I would think the bigger question is where the fuck did the high tech gadgets come from. Its not everyday you find centuries old power armor just laying around...

>>14540119

A promiscuous matriarchy ruled by /d/ supporting a breed of explorers and poets.

I say for sure that RPG sessions become something of a theatrical event. A Gm sets up with the actors the general guidelines upon which things will play out and from there, the players act to direct a set of skilled actors for an audience. Monsters wait in the wings dressed in garish clothes including sometimes real animals for rare special shows

>>14540166
With Aspect disciplines trained by /k/, /g/, etc.

Let's have fields of marijuana and brew tons of liquor, it'll make us a lot if cash an we'll be on peoples good side.

Plus if we can keep /b/ drunk and high or long enough they'll become a reasonable force after /k/ ha murdered their un-prepared outer villages.

Ape never kills ape. We should avoid killing other people.

rolled 2 = 2

Wait, xeno-adaptation period? As in just adjusting to the weird day/night cycle, or something else?

>>14540193
...cash? you assume we'd have money at anypoint soon?

>>14540166

>>14540202
>Hahaha oh wow

You've never heard of chimpanzees and gorillas have you?
-Chimps will go on raiding parties to kill smaller monkeys or kill rival chimps.
-When a male gorilla rises to power, he'll often kill the infants that aren't his.

>>14540203
Day/night cycles, mostly. The food causes gastronomic problems for a while, but nothing life threatening.

>>14540209
I mean cash as a place holder for wealth, of course cash in this would would be guns and food.

>>14540203
Circadian cycles, as well as adjusting to the new microflora and fauna that would be inside of us. large animals take a certain amount of micro fauna/flora to live and it varies on where they are from. We'd have to adjust to having new xeno forms inside of us

>>14540225
food metal, artifacts we find nifty any number of things really

>>14540209
Why not? We should try to modernize as quickly as possible.
>>14540220
It's a quote. Of course animals attack each other; they're animals.

>>14540247
We are animals...Stop fooling yourself.

Also, money needs a backing using the system we have today is a terrible idea. Any monetary system needs a standard of some sort. We'd need something like gold or silver or another metal all of which are a pain to get

What do we do about the crystal winds?

>>14540231
Let's pretend this doesn't happen for reasons of no-one wants to role playa world where they're puking for 2 months.

>>14540267
True, we figured a ten year timeskip anyways.

>>14540265
Eh? What are you on about?

>>14540243
We need /sci/ since they know how to make bullets and guns, and /k/ for obvious reasons so trading computer parts to them to repair tech would be in-valuable.

>>14540264

>Backing.
All it needs is a strong government to 'stand by' the currency it mints.
It needs no 'inherently precious' item-- that is a mercantilist conception.

>>14540286
I assume you are talking about the Alchemist the weird machine that builds shit for them?

>>14540286
>since they know how to make bullets and guns
I know how to make bullets and guns. I reckon plenty of us do, far better than /sci/entists.

>>14540264
Combat is supedangerous. It's easy to forget that, but violence should be an absolute last resort. We lack medical technology and we have a low population. We are very intelligent animals; we can always come up with something better. And money backed with precious metals is retarded. We should create money backed with meat.

>>14540286

/sci/ is worthless.
It's a Science Fetishism board, concerned more with misconceptions about aliens and rampant Academic Masturbation.

Plenty of people on /tg/ know how to smelt metal and make gunpowder.
/k/, too.

>>14540305
Something dictated almost monthly...Yes great idea.
>>14540295
Well jim, I'm an ecologist not an Economist what do you expect of me?

I say spontaneous genderswaps happen so that the ratio is 50:50.

/tg/-- you don't even need the other boards.

We could use /d/ for the women, though. The very sexy women.
Only /b/ and /d/ have good amounts.

>>14540332
You have the option of grabbing someone in exchange for a hundred pounds of gear. Grab a woman and stop pushing a fetish

We need to get on making weapons for defense, eventually we will get a bunch of refugee's/looters/stupid cunts so well need to keep them away.

Also does anyone want to become a Viking esque Nation, I understand if you don't but it mite be cool.

>>14540349
Just trying to make it a bit more board related.

>>14540351
I'd say some more of the sort that offers the olive branch first, should you deny it. you get to deal with the fun task of our raiding parties periodically dropping by and causing hell

>>14540349
What happens when 90% of people don't take women, and Rape becomes one of the more viable means of reproduction?

>>14540299
No, Iv seen threads where they discussed creation of high grade bullets.

>>14540321
There's a lot of science undergrads on /sci/. It's not a lot, but it's something. And for metal and gunpowder, it takes more than knowing what they are made of to make them. Can you identify and mine ore? Extract the metal, sulfur, and potassium nitrate from it? And what about storage? And even if you could, can you also make the necessary tools?

>>14540367
It really can't physically speaking. Rape puts way to much stress on the body.

If thats the case we die out or vacate and look for greener pastures

>>14540364

Just go for a Roman style of government, augmented by the US Constitution.

"Become Protectorate, or die."

Once Protectorate, they gradually adopt our laws and customs, whilst benefiting from our advanced technology and protection.

>>14540367
Well we have /soc/ and /fa/ to steal women from and sell to other nations/keep as our wives.

I believe that forced female marriage will become necessary but how about we try not to rape/beat them to death.

>>14540386
If anything It should be a highly punishable offense. our bodies will already be pushed to severe limits. No sense making it worse

>>14540369

Yes, I can.
And so can anyone with a fucking Merck Manual in arm's reach.

>>14540367
It won't. People will prize women and guard them, or women will be treated as a resource. Either way, women will have the right of choice. Same as in other situations where gender ratios are skewed that way.

The minimum needed to survive is 175 people of each gender. I think we'll manage. Some of our lines will end, but no need to kidnap people.

>>14540410

Oh they can choose.

They just can't choose not to reproduce.

>>14540415
We talked earlier briefly about creating a program that sends dignitaries of both genders to various boards nations, they trade them with us and bear each side children. Spreading genetic diversity and increasing variety on both sides of the coin.

>>14540406
What? What does a medical textbook have to do with ore processing?

>>14540424
And if they choose weaker, less intelligent males, the stronger ones will just say no to that choice. ETC ETC AND HUMAN HISTORY.

>>14540455
Women usually have okay taste.

>>14540452

http://www.merckbooks.com/mindex/

>>14540471
They don't. They mostly feel about those guys roughly the same way we do.

>>14540471
...how? They are thousands of miles away.

>>14540483
/d/-girls, maybe. They like soft sensitive males to play with.

But when confronted with a bare muscled chest dripping with sweat...

>>14540470
A chemistry manual. Good luck using it without known chemicals and no mass spectrometry

>>14540500
you realize that at the end of the first year if you're not dead that's probably what you will be.

Also, /fit/ really is thousands of miles away.

>>14540500
They do like nice chests, that's true. But not big guys like on /fit/ and /sp/, more like a swimmer's chest. And guys without nice chests can look good in clothes and still pick up chicks plenty. I know, because my chest isn't all that great and chicks think I'm hot as fuck.

>>14540506

You haven't read it or looked at a page ever in your life.
(Or even the fucking website description.)

It describes many methods of inorganic assay including visual discrimination by color, scent, and crystalline structure.
It describes solubility tests, methods of synthesis, ore-based and plant sources.
Along with historical uses, places of discovery, and related industrial processes.

>>14540532

>implying all women have the same physical preferences for men.

Also, the most perfectly sculpted abs in the world won't get me to sleep with a guy who's a colossal douchebag. We do look for more than just looks in a guy.

>>14540540
Then give me an outline of how you would get and store gun powder.

>>14540564
I know not all women do. And I know physical appearance isn't that important. But predominantly, women like a nice chest.

Also I'm a good looking douchebag and I find plenty of chicks interested in me. Just not ones who I'm also interested in.

>>14540565

(Exact steps not written here for convenience.)

Carbon from charcoal from thermal processing of wood.

Nitrate from either prismatic nitre deposits identified by Index description or the extremely tedious urine fermentation processes per Index description.
(White phosphorous also extractable from the urine fermentation, as a side note.)

Sulfur from the extremely obvious native sulfur deposits in volcanic regions.

Then ball-mill, or stone-grind, or anything you like for a fine powder.
Store dry in whatever you like. (That doesn't friction it to ignition.)

Gunpowder is FUCKING EASY once you're aware of what chemicals go together to make it.
And there's always experimentation to discern your local spread of resources, as per inorganic-assay technique or the general Having of Fun.

>>14540691
I concede. You are right and I am not.

Blasting powder away!

>>14540691
I wonder if the other boards have someone who could find and produce gunpowder. We could have a monopoly on awesome for quite a while!

>>14540748
/k/

>>14540765
You sure?

>>14540772
Yeah reasonably certain

>>14540765
Do they know how to make charcoal and saltpeter and sulfur? Are you suuuurrrrrreeeee?

>>14540790
its possible, charcoal isn't that hard to make

>>14540812
>>14540790

I haven't really seen many threads on MAKING weapons from /k/. Just using them. Perhaps we should ask?

>>14540790
And anyone can find sulfur; it's bright yellow

008 you still here?

>>14540832
Okay
>>>/k/8662393

so, who here can domesticate animals? WE may need to figure out a whole new set of critters to work with

You know, it might genuinely be possible to make a PnP game based on this scenario for 4chan Island.

>>14540923
Its been thought of. There was talk of using FATE

>>14540852
Yeah.

>>14540923
If it's realistic, it won't be a lot of fun, it'd need to be mixed with something like coc style monster hunting/being hunted and whoops you died of dysentery!

>>14540915
I can. It's a matter of eating the difficult ones in a pack.

>>14540940

Hmmmm. An entirely new system would be best, though!
We could make it wonderful, and sexy, and have Board of Origin, then maybe Real Life Skills.

Everyone should have similar room for adaptability and starting-skill, though.
Maybe Dwarf Fortress style. Point-buy.
(Even though it isn't extremely realistic.)

>>14540959
>If it's realistic, it won't be a lot of fun
You sir, are a fool. Realistic games can be tons of fun.

>>14540959
given there are things like alien laser rifles laying about. Its possible to make high adventure even. It also depends where in the timeline of things you set it. If its the days of when people are first looking for where everyone is versus established tribes versus city states

>>14540962
The animals you want are ones that live in herds, eat plants, and don't spook easy. Are there any critters like bison or mammoths?

>>14540977

Well, we don't need to have alien laser rifles around.

It can be just... a survival situation!

I rather do like the Dwarf Fortress suggestion, too!

The Tortolo, a common sight almost everywhere on Lenore is a squat bulky creature. Six thick almost tree-trunk like legs support a roughly egg-shaped body. Covering the back, are small horny like plates that have determined to be Scutes much like terrestrial alligators and crocodilia. These larger stronger bits of scale however act to form a sort of armor against creatures which have been confirmed to prey upon them such as Yowler, and Rapedactyl. Equipped with a distinct overbite the creature is able to lop off collections of foliage with this buck-toothed jawline. Internally they bear a notable resemblance to bovine species on Earth and seem to be ruminants. Beyond this general format numerous subspecies do exist carrying with them many distinct traits in themselves.

>>14541016
tortolo bear live young usually having two to three. These Pups are usually at birth only weigh around fifty pounds and will almost immediately crawl onto the back of their mothers for protection. they will stay here for the first eight hours while their scutes harden and calcify into their own protective shield. From this point onward they will travel with the herd on foot and consume much of what their parents do. Preferring things with high sugar content and proteins such as berries and nutty fruits. Within the first six months these rather petite creatures will nearly triple in size and by the one year mark will be almost half what they will eventually weigh. After this hallmark, they will plateau for at least three years, slowly gaining more mass and learning the ways of their herd. At the fourth year, the tortolo is of breeding age. At this time in their life cycle males and females will develop obvious sexual dimorphism. Males, already notably larger will often lose patches of scutes on their back.

>>14540976
Well, I mean realistic as rp'ing months of gastrointestinal adaption, misery of missing all you've left behind, adapting to a hard life of survival and watching your friends die.

>>14540977
I'm more inclined to believe that any tech we find will be so inhuman in design we may not even be able to figure out what it does unless specifically designed for a humanoid.

>>14541028
These readily are replaced by brightly colored gold, blue and green scales that shine with a slight iridescent sheen. They will also develop in some species more pronounced fore-claws as well as bony ridges that are used to compete for females. The females, will stay in essence the same. though, often healthy individuals will develop obvious deposits of fat. In particular in the posterior half of the body. These lumps are theorized to be protection during procreation as well as surplus energy for gestation. This also results in females often being referred to as having 'lady lumps' after a song from old Earth. From now on after the wet season has ended, these adults will fill the air with a constant low throaty song in search of mates, Will mark and create territorial areas which heard of females and young can wander into and also enter into violent or at least seemingly so courtship rituals. All in the effort to pass on their genetic material to the next generation.

>>14541037
One of the staple species of many areas, it is theorized that a sites condition can be determined by the number of tortolo that are present and healthy. The large animals act as a suppressor on the rampant trees and forestation of areas setting them back ecologically and allowing plants that prefer full sunlight to grow anf flourish. Their grazing habits also contribute to a form of pastoral setting, making many xeno-archaeologist wonder if the tortolo of today were not a domesticated version of some other beast.

>>14541030
>months of gastrointestinal adaption,
We can glaze over that. Folks normally glaze over shitting when roleplaying.
>misery of missing all you've left behind,
Eh, wouldn't be that bad.
>adapting to a hard life of survival
That's the whole damn point.
>and watching your friends die.
There's some tragedy potential there. Ignoring it would be pointless.

>>14541016
Ok. We feed the regularly. We kill them as needed, picking which one to kill in the following order:
1) The sick (but burn the meat)
2) The angry or territorial
3) The one with the hardest scales.

Tortolo or trolol

A bovine analouge with alligator scales

>>14541073
Am I the only that sees the potential for BATTLE CATTLE?

>>14541030

Not so!
As long as the laws of physics hold true, any alien technology is reverse-engineerable with a comprehensive understanding of modern information.

This was no so even 50 years ago, but fortunately nowadays we've got good conceptions of things that are POSSIBLE, even if not achieved yet.

Unless it's similar to some sort of anti-gravity machine that runs on a completely undiscovered energy source, we can probably work it out.
Same with having any external control systems.
It would have to use some completely unheard of phenomena to be difficult to figure out. And then, only difficult.

Observe and experiment.

>>14541030
>I mean realistic as rp'ing months of gastrointestinal adaption, misery of missing all you've left behind, adapting to a hard life of survival and watching your friends die.

That's grit. You can have a semi-realistic game without it being ultra-gritty darkgrim meant to accurately simulate what happens to the human mind when everything goes to shit.

>>14541092
I'd rather have cattle that we can slaughter without it slaughtering us first.

>>14541094
>This was no so even 50 years ago, but fortunately nowadays we've got good conceptions of things that are POSSIBLE, even if not achieved yet.
We thought that 50 years ago too.

>>14541094
From what we've seen its wickedly advanced stuff. Things like enough stored energy in something not much bigger than a softball to fire lasers or power a suit of rather simple power armor covered in mass produced sapphire sheets/

>>14541104
Same having a strain we train up to be battle animals may serve useful though. Imagine having a rudimentary mortar on one of these!

>>14540889

ADVISORY

ADVISORY:

/k/ has lost its ability to manufacture at the very least Gunpowder based weaponry.

>>>/k/8662393

No useful answers.
Almost no thread interest.
Some answers blatantly false, like:
>"First, sulfur is too reactive to find raw,"

/k/ has been altered to Soldier class.
Ability to use weapons and maintain them.
Not necessarily produce.

>>14541127
That would be as simple as training them like horses to not shy from explosions. But a mortar on anything's back will break that creature's back. We'd be better off having them pull the thing on a cart.

>>14541127
I'd rather just wear them.

>>14541153
what

>>14541073
We don't want to breed them to have softer scales. Their hides are likely our best source of armor.

>>14541142
Oh wow, you're right. They have no IDEA how to make gunpowder. That thread is pretty funny, actually.

>>14541143
That is true my bad. Ive been drinking a little and have been working on a project about bubonic plague and prairie dogs. (Yes, they get it too) poor sodding bastards.

>>14541094
Even so, there would be tech in shapes we wouldn't expect. Is that a gun or a device that generates radiation to jumpstart a power system we're unfamiliar with? I digress though, my complaint isn't so much that the tech is there, just the amount of it and it's condition. How long ago did the builders die out? How long has it been sitting there. Stuff decays rapidly without maintenance and care. I'd suggest one or two devices per city, and something that city unites to protect from the other cities. Not fields littered with gundam parts and alien arsenals.

>>14541168
Ok

>>14541142
>No useful answers.

What

>Almost no thread interest.

Not surprising.

>Some answers blatantly false

Also not surprising.

A single 20-post thread in the early morning is not enough to convince me that nobody on /k/ could make gunpowder.

>>14541196

Make a note to try again at prime time.

At the very least, /tg/ has guaranteed gunpowder access. Even early-morning 4chan time.

We also don't seem to have people vehemently arguing things that are completely false.
At least for this.
That's a huge advantage in itself.

>>14541191
True its been figured for things like gigants there may be Twenty total many of which are still not found, motes equally missing and hell Dragons teeth we've got the most that being a whopping twenty or ten I forget

If we have pine trees, long boats. Otherwise Cataracts/catamarans.

>>14541257
We have some analogs to them again not the islands, Its a whole damn planet we don't recongnize with a whole set of rules we aren't even sure IT follows

We would need to get a team together to start agriculturing ASAP.

>>14541294
>agriculturing
That is not a word. Furthermore, the closest actual word, "Agriculture" is very broad. We don't know what you mean by this.

>>14541315

If you were less pretentious, you might understand that he likely means "Farming."

Or generally utilizing the neolithic discipline of Agriculture.

>>14541294
I think one of the reasons these planets are always made so stupidly big is to support a hunter-gatherer society. Obviously living post 4000BCE we see we need to farm but I think this may be a weird reverse.

As for /k/ not knowing how to make gunpowder. It's fairly common knowledge that you can get Salt petre from piss, but pure sulphur is why it is a joke. Also blackpowder is a pointless endavor early on. Why not medieval style crossbows?

>>14541331
"Farming" is also very broad.
There's a lot of shit that goes down on a farm.

>>14541333
Me again. I'm gonna grab some potatoes. I will enjoy my life in this new world.

>>14541333
Farming leads to a division of labor. We want this.

Basic human technologies are a given. What would be different about 4chan culture that would make it interesting?

>>14541333

Several seconds on the wiki for Sulfur indicates that elemental sulfur is found very commonly.

Urine itself doesn't contain potassium nitrate.

It's like you're an infiltrator from /k/ trying to argue things blatantly false to directly spite previous posters.

Agriculture is silly when we first colonize. We should know how to do it, and experiment with how to fertilize soil, but hunting and gathering is easier and leaves us with more time for a small population initially.

Also, it would vary our diet. That's important. Eating something like the three sisters would keep us alive, but wouldn't be super nourishing.

Journal Log: Day 31
Well, the guy who are the minnow thing is dead now. His stomach was terribly distended and one of the guys burying him said he kind of.. popped while they were tossing dirt in the hole and there were worms. We all agreed that rainwater was not a viable water source until further tests could be done. On the brighter side of things, the clouds have parted and we have clear skies. It's still chilly out, but no sign of it getting worse. It kind of reminds me of winter back home. Except with more struggle for life and death. We were all discussing putting together a team to head down to the ocean and grind up some salt from the water. Salt has many uses and someone said they knew how to extract sea salt. The trip is long, and they'll need something to tow the supplies and return with a worthwhile amount of salt and whatever else. It'd kind of funny that we have to invent the wheel again, figure out how to make one with the resources available. Plenty of wood but what to keep it together with? As I'm writing this, I'm watching a group of larpers act out scenes from Baldur's Gate. It's the most fucking hilarious thing I've seen all month.

>>14541362

You can make rope with fiber of any kind, especially plant fiber...

Am I the only one who went to a high school that taught outdoor ed?

>>14541342
I agree. And the plants and animals aren't even from Earth, so it's going to take some experimentation to get going.

Also, can you bring someone with you against their will?

>>14541362
Twine is pretty easy to make.

>>14541370
Probably, since I've never even heard of that before.

>>14541353

Well, most likely a society based on 4channers would be a bit more peaceful.

There are not likely to be roving bands of warlords about, since that isn't the lifestyle and experience of most people who have the time and ability to access this website.

>Also, why does Firefox recognize 4channers as a word? Eeeenteresting.

>>14541380

That's right, it's a new deal. My bad. Damned useful class.

>>14541381
It doesn't speller check words with numbers

>>14541362
Water? Just boil, then run the water through filters made of rocks, fine sand, and crushed activated charcoal. It's as clean as it would ever be. Drinking water problem solved.

>>14541370
That's a point, I don't know that. I'm writing these from my perspective, so while I wouldn't know how to make rope, you'd be there to do it. Unless you died of something.

>>14541394
Part of an earlier post and discussion, there were things in the water that boiling and filtering didn't clean. Avoiding rain water was an extra precaution, we had plenty of water from two aqueducts anyways.

>>14541360
Agriculture should be started immediately, in conjunction with hunting and gathering.
Crops take time to grow, soil to condition. As soon as a food-crop is identified, it should be planted in ever increasing plots.

If the plants are complete xeno-breeds, we'd need to begin genetically engineering them immediately.
(Cross breeding for disease resistance, cataloging.)

Modern corn wasn't always like that. Centuries of engineered breeding and modification have made it hearty.
(Same with almost all modern produce. Wild strawberries are very small, for instance.)

>>14541370
You well may have been the only one... But growing up in the fucking sticks, I knew it too. And much basic survival is easily taught.

>>14541360
Agriculture takes less time
>>14541405
I agree

>>14541354
I am a /k/ommando. I was watching this thing on Henry VIII and it said a german said to get people who drink shitloads of beer to piss in a mug and pour it ontop of horse shit and wheat chaf and it needed to be sifted regularly then you'd get Salt peter. I don't remember exactly, sorry.

Whoever said sulphur is plentiful good. I know how to make charcoal--viking style fech jar--and salt peter so just remember SP 15-Sulphur 3-Coal 2

>>14541402

We should try to make the setting a bit... less silly.

Magic crap in the rainwater would kill 90% of the population almost immediately.
(Unless they had heard about it before hand, in which case it would still kill 90% of the population... only slower.)

>>14541405

But it's not very nutritious. The hunting and gathering societies were far healthier than the first agricultural ones. We should know how for when we start rebuilding urban centers, but until then hunting and gathering is vastly healthier.

On earth we'd use one part compost, one part peat, one part vermiculite to grow just about any food crop. However, we'd have to do some figuring in the new world.

>>14541396

Ah. Then let me explain: you tear up something with fibers into strips, then twist and tie the end together, then fold and tie, and repeat until you get something thicker and longer, going for thickness early on then longness when you have more links.

Actually, making rope is tedious, and I haven't done it in a long time. Huh.

>>14541402
Rain would actually be far more likely to be clean. Standing water is a danger, still water is to be avoided period.

Any worry that rain water has is magnified in standing water by virtue of time and collection of rain.

>>14541423

No, no it does not.

I assume you've never grown a garden? It takes a lot longer to get your food than hunting where game is plentiful or gathering where food is abundant.

>>14541463
>>14541423
Agriculture takes less man hours for the work involved, but it takes a full year to get anything out of it.
We'd need to hunt for the first year at least.

>>14541451
The dangers of malnutrition pale in comparison to the dangers of the hunt.

>>14541451

We're not the first agricultural societies.
We have a conception of nutritional balance.

There's no way for a hunter/gatherer society to support sufficient population to produce urban centers.
It doesn't work that way.
Heh. The Native Americans tried it, and stagnated for hundreds of years.

>>14541474
Agreed
>>14541463
I have a tomato garden, and I grow basil.

>>14541451
Growing food crops is easier than that in the beginning:
Find what soil it's growing in. Plant it in that.

The crop-rotation may be a bit tricky, but that's later on.

If the man power can be spared, farming should begin immediately. Remains from gathered foods and animals would make excellent mulch for planting experiments.

>>14541474

You've never grown anything before, have you? Man hours to feed a large-medium population without machinery... fucking huge. Am I the only person who comes from a rural southern family here?

>>14541476

Then gather, and hunt when you can.

>>14541477

Really? So do the purple and green things provide protein or complex carbohydrates? Oh wait, we don't know yes, hence why we need to experiment, but keep our diet varied.

>>14541463
Are you seriously arguing to feed a large society on only exclusively hunting and gathering?

Human History-- It Doesn't Work Like That.

We can hunt, gather, AND farm, all at the same time, and I have no idea why you're arguing against that.

>>14541488
>>14541485

Ah yes, herbs and tomatoes. Ever dug furrows? How often do you weed? Do you box farm, or have you had to dig the rocks out of the soil first?

>>14541488
We'll just leave it fallow every other year. And alternate deep root and shallow root plants.

>>14541493
You've never lived off of hunting and gathering before, have you? It's more man hours.

>>14541493

Your personal experience is irrelevant, and universally contradicted by both human history and modern research.

>>14541500

I didn't say exclusively, but we couldn't rely on it for a very long time.

You're welcome.

>>14541493
Heh, rural south Georgia here.

A new planet should provide much food for us, but, I can't think of a good reason to not start farming quickly if we have the people.

Journal Log, Day 32
Well, someone invented the wheel. It's not 100% round and not exactly sturdy, but it'll do for the time being. I helped assemble two ricksaws our salt team is going to be using. We're sending out about 12 guys, all armed. Several pots for boiling down the brine and of course some silk filters we cut from a parachute. (Someone brought a parachute with them, what the hell? Gives me some ideas though.) Another group is already moving ahead of them, one of the exploration teams, who are cutting a path through the woods. It occurs to me that we're living in a communist society. Everyone working for each other. It's working but this shit never lasts. I figure we should get some leadership of some kind going before we're knee deep in bloody revolutions. Lastly, a few people have worked out some kind of paint using plant pigments. The plants are certainly colorful enough and provide a large palette to make from. Anyways, I'm on farm duty tomorrow, the green potato things apparently did extremely well in the harsh weather earlier.

>>14541504
Dug the rocks out. I weed once a week. And I haven't dug furrows.

>>14541507
>>14541506
>>14541513


Lol. Gonna go start a splinter society and let you guys starve and not know how to make basic supplies.

>>14541514
>Couldn't rely on farming and animal husbandry.

Just leave.

>>14541500
I don't think you get it. We're going to lose a fairly large chunk of our population to malnutrition, allergic reactions, and poisons in the foods we're gathering. We're going to need as much manpower as possible collecting edibles, because some of it is going to end up being unsafe, and some of it is going to end up not being usable anyway, and the rest may not have everything we need to live. Any time we don't sink into collecting (and cataloging new types of) food is time and calories wasted. Once we know what we can safely eat, we'll be able to better budget for setting up farming, but until then we're on a 2000 kilocal a day race against time.

>>14541529

Furrows suck ass, trust me. Especially by had.

>>14541534
Well he's right that we couldn't at first. We need the infrastructure to exist first.

>>14541534

If you and I were there, I would. You would die without a guide.

CULTURAL TENET:

Do not trust people who's only evidence is:
"You'd have to see it."
"I know from experience."
"You haven't grown up that way."

EVIDENCE MUST BE PROVIDED.

>>14541515

>>14541539
I'd imagine. I'd love to get into agriculture, but there's no way I could.

>>14541564

It feels good to grow something with your own hands. It's a bitch sometimes though, especially in poor soil.

>>14541552

You don't understand boy. I can hunt, trap, and track.

I choose to farm because it fits this society better and we've got the technology and know-how for it.

Should I bring my laptop?

>>14541562

Be careful with those water filters.

Unless it's a ceramic membrane, perhaps with silver particles, it's not going to eliminate soluble toxins and bacteria.

Distillation is best, and not hard.

We likely won't have activated charcoal, unfortunately.

>>14541577
What are you going to power it with after a few days?

>>14541577
No. It won't last very long and the toxic metals are a liability.

>>14541574

No, no we don't.

>>14541537

This poster understands.

>>14541577
Yes. let's just hope someone else brought pen and paper, and can write quickly!

>>14541606

Yes. We do.

Are you so used to machine farming that you can't plant out logarithmic plots yourself?

You don't fucking go FULL FARM on day one. But you damn well better START one day one, or you'll never have a sustainable food economy.

The first food crop you ID, that gets gathered and planted.
It doesn't take many people to root cuttings and start test plots.
But you better fucking have people do it while others hunt, or you're going to have NOTHING by next generation.

You understand?
You start small, or you don't start at all. (At least in farming.)

>>14541649
and thus was born the Boardchan archive.

What happened on the years that game isn't plentiful?

>>14541598
It's a power saver, so we might be able to make it last for a week with super dim lighting and some cheetah blood. Get someone who reads fast and has a good memory to absorb as much as possible.

Or someone could bring one of those little solar generators.

>>14541676

Transfer the contents to microscript, bring a microscript viewer.

>>14541661

Lolno. You mean we invest large amounts of backbreaking labor while operating blind, with no clue under what conditions are best for growing a certain crop, with no idea of any nutritional value it may have other than "edible".

I think we should experiment with box farming and other methods. That said, no. We'd need to hunt and gather while picking up horticulture and some level of animal husbandry.

>>14541676
Print errything.

>>14541693
Starting day one is ill advised. But I would start trying to learn what is farmable ass soon as possible.

Journal Log, Day 47
Hey, I thought I lost this thing. Well, by estimates, the salt team should be on their way back. Now for some really fucked up news. One of the fatgirls, turns out she wasn't fat. She was pregnant. She's dead now and through some holy shit miracle, the baby survived. The girls are taking turns caring for her and are working on a name. I don't know if she'll make it considering how harsh this place is. In other news, we have leadership now. We formed a ruling council by all voting one member from each division. We of course had to form divisions first. We have our Engineers, our Science guys, the Hunters/Explorers, Agriculture and Maintenance (everyone else). I'm a regular in the explorer teams and almost got elected, but not quite. The other guy was probably a better choice. I'm already planning out next explorer mission. We're to meet up with the salt team and assist in escorting them in. Afterwards, another group will take their gear and head right back out for more. In the meantime, I will finally enjoy having soft bedding in the first time since I arrived.

Food safety identification is relatively easy. Given three hundred new foods, number each, have one hundred volunteers numbered, and have each eat only their number food and the two neighboring numbered food for three days. If two or three of the three people who ate that food died, it's off limits. Single death foods require testing at a later date. Bam. Three hundred foods tested in days.

>>14541693

Wherein do you think test plots of ever increasing size is "backbreaking"?

No one is saying that a new society wouldn't need to hunt.
You seem to be saying it's the only thing people should be doing.

Human history says you're not correct.
Agricultural knowledge needs to be preserved in practice, and developed actively.

You don't need everyone hunting.
You do need people who know how to farm, test soil, and catalogue plants to do it AT THE START.

Before they fucking die of Magic Virus or whatever deadly bullshit is around.

Division Of Labor.
Not everyone should be hunting. Or gathering.
Some people should be doing the society-building things to ensure a healthy future.

>>14541693
Keep in mind folks are bringing some things too. You know how much effort it takes to grow potatoes? Not very fucking much.

>>14541721

What I'm advocating. Plentiful areas though would keep us fed for a while, but we'd have to be a bit migratory. That's why we'd need to start on agriculture for when we want to settle.

Question: how many people here can tie a knot? Several kinds? Start a fire? Track? Make and break camp?

>>14541753
This brings to mind an interesting point:

We should have teaching rotations.

People with useful skills should take turns teaching them to others.

(And simultaneously having them written down by scribes.)

>>14541753

No one said just hunting and gathering, but it would be the only reliable method for some time.

You're taking an extraordinarily long history, most of which was hunting and gathering, and pretending it all happened overnight. Most people today can't do shit for themselves.

>>14541762

Yeah, sure. Potatoes will grow in the alien soil! And breaking sod on never before broken land, digging out rocks, and furrowing the land? Fucking cake walk. Yep.

>>14541767
I learned those things in fucking Webelos. None are complex, none make you better than anyone else.

>>14541767
>how many people here can tie a knot? Several kinds? Start a fire? Track? Make and break camp?
How many people can go to the fucking bathroom by themselves?
Presumably fucking everybody.

>>14541767
>Migratory.
>Alien world.
>Bringing things with us.

Oh just leave...

>>14541773
This

>>14541721
>>14541696
>>14541667
>>14541602
>>14541564
>>14541529
>>14541506
>>14541485
>>14541476
I'm going to start trippfaggin

>>14541793
I can't

>>14541786
>And breaking sod on never before broken land,
It's work, but it's not impossible.
>digging out rocks,
It's work, but it's doable, and we can be lazy with this because it's fucking potatoes.
>and furrowing the land?
Why would we bother with that for potatoes?

Do you even know what a potato is, besides "those brown things in bags at the grocery store"?

>>14541794
Be nice to Mwu. He's a smart man and great asset.

>>14541793
No! You don't understand! Only HE knows how to holds a dick properly! Everyone else would probably just fuck it up!

>>14541792

Considering that they are useful skills and require actual practice to be used, yes they do.

>>14541793

Not even close.

>>14541794

I would. I would leave behind anyone who lacked useful knowledge or equipment or who lacked the willingness to yield to someone who knows what the fuck they are talking about when survival is on the line.

If it came down to it I'd leave you to die because you would be worse than dead weight: you would actively be misdirecting survival efforts.

>>14541815
Well, that's no good. But you'll learn quick enough. There can't be many folks that share this deficiency.

>>14541792

Really. BASIC survival skills can be taught by the very many people knowledgeable in them on arrival.

Migration with a newly-transported group of people is asking for death.

First step: Establish defensive perimeter. Catalogue hostiles.
Next: Food/Water items, shelter.
Then: Gather resources, division of labor.

You don't seem to understand that Migratory Hunter Gatherers were not that way because it was BETTER.

They just didn't KNOW ANY BETTER.

>>14541835
A real man never leaves anyone behind.

>>14541843
>You don't seem to understand that Migratory Hunter Gatherers were not that way because it was BETTER.
>They just didn't KNOW ANY BETTER.
Fucking this.

>>14541835
No one is going with you. You're actively talking about abandoning people knowledgeable in agriculture, animal domestication, and the physical sciences.

I think perhaps some folks are not realizing that there will be more than a couple folks there. We can have people at base camp growing and making, and parties of rovers hunting and gathering. That's how we'll be best served, in fact. We need the rovers for food. We need the growers to get us to a state of agriculture and makers to make shit.

Mwu, at the very least you're not doing a bri good job of explaining why you're right, other than coming across as "lol u die." Please consider rethinking your words and trying again.

>>14541820

Yeah. You know you can only plant them when they start seeding, right? They're an easy staple crop, but they wouldn't necessarily grow in alien soil.

And if you don't think that would be fucking hard work, you can try it without me.

>>14541843
>>14541839

Try again. It's not an elite skill, but it's just one not many people have picked up. Very important though. Learnable, but important.

And they were migratory because food supplies were sufficient. Only in areas that they were not was agriculture invented.

>>14541847

I would cut out the people who would drag me down with them.

>>14541773
I'm namefagging myself now.

In the medieval era if you were lucky enough to go to Uni, your class would be the teacher reading the [text]book outloud as you wrote it down. You were supposed to write fast but legibly then after class you would read what you wrote and learn from it. Basically forcing you to print of your lesson for the day.
If we reverted to this system for a while it would create for us a modest compendium of knowledge in serving sizes on different topics. One person knows the basic of boat building? We now have 12 eight page papers of his verbatim exhaustive talk on all he can muster from memory.

>>14541859

That's what most people have been saying, thankfully.

There's a few, maybe only one, person with a fetish for abandoning neolithic technology.

Journal Log: Day 48
Headed out today to meet with the salt team and escort them back. Things are going pretty well. I wish we had more ammo for the guns, but we're missing some key ingredients and manufacturing capability at the moment. Another team is scheduled to head north for the mountains to search for anything there. On the other hand, the reflex bows work pretty well, even against yowlers and imps, and of course spears. Speaking of all that, we picked up some kind of alien device. It's technology but doesn't seem to match the builder's style, and I think it's beyond them. That's my best guess. We're not sure what it does but it has runes on it and it hums with electricity. We're keeping it wrapped up and stowed away for now. Very interesting. It's starting to look like rain tomorrow.

>>14541871
Potatoes are bulbs, you fuckwit. They don't seed.

>>14541864

Okay, let's talk about agriculture.

How are you going to break sod without a plow? How are you going to make a plow? Where will you get metal for it? Where will you get the rope, or rather who other than me knows how to make it? Who will maintain the equipment? How will you water your crops? How will you manage the logistics?

>>14541858

The Ju-Wasi knew about agriculture, but food was abundant enough that they never needed to take it up. I'm too lazy to recall other examples.

>>14541871
>Yeah. You know you can only plant them when they start seeding, right?
Not really. They just need good eyes. I've grown potatoes before, it's seriously not that hard.

>And if you don't think that would be fucking hard work, you can try it without me.
Seems like that's how it'll have to be, since you apparently loathe the concept of working together, but if there's not enough food, you'll be the first to go without.

>>14541872
I actually teach professionally.

>>14541891
Actually I think they must seed. Otherwise why would they have flowers? But you don't plant the seeds.

>>14541891

Seed potatoes. You cut them up and drop them into the rows when they reach a certain point in their growth.

>>14541871

You realize you can plant rooted cuttings in light soil, right?
Without the seeds?

You can also test for optimal soil compositions that way.

Just because you grew up on a farm and know how to tie a knot does not mean you can actually design or run a farm.

Let alone a society.

>>14541900

You don't get it. You'd work your ass off for little to no return, assuming you'd survive. You have to learn before trying agriculture. Hence the box farming.

>>14541916

Light soil... light alien soil with foreign nutrients, is everyone but me fucking forgetting that shit?

>>14541899
>Thinks you need metal for a plow.
>Thinks no one else but him can handle "watering crops" or "maintaining a plow."

CULTURAL TENET:

Persons with obvious delusions of grandeur are not to be trusted!

For everything, evidence must be provided.

(And really, stone plows.)

>>14541899
>How are you going to break sod without a plow?
With one of them adze like things like they use in some parts of Africa, presumably. Those are simple as fuck.
>Where will you get metal for it?
You can do it with stone or wood. The adze, I mean, not the plow. Stone and wood aren't as durable, but they'll be more durable than the joining anyway.
>Where will you get the rope, or rather who other than me knows how to make it?
I know how to make it. It's not even hard, it just takes a long time.
>Who will maintain the equipment?
Whoever? If nobody else does then I'll do it myself.
>How will you water your crops?
We get plenty of rain.
>How will you manage the logistics?
What logistics, exactly?

>>14541931
Potatoes might not grow; we should run tests. But if the nutrients were too alien, we couldn't survive on anything/

>>14541931

You. Test. Different. Soil. Compositions.

They're not 'magically alien,' since humans can obviously survive there.

You just, with basic agricultural knowledge, test different soil compositions. (pH, clay, moisture.)

It's even easier because wherever you found the plant, that's where it's apt to grow.

>>14541915
I don't know what fancy bullshit you're talking about, but I can tell you right now, the way you grow a potato doesn't need no rows. You cut them so the eyes are separate and put them in the ground, three or four inches deep.
You don't even have to cut them, you could just stick potatoes in the dirt, but that's less efficient.

>>14541944

You have to transport the water across the field. Probably by buckets. You have to water all of it. Regularly.

>>14541947

1. The western United States were unsettled for so long because wooden plows didn't cut it. That shit's hard to break.

2. Any crude equipment would break down frequently, requiring time and man hours to repair.

3. Rain is unreliable for watering crops. It doesn't work that way.

>>14541928
I put some potatoes in the dirt. Not that much work. I get about five times as much potatoes back, discounting what goes back in to give me twice the crop next year.
Seems like an okay deal to me.

>>14541960

Great. Bring a testing kit. That would be useful. We would have to mass test lots of things, but that'd be useful, yes.

>>14541964

You put them in rows to keep the roots in order and make it easier to manage.

AND /TG/ HAS MET IT'S FIRST SOCIETAL DIFFICULTY:

How do you handle militant dissidents who quite clearly have no idea what they're saying?

They haven't garnered many followers in this thread, and 4chan goers are probably somewhat immune to the casual warlord...

But what happens when Na'vi enthusiasts show up?

Or try to sabotage your farms because they don't like technology?

>>14541931
Listen, we have to assume some shit will work. If nothing at all works and everything there is poisonous to everything form here, we'll just die and there's no point in discussing it.
Thus we assume that the alien shit works fine for us. That's alien soil, alien plants, and alien meat, all digestible to earth life forms(barring poisons or other specific adaptations).

How should we handle people who can't contribute? I'm a high school chemistry teacher, out of shape, and useless in a combat situation. What could I possibly do to help you? Why shouldn't I be cast out?

>>14541931
whoa~! back it down a bit. Relax, mellow.. it is all in good fun.


And i would think that a planet whose makeup was so totally different in its plantlife and chemical/micronutrient levels would simply be a death sentence. If the soil rejects everything from earth1, i would think that odds are good we would find everything poisonous or simply non-nutritious.


>>14541971

1: then lets avoid trying to live in the middle of the Great Plains.
2: Everything requires time to repair. All one can do it try to make things the best they can as we attempt to race back up the technology foodchain.

3: right. This is why no one ever had any type of farming until modern watering pumps and systems were built. No one gathered any crops until combine-harvesters were built either. Things were rough back in the day.

>>14541987

Why do you think the agricultural persons among us need a "testing kit"?
That's just a tool. They didn't have those a few hundred years ago, and did fine planting crops.

Corn isn't native to Europe.
How did the Europeans into corn?

>>14541971

Spoilers:
You don't need to irrigate crops.

And fucking shadufs, how do they work?!

>>14541991

No one here is a luddite. I wouldn't need to sabotage a farm or do anything overtly hostile: most of the people in this thread would die on their own, no help needed.

Having followers in a thread does not indicate correctness. This is a typical internet argument: there is no real measure of credibility except the consensus of people posting. If this actually happened I know I'd be just fine, and so would anyone who followed me or was worth their salt. Everyone who would sit around insisting that they knew how to farm an alien world in spite of the history of agricultural development and lack of experience would starve.

>>14541971
>You have to transport the water across the field. Probably by buckets. You have to water all of it. Regularly.
Unless you get lots of rain. Since we're apparently using the Lenore map for this, /tg/'s land gets lots of rain.
Even were that not the case, carrying water isn't that huge of a deal. It's what you do during the day, and it's work, but it's well within our capacity to do.

>1. The western United States were unsettled for so long because wooden plows didn't cut it. That shit's hard to break.
No, they were unsettled because going west was a hassle, and there was plenty of room closer east. Once the railroad was built, everything near it was settled quick.

>2. Any crude equipment would break down frequently, requiring time and man hours to repair.
Yep, that's true. Better equipment would be better to have.

>3. Rain is unreliable for watering crops. It doesn't work that way.
Depends on climate, see above.

>>14541998
Now, are you a chemistry teacher as in you know chemistry? Or chemistry teacher as in you hand out dittos and sleep at your desk? If you know chemistry, you bet your ass we'll need that knowledge. If not, well you can farm or clean up the living space or hunt for water, just as long as you're contributing in some way.

>>14541991
>How do you handle militant dissidents who quite clearly have no idea what they're saying?
In practice what do we do? We argue, all day every day.
What should we do, not worry about it.
But actually I suspect were this to happen in a non-internet setting, things would work out just fine. If folks were arguing I'd get them past that.

>>14541991
>But what happens when Na'vi enthusiasts show up?
Nothing. Bad taste is sad, but not worth action.
>Or try to sabotage your farms because they don't like technology?
We drive them off, or kill them if necessary.

>>14542022
Masters in Biochem

>>14542016

Except your argument is: "No farming."

Everyone else's argument is: "Start on farming while hunting."

Based upon human history, the majority argument seems to be the correct one.

Migratory societies have a much higher mortality rate, small population support, and insular cultures.

>>14541964

>>cut them so the eyes are separate and put them in the ground
this is called seeding
>>doesn't need no rows
rows are more efficient

Anyway it doesnt matter. Some of us understand subsistence farming and have more experience with it than others. Thats the whole point of a large group and division of labor: varied skill sets.

Also, everyone agrees we need hunters, gatherers, farmers, builders, teachers, scholars, and a hundred different roles filled. Why are we still arguing this? If we cant even cooperate without reducing to "Im right, youre wrong" on a theoretical exercise, we are well and truly fucked once we add the stress, fear, lack of organization, and sheer work of the situation. Cant we all just get along?

People are social animals, in a crisis like this scenario most of them would follow a few leaders. The real issue would be preventing the leaders from factionalizing the population. At the first sign of that, we'd need to kill the least-rational leader with a staged accident and get their followers back under control.

>>14542030
And wow, try to set up water distilleries on the move. It's just not a good way to live, especially when you have the manpower not to do it.

>>14542030

You have the chicken and the egg backwards: they didn't need to start farming until their population outgrew their food supply. Mortality rate was actually lower until recently: disease happens. Or you can ignore thousands of years and more of history, it's cool.

My argument is to start on understanding farming and how to go about it before any major undertaking while relying on hunting and gathering, or did you actually read over it?

>>14542033

It's a matter of degrees: some would want to focus on farming, I'd want to slow up on that and focus on hunting and gathering. That's the only real variation.

>>14542037

Then we find out who's an internet tough guy and who can actually defend themselves. That won't end well for anyone, not even the winners.

>>14542040

Isn't it that aqueducts are the only real source of water.

>>14542033

Unfortunately, not everyone believes that. That's the problem.

There has been some argument for a migratory hunter/gatherer society. (Abandoning construction and the like.)

The majority pretty much follows your post, but there seems to be at least one dissident.
Which poses one of the fist social problems!

>>14542059
If it IS (which would be a fucking silly setting) that's even more cause for agriculture and stationary living. Irrigation from an aqueduct is really easy.

Journal Log: Day 49.
We met up with the salt team today. They had some real stories to tell. They apparently were successful with the salt, and cataloged several new fish and plant types. We split our supplies during lunch, and started escorting them back. It'll take a few extra days with the slower carts. More exciting, we killed one of those huge flying things. It came down out of nowhere for an attack run. One of the hunters spent the last of his AK ammo on it, and in the end we had to spear it to death after grounding it. The "biologist" is currently cutting it apart to see if there's anything we can use from it. He seems to think the skin can be used for leather, which is a nice change compared to everything else we've seen so far. God it smells terrible. I wonder if it's edible.

>>14541998
Anyone can work. If you can't come up with something to do on your own, then do what you're told.
>>14542037
Everyone wants to work together, so factionalism will at worst be a fairly minor problem. Furthermore, as someone whom folks naturally listen to, I'd keep things working okay. Whoever wants leadership and has some charisma and basic competence will be the leader, and I'll keep disagreements from becoming problems. Everybody's used to consensus and democracy, so it should be relatively simple.
>>14542042
The impetus for past developments in agriculture is not actually relevant. They found another solution because they had to. We have both solutions available to us from the start, at least in the sense that we understand both.

>>14542069

Migratory means look for food here, then over there, then over there. We can have a semipermanent main camp where we intend to eventually settle.

And as I said, fighting wouldn't help. If we had problems, I'd just walk before it came to that.

>>14542042
i don't think that anyone is claiming that the best plan is to dedicate everyone's labor, 16 hours a day and breaking backs to cultivate vast random plots of land with no forethought. You seem to be arguing from this absolutionist view ("fuck farming! hunting/gathering forever is just fine!"), which makes your statements seem erratic.

>>14542042
People invent thing to suit their needs. We wouldn't 'need' to farm, but farming takes less manhours than hunting. With the extra manhours, we would be able to begin catching up. The main thing I'm worried about concerning potatoes is the day/night cycle. 16 hour days might fuck them up

>>14542059
Generally, the person whose arguing to leave people behind and abandon technology doesn't win. People don't like him.

>>14542090

It is relevant: it means we could subsist without agriculture for a time while we get our bearings and figure that out. When we figure it out I'm for converting over, but we need to survive until then.

>>14542037
Oh and also
>At the first sign of that, we'd need to kill the least-rational leader with a staged accident
No. Killing causes war. Staged accidents are identifiable as such.
Besides, who would decide when a person needs to die? The other person in a leadership position would be my first thought there. It's just not a valid way to run shit.

>>14542116
I agree

>>14542116
>it means we could subsist without agriculture for a time
Aye, we could. Or most of us could at least. We'd have to until the first crop came in.

>while we get our bearings and figure that out. When we figure it out I'm for converting over, but we need to survive until then.
Figure what out, exactly?

>>14542143
I assume he means figure out what is worth growing.

>>14542116

A new society will HAVE to subsist without agriculture for at least the first year.

That's not the issue.

The issue is that agriculture must be started upon immediately, as it takes time to catalog plants, condition soil, grow and breed plants.

It will need to be started small, of course, but finding food crops should not be difficult with so many people.

>>14542108

No one is advocating abondoning tech. I am advocating holding off on it until we know enough not to be thrashing around blindly.

>>14542097

>I don't think that anyone is claiming that the best plan is to dedicate everyone's labor, 16 hours a day and breaking backs to cultivate vast random plots of land with no forethought.

See the post in >>14541661

He claims we grow the first edible thing we can find in vast amounts. That would be a waste of time and energy, and likely get people killed.

>>14542154
THISTHISTHISTHIS.

The majority argument is: Set up camp. Start hunting nearby area. Find foodcrop. Begin planting.

I'm not sure what the argument against that is. "All hunting all the time until I decide not"?

>>14542169

The argument is: "No mass planting until we can figure out a coherent plan about how we should go about it." We can't have that until we have more info.

>>14542156
>You start small, or you don't start at all. (At least in farming.)

it seems you are reading things in that post that i cannot see.


Anyhow, more in line with the op, once we get past the "farm-now vs farm-some-other-time" debate, what Is the tg culture?

>>14542156
>You don't fucking go FULL FARM on day one.
>You start small, or you don't start at all.
He is saying the exact opposite of that. Not "in vast amounts", but "start small". Do you not understand how "a little" and "all" are not the same thing?

>>14542156

>>14541661
>start test plots.
>You start small
>You don't fucking go FULL FARM on day one.

No, that isn't what he said at all. His post is actually intelligent, while yours has patently no credibility.

>>14542169
>>14542177
I think we should make a very small plot of everything edible as we find it. By the time it's mature, we'll know enough.

>>14542177
The argument which you've been espousing is "no farming at all"
The argument others are espousing is "we should plant a potato patch or something to get started".

>>14542119

Staged accidents are only identifiable as such if you fuck up the staging part.

>>14542186
>>14542184
>>14542178
Based on this I think we can finally conclude that Mwu is just trolling.

>>14542186
>>14542184
>>14542178

>First edible thing

Edible=/=nutritious or growable in large enough quantities.

That said, this is precisely why we would have to splinter.

>>14542201
Which will invariably be fucked up. Also: Ape never kills Ape!

>>14542177
>>14542156

CULTURAL TENET:

Just because someone argues something fervently and with emotional flare does not mean it is at all correct.

(Or as any reading comprehension whatsoever.)

>>14542201
Nah. Even if it goes off seamlessly, people can go "These people were disagreeing, and now are buddy is dead. Something ain't right here". Even if nobody can prove it, everybody will know.

>>14542199

Read my first post on the matter.

>>14542201

You'd be the among the first casualties. This is why I would I leave early.

>>14542206

I am trolling now to a degree, but not in the way you are thinking.

>>14542210
>Edible=/=nutritious
No, but having something to eat is better than nothing.
>or growable in large enough quantities.
We aren't trying for large quantities. A patch will be fine.

>>14542228
>I am trolling now
Good run.

>>14542210
>Advocating splintering the society.
>Based upon the definition of the word "edible."

No.

>>14542241

Only the people who are silly enough not to see reason and are pretending to know history. And the guy who keeps advocating murder.

That said, I'd roll with the hunter gatherers and given my skills I'd step up to lead a band. Partly to avoid the murderous fucks looking to run a dictatorship back home and partly because even if we fuck up by over investing in agriculture at least I would eat and get to take care of my own men.

What should our policies be?

>>14542260

I don't advocate it at all: we'd be best served by staying together. The splinter would happen eventually though.

I am so happy this thread survived through the night!

Any carpenters on /tg/?

>>14542270
That's too bad. I'd be sad to see you leave.

>>14542272

I'm an IR/Econ major. Laws probably wouldn't need to be complex for a while, and we all not what constitutes okay behavior, or should anyway.

Do you mean toward the other groups? That I can do.

>>14542270
>Only the people who are silly enough not to see reason and are pretending to know history.
>Only the people who disagree with me

>And the guy who keeps advocating murder.
Yeah that guy's a fucktard.

>That said, I'd roll with the hunter gatherers and given my skills I'd step up to lead a band.
Damn near everyone says this. But not everyone can lead a band.

>>14542272
no weapons in BarterTown

>>14542294

I have a lot of tradesmen in my family, but I only know common sense things like the fact that you can't hammer a nail through a knot etc etc. I can use tools though.

>>14542298
I'm pretty sure it will be a band in the sense that we've discussed before: One that roves about hunting and gathering, but still returns to base camp often enough, exchanging food for gear.

All of this arguing screwed up my writefagging. Now I'm just not in the mood.

As a note, what was done according to the journals I wrote, hunting and gathering soon as MRE/prepackaged foods/canned supplies got low (first week), farming was done a week or two later when some people started experimenting with plants brought back by the hunter/gather teams and then test growing in a small clearing that was worked on. There was no all one way or all the other.

>>14542302
Genoese Mercantile Police Squadron? I volunteer.

>>14542298

I would be sad to leave, but it'd be safest for me: I'm a dissident and we have people who want to kill off dissidents.

>>14542300

I'd do my damndest, and I'd step down if I wasn't up to it at the time. Then I'd go into learning mode.

>>14542302

Good rule.

>>14542302
The wildlife is hostile enough to make that a stupid proposition.
But murder and assault should be illegal, same as anywhere else.

>>14542294
In what sense? I can build buildings with milled lumber and nails, but I haven't a clue about furniture, and I don't know how to build a lumber mill or get nails, so I doubt that skill would be super useful.

>>14542270

You seem to think that starting agriculture at all is an "over-investment."

Human history states that to support a large population, a society needs agriculture. It does not matter how or why it was FIRST developed.

But no, you will lead nothing. We do not require your basic hunting skills, there are many people who have them.

We do not need someone to sow pointless dissent and attempt to split the society into personal warbands.

You are why Africa is unstable still, in the modern era.

>>14542315

Your writefagging is really good, and you shouldn't get discouraged. We're just arguing fine points and obscure shit, we really do agree on the big things.

>>14542299
Other groups and their exiles, policies about people who are too injured to work, women, children, who does what and compensation, who leads and what orders can they give. etc etc

>>14542346

I think anything beyond a bit of box farming is too much at first until we catalog data.

And sure, my basic survival skills, rope and other commodity making skills, and general knowledge wouldn't be needed at all. Everyone can do that, sure.

>>14542357

Too much policy in the beginning would lead to the splintering.

That said, I think we'd work to take care of our injured and sick due to the size of our community and our fear of the alien landscape.

>>14542357
All will do what they can. Even someone disabled in body can still provide scribe work. FOR THE GREATER GOOD.

>>14542371
No one is suggesting we do anything more than that.

>>14542357
Treat other groups and exiles well enough, welcome them to join us if we've got the resources, treat them well and politely if we don't. Unless they make war, in which case we kill the warriors and assimilate the noncombatants forcibly.
If people can't work, we help them if we can. Women are people same as men, they do the same duties except when heavily pregnant. People do what they're good at, the compensation is they benefit from everyone's work, and everyone benefits from theirs.
Nobody leads. Choices are made by athenian-style democracy, with folks talking it out and getting as close to a consensus as possible.
In other words, we work together and do what folks naturally do in isolated groups.

>>14542391

They are, or at least one is/was.

>>14542371
We're not really sure why you think "box farming" is different from what we've said.

A division of people who are not hunting must be apportioned to first begin agricultural testing (test plots can be in the ground or in a box), then to begin planting true plots of increasing size once useful crops are found.

No one has really been arguing anything different, save for you.

Migration is not optimal. All of this can and must be done in place. Preferably by a river.

>>14542371
You're commodity making comes with your prima-donna attitude. I mean everyone on /tg/ puts up with 'that guy' but just that it will be you.

>>14542413

I advocate Eskimo style leadership: no one is in charge, but some are more persuasive than others, but they don't have any official power.

As a /seagull/, I'd like to chip in a few ideas for this 4chan planet thing! We would probably be extremely matriarchal, and live around the same areas as /fa/ or /fit/ would be. Because cosplayers and lolitas sew and craft a lot to make costumes, props, jewelry, ect., /cgl/ would probably mostly become craftsmen and tailors. We would probably have a shitton of backstabbing drama and politics going on behind the scenes though, ugh.

>>14542371
Box farming is a poor choice. Instead of making a box, you can put your plants in actual ground. Same effect, no need to involve carpentry. Patches should be of pretty much similar size, though.

>>14542420
>Migration is not optimal.
Well, to some extent it is. Hunting should happen in trips. Though they are unlikely to need to last longer than a week.

>>14542413

We should have persons, Scouts, able to determine the psychological stability of any outgroups.

There have been tales of raiding groups partially integrating with a society, only to loot and pillage and leave for the next.

>>14542420

Not really. A handful have argued pursuing agriculture as a staple as opposed to as an experiment. I prefer experiment.

>>14542426

Actually, it comes with realizing how fucked we would be because so few people have such vital skills. Anything I say that is dissenting is drawn from that awareness.

>>14542429
Aye, that's pretty much the same as what I meant. The normal default power structure.

As an outside party that has yet to say anything in this thread, but has been following it since the middle of the last incarnation...

Take a moment and think about what you're all arguing about. From my views, you're all saying one thing.

Hunt/Gather. While doing so, catalog the plantlife you encounter and test the nutritional use/potential poisons.

The big difference is between "Do we start testing how to plant these potential plants right away?" or not. Which.... even with that, you seem to mostly think "Small gardens" is a good first start.

You're arguing to argue, I think.

>>14542452
>A handful have argued pursuing agriculture as a staple as opposed to as an experiment.
We start with experiment. Agriculture as a staple is where we'd like to be eventually, though.

>>14542429

You would like that, wouldn't you, Che?

You're clearly not one for providing rational arguments, instead trying to sway people by speaking loudly and with hot-button words.

What information is worth teaching? When do we teach and to whom?

>>14542299
Mwu, what kind of International Relations do you know?

>>14542434

No, because we could set the boxes where we wanted initially and control soil content to a greater degree. That's just while we are experimenting though.

>>14542452

Agriculture IS a staple. And must be pursued with that as an eventual goal.

>>14542447
>We should have persons, Scouts, able to determine the psychological stability of any outgroups.
No, that's a waste of labor, and is patronizing to boot. Enough folks will understand the basics of social interaction that horribly suited groups won't happen. I would say everybody would understand the basics of social interaction, but this is 4chan.

>>14542465
Agreed

>>14542463

Middle East and Asian Studies focus, but my mentor was the guy who trained the deputy director of the CIA: one Dr. Kelly. Big cold war analyst.

>>14542460

Actually, I feel the exact same way about you on the other side. Funny how that goes.

>>14542460
Here now, don't you go getting ad-hominems going. It's a perfectly valid social structure for small groups, and despite his callousness towards people who he feels won't survive, he's not in favor of actual murder, so comparing him to Che is really not valid.

>>14542473

As an eventual goal, but not immediately. Down the road.

EVERYONE: this is who I'm arguing against. This agriculture now mindset. Right here. Pointing at him. Unless I'm just misunderstanding, but if I am you can see why from that statement.

>>14542484
Anything more applicable to interboard relations?

>>14542463
>What information is worth teaching?
Information related to whatever we're getting done at the moment.
>When do we teach and to whom?
When people need that practical info to get shit done, and to whoever needs to use it.

>>14542498

It's a general degree in tandem with specific cultures studied. If they have a nation I can play diplomat and plot policy.

SEE HERE.

Mwu is the classic psychologically unstable "charismatic leader."
He would, as clearly stated by him, love nothing more than insular warbands with no democratic rule.

He wants there to be no farming, because he fancies himself skilled enough to control the hunters, and thus the food supply.

BEWARE of this, and any others who provide no Evidence.

BEWARE of any who would try to sway you with emotion, rather than Proof!

>>14542465
We can do basically the same in ground, though. We just dig out dirt and use whatever soil composition we want. Sure, plants can send there roots deeper, but they won't if the shallower soil is that much better. and we go deep enough.
Much easier than making wooden boxes.

>>14542493
>Eventual goal.
So you're arguing against someone who is saying something very similar, but more rational?

>>14542508

Not what I said bro. See the logical fallacy here?

While I'm out hunting this fucker and the "accident" guy will be plotting, which is why I'll be out hunting in the first place.

>>14542493
>As an eventual goal, but not immediately. Down the road.
That's what everyone's saying.
>this is who I'm arguing against. This agriculture now mindset. Right here. Pointing at him. Unless I'm just misunderstanding, but if I am you can see why from that statement.
But that is just that we should obtain agriculture as a staple eventually, and should begin working to that goal (with small patches, or even box farming) as quickly as possible. It's the exact same thing as what you're arguing in favor of.

>>14542508
He's providing proof. He's not even trying to hijack the group. He's pretty realistic. We might disagree just a smidge about the earliest implementation of farming, but it's fairly minor.

>>14542517

>Eventual goal.

This is logical, and I have already advocated it.

However, I'm not for bunking down anywhere specific before we need to.

What if we decide to settle in a place that floods regularly? What if we pick a spot that's bad for reasons we don't know yet?

Journal Log: Day 53
I had another one of those dreams; one of the Builders was sitting next to me singing. I have no idea what the fuck this means. Anyways, we're back in town again. The next salt team took off. I'm apparently on the one after this. Sounds exciting and dangerous. From the looks of things, a few more people died while I was away. They turned green and keeled over. No one knows why. The science group has been going over their diets to find a common cause. More rain. The engineers are trying to figure out how to make a drainage system of some sort. Anything is better then nothing. The rainstorms remind me of the hurricanes back home, but much shorter. Maybe that's what drove the Builders out of this region. Either that or the turning green and keeling over disease. Considering all they left behind, we know little to nothing about them. We can't read their writings/runes and I don't suspect we ever will. If we manage to survive and make this work, and our descendents manage to make some sort of modern civilization, maybe they'll be the ones to figure it out. Anyways, they're larping Shadowrun in a few minutes. That should be pretty interesting to watch.

>>14542525

Then I misunderstood you. My bad.

>>14542508
>Mwu is the classic psychologically unstable "charismatic leader."
Not really. As his actual opinion comes out, it appears he was far less wrong than he initially appeared. And he lacks charisma. In fact, his deficiency in the realm of social interaction (and that of others) is what caused this whole misunderstanding.
He is in fact the classic psychologically normal "uncharismatic guy"

>>14542493
Do you understand how agriculture works? You don't start on it after the people know how to do it get old and die.

You need to start SLOWLY but IMMEDIATELY.

SMALL but QUICKLY.

DO TESTS but SOON.

You either fail at reading comprehension, or are being a deliberate and unhelpful troll.
Either way, there's no reason to continue entertaining your proposition.

>>14542529
Haven't thought of that. But if we arrive 200 lbs to a man, how do we carry it?

>>14542544

>mfw I'm the undefeated extemp speaking champ for my state.

You haven't heard me speak yet, that doesn't carry over into writing.

>>14542548

We're advocating the same thing, and it's 4 AM here.

>>14542552

That's a logistics question. Sleds, bearers, carts. Somehow.

>>14542529
>However, I'm not for bunking down anywhere specific before we need to.
We can only carry so much. We need some form of a base camp pretty much immediately.

>What if we decide to settle in a place that floods regularly?
We salvage what we can and move to higher ground. Probably will be within a week's travel, so we'll be able to take what we can carry, then go back for more, so long as we make sure things are secure before we leave. It'll be bad, but we won't have too much to move early on anyway. Even new crops are liable to be transplantable.

>What if we pick a spot that's bad for reasons we don't know yet?
I don't know yet. We'll deal with that when we get there.

But picking a good place to set up isn't that hard. More than a few folks understand the basics of looking at the land and seeing how it is.

>>14542575

Surveying takes time. I agree. So let's take our time while we can.

>>14542544
>MFW he actually does have manic-depressive disorder. Humans, gets them every time.

>>14542581

Yes, yes I do.

I have an exercise bike with a pedal-powered electric display. Is there anything useful we could do with it?

>>14542566
>>mfw I'm the undefeated extemp speaking champ for my state.
That doesn't necessarily apply to less formal situations.
>You haven't heard me speak yet, that doesn't carry over into writing.
This is true. I apologize for judging overall charisma based purely on internet shenanigans.

>That's a logistics question. Sleds, bearers, carts. Somehow.
None of those are viable in wooded or rocky terrain. We're going to need some form of base camp. There's just no way around it.

>>14542566
>"Speaking champ."

Considering that you don't provide any evidence or citations, I don't really believe you.

>>14542590
Charge the mp3 players. Music will help calm everyone down some and give them something to relax to. Other batteries. Pretty much use it till it breaks or hook it up to a series of waterwheels on the aqueduct.

>>14542580
It doesn't take too much time. I can look at some land, and tell you if it'll flood annually or not. Although that might not be the case with alien plants, I don't know. I might have no idea. In that case, there's no way of knowing for sure until it floods.

>>14542590

Yes, but it would likely be damaged quickly and hard to cart.

We could work on something like a baghdad battery or other power source though.

>>14542596

Well, it would depend a lot on terrain. That said, I'm sure we could rig up something.

>>14542605

Believe what you will: identity is meaningless on the internet.

>>14542608

Hence why I advocate giving it some time.

>>14542613
Well, it would depend a lot on terrain.
Our terrain is "hasn't been fucked with by humans". That means you can't see the sky for the plants.

>>14542621

This is true, and I have no immediate suggestions except litters. Thoughts guys?

"Can't see the sky for the plants." I don't follow

>>14542581
>MFW when he blows his load arguing a non-optimal plan to gain 'power' on an internet message board.
Everyone who's aware of his bullshit has probably just left the thread. Unfortunately, that also happens in real life.

>>14542590
We could use the power, but, given how heavy it probably is, you'd be better off just bringing a dynamo, some wire, and a few other parts. We can build a bike out of wood; no need to fill your 200 pounds with things that are more-or-less easily replaced.

>>14542646

Old growth. Possibly jungle. Bad shit for agriculture too: it hasn't been burned and reburned for generations. Tropical soil is shit for agriculture.

Aren't we in hills or something? Mudslides are probably a bigger problem then flooding.

>>14542646
You know how in forests there's lots of trees? And you can't see the sky? well the only places that aren't going to be like that are above the treeline (ie, where nothing grows) on solid rock, and the oceans.

>>14542650

Lol. No one wants power silly. We're debating a hypothetical for fun. Your inability to realize that and ascribing motivations to our posting as though this were irl makes you crazier than me, and I'm manic depressive.

Ah, yes. Sorry, I live in a desert.

>>14542650

Wait... are you agreeing with me?

My bad, it's 4:20 in the morning. Can't sleep though. Unless I wasn't wrong.

>>14542682
It's only 2:20 here and I don't know who that guy's talking about either.

>>14542667
Well, you would certainly make the attempt in real life.
Here you're just out-talking all the people with real viable knowledge to bring to the discussion to twist it for your own pleasure.

That makes you a horrible person.

>>14542689

Nope. I do have viable knowledge, but I'm glad you find me more persuasive than people bullshitting though. Sad that you haven't been persuaded yourself.

>>14542689
Except everyone in this thread agrees pretty much entirely, and are arguing over misunderstandings and tiny differences in timing.

Somehow I feel like we'd end up starting with a fuck ton of weapons and guns, except for maybe one or two guys with a bag of vegetable seeds, his pet chickens, and some weed.

Anyone think about bringing non-perishable foods? Fabric? TOOLS?

>>14542697

That is what I'm bringing. That and things to build other things.

>>14542695

This.

>>14542697
I'm bringing tons of tools.
We're all bringing clothes, which is made of fabric.

>>14542620

Yeah, lying about your credentials for added validity is a shitty tactic.

No matter how you try to gloss it.

Is especially bad if you don't really have any information in an area, but desperately want recognition.

>>14542697
I could steal stuff from work.

>>14542705

Whatever lol. I take it you're one of the people I've been arguing with, and you're mad that I sound more credible.

I may be wrong on a handful of things, but not on the big ones, and my wrongness would be in degrees.

>>14542697
>Anyone think about bringing non-perishable foods? Fabric? TOOLS?

Ramen noodles, hammers, and tarps.

>>14542703
Because a cotton t-shirt and a pair of jeans will definitely hold up during the months it would take to create a stable society able to produce clothing on it's own, you're right. Silly me.

>>14542707
>he doesn't have his own tools!

(disregard this if you are female, in which case not having tools is socially acceptable because females are expected to make men do anything physical)

>>14542722

Hammer and tarps are useful.

What kind of nails? Please not coated: those are a bitch to pull out, and usually you have to bend them off.

>>14542724
Our area is fairly tropical. We don't actually need clothes for much. Besides, all the animals on this world have skins. I'm sure someone on /tg/ knows how to cure leather.

>>14542722
Tarps are damn useful.

>>14542731
He didn't say nails. Just hammers.

>>14542725
I have tools. I meant steal chemicals from work.

>>14542695
Heh, you think that now. Why don't you scroll up. >>14542156

Or maybe he was going for the "initial disagree, then convinced to truth" ploy. Either way, he's a massive faggot who has no information beyond basic survival skills to contribute to the setting.
You're all going to

>>14542734
Tropical places are exactly the place you DO want lots of covering. Unless you have some sort of bug bite fetish, I suppose. And considering a tropical environment is generally very warm, leather won't be a first choice.

>>14542740

I'd assume he'd bring nails as a matter of course, but you are right.

>>14542743

Yay chemicals!

>>14542747
We agreed then too. We just hadn't noticed it yet because we were too busy arguing.

>>14542743

Refining tools would be much more useful.

Filtration apparatus, microscope, that sort of thing.

>>14542734
The problem is all the creatures described this far are thick skinned "like reptiles" or slimy skinned "like amphibians" I'm not sure we can make clothing leather out of that too easy.

Also the thread's been autosaging.

>>14542752
>implying mosquitoes live on this planet
I think we'll be okay.

Besides, bugs can bite through most civilian clothes anyway.

>>14542747

I'm pretty sure you're the paranoid upthread. Think what you want, but I've been consistent in what I'm saying, except on a few minor points like box or no box farming. I'd be okay with straight in the ground I suppose.

>>14542731
Nails? I have none. I have a fuckload of hammers, but no nails.

Good thing I live within 24 hours of a Lowe's.

It's a high school chem lab. I could bring microscopes, surgical masks, rubber gloves, but nothing too useful.

>>14542759

We may have to use thread, and I'm not sure if I can make rope that fine. I'd have to experiment.

>>14542773
yeah, checking my tool box I have a hammer, but only a couple loose brats. I do have an almost full box of screws though.

>>14542773

Kk. If a lot of amateurs will be hammering don't get coated: they'd slow up the work by getting fucked up and being impossible to pull out.

>>14542777

We could improv some nails I suppose. I have some carpenter's tools and a bunch of... coated nails. Fuck.

>>14542767
>Consistent.
Anyone who reads that post...

Can't you see that you're what's wrong with humanity?
That your method of doing things caused hours of fighting that drove all the /sci/ and /k/ people out?

>>14542787

I'm not the one advocating murder of dissidents bro: I am the one for allowing uncooperative idiots to get themselves killed though.

>>14542787
/tg/ always argues for hours. If that argument hadn't happened another would have.

>>14542791

That was one man. One man that you inspired to speak that way.

You are the one who would leave people who disagreed with you to die.

It's all over your posts.

>>14542804
Stop that, you. The argument's over, you can't troll it up again.

>>14542791
That's a bad idea. We will have a limited starting population. The less people die, the better. We do not have the luxury of just "allowing" the death of anyone who doesn't agree. That way leads to a fall below safe breeding levels.

>>14542804

I am, yes, I haven't denied it. I would walk away from any group that was doomed to failure and refused to see reason unless I was given incentive to stay or some kind of hope for change.

I have a shit ton of hand saws and extra blades, a few boxes of nails, hammers, axes and a few machetes. Also have like 7 tarps laying around but they need a good hosing down. I also have a dresser drawer filled with survival knives.

>>14542813

And if a bloc of people drag down another 50 with them when they fuck up and get us killed? I don't know what the best solution would be. I wouldn't walk at the first sign of trouble, but later on I might.

>>14542820

Bring these, definitely.

Should we get a new thread going?

>>14542831
New thread

>>14542820
That's all great. A lot of folks will bring knives but you can never have too many. And the rest is stuff we're liable to have a shortage of.

>>14542812
The argument is over, of course. That's because the rational people have declined to participate further.

You'll get new folk in, I'm sure.
But all the /sci/ and /k/ people are gone.
No one to post schematics for solar stills, or talk about how to refine gunpowder from a bare landscape.

And now I will save this thread as an example of prime faggotry, consign this setting to a future thread, and trot off as well.

>>14542841

/sci/ and /k/ left because it's almost 5 am and this is /tg/ bro.

>>14542841

Anyone that doesn't agree with you is "irrational", yep.

>>14542868
Read your own posts, dude. I have, and its scary that people actually go along with it. You're everything bad about Che Guevara.

>>14542878

Read your posts dude. You're comparing a guy who said he would walk away if tension looked like it was building to the point of violence to a violent revolutionary, and that seems to be your best/only argument. Somehow you still think you are in the right.

>>14542999
See:
>>14541552
>>14542156
>>14541835
>>14541532
>>14542260
Start at the top. It gets really good.

>>14543289
Don't forget: >>14541899
Seems if you feed people enough bullshit, they'll eventually go along with it.

>>14541786
Actually ruined city, and really man if anything is gonna grow its going to be potatoes I mean hell the things can grow in barren ground with a little work