YES. YOU'LL NOTICE THAT HE'S ALSO THE ORIGIN OF THE CURSES SUFFERED BY EACH CLAN, AND OF THE "THOU SHALT NOT SIRE" COMMANDMENT THAT...NOBODY AT ALL, ANYWHERE, FUCKING EVER, LISTENED TO.

Well, it didn't go very well. Especially when the third generation came about.
A man's got to know his limitations.

>7000 years
...
So owod subscribes to the earth not really being billions of years old and the bible being literal?

Well fuck that then.

He had 3 childer that *lived* though his purge of Nod and the uprising of the 3-4 gen. They are the only ones who have stories told about them; which is all beside the point, since all the antediluvian happenings in OWoD are meant to be mythical allegory. I.E., there were 3 2nd gens, and they rep the 3 main divisions of modern Kindred (whatever you want those 3 to be) or they represent the 3 facets of Caine's curse, or whatever.

He kind of regrets the whole thing.

Vampires are a cancer on humanity after all.

>>14294081
I don't see how one generally means the other, especially when most of the stuff commonly known amongst the kindred about Caine is heresay.

>>14294081
I'd assume it was. You know, with one of the splats being Demon: The Fallen.

Oh, and there's Caine. He's literally from the bible.

>>14294081

OWOD, AS A WHOLE, DOESN'T SUBSCRIBE TO ANYTHING.

IN DEMON:THE FALLEN, FOR EXAMPLE, THE BIBLE IS EXPLICITLY STATED TO BE METAPHORICAL. "EVERYTHING IN PARADISE HAD MULTIPLE LAYERS. ADAM AND EVE WERE BOTH TWO IMMORTAL HUMAN BEINGS, AND MILLIONS OF PROTO-HUMANS" "IT WAS AT ONCE A SINGLE NIGHT OF LEARNING AND THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF TOOLS AND EVOLUTION" AND SO ON.

VAMPIRE, HOWEVER, TREATS CAIN AND ABEL AS EXCLUSIVELY INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE, RATHER THAN THE FIRST HOMO SAPIENS *AND* TWO INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE LIKE DEMON DOES. THIS COULD BE A RESULT OF THE EVENTS OF DEMON (ESSENTIALLY, GOD FORCED EARTH INTO A SINGLE 'LAYER', WHERE SOMETHING CAN ONLY BE ONE THING AT A TIME), OR WHATEVER.

MAGE, HOWEVER, MAKES NO MENTION OF GOD AT ALL, SAVE THE BELIEF IN A PSEUDO-OMNIPRESENT DAOISM-TYPE DEAL HELD BY A SINGLE MAGE FACTION.

>>14294081
Put aside your atheistic sensibilities for a moment to just have fun with Christian mythology - it's not like you're subscribing to the actual religion if you game in that kind of setting.

Nobody seems to have a problem with D&D pantheons, so using a more modern and popular real life mythology that is used today shouldn't be that much more of a stretch.

>>14294119
This. I don't believe in god, but fuck me if the Bible isn't just as interesting as any Greek or Norse mythology.

>>14294090
What better indication of the atrocity called 'vampire' than the scorn of their progenitor?

Caine was actually a pretty chill dude.

>>14294047
I haven't read the thread closely, but Caine spent most of that 7000 years in a cave somewhere.

Didn't he become a taxi driver?
Afar if you are playing a Malkav in Bloodlines you can find out that the cab driver is actually Cain.

>>14294230
Yes and no. I wouldn't say it's part of the metaplot of oWoD. In the Ghenna novel he's been hanging out in a cave like someone above me said.

>>14294236
Well, my group didn't care much about the metaplot.
We only knew about Gehenna on a meta-level, but it didn't affect our characters.
And we jokingly took Cain the cab driver as canon, because that's the most awesome choice.
We also made the Gangrel claws Wolverine-style...

>>14294262
My ST of my current game had us meet Caine in passing, with Beckett leading him around (taken from the novel). Didn't realize it until he was gone, probably won't be seeing him again.

>>14294262
I could see that, aren't a user of Proteans claws suppose to be a reflection of the user or some shit so they'd all be different?

>>14294282
I think ALL WoD abilities are in some way different for every individual.
It's not as heavy for Vampires, but Hunter was all about personalized edges.

>>14294282
"The vampire's nails transform into long, bestial claws." Technically that would go against it, but I think only the most anally retentive ST would disallow it.

I thought commonly known history and religions are all a lie in WoD because the past was actually Exalted.

>>14294302
Reminds me of the shitty serial writing I did for creative writing class. Makes me want to make characters for shits and giggles again.

>>14294303
I've been told that that was purely a marketing stunt for Exalted when it was first coming out and didn't last long at all.

>>14294216
>>14294230
>>14294236

Truth be told, I liked the idea of Caine being a part time Taxi driver better than I liked the idea of him hanging out in a cave for the past 7000 years. I didn't see this grand-daddy of all vampires as a dedicated Taxi driver, more as he knew how much of a big fucking impact you, the player of the game, was going to have on the world. So he was simply ferrying you around to your fate to get wheels set in motion. I doubt it was meant to be taken that Caine drove taxis around ALL the damn time.

>>14294303

THAT WAS DROPPED AS SOON AS EXALTED WAS POPULAR ENOUGH TO STAND ON ITS OWN (BASICALLY TWO BOOKS INTO 1E). IT WAS PURELY AN ADVERTISING GIMMICK AND NOW ONLY EXISTS AS VESTIGIAL SHARED NAMES (MALFEAS, DEVIL-TIGERS, ETC).

>>14294236

Personally I would say yes to both.

Caine being the father of all vampires with a mastery of Chimerstry would certainly have the ability wax philosophical in a taxi and chill in a cave at the same time.

>>14294107

What about the Choristers?

>>14294312
>Makes me want to make characters for shits and giggles again.
Yeah, I love creating concepts.
Hopefully I'll get another group to try them.

My favourite gimmick is the Nosferatu who believes himself to be beautiful. (Or a Toreador, depending on what's funnier)

>>14294377
"Y'all niggas just be jealous about ma weave!"

>>14294119
>>14294153
Yeah, but VtM focuses on the gayest aspects of Judaeo-Christianity -- namely that God's gonna getcha and pwn everyone unless you repent and yada yada. Just read Gehenna.

To answer the OP.... The full story (as I know it) goes like this:

Caine (I hate that spelling of it. Fucking 'e'.) got lonely, and sired three guys. Not sure if it was at the same time.

After a while he realized that this was not a smart thing to do. He either told them then, or after they sired some other people not to make more vampires.

Anyway, there are 13 lords when he returns, each with their own following of vampires cast in their image.

Naturally, the father of all vampires is a little... peeved that his one command was directly and THOROUGHLY disobeyed.

He then cursed each of the Antediluvian (think that's the right term) in term.

Malkav lusted for knowledge, so Caine (fucking e) made him know too much, breaking him. This passed on too all his blood.

Arikel was vain, and angered Caine and the other vampires with a particularly ambitious work of art, showing how vampires were weakened by losing their humanity. Caine cursed her to love art and never again create it, but she also mantained far more of humanity than she should have. both curses were passed on to her kind.

I could do the rest if you want, but that about sums it up: each bloodline has a start like that.

I miss the Tzimisce

They just had a flavor that was so cool. Vicissitude was awesome.

If I ever run a NWoD vampire game I'm going to bring them back as the secret big bad and rape my players.

>>14294377
>Toreador

>>14294406

turn, not term.

1:30 AM is not a good time for the thinking I guess.

>>14294406
For the most part. The Tremere of course were mages that decided to join the party after the fact, and iirc there was something else rather out of the ordinary with the Ravnos.

>>14294409

They used that motherfucking character in the Masquerade TV show. FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

>>14294406
Didn't Caine curse the antediluvians after they fucked up the 2nd generation? Either way it's unclear if he did curse all of them or not, the Salubri's "curse" doesn't seem like a curse, more like an odd byproduct of Valeren, the same for Lasombra, and i think Malkav was never very stable to begin with.

>>14294408
My ST didn't allow me to use my bones as throwing knives... Even though I wanted to create them outside of battle in case I had to restock.

>>14294408
I've got that going on in the VtM game I'm in at the moment. It will be interesting if/when we actually meet him.

>>14294436
>Masquerade TV show
I was not aware such a thing existed
I'm not sure that I want to

>>14294438
>Didn't Caine curse the antediluvians after they fucked up the 2nd generation?
That's the way I remember it, though it's all intentionally left a bit vague

>>14294447
>I was not aware such a thing existed
>I'm not sure that I want to

You don't

>>14294456
I guessed as much.

>>14294447
You don't want to watch, it sucked horribly.

>>14294447
It was pissweak excuse for LOL VAMPIRE ROMANCE in the Anne Rice sense, called Kindred: The Embraced. It is worth watching if you are a conoisseur of bad television. Otherwise, it will make you ragequit life with the bullshit they pulled.

>>14294419

Yeah. I fucked up Malkav anyway, looking back he was a fallen that assimilated himself into the 'hive-mind' created by a crazy mage-vampire after the fall of Enoch. With Zillah being his(?) sire, that makes vampires turning angels canon, mostly.

That makes two founders not Cainite.

Meh.

>>14294440
Then he's retarded.

That shit is cash.

>>14294081
>ok with cain existing...upset that the earth is 7000 years old.

>>14294324
uh no. it was clearly done intentionally. watch the fucking video. even today there are nods to it.

>>14294469
Weren't the Brujah punks and Gangrel bikers?

>>14294406
Er, can you finish this?
I know little about Vampire.

>>14294460
shit was awesome yo.

>>14294460
>You don't want to watch, it sucked horribly.
>vampires

>>14294494
Oh wow. I didn't even see that.

Caine also sired two others. They, upon learning what they'd become, went insane and killed themselves. After that, Caine decided that it was a bad idea to sire any more childer.

Then he got lonely. He sired 3 more childer, which are commonly referred to as the second generation, although they're technically the third. From those, 13 Antediluvians were sired and those created what we now know as the 13 vampire clans. Long time passes in this first city called Enoch and Caine gets bored and leaves. The 13 clans fight for power until Nosferatu attempts to eat his sire for leaving a very small scar on his face. Caine then comes back and backhands him like a bitch and makes him and all of his childer the ugliest shit to ever ugly some shit up. Then later the Baali show up and fuck up everyone's shit. Then there's the great flood. Shit happens, yadda yadda, here we are.

You have the Niktuku hunting the Nosferatu. The Tremere eat all the Salubri and Saulot, the master of life, is "eaten" by Tremere. Tremere is actually in Goratrix and Goratrix is in a mirror in Mexico City. Cappadocious, the master of death and necromancy, is "eaten" by Giovanni, who then decides to start taking naps. Lasombra, the master of darkness, is "ripped apart" by shadows and "eaten" by his childer and grandchilder... I think the only actual confirmed kill was Ravnos who got nuked three times.

Anything else you wanna know?

>>14294486

Sure. You want me to type it up all fancy-like, or just the cliff-notes version.

Hell, I do it all fancy, you could claim it's a translated bit from NOD if you ever ran.

I miss OWoD. I just can't get into the new stuff.

/goes back to playing Bloodlines.

>>14294498
Speaking of vampire TV shows, how's "True Blood"? Is it alright or is it another Twilight suck-fest only with more nudity and sex in it?

>>14294500
>Then he got lonely. He sired 3 more childer, which are commonly referred to as the second generation, although they're technically the third.
'generation' usually refers to degree of separation from Caine, so it's accurate to call them the second generation.

>I think the only actual confirmed kill was Ravnos who got nuked three times.
Among other things, though even that's left ambiguous.

>>14294511
I especially want old Hunter back.

>>14294503
However, man. I've played a few games of Vampire, but know fuckall about the fluff...

>>14294511
I always wondered this,which of her personalities was the original?

>>14294519
The splat book for Hunter dealing with demons is my favorite.

>>14294517
Chimestry 10... yeah. Who knows.

>>14294517
Also the (Obrimos?) antediluvian who got killed in the ritual that made the Tremere into vampires.

>>14294529
They killed a 4th gen Tzimisce IIRC, Saulot was eaten later so Tremere could get up to 3rd gen.

>>14294523
(SPOILERS BELOW)

I've always had two possible interpretations:
#1 was that she was always the same girl, and her "good girl" personality is the real one. She developed the "little slut" personality when her dad started fucking her, because of how he made her feel.

#2 They were two seperate children as the painting in her office indicates. The night the "good girl" caught daddy in bed with the "bad girl", she not only blew his head off with the shotgun, but the bad girl as well, then took her identity after realizing what she had done and going batshit insane for it.

>>14294517
I keep hearing about Ravnos kicking ass. What book is this in?

>>14294543
I think it's one of the Gehenna ones.

Also, isn't the Gangrel founder in a cave somewhere in Scandinavia.

>>14294543
Week of Nightmares.

My favourite thing about oWoD is how the Brujah were idealistic scholars who eventually became known for being the vampire world's thugs.

>>14294511
Why can't it be the 90's again, anon?

>>14294521

Well then, let's start from the top. Feel free to ask questions along the way.

Cursed by his father or creator, Caine is banished to live in Nod, east of Eden. Caine wanders in Nod for an unspecified period of time, until he meets Lilith, former lover and coeval of his father, Adam. In her bitterness, Lilith teaches Caine potent magic, the Disciplines of the modern nights. Immediately after this, Caine abandons Lilith and is approached by Angels of the Lord.

These Angels offer Caine the opportunity to repent, which he rejects. Each Angel in turn curses Caine with a specific vulnerability: sunlight, fire and treachery. The last Angel prophesies the path of Golconda, then leaves Caine alone.

Caine continues to wander, until he reaches the city of Enoch, there he embraces the king of the city (Ynosh), and rules the city openly. During this time, Caine encounters an apocryphal figure, the Crone; this Crone forces Caine into a blood bond that he breaks through abstinence. During this time, he learns other lore about vampiric weakness, which he uses to stake and kill the Crone. He then returns to Enoch. There he finds his descendants have embraced massive numbers, and he foresees the Great Flood, abandoning the city before the waters rise.

After the flood, the Antediluvians rebel against the Second generation, slaying their sires and then building a Second City where they rule over the kine openly. Caine returns to the Second City, where he curses each of the clans with a distinctive weakness.

(Interesting side note: the 'e' is there to represent the transition from mortal to vampire. Supposedly, all mentions of 'Cain' speak of the man, and 'Caine' the demon. The fact that they're pronounced the same is supposed to be a reflection of the Vampires mirroring human existence, sort of a 'masquerade'. This is not even WoD stuff, by the way.)

>>14294567
Because one boy-band apocalypse was enough.

>>14294568

The Antediluvians are the founders of the thirteen vampire clans. They are attributed to be vampires of incalculable power, each of whom survived the Great Flood (ante, before; diluv, flood: hence antediluvian, one who comes before the flood) and who are believed to either be in torpor, manipulating the Jyhad, or dead. Technically, the term Antediluvian can be applied to any Cainite who dates before the Great Flood, such as Caine or the Second Generation, but it normally refers to the Third Generation.

There are a large number of myths and prophecies surrounding the clan founders, many of which are contradictory and suspect. However, certain beliefs have prevailed throughout vampiric history, particularly in regards to their actions in Gehenna. While some clans regard their progenitor favorably, as a whole the Antediluvians are often portrayed as boogeymen that will rise and devour their descendants. There are rarely reasons given for this, but clanwide purges have occurred in the past and Gehenna is seen as a time of blood and reckoning for Cainites.

>>14294567
I'll keep my several-megabit internet connection, thank you very much. You know what one of the great things about pnp games is? You have, and can still use all the old books and such. No one's going to come around and snatch up your Werewolf the Apocalypse rulebook.

>>14294585

Let's go to the specifics now.

Assamite Antediluvian

Name: Haqim
Embraced: Before the Flood
Status: Unknown, most likely in torpor, but some reports have him actively testing his childer and destroying those who have not lived up to his code (inferred from the Gehenna book).
Clan: Assamite
Generation: Third?
Sire: Irad
Childer: ur-Shulgi, Abdalkutba, many others.

As far as origin stories... There are none, canonically speaking. One could infer that a man like him was embraced because there were a great deal of people who needed to die.

Vacations frequently in Murdertown. On a non-facetious note, he maintains a rigid control over his clan in the form of the dreaded Methuselah ur-Shulgi, whose frankly frightening stats can be found in the Children of the Night book. ur-Shulgi is a killing machine, probably very much like his sire, who is mercilessly slaughtering anyone in the clan who does not meet his criteria. Ostensibly after the weeding is done, the faithful will be summoned to Alamut, where Haqim will wield them against Caine. That will likely go badly.

>>14294546
Gangrel is Australia, and when she wakes up, she's going to eat all of the cities.

>>14294602

Name: Brujah/Troile/Troile the Younger
Embraced: Before the Flood
Status: Trapped beneath the salted earth of Carthage along with Moloch.
Clan: Brujah
Generation: Fourth (Third)
Sire: Ilyes
Childer: Eshmunamash, Jaroslev Paschek (justicar)

Clan legends differ greatly concerning Troile. Some claim that Troile was an Antediluvian, others say that he/she was a childe of the original Brujah Antediluvian (Illyes/Troile the Elder). However, the most likely version is that Troile was the childe of Ilyes who, falsely believing that Ilyes planned to destroy her, attacked and tried to destroy Ilyes first. Whether she succeeded or not is not known for sure, but the True Brujah's affinity for Temporis should have made it easy for him to flee should he have needed to. Which ever the case it is known that Troile later did create childer of the 4th generation.

Troile's crowning achievement, so to speak, was the city of Carthage. Her/his childer (or at least those old enough to remember, such as Eshmunamash from Lair of the Hidden) consider Carthage their clan's paradise. This view glosses over the uncomfortable truth of the excesses of the vampire Carthage. At the time, Troile was deeply involved with Shaitan, allowing his childer (the Baali) to live beneath the city and do as they pleased. They became increasingly less subtle, which ended in the city's eventual burning and salting. Shaitan escaped, but Troile ended up trapped beneath the salt barrier in the ruins of the city. (Dark Ages Companion)

An unverified source claims that Troile is in possession of a certain crystal sword which has the ability to drain souls. That would conceivably help in the diablerie of her sire, but it still would not solve the aforementioned Temporis problem.

>>14294602
In the Gehenna novel he sure did fucks hit up. Only seen as a hot,sandy whirlwind. Shit was awesome.

>>14294601
The issue is to find a way to buy the books.
Printing them is fucking annoying and it's hard to bind the paper in a way equal to the readability of a book.

>>14294568
Ok but what the hell was the Chrone?

Your post sugests that she was some sort of vampire,but Caine didn't know her?

I'm all for leaving some things misterious but this seems like a inconsistency in the fricking origin story.

>>14294539

My opinion is that neither is "original" they are both reactions to the abuse she suffered (one overly controlling "in charge" and frigid, the other a filthy filthy whore).

P.S. Bloodlines is so much more awesome if you play as a Malkavian. So many more opportunities to smart mouth people.

>>14294618

Setite Antediluvian

Name: Set, Seth, Sutehk, Typhon
Embraced: Before the Flood
Status: Dead, but working on it.
Clan: Followers of Set
Generation: Third?
Sire: Unknown, possibly Enoch (worth noting that there are two Enochs: Caine's Childe and the City)
Childer: Nefertiti, Hesha Ruhadze, Pentweret

World of Darkness canon finds the dark god of the Egyptians among the ranks of the Antediluvians. No reason is stated for his choice to downgrade from godhood, but there are two possibilities. One- he believed it would give him more power. Two- to ensure his mortal worshippers wouldn't die off, he uses the vampiric curse to give them immortality. Also, when belief in him wanes, his vampiric state prevents him from being consigned to the fate of gods without worshippers.

Set is dead up until Gehenna. His followers' stated agenda is to revive him by some means or another. In the end times, they perform a massive ritual with the intent of resurrecting him. Set hears, but instead of returning to the physical realm, he calls all his followers to join him in Duat. In this particular scenario, the Setite mass suicide is the final precipitant of Gehenna. In other scenarios, he rises to be destroyed by Caine. However you look at it, things will go badly for him.

>>14294602
In the book where Caine follows Beckett around there's a scene where Beckett walks a bit ahead and around a corner from where Caine is standing. Behind him there's a group of Assimites standing next to a fountain, who decide they're going to diablerize him. By the time Beckett turns around an instant later, Caine is alone and the fountain is covered in ash.

>>14294618
That's one version of why Carthage was destroyed. Another is that the jealous and spiteful Ventrue, who were working behind the scenes in Rome, didn't want any city to outshine their little patch of land by the Tiber.

>>14294627

In the Book of Nod, the Crone is an apocryphal figure who teaches Caine of the power of the blood bond and the stake. The Crone may come again at Gehenna to seek revenge against Caine (whose track record with women isn't particularly encouraging). The Crone is sometimes identified as Lilith, and sometimes confused with Lilith.

She may or may not have been a vampire. Technically, Caine isn't the father of all vampires.

How and why she has Cainite powers and weaknesses without being Canite... Let's be honest, this is White Wolf we're talking about. Second only to GW in terms of fluff inconsistencies.

>>14294629
>P.S. Bloodlines is so much more awesome if you play as a Malkavian. So many more opportunities to smart mouth people.

Yeah, I played as Nosferatu for a time but it was kinda boring.
Malkavian gameplay isn't really much better, but it's AWESOME.
I burst out laughing at the first few lines.

>>14294634
He also spares a female Assimite hunting him down.

>>14294631

Giovanni Antediluvian

Name: Augustus Giovanni
Embraced: 1005
Status: Alive
Clan: Giovanni
Generation: Fourth/Third
Sire: Cappadocius

Augustus Giovanni was originally a necromancer. He became a child of Cappadocius, the founder of the Cappadocian clan. Augustus decided that he should take his sire's heart's blood though, and diablerized him somewhere during the dark ages, after which he founded his own clan, the Giovanni. After this event he made a deal with the camarilla that they wouldn't interfere while he purged the remaining members of the capadocian clan. He is till this day the most active of the Antedeluvians. He is also the youngest and least powerful one.

>>14294618
Brujah also may have thrown himself into a time warp, what with being the master and controller of time with Temporis.

>>14294631
Are you saying Set was a god... who got Embraced? Also, where/what is Duat?

Thanks, too! My WoD experience consists of one short game and Bloodlines, so this is fascinating.

>>14294660
I was simply emphasizing the
>That will likely go badly.

>>14294047

Because he saw what his "children" had wrought.

>>14294661

Gangrel Antediluvian

Name: Ennoia
Embraced: Before the Flood
Status: Unknown
Clan: Gangrel
Generation: Third
Sire: Unknown, possibly Zillah
Childer: Xavier (former justicar)

Ennoia's history, like many others, is very vague. Hints are dropped at antagoinism with Ravanna, but as usual never explained. Near the end times, Gangrel who earth meld begin to hear voices. Seismic activity sharply increases. It is suggested in the Gehenna book that she has become one with the Earth, or at least gone down farther than anyone can reach.

>>14294649
Is it wrong that I want to run a game where the Ventrue are behind the Templar dickery in Assassin's Creed Brotherhood?

>>14294672

I've got nothing on the Lasombra, so I'm skipping ahead. To Malkav.

The Malkavian Antediluvian.

It is thought that this antediluvian isn't really a physical being, but through the powers of dementation, became what is known as the malkavian madness network. It is believed that if any malkavian was sired with no insanity or connection with the network, he soon was drug in by malkav himself whenever the vampire came close to an insane clanmate.

Name: Malkav
Embraced: Before the Flood
Status: Dead/Existing as Malkavian Madness Network
Clan: Malkavian
Generation: Third
Sire: Zillah

Those Malkavians who directly speak of their founder as all often claim that he was more than mortal even before gaining the Blood. Indeed, some insist that he was one of God's own angels, part of the two-thirds host that put down Lucifer's rebellion he then met his own private Fall, seduced by a childe of Caine whose eyes burned with the lust to corrupt every good thing. Others, perhaps fearing condemnation for blasphemy, speak of Malkav as an oracle - not a god himself but one whose body and mind the gods invaded to give their auguries. Whoever he really was, all agree that he possessed more wisdom than was good for him, more than he possibly could bear together with the Curse of Caine. Still, they say in the beginning he was not mad.

>>14294683
Not at all. I'd play in it.

>>14294661

>>14294684

Nosferatu Antediluvian

Name: Absimiliard
Embraced: Before the Flood
Status: Unknown
Clan: Nosferatu
Generation: Third
Sire: Zillah
Childer: Baba Yaga, The Nictuku

Clan legend says that the Nosferatu Antediluvian is one of the most loathsome and spiteful members of the Third Generation who is bent on exterminating his entire lineage, if not all vampires. The reasons for this vary widely, and are often based on accounts of his Embrace, but little can be for certain of possibly the most elusive Antediluvian. The name Absimiliard is often attributed to him, though such an identity means little to a master of Obfuscate.

Tradition holds that Absimiliard was an expert and stealthy hunter whose skill at predation inflamed the dead heart of his female sire (therefore, presumably, Zillah). She chased and embraced him, although in the ensuing struggle she also scarred him lightly. A creature of prodigious vanity, this trivial marring of his otherwise perfect looks drove him to obsession, and Absimiliard conceived to murder his sire.

Absimiliard is held to be one of the leading figures in the slaughter of the Second Generation, with his vendetta against his sire being the cause of the ensuing violence. As a result, he was harshly punished by Caine, twisted into a hideous mockery of a human being. The curse reverberated through his childer, affecting every one of his descendants.

Since that time, Absimiliard has hunted his descendants, using Blood bond agents, the Nictuku to hunt down the rest of the line. He plans to present their death as a sacrifice to Caine and beg forgivness.

>>14294698

Ravnos Antediluvian

While nothing is explicitly stated in canon about the origin and early history of Ravanna, one could extrapolate from his personalized curse (to vice) and his clan's signature powers that he was likely some manner of vagabond, perhaps a con artist. Ravanna becomes prominent in WoD history in 1999 when he awakens due to the great numbers of Ravnos dying in India, where he was incidentally resting. He arose in the midst of their battle with the Kuei-Jin, and drew the attention of Garou, Kindred, and the Awakened. There is no record of any Hunter activity, which does not necessarily preclude their involvement. A massive, week-long battle ensued which would come to be called the Week of Nightmares. This also coincided with the appearance of the Red Star.

During the Week of Nightmares, the Ravnos experienced wild fluctuations in power and horrific nightmares. Some weaker minded members were possessed by the sheer overwhelming tide of madness spewed forth from the mind of their progenitor. Meanwhile in India, a full sept of Garou fought day and night along with (but not alongside) countless Kindred. A decisive turning point came when the watching Technocracy employed spiritual nukes, killing all the combatants except Ravanna and the Kuei-Jin, who for their part had conjured a massive hurricane. Left on their own, the three of them called down the power of four suns and obliterated Ravanna. Mass frenzy among the Ravnos ensued at the severing of their bloodline, and their numbers dropped to negligibility. (for further reference see Transylvania Chronicles 4 and Nights of Prophecy.)

Accepted rumor has it that Ravanna and Ennoia (Gangrel Antediluvian) had some sort of mutual antagonism which passed through the blood.

>>14294684
Lasombra was killed during the Anarch Revolt in the middle ages by his own clan. He actually became the darkness, and when Gehenna happens, anyone who uses obtenebration is going to instantly be consumed by the darkness.

>>14294706

Toreador Antediluvian

Name: Arikel (Ishtar, Inanna)
Embraced: Before the Flood
Status: Unknown
Clan: Toreador
Generation: Third
Sire: Enoch
Childer: None stated.

Arikel was originally an artist chosen by Enoch to create a mural of the plight of mortal existence. She succeeded and created one of such beauty (with Caine in attendance) that it brought about a change in the curse within the two vampires. They rose to anger and destroyed it at once, never seeing the final section which revealed how she thought a vampire could be reunited with a part of their human soul, Caine then ordered Enoch embrace her at once to bring about the very curse of blood upon her soul as punishment. He did and as he did he cursed her to always be obsessed with beauty but to never again be able to create it.

(continued)

>>14294706 Accepted rumor has it that Ravanna and Ennoia (Gangrel Antediluvian) had some sort of mutual antagonism which passed through the blood.

Ravanna likes chicks who shave their armpits.

>>14294706
If I remember correctly, there where also a mirror satellites deployed by the Technocracy.
I might remember incorrectly.

>>14294721

However in this curse Arikel held on to a small part of her own soul, and in this obsession she passed down the line to all her childer love of art. This love has been used by generations of her blood against the inner beast of corruption and while it is unknown for sure her location in the world it is believed that she still to this day successfully fights her inner beast using her sire and grandsire's curse as a weapon.

In more modern nights her effects are felt in much smaller measure, perhaps because she is dead, but it is just as likely that she is watching her childers movements and preparing for her own action.

There are many stories and feats attributed to the Toreador Antediluvian which offer very different views of the clan progenitor. Traditionally, the founder is held to be Arikel, a sculptor who served Caine in Enoch. However, an alternate interpretation is that the Antediluvian was the inspiration for many goddesses of the fertile crescent, particularly Ishtar and Inanna. If this is the case, the founder was most likely a bull dancer, a form of bullfighter who performed in temple rituals. The name of the clan would then ultimately be a modern interpretation of this ancient craft.

Arikel is generally held to be beautiful, fickle, vain and carrying on affairs with the other Antediluvians. She may be especially despised by Absimiliard who both lusts for her and seeks to destroy her.

>>14294706
It's always interesting to hear the tale told, since it's different every time I hear it. Most recently I had heard a version involving a Technocracy orbital solar laser.

>>14294729

Tremere Antediluvian

Name: Tremere
"Embraced": 1022 AD
Status: Currently inhabiting the body of Goratrix after Saulot's takeover of his body. In effect Tremere is now of 4th generation, and effectively no longer an Antedeluvian (not that he was ever considered a "true" antedeluvian, having never seen the flood nor the Second City).
Clan: Tremere
Generation: Fifth/Third
Sire: None (vampire through Hermetic alchemy)

In the Middle Ages, a group of Mages from the Order of Hermes sought to gain the powers of the Cainites. In their quest, three mages, Tremere, Etrius, and Goratrix, captured a Tzimicse of the Fourth Generation and performed magical rituals with its blood to create a potion that would allow them to become immortal without succumbing to the vampire's curse. Unfortunately they became vampires, and they lost their magical powers. Their preexisting knowledge of magic helped them to create the Discipline of Thaumaturgy.

Desperation when other Cainites learned of their theft of the Curse of Caine and subsequently persecuted the group caused Tremere to seek out the power of an Antediluvian. He eventually located Saulot, the Antediluvian of the Salubri clan, and diablerized him. For reasons unknown, Saulot is said to have submitted willingly.

Tremere is asleep beneath the chantry of Vienna. During Gehenna, he is said to disappear, only to come back under the control of the Tzimisce Antediluvian.

>>14294729
So, the Toreador to all other clans:
>U jelly? Yea, u jelly.

>>14294742

Tzimisce Antediluvian

Ironically, the being who became known as Tzimisce (for the Clan he/it founded) began as a philosopher and a deeply spiritual man, repulsed by the fleshy concerns of his fellows. His engagement with the realms of natural spirits and the souls of animals drew Caine's attention to him, as such empathy and insight was rare enough to preserve forever. During the time shortly before the Deluge, however, when the Third Generation rebelled against their sires, Tzimisce was cursed by Caine to only be at rest in the soil of its homeland, thus forever tying it to the world it rejected.

This did not stop the Antediluvian from exploring the world washed clean by the Flood, using mortal servants to cart around cases of earth for its slumber. Tzimisce's mastery over the sorcerous arts grew as it traveled and conversed with masters of magical lore, everyone from mountaintop shaman to the burgeoning Hermetic Houses. Then it returned home to the Carpathian mountains in what is now Romania.

It seems that thousands of years ago, before humanity became properly civilized, the Lupines cast a mighty spell that trapped a demonic spirit deep within the Carpathians. Tzimisce's incredible magical power and natural sensitivity to the spirit world drew this demon's attention, and it revealed itself to Tzimisce as "Kupala". The Antediluvian's tuteledge began in earnest, blending his shamanistic ways with the demonic corruption of Kupala, resulting in the school of koldunic sorcery, which is still practiced by Tzimisce vampires into the Modern Nights. The goal of this education was to free Kupala from its earthly prison, something for which Tzimisce was uniquely qualified, as he was able to exert control both over the physical world and the spiritual.

(Continued)

Question. Vampire 'broods' sit around fires telling one another horror stories of these antediluvian things, or are they myth even to the clan they've supposedly sired?

>>14294754

It is hard to say whether the final climactic ceremony was successful or not. Those surviving childer who had learned koldunic sorcery from their sire remember that their powers were increased to earth-shattering levels for a single night, and that afterwards Tzimisce left, and the whispers of the demon Kupala began oozing into the thoughts of every koldunic sorcerer in the world. These sorcerers and several of the Clan's Methuselahs blame Kupala's influence for the corruption of the Clan and the development of the Vicissitude Discipline, ignoring their mastery over the human mind and spirit in favor of the travails of the flesh.

During the Dark Ages, a group of young vampires inspired by the Brujah Tyler sought to diablerize their sires, and their sire's sires. A few particularly ambitious vampires in Clan Tzimisce - led by the Methuselah Lugoj - contemplated diablerizing the Eldest of their clan, Tzimisce itself. As with Kupala, it is difficult to say whether they succeeded or not. According to Lugoj's account, he successfully assaulted and fed from the Eldest while it was in torpor. However, Lambach Ruthven claims that Lugoj not only failed to diablerize the Eldest, but was fooled by the same, and that the Eldest not only survives, but is actively growing underneath the city of New York, New York. A third account, by dint of clan rumor, holds that Tzimisce disintegrated itself into the Blood, and now a tiny piece of the Clan Founder resides in each and every Tzimisce, whereby the Eldest will re-constitute itself by consuming its childer come Gehenna.

Given the strange and twisted uses that Vicissitude is put to, any and all of these possibilities can be true, which is the scariest part of all.

>>14294755
Sabbat claim they're real, Camarilla claim they're fake.

>>14294755
Depends. Official Camarilla stance is that the antideluvians don't even exist, so it comes down to individuals.

>>14294755

Depends entirely on the case. Official Cammy policy is that if they were ever real, they're long since dead now. Belief varies wildly, given that the fates of many are unknown.

>>14294759

Ventrue Antediluvian

Name: Veddhartha
Embraced: Before the Flood
Status: Debatable
Clan: Ventrue
Generation: Third
Sire: Enoch
Childer: Hardestadt, various little Hardestadts, Lucinde (justicar), Cretheus (Inconnu)

(Lucinde: the justicar's official generation is listed as "6th" and her sire as "Severus" in Children of the Night, pg. 50. Make of that what you will.)

According to Justin Achilli on the old White-Wolf forums, Veddartha's mastery of Fortitude allowed him a mastery over life and death pertaining to himself. Thus he stayed dead during Gehenna and rose unscathed once it ended. Therefore the first of the Ventrue is the only vampire to survive the time of judgment.

Any and everything About this guy is pure speculation though.

Did I miss any of them? I think I got them all.

>>14294755
>>14294775

Sorry SoS, more complete answer to follow.

Individual opinions regarding the Antediluvians vary widely, but are largely divided along sect lines between the Camarilla and Sabbat. The Camarilla asserts that the Antediluvians are dead or never even existed, and actively persecutes those who publicly say otherwise. This is part propaganda part genuine belief on their half. Those Kindred who believe the Antediluvians are alive rarely have any real information regarding them and are prone to act rashly and with paranoia, such as by joining the Sabbat or a Gehenna cult. Furthermore, very few of the sect's members are over five centuries old and have thus missed the last period during which the Antediluvians were visibly active. As secular knowledge becomes prevalent, more and more Kindred view the story of Caine and the Antediluvians as creation myths, nothing more.

(Continued)

>>14294782

The Sabbat adheres to a pseudo-religious creed claiming it as their duty to destroy the Antediluvians and their servants. Most believe they are in a war for their very survival and that if the ancients are not stopped all vampires will be enslaved or devoured by them during Gehenna. The sect preaches that the Antediluvians manipulate all Cainites through the Jyhad, and that the Camarilla and surviving Methuselah are their pawns. While generally accepting of the Antediluvians' existence, the knowledge of the average member is not necessarily much greater than their Camarilla counterparts as much of what they are taught is meant to ensure their fanaticism in going to war. Despite the theoretically god-like power of the Antediluvians, the Sabbat claims the noble heritage of having slain two during the Anarch Revolt and most members truly believe they can be defeated.

The majority of the Assamites and Followers of Set not only believe in their clan founders but are indoctrinated to be loyal and even worship the mythical figures. They tend to disagree with traditional Noddist lore, however; some Assamites claim Haqim is a member of the Second Generation, while the Setites believe they are not descended from Caine but from the god Set of Egyptian mythology, with some even going so far as to state all the other clans are descended from him as well.

Little tidbit:

Canonical Noddist lore holds that there are thirteen Antediluvians, one for each of the clans, and that each was Embraced by the Second Generation, meaning that they are all nominally siblings or cousins. Some of the clans believe in very different creation myths, however, particularly those that originate beyond Europe.

While most assume Caine had only three childer and thirteen grandchilder, this may not be the case. Several sources have offered different accounts, including:

1) The Erciyes Fragments states that there were more Cainites at the time of the Great Flood, but presumably few survived during the time which they had to feed on one another for blood. In particular, it cites the childer of Caine to be Enoch, Zillah, Jabal, Adah, Tubal, and Mehujael. It also suggests that the differences in generation came from a curse levied by Caine and did not appear until after his own childer were slain. (VTDA: Erciyes Fragments, pg. 81).

2) In a letter from Vlad Tepes to Mina Harker, Vlad stated that, in his research, he has come across various writings which state that the Third Generation numbered at 9, 27, 100, and 0. He wasn't sure which one was correct. (VTM: Vampire: The Masquerade Second Edition, pg. 13).

3) Ravnos lore claims that their founder, Zapathasura, was created by the gods and sired five childer: Black Mother, the Rakshasa, Chandraputra, Ravana, and Ramessu. Since this tale is incompatible with traditional Noddist lore, these childer may be members of the Third Generation, or they may all be faces of the same individual. (VTM: Clanbook: Ravnos Revised, pp. 18-19).

>>14294800

4) One Setite legend holds that Set became a vampire on his own, and that the Egyptian gods (actually the Gnostic Aeons) created the Antediluvians of the other twelve clans to thwart him. (VTM: Clanbook: Followers of Set Revised, pp. 54-59)

5) Angra Mainyu, a Baali High Priest claimed to have visions revealing that Caine had five childer, not three. (DAV: Clanbook: Baali, pg. 12).

Wait a minute. I think Ravanna is one of the Ravnos antediluvian's childer. As far as I know the widely-used name for the antediluvian himself is Zapathasura.

>>14294782
The beliefs can have interesting results. The WW wiki doesn't say anything about it in her entry, but iirc it was Victoria Ash who was so paranoid about being manipulated by the Antideluvians that she would make major decisions (including turning down the position of Prince of NYC) on random chance, such as flipping a coin in that instance.

>>14294782
>>14294789
Truth or myth, it's an interesting legend. Not the sort of thing that would normally pass my ears around the moot-fire. Thanks for the story.

>>14294406
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>>14294807

Right then, I put all this up, and I should have been sleeping like three hours ago.

Anybody want anything else real quick? Otherwise I'll try to pop in next time there's a Lore thread or something.

Got Vampire down the best, but I can get most anything general if it's quick.

>>14294827
I remember hearing once about a connection in origin between Zapathasura/the Ravnos and Werewolves, do you know anything about that?

>>14294834

Nope.

If it's true it might explain that particular blind-spot in my knowledge on the matter.

>>14294850
I only heard it in passing, and I have no idea what he was talking about. I'll have to ask about it.

This thread is exactly why my group has adapted oWoD vampires, demons and mages to work in nWoD. The lore is just so much more interesting.

It can also lead to some great 'oshiiiit' moments, especially when there's one or two new guys around.

>>14294863

The lore is more interesting if your imagination sucks ass yeah. The overall metaplot was fucking god awful.

>>14294863
In before fags who bitch about oWoD lore being too restricting, and ignore the "This shit is optional, use whatever you like best" paragraph at the beginning of every book.

>>14294861

My advice? White Wolf Forums. I hate the place, but if you want lore and I'm not there it is pretty much the only place I'm aware of.

Except Wikis, but good luck finding something that fucking obscure.

Out of curiosity, has this been archived? Not sure it's worthy of it, but I don't want to have to type up a wall of text like that again if I can avoid it.

>>14294863
>This thread is exactly why my group has adapted oWoD vampires, demons and mages to work in nWoD. The lore is just so much more interesting.

Not arguing that oWoD fluff is better. But nWoD intentionally set out from square one to be more a generic tool kit that storytellers could use to put together their own versions of the World of Darkness. So yeah, they intentionally write a bit vaguely and in broad strokes, and shy away from being too specific and metaplots.

>>14294870
>>14294871
Damn, I was late.

>>14294834
Nah, you've got it wrong. It's not Zapathasura you're thinking of. There are stories telling that Ennoia, the Gangrel antediluvian, is mother of all werewolves. The same story tells that she was a daughter of Lilith. Again, the truth is left intentionally vague, and whether all this is true is entirely up to the ST.

>>14294877

I'm not sure I said it was 'restrictive' at all did I? I said the metaplot was god awful not 'oWoD is restrictive'. Derp.

>>14294870 Stop liking what I don't like!

>>14294870
>>14294888
>implying you can't use oWoD lore without dragging in the whole metaplot
>implying you can't pick and choose and use what you want
>implying you're not some kind of retard

>>14294898

>Stop disliking what I like!

>>14294904

Delicious butthurt.

>>14294906
I don't invade M:TG threads and whine about it being a shitty game, and I expect the same courtesy of other people.

>>14294914
Found one.

This guy is butthurt about nothing. Both WoD editions were made to be heavily ST-influenced in terms of background. There’s not problem with incorporating parts of oWoD that are more interesting to you and your group.