire time

Alternatively

>vampire drinking from outsider
>suddenly, tentacles everywhere
>where did the vampire go?
>Dark Young now has fangs

>>13459370
>Biting an Outsider touched by the King in Yellow causes them to become mortal
>Any vampire who /touches/ the blood of said de-vamped person becomes mortal


>Hastur's face when

Rejection:
[The Tapestry]
Cost: 1M/scene
Req.: Communion 1

You see even with your eyesight impaired or blocked, by sensing the tapestry of reality.
At Communion 2 your sense extends beyond any obstacles and you might perceive opponents hidden behind walls or other objects. Supernatural hiding abilities retain their advantages.
5m radius per point of Mythos

>>13459452
>>Hastur's face when
>Picture of a face
what

>>13459262
If you say so. Still, I imagine hilarious hijinks when in a mixed company of vampires, the usually cryptic malkavian fond of talking in riddles spots an outsider. You know shit just got real when a well known and documented madman starts screaming coherently about running for your life.

...damn, somehow my mental image of malks flipping their shit out is better than my feeble attempts at describing it.

>>13458957
>>13458980
Those who go the way of Joseph Curwen never age beyond the physical form of a 50 year old man.

I believe his power was Nyarlathotep influenced since he had a contract wiht the "Man in black"

>>13459918
;3

>>13459918
>"The fish, it speaks to me. The pieces of plastic at the end of shoelaces are called anglets. Their purpossss..."
>Outsider walks by
>"WHAT THE HELL IS THAT?!"

>>13459945
>Man in black
>Johhny Cash
Suddenly the song Highwayman makes more sense, and When the Man Comes Around is that much scarier.

>>13459945
DEESMEES JESHET BONE DOSEFE DUVEMA ENITEMOSS

>Works the universe according to the real laws of physics that humanity, mages, vampires, changelings, werewolves, slayers, ghosts and prometheans can't comprehend, so technically this isn't really a rejection, just something people can't understand.

Just because an Outsider is squishy doesn't mean he won't fuck shit up.

I wanna trap a Mage in an gravitational instability field and watch all his knowledge crushed into nothing.

I want to show a Vampire what fear means.

And I want to show a Werewolf what it means to see a real monster.

>>13460043
Dear god... Why did I never make this connection?!

Then again Nyarlathotep = Devil has been around for a long time.

Sounds like I finally found a source for the power of the local Vampire Terminator.

It first started as a really unkillable enemy to slap my players around a bit for being a bit too combat crazy. So I gave them something they couldn't kill.

Car chases, explosions, dead bodies everywhere, werewolves torn in two, and the Vampire Terminator kept on going no matter how much damage was done to him. In the end, he was totally obliterated.

The players try to find out what that thing was, their first thought was actually some kind of cyborg-Promethean project or something from the gubbment.

But now... now I can really show them true horror, considering all this stuff.

It's just a US military truck driver, that stole an ancient artifact from an Iraqi museum.

And zhen he zhanged inzto ze Tzerminator, an very creepy andz alien Tzerminator.

>>13460056
This seems really inspirational to me for some strange reason and suddenly makes me want to be ten times more involved in this project.

>I will show the mages how little they truly know.

>I will show the Vampire what fear means.

>I will show the Werewolf what it means to be a real monster.

>I will show the Fae that they have not even begun to know loss.

>I will show the Hunters what it means to be the hunted.

>I will teach the Promethean what can truly be accomplished by one with no purpose.

>I will show the Sin-Eaters of two worlds what it is like to be of no world at all.

>I will show them all...

>>13457764
>World of Darkness game

I was with you right up to that point. This is bad, and you should feel bad for doing it.

>>13460213
Why, what system would you prefer?

>>13460237
4e.

Just kidding. Or am I? Actually, I'm not even >>13460213

Come to think of it, though, I wonder how this game would work in something like FATE. I've long been interested in the idea of a game where you play a Lovecraftian cultist or monster, and have been following your O:tC threads with great interest. But I'm also not sold on WoD.

I was thinking to myself the other day about this and I though each of the classes might deserve sub-classes for more versatility and not being pinned to the whole This god means you get THIS kind of character thing. Here's a few I thought of:
HASTUR:
Playwright of Aeons: All the world is a stage. And you write the script. Specializes in Violation..
Tattered Bards: Through mesmerizing dance and poetry you captivate and enchant. Specialize in Mindscape.
Scion of the Yellow Sign: You bear the mark of your master. Having been touched by Carcosa, you spread it's influence. Specialize in Dreamscape.
SHUB-NIGGURATH:
Young of the Thousand: You are a minature image of your father, contained in a fleshy prison. For now. Specialize in Polymorphism.
Black Blood Born: You spread the blood, and with it your own taint. All shall be of the master. Specialize in Corruption.
Ebon Satyr: Carry the guise of the black goat of the woods. You drive mortals to act upon the whims of the animal within. Specialize in Mindscape.
CTHULHU:
Priest of the Esoteric Order: You carry the mantle of father Dagon and Mother Hydra. They are the closest beigns to the gods you serve. Specialize in Communion.
Starspawned Savant: You hear the call and you have answered it. Now you must spread your calling to all that you see. Specialize in Dreamscape.
Deep Borne Sorcerer: Bargaining for dark sorcerous powers from the depths of the seas, you have sacrificed your humanity. Specialize in Hypergeometry.

>>13460145
If Outsiders will have that much power, then we'll have to keep the whole 'on some level, the universe is sentient, and it wants you -out-'

>>13460145
just leave that as delusions of grandeur on part of the cultists rather than some objective statement regarding the power of the outsiders

of course said delusions probably cut both ways

If we get to the point of statting potential antagonists, anyone else in favor of including Old Man Henderson as a Hunter?

>>13460459
YOG-SOTHOTH
Keeper of the Silver Key:You have seen through time and space to what is and what will be. Specialize in Superposition.
Gatewalker: You have walked through unknown Kaddath and seen the worlds beyond. Carry these dreams, more real than reality, with you. Specialize in Dreamscape.
Awakened Shard: There are many forms that our greater self is composed of. You are a composite of these forms and call between them at will. Specialize in Polymorphism.
NYARLATHOTEP
Masker of Man: You use your superior knowledge of the nature of the universe to great effect. Specialize in Hypergeometry.
Courtier of the Black Pharoah: The crawling chaos requires servants. And likewise, so do you. Specialize in Corruption.
Entropic Warden: Azathoth is a fickle and ignorant god. And you will ensure he continues his peaceful slumber by any means neccessary. Specialize in Violation.

>>13460145

We need to get some Staunen Navigators on this one, immediately.

>>13460516
Something like paradox then? Or maybe a constant power-drain as reality attempts to assert itself over your changes? Every day of game time you lose however many madness points or some resource until you're as "normal" as the universe can make you.

>>13460573
Not quite, the universe doesn't want the Outsiders 'normal' it wants them -gone- shunted into the Outside and In-Between with the rest of the abominations, forced to wait until certain stellar bodies are in an arbitrary configuration before the borders become thin enough to allow entry.

>>13458505
>Instant Knowledge: 1M per use.
>You reach through the oversoul to one of your other selves, and pull knowledge from its mind. Gain a Specialty in any talent in which you have no proficiency for one scene. This ability happens outside the normal flow of time, and so you gain this knowledge immediately upon using the ability.

"Tank, I need to know how to glibburkk-FLARGENARGGOBOV a helicopter."
>Specialty acquired: Helicopter
And zap, you now know how to pilot one for a scene.

>>13460648
Brilliant, just matrix-download whatever you need to know. No potential for being abused there. No sir.

>>13460777
As opposed to the system I was suggesting a fix for: a full set of skill points.
... which could be used with multiple specialties.

Hold this crown, as you are King Fucktard.

>>13460777
>>13460831
>for one scene
>not permanent

So are there going to be a serious of rejections/rituals that let you use madness to increase stats?

Ritual
The Strange Aeon
Cost: (10 x Mythos of all participants) M
Effect: Each participant increases their Mythos by 1.
Special: The cost of the ritual may be reduced by one of several methods.

You may substitute a single human sacrifice to reduce the cost of the ritual by 2 madness or large animal to reduce the cost by 1 madness. You may only make a maximum number of sacrifices equal to the combined Mythos of the participants.

Secondary participants with a Mythos of 0 may also take part but each lose 1 Quiescence at the end of the ritual. Each additional secondary participant reduces the cost by 1 madness. There may only be a maximum of two secondary participants for each primary participant involved.

If you have a Quiescence greater than 5, you may sacrifice Quiescence such that you are not reduced below 5. For each point sacrificed, you may reduce the cost of the ritual by 1 madness. This loss provokes a Displacement check with a +2 penalty.

>>13461041
?

>>13461048
I got a question. What is the baseline Quiescence of a "normal" human cultist, or would their assistance of use in the ritual?

>>13461055
!

>>13461076
.

>>13461069
I'd imagine that newer cultists are still pure human, while long time cultists may have something resembling the "Innsmouth look."

Like this dude. Passable in normal society, but there's definitely something different about him.

>>13461112
So, 3, 4?

>>13461107
>

>>13461141
>>
>

>>13461148
...

>>13461048
See, now , the problem with this is that it is sort of inviting players to just set up shop so to speak and just grind their way up the Mythos ladder with a good supply of sacrifice and cultists while spreading ample madness.

Of course, sitting in one place for too long may also start to draw unwanted attention. Which could make thing complicated when you try to carry out the ritual more than once.

On second thought, this seems an excellent way to create plot advancement.

>>13461184
>...
?

>>13461194
If they "set up shop" and start spreading the taint/madness or sacrificing people, they're going to get noticed fast. The entire building is going to give off an aura of *wrong*, and the people seen entering and exiting are going to be watched by the paranoid, the hunters, and the supernatural.

"setting up shop" would be a stupid move, and only thinkable in the most remote of locations.

>>13461235
Or somewhere with a high degree of wrongness.
Like the basement of a crackhouse or a brothel for exceedingly deranged clientele.
The background wrongness should do a solid job of covering up their mystic radiation and the foot traffic covers the rest.

Bump for an outsider thread with actual new content.

>>13461069
That is something that needs to be defined.
Possibilities are:
a)1 Madness per Morality degradation below 5
b)1 Madness per Derangement caused by the Outsider
c)1 Madness per Major Derangement
d)a combination of the above
e)suggest something

>>13461265
>Like the basement of a crackhouse or a brothel for exceedingly deranged clientele.

That's pretty normal wrongness, we are talking about 'why is this room a tesseract' and 'why any dog that passes by has a shit-fit' kind of wrongness.

bump

let's keep this alive

Meh, Unknown Armies would do a game of that setting better justice.

Maybe we are at very early stages, but yeah, Any idea of what kind of antagonist group they might have?
No group maybe and make them antagonists to the whole world of the supernatural and mundane things ?
Maybe, high Quintessence (Sp? ) Outsiders that hunt other outsiders for being outsiders?
Also.. talking about the idea of Skills for a point of M, it is a bad idea, maybe instead of skills a point of any mental attribute... I know it is not the same but that is just very abusable.

>>13465836
> Any idea of what kind of antagonist group they might have?
Miskatonic University

>>13465892

Random Non-IRC anon here, I've been on and off working on statting up Miskatonic U as a hunter conspiracy. Don't have much/anything to show so far, as i've just been thinking up ideas, but I figbure it works.

>>13465604

I love Unknown Armies, but I don't see the connection, other than the supernatural abilities. Outsider's rejections aren't actually powered by madness, that's just a generic term for whatever fuel they actually use: psychic energy, raw entropy, or whatever. We're leaving it vague and shadowy, so as not to get bogged down in metaphysics.

>>13465836

Antagonist-wise, we've got a massive plethora of choices. The very nature of Outsiders means Reality itself will be antagonistic, people won't generally respond well to Outsiders and the natural world will bend and reshape to make life hard.

Other supernaturals will feel that same antagonism naturally. Vampires will hate them for disturbing the order of things. Werewolves will hate them because they are the definition of un-natural. Mages will hate them because they represent something mages will never understand or control. Prometheans don't really give a fuck. Sin-Eaters would only really get bothered when Outsiders start killing people en masse.

Funnily enough, if we roll with the theory that the Elder Gods are the True Fae, then Changelings might be the one group that would consider themselves as allies, of convenience if nothing else.

Hunters will naturally be hunting Outsiders all the time. Specific groups would include Miskatonic University as has been mentioned, and probably work in Delta Green too. DG would be more the kind of hunters who just kick the door down and machine-gun your cultists before burning the place, while Miskatonic would be a bit more academic, and possibly sorcerous.

Other Outsiders are always going to be a threat too. There's such a wide range of motivations and Delusions, and such a lack of direction from the Gods that conflict's inevitable. Even two Servants of Cthulhu might find themselves fighting over what, exactly, their God's plan is, and how best to fulfil it.

>>13466337
>Funnily enough, if we roll with the theory that the Elder Gods are the True Fae

Ugh, that made me throw up a little bit in my mouth.

Rejection
Blood Bond
Cost: 2 M per target
Target: Willing participants
Duration: 5 minutes
Effect: The Outsider inflicts a minor wound on itself such that it begins to bleed. The blood then forms a tether between the target(s) and the Outsider. For the duration of the ability, whenever a bonded target or the Outsider would make a save, instead, each of the bonded makes a save and the highest roll may be used.

>>13466405
hmm, Communion 3?

>>13466366

What's the problem? It's just a theory. And the idea that the True Fae are humanity's abusive boyfriends who try to protect us because doing so means they get to keep they playthings makes sense. They make a pact with reality to keep the Old Ones out, and the Elder Sign is the symbol of it.

It fits into the nWoD a little better than just having another class of almost benevolent entities fighting the Old Ones.

A number of potential plot hooks:

You see people have been disappearing on the other side of town and there is the air of the unnatural about each night. You fear another outsider has begun a cult, but is doing poorly at disguising it. This is bad, as it may draw unwanted attention for everyone around.

A rare and magnificent text of the arcane written by Borelus about conversing with the dead and escaping the ravages of time itself has been put on display in the local museum. This will greatly aid any outsider, and a local clan of Outsiders who rebel against their own gods may make a move soon.

You have come to Iran to search for the Unnamed City in the deserts mentioned in the writings of Abdul Alhazred. Gathering information may be difficult as it is not on any map. Rumors tell that their is an ancient Mythic power within the city's broken walls, but also great danger, as its former inhabitants have not quite left this world.

Alchemical Transformation
Violation Rejection
Cost: 3 madness

By acting as a conduit for the transfer of protons, an Outsider can fundamentally change the nature of an object. Typically, this would work by the Outsider touching two different materials and strengthening one at the expense of the other. This ability can also be used on the air itself, or on living beings, but it does not change the shape the things, only their composition.

For every success rolled, the Outsider can inflict a point of lethal damage to a grapped target, give a target (including himself) one point of armour or reduce or increase an object's durability by one.

>>13466538
>Violation
Could be Polymorphism as well

>this would work by the Outsider touching two different materials and strengthening one at the expense of the other.

Outsiders don't believe in conservation of energy so an other object wouldn't be necessary.

>>13466538
Full Metal Alchemist: The Outsider?

That's way too orderly for something an outsider might do. But I like the idea behind the mechanic. I agree that balance shouldn't be required in it though.

>>13466783
>>13466753

Fine by me.

Ritual:
[Death Trap]
Cost: 3M/partecipant

The cultist are arranged in a circle around an area they must be no more than two meters apart from each other. They roll Occult+Intelligence+Your Mythos. Once the first cultist manages to accumulate 10 successes a one way barrier forms that allows people to enter, but not leave. The barrier has a Durability equal to the number of cultist that manage to reach 10 successes and a Structure equal to the number of participants. 5 minutes pass between each roll.

is there a compiled version of what is done and what needs to be done? I don't have time right now but I could take a look on it later

>>13467131
Basically there is tons and tons of fluff and very very little crunch. The google doc linked in OP's post has a compilation of all the fluff and ideas for where they want to take the crunch, but there is not really a definitive game actually there yet.

Most of those involved are very familiar with Lovecraftian Mythos and not very familiar at all with the nWoD system, which is a problem.

>>13467194
does nWoD differ from WoD much?

Bump for Shub-Niggurath

Ia bump
Ia bump

>>13467131

Mostly we need more and varied rejections, probably some more that actually cause damage. It'd also be nice to come up with a few more general abilities that all Outsiders have, and to settle on them. And solidify the systems for how everything actually works, what you roll for rejections and so on.

Once we've done that, it'll just be a case of reading and re-reading to get some idea of whether we've accidentally made it possible for characters to wipe out the world by spending one madness.

After that, I think we're pretty much set system-wise.

Then it's just lots of fluff, some writefagging, some drawfagging and coming up with some statted antagonists to play with, maybe some sample hooks and so on.

[Sight of Azathoth]
Cost: none
Communion 3

You see the past, present and future of the area within your sensory range. You can only affect the present. You don't gain any special insight in how to change the future. You can use this ability a number of times equal to your dots in Communion each day.

Rejection: Words of Corruption
Cost: 1M per target for simple effect, 2M per target per mutation
Effect: The words of the Outsider carry a terrible power, able to bend the minds and bodies of their victims. With this Rejection the Outsider can speak a single sentence - 'You are blind.' 'Your head is full of bees' 'Your arms are now tentacles' - and the victim will believe it, with predictable results. With the use of a little more force, these mutations can be made real.


Actually, has an Rejection line based on the use of Aklo been put forward?

>>13470073
Aklo specific no, but it would probably be split between Mindscape and Dreamscape. Most Rituals would be using Aklo too.

Rejection: The Blighted Earth
Cost: 1M per square metre, minimum of five
Effect: By sheer force of will, the Outsider imposes the domain of her patron upon the physical world, creating a place of warped and twisted earth where normal rules do not apply. This haven for creatures Beyond provides boons to the Outsider and her minions, but shatters the minds of mortal interlopers on her domain. The aesthetic suits the Outsider in question; from the waterlogged replica of Rl'yeh to the shifting forest of Shub'niggurath.

I've been meaning to help with this project for weeks, but I'm terrible at working with a group. I'd be too inclined to vanish for a week and come back with a sixty page draft for /tg/ to modify.

>>13470073
Hmm, I would drop the part about making the mutations real, that is the domain of Polymorphism, while the first part id Mindscape

>>13470154
Change mortal to everything not Outsider related and we have a deal.

The realm of the Outsiders is alien to ALL.

Alright. Give me a few hours to digest the google doc. I love both nWoD and Lovecraft, and I've got stacks of books lying around related to both.

Why do I get this plot in my brain of Jack the famous vampire meeting up with some Outsiders to plunge the Prince of New York into some hellish nightmare?

I think a big part of the Outsider political game would be their fluid view on alliances.

They'd work with ANYONE if it would further their causes.

>>13470154
this could be a good replacement for [Major Dimensional Splice]

>>13470254

And they'd work with anyone who could stand to work with them. Displacement's a bitch.

>>13470154

It's cool bro. We'll take all the help we can get.

As a completely impartial third party who hasn't even heard of this project until now, I skim this thread and think "a crunchier version of Don't Rest Your Head with guest star Cthulhu"

Am I far off from what you guys are going for?

Can outsiders from different gods work in one team? aka vampire clans in vtm? Or is it more like mage, vampire, werewolf - not meant to be mixed

>>13470457
As long as their goals are the same I see no problem.
The gods, other than Nyarlathotep, don't care and he is a troll, so unless he is pulling an Eldrad he shouldn't care either.

>>13470412
>Don't Rest Your Head
Never played, so I wouldn't know really.

[Even Death May Die]
Violation 2
Cost: 1M per target
Target: An unrotted corpse.
Effect: By tearing apart the laws of life and death, the Outsider forces a corpse to become animate again. The corpse becomes a zombie with 2 dots in Strenght, 1 dot in Agility and 3 dots in Stamina.

I have the design skills of an epileptic zombie, but I'd be interested in helping this sometime if anyone needs my skills. What's the link to the IRC channel? I'm sure I can find some way to help.

>>13470558
[Reanimation] would be a better name given the source material, the duration of the Rejection should depend on how fresh the corpse is.

>>13470457

Yup. Since there's no real political structure to divide Outsiders, they're just as likely to work together as not. An Outsider linked to Yog-Sothoth might believe that serving his god means working with others who wish to bring back the Old Ones. Others work with him because their goals aren't mutually exlcusive, the return of Cthulhu doesn't mean Hastur can't also reign.

And Outsiders who try to fight their Gods and their nature have even more reason to band together. They might even side with a Servant, if they believe that they can win in the end.

>>13470412

Not exactly. There's a similar feeling in that you've got people with powers that just break reality, but I think the way that works out would be fairly different. In Don't Rest Your Head, there's far more of a feeling that the madness comes from within, in Outsider, that madness comes from outside. Outsider's about being something alien and wrong within normal reality. DRYH's about surviving a nightmare.

What is the IRC?

>>13470651
see op
>>13457764
>So take a look over that, then read the next post to see what needs work most. And feel free to pop into the IRC at #alientheoutsider on irc.thisisnotatrueending.com

>>13470637
>>13470412

Also, someone already said it would be better done in Unknown Armies, which I think would fit even less well, so I guess horror games often work that same ground.

>>13457791
Needs a group of lunatics. People who just couldn't handle the change and spend their time in general death and destruction.

Ok, to make everything clear - rejections are disciplines from vampire. How come there are more than one per dot in each group? Shouldn't they just be made like disciplines and become better via more dots but still on the same track?

From CoC threads I know that there are many book artifacts in this game - madmen notes, rituals etc. Also whenever I think about CoC I see rituals and spells that go wrong, because they are to complicated/powerful to handle. I know CoC is about investigators and not outsiders.

About mutations: do you gain them only at will? or do they happen spontaneously?

>>13470807
> vampire
Think Mage, not Vampire.

I remember, when this project first started up I was pushing for a set of guidelines to help this project from turning into a rage-inducing mess.

Anyway, did anyone actually follow through on that?

>>13470807
Mutations can happen either through low Quiescence or through a specific Rejection.

Oh boy. Another /tg/ failure in the making.

>>13470828
mage magic schools were open as far as I remember. You could mix them and create some crazy shit spells. Vampire disciplines where written down and that's it, that's the only thing you could do

>>13470828
Are we actually using the mage system? So all the examples people are posting are just sample "spells"? I thought we were more prometheanesque.

>>13470807
>do you gain them only at will? or do they happen spontaneously?

Some powers let you gain them at will, but you also gain them as you lose morality equivilent.

>>13470857
you are thinking old Mage.

>this entire thread

I thought we were giving Rejections low Madness costs to give Outsiders more raw power.

No-one seems to remember this.

>>13470833
that was the topic of this thread as I remember: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/13328255/

>>13470807

As for rejections, I'm not familiar enough with the rest of nWoD to comment. At the moment we're basically building up a list to use. We might cut it down and choose the best ones to fit into a different structure later. We'd welcome some more WoD-experienced people to comment on how best that'd work. Though your suggestion might limit us a little too much maybe.

Books and tomes will be very important. They might teach new rituals, or they might be the key to unlocking a ritual you almost already know. Those spells and rites are still there in the form of rituals. Being Outsiders, these Rituals work better than they would for regular humans or even cultists, it's to do with the blood or something.

The difference with regular Call of Cthulhu (or even inverse Call of Cthulhu where you play cultists) is that Outsiders aren't human any more. They're somewhere between human and alien. They're the antagonists of Lovecraft stories and Cthulhu scenarios.

Mutations happen when Quiescence (their morality stat) falls. The school of polymorphism would be how to gain mutations deliberately.

>>13470848
The failure of that is that no one wanted to make a new system, we are adapting an existing one to avoid precisely that.

>>13470897

There's making them powerful, and then there's letting them walk around all over the WoD raping reality senselss. There's got to be some balancing there. A lot of the rejections done so far are powerful ones, the lower down ones haven't really been done fully.

>>13470911
>Though your suggestion might limit us a little too much maybe.

Limits are good. They let you build something actually recognisable as a game. If you don't have limits you just get everyone working at cross purposes. You end up with something like Infernals at best.

Does anyone have a rough draft of how the Quiescence scale would look like?, Also, would you think that an Outsider would start at a Q of 6 as any other creature?

>>13471008
>any other creature?
Any other creature has a Quiescence of 10.
An Outsider should probably start at 7 or 8.

>>13471056
Any other creature, I was meaning Morality stat, but yeah, that answers part of my question

>>13470911
>We'd welcome some more WoD-experienced people to comment on how best that'd work.

I was involved a little bit earlier on. Outsiders were being imagined as a form of anti-mage. As such some form of the mage system might work. Each level of an "arcana" allows for a certain level of control over it's concept, then individual rejections are made up in the moment. This would allow for a lot of freedom, but you do need to make sure each level is well defined.

>>13471056
Just stick with the rest of the nWoD. Player characters start at 7 and can lower it for xp at chargen.

>>13471008

7 is the default starting value for morality stats. Any normal person (and other supernaturals) would have Quiescence 10. But no, we don't have a scale yet. It'll be somewhat similar to Sin-Eaters I think in that the important bit won't be standard morality, as in thou shalt not murder or whatever. It'll be trying to convince reality that you're not an aberration.

So Outsiders should start at 7, to start with they aren't normal at all. They have to work to undo the damage they've already done.

>>13470969
As I said earlier, make the powerfull ones difficult to achieve or dangerous to perform. Using powers could involve some kind of catalysts (perfect place, perfect time) like in magic Slavic culture. For example summoning a creature would need a place full of symbols, maybe some sacrifices maybe other stuff. Perfect time, other than when 'stars are right' could be some other astronomic event, full moon, eclipse, twilight, more vampire faggotry.

Giving outsiders instant-cast powers only is stupid. They will be overpowered or underpowered. Slavic magic is the key. They were gaining their powers from gods and demons and other creatures via the same way.

>>13471103
>>13471056
Non-mythos creatures don't have Quiescence.

>>13471079

Only problem is in differentiating them from Mages. If Outsiders can do pretty much whatever they want with some specialities, then what makes them anti-mages rather than re-fluffed mages.

>>13471128
>Giving outsiders instant-cast powers only is stupid.
See Rituals.

>>13471128

They've got a mixture of the two. Rejections are their instant abilities (though some are extended actions). Rituals are their long-term spells and rites, the ones that you talk about.

>>13471162
I did see them. But rituals sound a bit second plan to me right now. They are big and require much effort and materials. It's not a thing players will use daily. I'm talking mini-rituals that are easier to make and are a daily bread.

Why is it so hard for a disparate losely associated group of individuals with dozens of different concepts of the source material, the nWoD and what they want in the finished product to come up with a set of rigorous guildlines covering all aspects of the game?

>>13471242
Suggest some then, thy will be there, but currently nobody has thought of any. :P

>>13471266

This is why after this buzz dies down a few of us will get down to isolating what exactly we'll do.

>>13471242
Don't remember very well, but Outsiders were supposed to be the kind of creature that don't use their rejections a lot

>>13471242
Outsiders don't really have a daily bread. All of their powers are reality warping in some way. They can't use a ritual or rejection to help butter their toast.


... or can they?

>>13471388
the butter is likely to turn into a Shoggoth

>>13471388
Well, if that is something that you can do, that would be a way to lose Q 10.
Use a rejection on an Act you could have done without raping reality.

>>13471388
>>13471328
I'm now talking as a storyteller who knows his players. If they have powers which can be cast like this *finger snap* they will abuse them. If they have to gather 100 people to perform a ritual, they will maybe use it once, and it will look like this - *searching the book* oh this ritual looks cool, lets try and do it. What needs to be done are powers that are not too easy and not to hard to use. I will write some stuff for you guys after my wednesday exam so expect me on irc or something

>>13471687

That's cool.

Thing is, if you make Outsiders entirely dependent on rituals, you make them somewhat weak when the Hunters kick the door in and open up with flamethrowers. Outsiders need to have some sort of instant reality-rape to unleash, though it shouldn't be the sort of thing they do lightly.

Perhaps we should be looking at this as a combination of simple, at-will vampire-style Rejections that are innately part of being an Outsider physically combined with planned mage-like Rituals that are innately part of being an Outsider in mind.

>>13471993
Now that you mention it, that is exactly the weapon I'd use on Outsiders. Seriously, worst Hunter enemy ever.

He stood outside of the maternity ward and ran his fingers across the glass, leaving a faint smudge. Rows and rows of newborn babies, each snug in a perfectly color coded blanket. Pink for the boys, blue for the girls. Such little wonders. Each a thriving life, a veritable factory that would one day pump out more just like them. A gift that rivaled only the gift bestowed upon him.

Even now he could feel them, a honeycomb of soft blisters along his shoulder blades and down his spine. Every time he shifted his weight, his uniform rasped against the pustules in a pleasurable frisson, threatening gooseflesh on his arms. First they were small, mere pin-pricks, but in time they grew and ripened into fat mounds each the size of his thumb. The flesh covering them was taut and nearly transparent. He could still taste the joy he felt that first day he stared at them in the mirror and saw the small black dots squirming within. Certainly it was the taste of bile when he retched into the toilet, but that too was joy. The very processes of life itself!

Soon, too soon, it would be time and he'd have his own young to care for. He knew what would be next. The careful gathering and preparation of the birthed. Each would be placed within a single bottle of infant formula, and there in those glorious newborns, the cycle would begin again. A thousand young bearing a thousand, thousand young! Glorious!

He turned to go back to work, one more faceless orderly in the hospital. He scratched idly at his throat, feeling the tell-tale pin-prick bumps growing there. Simply glorious.

Just pitching in with custom made powers from a GURPS Supers campaign of mine:

Cloak of the Mi-Go: a physical manifestation of the Outsiders taint.
A part of a Mi-Gos Wings have been implanted into the Outsiders body, forming a pseudo poncho/cloak when not used, fully unfolded they allow flight.

It was mostly based on Disneys Gargoyles wings, so mostly gliding on air currents.

>>13473304

I like the idea of that, but I also like the idea that rituals aren't something that only Outsiders can do. Anyone can learn a ritual and try to cast it (if they're willing to pay the price), Outsiders are just far better because they've got that inherent link with Beyond.

>>13473388

We've already got Wing mutations and Polymorphism can get you them to. We're sorted on the wing front..

>>13473348

Delicious Young of the Thousand. Spreadin dat corruption.

>>13473388
"She had weaseled her way into a small mining companies board - none of the old farts paid notice to the her, the newest secretary. It had been test for her, she would have bankrupted the company in one month flat, channeling their funds into the accounts of her nature loving friends (with a meager 60% margin for her own pockets), but then she found the maps and blueprints. They fascinated her ... and were utterly alien.

But the theft had alerted the true "bosses" of the company. They were nasty things to behold, the Space Crabs she called them. They whipered to her in the night, wanting her mind - dragging her through their collected braincylinders - like in those B-movies her fiance liked.

Instead came the pain, searing pain, turning her insides to ice, her brain inside out...
When the pain ended she could see the Space Crabs as what the were. Pathetic Slaves to their own eldritch gods.
She fled into the night, flying on alien wings, scaling walls like the "Human Fly" movie guy, seeing in pitch blackness.

They tried to make her into something like themselves, now she was like these superheroes from her fiance's comics - powerful yet alien.

She would make them pay, Sace crabs be damned.

bump

That is not dead which can eternal lie - this thread

Fun with the cosmology.

>Sect Jeraearn
What kind of god is Jeraearn, Captcha?
What are his outsiders like?

Is there a full skill list already? Or a character sheet?

Also what do you guys think outsiders' adventures could look like? Who would they compete with? Who stands directly above them to give them quests etc?

>>13479310
>Is there a full skill list already? Or a character sheet?
Not yet.

>Also what do you guys think outsiders' adventures could look like?
>>13473813
>>13473348
>>13466463
Are good examples.

>Who would they compete with?
Basically anyone who learns their true nature. Only the greatest nihilist would remain impassive.

>Who stands directly above them to give them quests etc?
No one really they must create and pursue their own agenda. Tho Nyarlathotep could drop by every now and then when he needs new puppets...err allies.

>>13479310
>Also what do you guys think outsiders' adventures could look like?
I'd suggest reading the Dunwich Horror.

On the connection between Elder Gods and True Fae.
'The Strange High House in the Mist' could be a good example of Nodens kidnapping a man an leaving a Fetch in his place.

Just call Factions "Cults." Or fucking, "Orders". "Alignments". "Followings."

OH
FUCKING
NO

I got a perfect one.
It's my favorite.
"Creeds"

Factions are more like Sin-Eater Archetype than anything.

I like Creeds.

>>13479707
Those names would conflict Sects since they are synonyms.
Up till now the best suggestion was Delusions.

CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDS

>People talking about Malkavians
>nWoD
DERP

>>13479728
Creeds would not conflict, really.
And it describes well the things that the Factions represent, the belief and motivations of the individual outsider.

bump

>>13479742

There are those vampires with that blood disease that makes them insane, Malkovia or something.

>>13479310

Since we're using nWoD, we have a skill list already, unless you were asking about something else. And character sheets really will have to wait until we finalise the system.

For Outsiders, pretty much everyone is a potential antagonist. Ordinary people feel that there's something off about them, maybe getting worse as Mythos increases. The mad might have a Fight, Flight or Worship response triggered by an Outsider's presence. Most other supernaturals have reason to hate them (except maybe rebel Changelings or Prometheans). And reality itself wants Outsiders gone. Most Outsiders will end up like Wilbur Whately and his brother I'd imagine.

Plots might revolve around simple survival, searching for some powerful artifact or tome, finding a way to bring the Old Ones back, or exploration, or fighting cultists of the Old Ones for Rebels, or anything really.

There isn't really any central authority for Outsiders. Most of the Gods don't care or aren't capable of giving anything but the most obscure hints, and Nyarlathotep, while he might be the most coherent "quest-giver" certainly doesn't have the Outsider's best interests at heart. There might be small groups of Outsiders (probably Rebels or Deniers) who work together, and follow the orders of some inspirational figure. Servants might join up with a mostly human cult and follow the orders of a High Priest. It's really on a more personal level.

And up until now, I thought Delusion was the best faction name. Now Creed certainly rivals it, though Delusion does have the nice touch of each faction basically being deluded in thinking they can achieve what they want.

I really love this effort you've turned into pure diamonds. And still continue refining it. That is all.

>>13480419

That's what Alchemical Transformation can do for you.

>Hello, ladies, look at your man, now back to me, now back at your man, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped closing his eyes to the horrible glory of the truth and switched to worshipping the Great Old Ones, he could transform his body to look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re on a boat with the half-man, half-alien your man could look like, headed for a corpse city in the South Pacific. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s a tome of ancient and powerful lore. Look again, the tome is now diamonds. Anything is possible when your man worships the Old Ones. I’m ritually killing a horse.

Personally, I think explicitly naming the race-splats after the various Elder Gods is a bad idea. Not only is it a violation of copyright, it's also overly restricting. Invent your own names and align the PC splats along their themes; nChangeling is so popular because it's so flexible. Besides, if you've actually read Lovecraft, you'll know there's a thousand different monster-gods in the corners of the world, with a new one in every story, so why not go with that sort of thing instead?

Also, the "we will serve the Elder Gods"-types would probably be better as antagonists, like the Belial's Brood vampires, the Seers of the Throne mages, and the Loyalist changelings.

>>13480643
>violation of copyright
Public domain kid.

Elder Gods =/= Outer Gods

Actually reading Lovecraft while he says there are other gods he tends to reuse the same few gods to achieve a feel of continuity. It's other authors who concentrated on other deities.

>>13480643

Lovecraft isn't in copyright any more, at least here in Europe. We could write a book about Cthulhu having emotional man-sex with Yog-Sothoth and not violate copyright, we're fine on that front.

I don't feel that it's particularly.restrictive either. The first system that was proposed for Rejections would have been much more restrictive, but this new one with the various categories that you get discounts on depending on Sect, means that it'll be dead easy to write new "gods", just pick two categories and maybe come up with a new unique ability, though we haven't really got any of those yet.

The five we've chosen are probably the most important, they've got the biggest cults amongst humans and probably have the most human Outsiders. It was always the plan to write out a few more gods once the core game was done, so if you want to play an Outsider linked to Ygolonac (you sick fuck) or an Outsider linked to Tsathoggua or whatever, you're still good.

I'd actually say it's just as flexible as Changeling, especially if we make it clear that playing Outsiders of other gods is totally possible with the system.

I don't think it'd really work to have Servants be antagonists. There isn't the same political structure that the groups you mentioned have to separate Outsiders. And the moral ambiguity that comes from their alienation means that there isn't that semi-Good/Evil divide either. Outsiders will work with whoever seems to be working towards the same goal. A Courtier of the Dark Pharaoh Rebel might work with a Starspawned Savant Servant, if both thought that they were working to free Cthulhu (which the Rebel believes fucks Nyarly's plans) or if the Servant lied to the Rebel about what the results of their plot would be.

>>13480792
Yes, it is; Chaosium has the rights.

>>13480867
They have the rights to use the title 'Call of Cthulhu' for their games, not the stories themselves.

>>13480792
>as flexible as changeling
>changeling Seemings:
>any sort of pretty person
>any sort of animal
>any sort of inanimate object
>any sort of big person
>any sort of little person
>any sort of dark person
Srsly, it's not. The same Seeming could be used to make a giant, obese chef, a steampunk cyborg killing machine, a viking valkyrie, or a beefy guard dog-man. With this, you have a cleric of Cthulhu or... a cleric of Cthulhu.

>>13480867

Ah, you're right, I only read the wikipedia page which wasn't particularly clear. Still, it's not going to be a big deal since I can't ever see this getting published for profit. Chaosium aren't Games Workshop level dicks who clamp down on any fan-projects, so we should be fine. And I'd imagine the fact that we're using WoD as a system would also involve some copyright shenanigans too if we tried to publish.

>>13480917
>Searches of the Library of Congress have failed to find any evidence that these copyrights were then renewed after the 28-year period and, hence, it is likely that these works are now in the public domain.

Wiki seems pretty clear to me.

>>13480917
Noone is planning to publish this officially.

This is all just homebrew, don't get your panties in a bunch.

>>13480902
>With this, you have a cleric of Cthulhu or... a cleric of Cthulhu.

So you haven't read anything and are talking out your ass?
Cool.

>>13480928
I thought that thanks to Disney, copyright was now 90 years or something.

>>13480902

You're being positively un-imaginative my friend. That cleric of Cthulhu could be a fishy, Innsmouth type who preaches to a congregation of junkies and homeless people, or a brilliant, but eccentric artist who's never seen in public because of the fact that she's growing wings and her skin's going a mottled shade of green, or a dream-therapist who has to painfully remove the facial tentacles he grows ever morning so that he can go out in public and consult with the rich and confused, or...

But you're right, I exaggerated. What I perhaps should have said is that mechanically, Outsiders will have a similar level of flexibility. And beyond the mechanics, you can go pretty much nuts with character description, especially for Courtiers of the Dark Pharaoh, who could be pretty much anything ever.

And besides, Changeling's so flexible because it has to be, being based around folklore, it has to be able to run anything. And because it can be, the Mask means that you do pretty much whatever you want.and still pass for human. Many Outsiders don't have the luxury of being able to hide their mutations supernaturally, and have to resort to baggy clothing and shadowy rooms.

>>13480941
The lack of flexibility was my main complaint, anyway; if we're playing alien-horrors-from-beyond, I want to be like those black man-monsters Conan killed, or the birdlike sorceror-monks he killed in another story, or one of the other zillion monsters that creep in the backwoods of Lovecraft. There's no short supply, and I think adding flexibility in would help the setting dramatically, especially since it would fit into the canon nWoD setting better, since there are already lovecraftian beasties (in Seers of the Throne and Summoners) and rules for humans getting powers from worshipping them (in Second Sight).

>>13480941

But I didn't. I said exactly the same as you did.

>>13480972
Disney co. keeps renewing it's copyrights, I think what they did is make sure they can keep doing it ad nauseam.
But if it si not renewed things still fall in the public domain.

More seriously, though, all of the nWoD species-splats represent generic varieties of the creature in question. For instance, Vampires get suave vampires, bestial vampires, orlock vampires, rich vampires, and secretive vampires.

So, here's what I propose the splats to be:
>things from BEYOND THE STARS
>things from the DEPTHS OF THE SEA
>devolving NO JOHN YOU ARE THE DEMONS
>hypergeometry MY BRAIN IS FULL OF FUCK
>secret things from the ANCIENT PAST in LOST CITIES

>>13480986

Problem with just having "Lovecraft Monsters: The RPG" is that it's incredibly hard to do and keep some sense of horror.

"Okay guys, we've got a Mi-Go, a Formless Spawn of Tsathoggua, a Shoggoth, an undying Witch and resuscitated Elder Thing. Time for adventure!"

In order to keep that feel of horror, and in tone with the rest of the WoD stuff, you've got to keep a human element. So Outsiders are somewhere between the human and the alien. They're humans facing the prospect of becoming the definition of inhuman. That to me is more interesting than just playing "one of the other zillion monsters that creep in the backwoods of Lovecraft".

And besides, it's not like you can't take inspiration from those creatures on the form the Outsider will become.

And as to Second Sight, yeah, it's brilliant. Best Call of Cthulhu book that isn't a Call of Cthulhu book. But the rules in that are mainly for antagonists who are mostly human, though of course they are usable for PCs. Imagine Outsider's relationship with Cultists of Things That Should Not Be, as equivalent to Mage's relationship with Hedge Mages.

>>13481059
No, but you could be their spawn, and in any case, it's not like everything can't breed with everything else in Lovecraft; hell, humans can breed with apes! Of course they'd be mostly-human, though; any nWoD splat is, and I would like this to be compatible with canon nWoD, and that means no explicit Lovecraft references. It's not like it can't be rewritten to have them as things from the Lower Depths, in any case; it's not like it isn't heavily implied that that's the origin of Vampires.

I was thinking more Mage/Sleepwalker for the relationship between the two, personally.

>>13481110
>that means no explicit Lovecraft references.
That works on games based on myths and legends that have a thousand different permutations. The Mythos was worked on by a restricted number of authors and in recent times.

>>13481110

I don't really see how any of this in inherently contradictory to nWoD canon. Part of the advantage of nWoD is the canon isn't that strict. There's massive spaces for the Cthulhu Mythos to fit neatly into, and any clashes we can mostly ignore with hints of plot development and "ooh, mystery". If that means hinting that the Mythos deities are from the Lower Depths, then go ahead. But the plan is not to have any solid answers. Maybe they're from the Lower Depths, maybe they're from the Abyss, maybe they're something entirely different. Maybe the Elder Gods are the True Fae, maybe not. But the whole idea behind this was to have the Lovecraftian "gods" involved, I don't think that's liable to change now.

I was talking more in terms of mechanics. Hedge Mages are more generic and rules-light than proper Mages are. It'd be possible to run a Mage game using Hedge Mage rules, but ignoring most of the backstory. Same with Outsider.

And now I really have to go to work. Damn real life to hell.

>>13457791
Instead of 'faction'

'Slant'

'Direction'

'Criterion'

>>13481197
Except that the whole point of WoD in general is "playing classic monsters with a modern spin"; simply ripping off Lovecraft and Derleth et al isn't going to do that. Why do you think Werewolves can't infect people with their bites? If you're going to make a Lovecraftian Monster WoD splat, make it generic, like the other WoD splats!

>>13481292
Ecept Lovecraft ain't about classic monsters.

>>13481292
The Lovecraft *names* are not at all important; what's important is the Lovecraft *themes*, and tentacles and Cthulhu himself are overrated. I've already given ideas for generic splats; let's use something like those instead.

Names preliminary:
>Star Children: things from BEYOND THE STARS
>Spawn of the Deeps: things from the DEPTHS OF THE SEA
>Atavist: devolving NO JOHN YOU ARE THE DEMONS
>Child of the Angles: hypergeometry MY BRAIN IS FULL OF FUCK
>Hidden Spawn: secret things from the ANCIENT PAST in LOST CITIES

>>13481317
Lovecraft's stuff *are* classic monsters.

You know... Lovecraft did have stories about vampires, wolfmen (two legs!), fae (Nodens), and even undead zombies. Just sayin.

Anyways, this is by no means meant to be anything more than a fan project. We only keep the Lovecraftian names and terms out of our love for the source material from which it is pulled. They are by no means necessary and can be generified if you wish, but the Lovecraft Mythos itself is far from written in stone. There is next to no "canon" definition of what any of the gods actually are let alone what the desire.

As for those that want to BE huge monsters, where is the fun in roleplaying one of those? Especially in a WoD setting type game. Sure, you will be able to take on those forms eventually or temporarily, but being as a god among men loses its novelty pretty damn quickly, I assure you. A game without tension and challenge is no fun.

As for creating your own custom horrors and Gods, of course we will have the ability for that. Currently there is:
Cthulhu: Communion, Mindscape, Dreamscape
Yog-Sothoth: Dreamscape, Superposition, Polymorphism
Shub-Niggurath: Polymorphism, Corruption, Mindscape
Hastur: Dreamscape, Violation, Hypergeometry
Nyarlathotep: Corruption, Communion, Hypergeometry

>>13481979
What I'm saying is that it'd be better if the PCs weren't directly related to the Lovecraft gods *at all*, with only generic archetypes instead.

This is like Changeling having as their racial types Big Bad Wolf, Tinkerbell, Snow White, Cinderella, and Old Man of the Woods.

>>13482085
Fair enough. It's a safe assumption that discovering your Outsider nature does not inherently tie you to a specific god. Many are just first made aware of their nature by their tie to one of the gods, whether through genealogical research, accidental interference in things man was not meant to know, or being touched directly by the outer realms.

Many DO recognize a connection or a hatred towards a specific deity, but you can certainly craft your own class/heritage by selecting any three categories as your racial heritage. The actual origin of your power is relatively unimportant.

bump

>>13482585
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV5wmDhzgY8

>>13482698
What did I just watch...

>>13471993
Like every the big three nWoD splats, you'll have access to slow but powerful effects, in the form of rituals, and fast lesser effects in the form of Rejections.

Basically, if a hunter kicks down the door and starts throwing fire Outsiders would be as well equiped to deal with it as any other splat. Similarly, if the players decide to go traveling the world in search of buried treasure, they'll be able to cope with anything that pops up without having to gather a cult and summon a god to deal with it for them.

>>13482085
Well, it's not exactly the way you want it. If you want to play it differently, go right on ahead. We're happy with how it's currently going, and we don't care if you modify it. Just don't expect us to modify our games because you feel it's badwrongfun.

>>13482085
It's more like having Mages aligned with Angels, Demons, Spectres, Fae and Beasts. Or having vampires seperated into five families based on history. Or Prometheans into five lineages based on their original creator.

>>13481979
>Yog-Sothoth
>No Hypergeometry

That list needs to be revised...

bump

If this thread lasts two more days, the Old Ones will return

Revised list:
>Cthulhu:
----------Communion, Mindscape, Corruption
>Yog-Sothoth:
----------Dreamscape, Superposition, Hypergeometry
>Shub-Niggurath:
----------Polymorphism, Corruption, Violation
>Hastur:
----------Dreamscape, Violation, Hypergeometry
>Nyarlathotep:
----------Mindscape, Communion, Polymorphism

Look better?

>>13485823
Now Cthulhu is without Dreamscape

>>13485859
Hmm.. I was trying to arrange it so no two Gods share any two types for maximum variety. Unfotunately, Cthul, Hastur, and Yog Sothtoth are ALL very dreamscapey...

Perhaps, I should give hastur mindscape instead, since he has more influence over the waking world than the sleeping one.

Associations list (V 0.1.2):
>Cthulhu:
----------Communion, Dreamscape, Corruption
>Yog-Sothoth:
----------Dreamscape, Superposition, Hypergeometry
>Shub-Niggurath:
----------Polymorphism, Corruption, Violation
>Hastur:
----------Mindscape, Violation, Hypergeometry
>Nyarlathotep:
----------Mindscape, Communion, Polymorphism

Rejection
[The Golden Compass]
Cost: None
Req.: Dreamscape 1

Orient yourself without error in the ever-changing landscape of dreams and other supernatural realms.

>>13485925
Do you think each Outsider's Embrace should have three different classes associated with it instead of just the one, like:
>>13460459
>>13460558

Or do we just want each representative to have the whole playing field to work with? Or maybe even both. Can start with a dot in any two types of your heritage or two dots in one type.

>>13486008
Ha, nice. What's next:
Subtle Knife - Banish someone from the Dreamscape to the real world or vice versa
Amber Spyglass - Observe anyone anywhere within the dream lands from the real world or some one in the real world from the dream lands.

>>134859

I'd take Dreamscape off Yog-Sothoth. I mean, he's in the Dreamlands because he's Yog-Sothoth, he's everywhere. I don't really recall him actually doing much in dreams though. Hastur and Cthuhlu are both way better fits for it. Probably give Yoggie Communion instead, in terms of reaching forward, backwards and outwards for information and communication.

Other than that, it should fit.

>>13486047
Whatever fits :P
Tho those ARE good ideas for Dreamscape powers.

>>13486070
I only gave Yog sothoth the dreamscape power because he is the guardian of it (The gate and key), though he is also kind of the guardian of all life in both the waking and dreaming worlds... I suppose you're right. Revision time.

>>13486108

Yeah, I never saw Yoggie as especially linked to the Dreamlands. He's inbetween all worlds and realities.

Associations list (V 0.1.3):
>Cthulhu:
----------Communion, Dreamscape, Corruption
>Yog-Sothoth:
----------Communion, Superposition, Hypergeometry
>Shub-Niggurath:
----------Polymorphism, Corruption, Violation
>Hastur:
----------Mindscape, Violation, Dreamscape
>Nyarlathotep:
----------Mindscape, Hypergeometry, Polymorphism

Thoughts, Ideas, Comments, Criticism, Concerns?

>>13486108
>>13486119
I agree one of his outsiders would simply use Hypergeometry to gain access.

>>13486130
Hmm... Think I might swap Shubby's Violation for Nyarly's Mindscape though I'm not sold on the idea.

Shub-Niggurath's spawn don't obey the same simplistic laws that most creatures abide by, but they are also known for seducing/intimidating other creatures whit their unnatural forms.

Nyarlathotep is known for mental manipulation and tricks of the mind, but he also seems the type to throw a big fuck-you to physics like Hastur, especially since the two are sort of Rivals.

>>13486181
We will never get it 100%, at least like this the Schools fit.

Couple of things I suppose need some work.

It'd be nice for each Sect to have a unique rejection-like ability just for being part of that Sect. Like, all Outsiders linked to Hastur can Make the Yellow Sign and spread the infection of Hastur more and more. All Outsiders linked to Nyarlathotep can contact Him at will in order to ask for information and guidance, the other Gods require rituals. And so on. Coming up with a few of those to choose from would be awesome.

One thing we did talk about in the IRC, and briefly mentioned in the Document, was the idea that places could be shifted and affected by Quiescence in the same way Outsiders are. Whether it's a damned old Church that was the site of some horrendous ritual two centuries ago and that disappeared from the mortal world, or a place like Atlantis or the City of the Elder Things. Outsiders can still see these and enter them with the right rituals, since they're somewhat similarly out of step with reality. Other supernaturals and mortals can also enter them but it takes much more powerful rituals or the luck of a plot device to let them in. Some Outsiders take these places and make them their own, using them like Safehouses to hide in.

Also, it'd be good to come up with a few more general abilities that all Outsiders have, like their ability to heal damage by risking Quiescence. Maybe they just creep normal people out, but people with derangements have far more extreme effects, either worshipping the Outsider, having the urge to destroy them, or fleeing from them. No idea how you'd make that work though.

>>13486130

I'd give Hastur Corruption instead of violation. Hastur's all about entropy and the breakdown of reality, instead of the violation of our laws of physics.

Give Nyarlathotep Violation instead of hyper-geometry. Remember all those tricks he pulled in Nyarlathotep? That impossible show?

And probably swap Cthulhu's Corruption for Hypergeometry. Cthulhu isn't really about that breakdown and entropy, but Ry'leh is one big hypergeometric fuck-you.

>>13486238

An ability for Shub-Niggurath might be creating Shub-Niggurath's Milk, which has mutating effects on those who drink it, while also making them more animalistic and primitive. I think it was just recorded as a rejection, but I think it would be best as a sect-specific one.

>>13486130
Something I noticed:

Cthulhu's servants now are very subtle in their actions, slowly spreading corruption, working behind the scenes, and communicating in secrecy.

Those kin to Yog Sothoth are always in the know, seeing things as the are and as they will be and through hypergeometry have the power to use their knowledge to great and devastating effect.

Spawn of Shub-Niggurath are pure physical madness, both in their own forms and their very presence, twisting the world around them into perverse, corrupt and barely understandable violence.

Hastur and his players' touch is madness incarnate bending reality and warping the minds of the weak willed into terror. Even in sleep, when your guard is down, he will find you.

Nyarlathotep's black courtiers' wake is full chaos, in the realms of the mind of those around him, in their own twisting hidden forms, and in the way they abuse the secret laws of the world through black magics of hypergeometry.

All in all, I think the flavors fit fairly well in their current incarnation.

>>13486330
Hmm, this could work too...

Perhaps we should look to the source text for our best examples:

Cthulhu is the ethereal nature of the star spawn as well as the widespread esoteric order of dagon and mastery of the seas of earth as well as the sea of dreams.

Yog Sothoth is the many fractured soul and the awareness of the metaself and the ability to see into the past and future as well as briefly travel there with the right instruments.

Shub-Niggurath has a major affinity for animals and the milk is certainly an iconic one. Of course, so is the black blood line. Maybe they are one in the same.

Hastur is the unknowable knowledge, the spread of insanity and, of course, the yellow sign which symbolize the idea of its father god and acts as a catalyst to degradation.

Nyarlathotep is the aspect of countless faces, the pure embodiment of entropy, as well as the messenger for the enigmatic gods. Though even he can barely be comprehended in mortal terms.

>>13486018

I think that's probably an unneccesary complication. Characters are going to probably have different strengths just through character creation, I don't see the need for that extra layer of definition.

Associations list (V 0.1.3b):
>Cthulhu:
----------Communion, Dreamscape, Hypergeometry
>Yog-Sothoth:
----------Communion, Superposition, Hypergeometry
>Shub-Niggurath:
----------Polymorphism, Corruption, Violation
>Hastur:
----------Mindscape, Corruption, Dreamscape
>Nyarlathotep:
----------Mindscape, Violation, Polymorphism

The only problem I see with this is that now Cthulhu and Yog Sothoth are far too similar as well as Nyarlathotep and Shub-Niggurath, sharing two of the same rejections each...

"I know it doesn't make sense, but I see it. I can't write out the equations because they rely on spatial limitations, and I can't tell you because there aren't enough words for it. But in my head, in my mind's eye, there's this idea, this equation-- I call it hypergeometry. I can sometimes talk through it... explain it in certain terms to someone else (of course they can't understand, they're either laypeople or too constricted by their perception of spatio-temporal reality), but at a certain point I get... stuck. I look around, look at the solid dimensions of everything I see and it just forces its way into my mind. The realness of it, the limited terms of existence... I try to close my eyes, try and shut out the world around me but it never works. I get lost. I could reach the end of the damn thing if I didn't have these god damned eyes anymore..."

So if I'm reading this right...
Cthulhu = Cleric
Yog Sothoth = Wizard
Shub-Niggurath = Druid
Hastur = Sorceror
Nyarlathotep = Witch

>>13486549
Oh shit. failed his will save for sanity...

>>13486549
>>13486583
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20927942.300-make-way-for-mathematical-matter.html

Damn, have to go to work. Hope this thread is still here when I get back.

>>13486671
Nearing autosage.
Also, sexy Dagon is sexy.
That is how an Outsider looks when he takes the Striking Looks merit.

>>13486724
Which is probably how the managed to get the humans of Innsmoth to do that fishman-human crossbreeding in the first place.

>>13486671
>>13486724
>>13486804

If the Old Spice guy was an Outsider?

>>13486941
Oh lord, I can just imagine this guy advertising the Esoteric Order of Dagon.....and it is glorious.

>>13486994

Using the Blighted Earth.

"The land is now R'yleh."