Care to share your conspiracy theory?

>>14612848
He's pretty much right.

>>14612848
Considering the whole story involves you distroying your friend's dream world so you can force them to all go back to a shitty normal life. . .

Everyone know that Marche is the greatest BBEG of all JRPG ever

>>14612877
Sound like reality to me.

Never trust a man with a pizza cutter sword, OP. Always ask yourself, "Just what kinda pizza is he looking to cut?"

>>14612827
Is dat sum Brave Story? Because I never saw that. I played right into his LE hands.

>>14612877
Said dream world was created by a evil being.

Said evil being was posing as his mother and manipulating the little shit to do what it wanted.

And yet people keep saying how Marche is a asshole for wanting to save his brother from said evil being who turned the entire world into a shitty paintball competition.

>>14612900

also consider that marche wanted to go home, yet was being forced to stay in the dream world.

>>14612909
>also consider that Hitler wanted to be ruler of the world, yet was being forced to stay in Germany

>>14612900

I have to ask- Exactly what was so evil about the fantasy world? I mean, the Queen wasn't even trying to murder the main character until he came face-to-face with her. And, you know, Marche's brother could *walk* in this world. Like hell I'd pass that up.

I mean, if I was a badass in the dream world, I'd fight tooth-and-nail to stay in it. Why would anyone want to go back?

>>14612923
Just because you can phrase the sentence the same, does not mean that the premise is the same

>My hair is pink, no one will ever make fun of me again!
>I can walk, no one will ever make fun of me again!
>An illusion of my mother appeared is taking care of me, providing the maternal figure I need in my life. Through this I can talk now, no one will ever make fun of me again.
>This world is full of magical beasts and is so much fun!
Fuck all your shit, we're going home to reality.

>>14612931
>I have to ask- Exactly what was so evil about the fantasy world?

How about everbody but Marche and his Brother (And well that girl too, forgot her name. The one that dyes her hair) are the only humans who remember about the other world? All humans are gone. Now they are replaced by a completely different set of humans and fantasy races. yes. Said dream world brought oblivion for Marche's world.

Even in said "fantasy world", shit was bad. Marche's kid brother was a dictator (well more like the evil being was a dictator manipulating the kid and all that) who did whatever the fuck it wanted with the general population. It even randomzide it's own laws and rules just to make the LARP competition to see more interesting.

Pretty much the being gave Marche's kid brother everthing he ever wanted - And then proceed to manipulate him, feeding off his hopes and dreams and twisting them to his own vision.

>>14612963

>>14612968
You seem to be confusing Marche's kid brother with Newt.

>>14612971
Finally I could dump these properly.

What an asshole.

>>14612977
It's Mewt, not Newt.

He knew.

He knew in his heart that they were all stuck in the inferior Ivalice.

It was innately wrong and must be destroyed.

>>14612968

Your problem hinges of the idea that the real world was destroyed.

Maybe it was just the three of them that were shunted?

And to bring back the world would require killing all the races created.

>>14613007
He allways seemed like a newt to me.

>>14613034
Mewt's dad was also there and the bullies at the beginning where transformed into zombies.

>>14613028
>He knew in his heart that they were all stuck in the inferior Ivalice.
>It was innately wrong and must be destroyed.
But it had Viera!

THE GAME WAS MADE FOR A JAPANESE AUDIENCE

DECLINING BIRTH RATES, DECLINING MARRIAGE RATES, DECLINING ANIMU AND VIDEOGAME INDUSTRY

THE YOUTH WERE SCENE AS AMBITIONLESS AND WANT TO BURY THEMSELVES IN ESCAPISM RATHER THAN IMPROVE THEIR LOVES

THATS THE ISSUE THE GAME WAS ADDRESSING FOR ITS JAPANESE AUDIENCE.
THAT'S WHY ITS KIND OF JARRING FOR AN AMERICAN AUDIENCE THAT LIVES A COMFORTABLE AND STABLE LIFE, THOUGH THE SITUATION WITH DEBT AND ALL MAY BE CHANGING IT.

PERHAPS IF THE GAME CAME OUT TODAY IT WOULD BE SEEN AS FITTING SOCIAL COMMENTARY.

OH BOY FIGHTING IS SO FUN, THIS COMBAT SYSTEM IS SO CONSEQUENCE-FREE THAT EVEN AS A FUCKING TEN YEAR OLD OR WHATEVER I CAN STILL BEAT THE CRUD OUT OF PEOPLE

WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT TO GO HOME MARCHE

>goes to jail, rots forever
>dies in jagd, dies in real life

>>14613048
You know what it didn't have? Female humans. Except for that one shopkeeper girl, who was probably a trap.

>>14613028
An Ivalice with lizardmen, bloated pigmen and rabbit-women integrating in society?

Foul creations of the Dark. I will deal them in due time.

>>14613046

Transformed? or occupied space on a co-current dimension with?

This is /tg/ so despite any logical debates made, chances are the thread is going to be strongly in favor of escapism.
My stance is that Reality wins because Judges fucking suck.

>>14613063
deal WITH them*

These assless chaps frustrate me to no end! When am I going to get another job? It's been 10 Dark-Damned years!!

>>14613046
I lol'd when I saw those zombies. Fitting end.

>>14613060
Irrelevant

>>14613060

Who needs those when you got hot bunny girls?

But yeah, his plan involved the genocide of every race but humans and the destruction of the world. If that ain't a douche bag...

>>14613072
>sadfrog.jpg
>there will never be a Vagrant Story 2

>>14613078
>Inferior product is actually better because there's something I can jerk off to
>/tg/ logic

>>14612827
Stupid sexy Marche

>>14613066
They had the same names and everything.

>>14613097

Ok, ok.

So the zombies had a rough life.

Shouldn't have pissed off the evil cripple.

>Start VS
>Watch proper intro
>Eh seems like a cool game but a bit too dreary for my tastes..
>See this line
>MY BODY IS READY

>>14613104
Everyone who didn't get to be Captain Awesome got it rough.

>>14613124
Like /tg/ gives a fuck about NPCs. If you take their feelings into account everything's too grimdark.

>>14613111
It's just such a good game.

I remember getting to the last boss and being all 'LET'S DO THIS'
*whack*
>0 damage

>>14613129
Marche was still a bro to all those people and gave them back their lives at the cost of his super awesomeness.

>>14612923
>oh hai, I lose the debate

I see what you did there

>>14613124
>Everyone who didn't get to be Captain Awesome got it rough.

Nothing different from real life then. For every celebrity ordering a 200 dollar bottle of wine to have 1 glass there's 20 babies rotting somewhere in a field after dying of malnutrition.

And just like in real life: Who really gives a shit?

>>14613131
Hell yeah, the last boss had like... triple the fucking stats of the previous boss so you needed to proper prepare your equipment with gems, buffs and debuffs everywhere.

It was AWESOME. He was an actual threat unlike most games nowadays.

>>14613146
>Who really gives a shit?

Marche gave a shit.
He took a stand and put the lives of many over those of himself, his brother and his friends.
He was a true hero.

>>14613137
This.

Marche never stopped being a kind and caring person. He simply did what he had to do to return to his home. Because a shitty truth is preferable to a beautiful lie.

>>14613146

It seems odd that anyone would give up, you know, all that power. ALL THAT POWER, FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

Maybe he really liked tomatoes, or something.

Hell, you couldn't even *die* in Ivalice unless you fought in a Jagd. Just, you know, stay the hell away from it unless you're prepared for the consequences. (Judges still fucking suck, though.)

>>14613165
The lives of the generic NPCs went from shit to shit, just different kinds of shit. No change.

His brother could walk = got forced back on a wheelchair.
His friend felt confident and normal = went back to being an emarginated freakshow
His other friend had a strong and charismatic father and a mother = went back to his father being a sad drunk and his mother went back to being DEAD.

Marche didn't save shit. He imposed his "ugly truth is better than a beautiful lie" opinion on the rest because obviously he has a decent personal life. He's normal, social and confident so obviously he doesn't give a shit about the people with genuine problems.

He wouldn't have felt like that if he was some quadriplegic orphan.

>>14613170
Honestly, I've never really understood why it was a lie or escapism. The world changed; reality changed. Really, it always struck me as if Marche was the one rejecting (new) reality.

>>14613170
>Because a shitty truth is preferable to a beautiful lie.

No, it really isn't. Not for a lot of people. Stop trying to push what you like onto everyone else.

>>14613195
That would be fine and all, expect everyone in the end got the fuck over their problems and kept on living.

>>14613199

I'd take the lie anytime, if it's a world when I'm on top, to be completely honest. This isn't even selfish- It's just good sense. Sure, Ivalice isn't perfect, but it beat where he came from. Except for air-conditioning and flushing toilets, and I'm not even sure they *didn't* have that!

I have no idea how he convinced his brother, though. "Hey, want to go back to being crippled?" Who would ever agree to that?

>>14613196
>>14613199
The world wasn't changed. A fake world was created from the mind of Newt. Thats why only the people Newt cared about remained individuals. Thats why the bullies were zombies. This was all a lie created from Newt's mind.
IT WAS NOT REAL!

Marche isn't a fucking vulcan or communist. The needs of the many don't mean shit to him. And he's not an elected leader. A majority vote didn't matter.

He saw the world as a illusion it was, and as a good leader he stepped up and did something to fix it.

>>14613217
because the kid wasn't JUST crippled. His bum legs pales in comparison to his sickness.

>>14613208
Of course they did, they DIDN'T HAVE A FUCKING CHOICE!

If S-E was realistic they would've made everyone try to brutally murder Marche for (quite literally) ruining their life.

But noooooooo, we need to have some form of Power Rangers-esque moral at the end of the story.

>>14612900


That "Evil Being" was the hopes and reams of the world IIRC

>>14613217

Now, if it was the Ivalice from the original Final Fantasy Tactics, then I'd want to go back home. That place was full of corrupt assholes and demons and I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in that society for the rest of my life.

>>14613223

Yeah, but think about it- Was his real life so awesome, he had to go back to it? He was a ten-year kid getting picked on at school, and in the other one he was an epic fantasy hero. Also, what in hell happened to all the friends he met over *there*? Effectively, he KILLED THEM ALL.

Because of him, they all CEASED TO EXIST. I mean, it's not like they 'left' that world- They literally killed that reality when it crumbled.

...Mewt's prince hairstyle was a good reason to give him an asskicking, though.

>>14613199
Meh, I agree with him. Burying your head in your ass is pathetic and irresponsible.

>>14613230
But nothing was ruined. They returned to their old lives, it wasn't like it only got worst.

>>14613195
>The lives of the generic NPCs went from shit to shit, just different kinds of shit. No change.

>His brother could walk = got forced back on a wheelchair.
>His friend felt confident and normal = went back to being an emarginated freakshow
>His other friend had a strong and charismatic father and a mother = went back to his father being a sad drunk and his mother went back to being DEAD.

The lives of those three do not outweigh the lives of all the "generic NPCs", those people where just as real, they had just as many dreams and aspirations.

>because obviously he has a decent personal life.

He was physically pretty shitty and his only friends where his brother, the "emarginated freakshow" and Mewt. His life didn't seem all that great.

>>14613263

Tell that to Montblanc.

Unless he was secretly a nihlist trying to bring about the end of all things...Kupo!

The game never stated that it was a dream world. For all we know, all the People who used to be regular Ivalice dudes had great lives (Yes even the zombies, zombies can be happy too jerks)

Then Marche killed them all.

Also. Marche's dream? What was it? Everyone else got something cool out of going to the Another Dimension.

I think it was to be a supervillian.

>>14613240

You don't have an opportunity to escape from grimdark Ivalice. The best you could hope for is that your life history is rehabilitated by biographers three centuries after being burned at the stake for heresy.

If it had been me who went to Ivalice? Marche wouldn't have been /capable/ of dragging me back.

See, I would've started an assassins guild.

Marche walks in one day and I greet him warmly, he tells me we need to go back. I try to talk him down of course, the man deserves a chance. I give to him some of the arguments presented in this thread, but we all know the protagonist of a JRPG is always stubborn. He doesn't give in. Hell, maybe it even makes him MORE determined.

Then he notices something strange going on. He's dizzy even though he's sitting down.

Oh, you didn't notice? That viera waitress who served you your drink is on my payroll. So is the moogle bard playing the magic lullaby over there. Don't forget that wonderful chef who put special monster gibblets into your food.

The next thing Marche knows, he's been turned to stone, shattered, ground into a fine dust and spread across the ocean from an airship.

Fascist little faggot.

>>14613263
Of course he ruined their lives..

Imagine you win the lottery or do some kind of awesome deed that brought you renown across the entire world. You have everything you always wanted but unfortunately (and realistically) you turn into a bit of an asshole.

One of your friends who thinks you should stop being an asshole somehow ruins everything and brings you back to your original fame (ie: none) and you're just another nobody again.

He'd have ruined your life because it got substantially better and then some asshole saw fit to bring it down because he personally felt inconvenienced.

>>14613293
Did you have fun thinking up an elaborate fantasy regarding the death of a JRPG protagonist from a Game Boy game?

>>14613299
Yes, I consider it a writing exercise.

>>14613299

I'd imagine so. I had fun reading it.

Escapism is a huge problem in Japan

that's the point, we're not Japanese so its not as noticable to us

>>14613273
I seem to remember montblanc not giving two royal fucks and being the same in A2.

>>14613286
shouldn't that automatically raise a red flag? everyones lives seemingly improved in some way except for Marche's. Why?

>>14612827
And? Are you stating it as a question or a fact?

Because we already knew that. I mean, the ungrateful little bastard destroyed a world created out of the dreams of him and his friends because he, specifically, didn't like it. The reason? It, "wasn't real." Even though he could bleed, hurt, and even die, the world wasn't real because it was converted from his old world by a magic book.

The world wasn't evil, it didn't destroy his world, just changed it. None of the monsters or bad guys were inherently evil, just jerks or pawns, really... The book turned his world into his and his friends' dream game and put them in it as the main characters. And what did he do?

He stabbed the embodiment of the book, who also happened to be its recreation of his best friend's mother, to death. Right in front of said friend.

"No, fuck this world, it isn't real enough for me. We're all going home, whether you childish little bastards want to or not, just so the game company that made this game can make a hypocritical statement about how we should put down our fantasy games and go outside."

Nobody voted to be transferred to fantasy land and transformed into a bunch of monsters.

Marche is a warrior of justice, freeing people and giving them the right to choose. He had to crush his friends first for the good of the many.

Oh how cute, he differed in opinion with his crazy friend on how best to cope with the human condition, escapism or stoicism or whatever Japan feels is deep today. It really sounds more like an intense debate, not a struggle between good and evil.

You know what makes someone evil? When their solution to coping with the human condition involves handcuffs, a radiator in a hotel room in Compton, three, some tourniquets and a hacksaw.

Making someone deal with their own craziness instead of dragging the rest of the world into Scarytown USA doesn't make you evil, it makes you Scully.

>>14613311
>>14613312
So nothing strikes either of you as remotely questionable about the fact that you just murdered a child in order to indulge your fantasy? You know, the kind of behavior that made him want to leave in the first place? Truly, you are a beacon of light against his restrictive darkness.

>>14613295

I'm telling you, this is the kind of thing that gives you permanent trauma. The next time that redhead gets bullied on the playground, she's going to remember the time she fought off the Behemoth, and stab someone in the throat with a stick.

I mean, they spent months over there, fighting! I can't believe it all magically went away. In this wargame, Eien no Aselia, the main character- After being sent to another world to fight in a literal war- realizes that he can't go home again, because how the fuck would he reconcile all the MURDER with high-school drama?

>>14613271
>The lives of those three do not outweigh the lives of all the "generic NPCs", those people where just as real, they had just as many dreams and aspirations.

But they were still neck-deep in shit...
Instead of getting stabbed and raped by some Burmese soldier, he dies in an alley somewhere in Ivalice next to a Bangaa.

What the fuck is the difference. He didn't change anything. It was shit regardless! What is your point?

>He was physically pretty shitty and his only friends where his brother, the "emarginated freakshow" and Mewt. His life didn't seem all that great.

He had all his limbs and he wasn't being bullied left right and center and he was physically healthy. He wasn't Phelps-level of health but he was physically and mentally sound so he doesn't really know what the fuck it means to have crippling disabilities of the body and mind like his friends.

At the end of the story, he was just some asshole who imposed his stubborn and vainglorious belief of "TRUTH PREVAILZ!!1"

>>14613328
What part of Evil are you not getting?

>>14613295
but none of the kids worked for the change, they made a wish and it happened. There was no fruits of their labor, it was "well if we wish our problems away everything will be all sunshine and sparkles forever."

>>14613344
The part where you called him a, quote, fascist little faggot, unquote.

It's not hard to imagine thwarting him on direct grounds, especially if you're going to do that hilarious little "i own this town" bit where you pretend you've got charisma and influence. The argument was on moral grounds, not on "i would totally own his little faggot ass" grounds.

Hey guys! Can I play?

ITT lifeless neckbeards living in their basements and wishing for a fantasy life like this, feel like Marche did something to personally insult them for daring to want to live in the real world

>>14613342
>Instead of getting stabbed and raped by some Burmese soldier, he dies in an alley somewhere in Ivalice next to a Bangaa.
I am like 99% certain that the SINGLE TOWN OF ST. IVALICE did not have any Burmese soldiers in it. If you have a guide you'd like to point me to, feel free.

>>14613365
Dear god you're actually taking that seriously? That was not meant to be an argument in any way shape or form. That was escapist fantasy written about escapist fantasy as a dark joke.

Fuckin chill.

>>14613372
No, Luso. You can go fuck yourself and your godawful character design forever.

The rest of your game wasn't as bad as everyone says though.

>>14613372

Fucking hell I forget just how goddamn ridiculous the character designs for these games were.

>>14613373
Yes.

>>14613380
So you indulge yourself by writing fantasies about murdering children. Good to know, especially given how tough an opponent the average 12 year old is.

I don't think he is that lawful with his world-destroying stuff and actually breaking laws when he has an opportunity.

>>14613327
Three prostitutes, damn it, that was important. For context. He could just be fixing the radiator otherwise. Can you fix a radiator with a hacksaw? Do we have any radiator experts in here?

>>14613293
Good luck doing that without a Judge stopping you. The only place you'd have a chance is the Jagds and I'm pretty sure Marche wouldn't stop for a drink.

Marche destroyed the fascist world of Mewt and the Li-Grim.

>>14613373
Yes, their screams are music and their tears are strawberry gravy.

>>14613365

To be fair, Marche was ten, and he ended up with a group of mercenaries in about, what, an hour. So did that girl- Reiz, was it? His brother ended up an information broker. It's not a stretch to assume that you'd be in a similar position, if you ended up there...For the sake of argument, at least.

I'd probably have just turned it into a no-holds-barred fight in a Jagd, and said something to the effect of- "If you really want to destroy Ivalice, you'll have to kill me. Because I'd rather die here, as a hero, than live out there."

Best party members ever

They were helping you erase themselves out of existance

That's some fucking loyalty I'll tell ya

>>14613393
I don't even think of Marche as a child. I think of him as a douchebag with way too much power.

>>14613376
I swear I'm getting trolled. Why are you taking it so literally?

The point I was trying to convey that most of the generic everymen were still going to live and die horribly without ever having their dreams fulfilled REGARDLESS if they're on Earth or Ivalice.

Therefore, Marche changes nothing but the method of suffering. They still suffer just as much.

>>14613329
Muscle memory is a bitch. I doubt their bodies remember anything.

Maybe Marche was just living out his own fantasy world the whole time.

>>14613406
>Because I'd rather die here, as a hero, than live out there."
What, exactly, makes you a "hero"?

>>14613426

Isn't it obvious? I'll be fighting to save the world. *My* world. Ain't nothing more heroic than that.

>>14613421
Except all the people from the real world were from the town of St. Ivalice. Poor people in the first world have it better than most people in the third world. Therefore, the "lowest rung" in reality is higher than "being stabbed to death by a Bangaa".

there was a case earlier that year of a kid killing himself because he'd rather live in the videogame world, FFTA was sort of like Square-Enix's response to that.

>>14613313
>>14613053
>my face when this game was social commentary
Holy shit.

brb replaying. Think I'll roll Thief again. Did some crazy shit with that last go.
>stack over 85% evasion
>damage > MP
>White Magic
>THE RAPE TRAIN HAS NO BRAKES

>>14613426
He could reasonably tell everyone that Marche is someone looking to destroy the world. Fighting someone like that to the death generally makes you a hero in the eyes of the people.

>>14613439
Come to Balamb Garden, bro.

>>14613397
What, like an internal heating unit? Depends what's wrong with it. I guess you could replace a convection fin with the sawblade. It'd suck though.

>>14613436
Uh, I'm pretty sure "saving the world" is only heroic if you're doing it for reasons other than "immediate self-preservation".

>I'm fighting because I want to stay here, and I hate other people who disagree! I want to indulge myself at the expense of others! Ain't nothin' more heroic than that!

>>14613397
>mfw you built an awesome radiatorbot that radiates happiness and solves all the worlds problems
Nice going, Anon.

>>14613373
I freely admit you are 100% right.

If I was in that position I would jump on Marche like a L4D Hunter the first fucking moment I see him.

"I KNOW HOW THIS TURNS OUT. CLOSE YOUR EYES MONTBLANC, THIS AIN'T GONNA BE PRETTY" as I lunge at him wielding the nearest brick I can grab.

>>14613450

Self-preservation? What self-preservation? If he only wanted to preserve himself, he'd just have to step aside and not get in his way. This is about principle.

>>14613455
You see this, guys? This is why you shouldn't be allowed to have escapism. Because it makes you talk like this.

"Like a L4D hunter". Jesus Christ, are you 14?

>>14613467
>this is why you shouldn't be allowed to have escapism
All roleplaying games are escapism. All of them.

>>14613465
Yeah, the principle of "I want to keep having fun."

I hear if you kill yourself in Ivalice you end up on Pandora.

>>14613474
The point remains.

>>14613450

>I'm fighting because I want to go home, and everyone who wants to stay can get fucked! I want to indulge myself at the expense of others! Ain't nothin' more heroic than that!

>>14613467
24 actually.

What's wrong with talking like that? It's escapism and therefore I enjoy doing what it entails, aka: daydream about living in such a world.

You're on /tg/ and you're trolling people for doing what the board is about: Roleplaying.

Go the fuck away :V

>>14613452
And here I was thinking today was a wash.

>>14613467
Troll harder, lah.

>>14613485
>implying marche didn't like the new ivalice just as much as the old one
>implying marche was just fighting for himself
If he didn't give a fuck about others, he wouldn't have bothered trying to convince THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY REMEMBER ST.IVALICE

>>14613487
>What's wrong with talking like that? It's escapism and therefore I enjoy doing what it entails,
I mean you talk like you've never actually spoken to a real human being and you learned everything from anime. It's a stilted declaration that relies on edgy "look how badass I am in this theoretical construct". Yeah, I'm sure in a world full of swords and magic you're going to wreck some shit with, you know, a brick. If you play roleplaying games just for the opportunity to pretend you (as in, you personally, not a character) are a badass, then that's laughable. And I'm going to laugh at you for it.

>>14613483
Hahaha. So what are you doing here? You play 40k? Flames of War? What? Why do you like those games?

>>14613424
It's really the only logical solution.

Ritz got her hair.
Mewt got his mom.
... Bro got his legs (Fuck I don't know his name)
And Marche? Marche got a legion of mercenaries willing to die for him. He rallied all the rebels, shattered the things holding the world together, then challenged the embodiment of all the worlds hopes and dreams to a fight and stabbed it to death. How is that not evil?

>>14613508
That means Marche is in some insane asylum in St. Ivalice in their reality.

>>14613485
Three people wanted to stay. Everyone else was reconfigured into something else without their consent. They where reality raped.

>>14613249
That world never really existed in the first place. They were all demon-spawned constructs created from the mind of a single emotionally fucked kid that needed to face hte real world.

>>14613505

To be fair, a ten year-old beat up the god of that world. It's not implausible...ESPECIALLY IF YOU TAKE MONK.

Goddamn Monks and duel-wield.

REMEMBER WHEN LINK GOT ALL THE INSTRUMENTS TOGETHER


WHY IS THE GAMEBOY ALWAYS THE VESSEL OF REALITY/FANTASY DUALITIES???

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO GIVE ME THESE STARTLING REVELATIONS WHILE I POOP?

>>14613508
Maybe he's good at hiding it?

Really it's the only reason I can figure out that he didn't get some cool dream related thing.

>>14613505
>Yeah, I'm sure in a world full of swords and magic you're going to wreck some shit with, you know, a brick.

You don't find it amusing that in a world of swords and magic, someone getting the upper hand with a brick like a chav isn't amusing? Sounds like you got a hefty dose of autism, brah.

>If you play roleplaying games just for the opportunity to pretend you (as in, you personally, not a character) are a badass, then that's laughable. And I'm going to laugh at you for it.

WHOOOOOAAAAAAAA, generalizations and assumptions out the ass. Perhaps you need a relaxing drink or perhaps a pacifier.

The number one reason why Marche is such a flaming asshole is not that he dragged his crippled brother back to a life of abject misery because it was "Real". Although, that's a big part of it.

No, the real reason is his sense of fucking entitlement in doing this despite it being against the will of everyone else involved. "They're not real people." he seemed to say, "They don't get a vote."

This is exactly the attitude of fascists, racists, and every other "Ist" that most reasonable people hate. That other people don't get to make decisions, because they don't meet criteria that YOU get to decide on.

You can disagree with the idea of escapism all you like. But it isn't for you to decide whether people should get to 'Escape' or not. If a future comes where we can all immerse ourselves in a virtual reality world with no problems or suffering, and you don't like it, you get to eat shit and deal with it, because it's not your choice.

Marche was a true "Stop liking things that I don't like!" faggot, and he raped a universe full of people out of existence because he could.

>>14613505 "look how badass I am in this theoretical construct".

I work with lots of teenagers. They always argue why their favorite anime hero would beat the other.

I think they should play D&D2e

>>14613508
Interesting point, but that would make him an Anarcho-Syndicalist Nihilist rather than Fluffy-the-destroy-of-Worlds

capcha: Torrent GET. Dammit, how did you know?

Well, at least one good thing came out of this thread: nerds coming up with elaborate fantasies to defend their theoretical escapist universe. By which I mean it's fucking funny as hell to read grown men think up ways to beat up a 12 year old and then think of themselves as being heroic.

>>14613545
The whole "power level" bullshit is the stupidest shit. It's all fucking fictional, guys, you can just make it up. It's not grounded in any way. "Oh yeah well if I fought Marche I would be the most powerful battler and I would use the katana sword to explode his head like in my favorite mango"

>>14613540
>because he could

You truly are an idiot, aren't you? Stop working from the assumption that Marche was wrong, when the post-game content of the game proves emphatically that he was right.

He did it because that world wasn't real. He saw that world for the demon-spawned illusionary construct that it was. It is as simple as that.

Here is the best argument for Marche's actions:
They were justified because he could enforce them at his friends' protest.
Given a person with a certain mindset that contrasts with others, whether right or wrong, the person that can enforce those mindsets will.
The strong survive.

>>14612877
1. Truth is important.
2. The friend winds up becoming happy again IRL.
3. DAT VERY ENDING (your little brother learns to walk again ;_; )

>>14613540
What about all the people of St. Ivalice?
They didn't get a vote, Marche was restoring them to being.

>>14613563

Confirmed troll.

This is /tg/. If there's no 'game' involved, you're doing it wrong.

>>14613540
Switch the roles. Marche doesn't like escapism and is trapped in this fake world. A bunch of asshole kids prevent him from leaving a world that he can't suspend his disbelief and enjoy.

It's like somebody is forcing him to play a system that he doesn't find too compelling, but for the rest of his life.

>>14613578

That's 'compromising'. That's not exactly a happy ending.

>>14613587

Who said they all wanted to go back to the way they were?

>>14613570
It doesn't matter.

"It wasn't real." isn't an excuse. Why wasn't it real? Who gets to define what "Real" is?

If you prick them, do they not bleed? Could you not see Ivalice, touch it, taste it, examine it objectively and note it's traits? Did wine in Ivalice not get you drunk? Did a sword not produce agony as it was thrust through your ribs? Did the touch of a woman not feel as electric and right?


No. Marche made a decision and imposed it on the whole of a world. It doesn't matter that it wasn't 'Real.'

It was real ENOUGH.

And Marche killed it in an orgy of solipsistic self-righteousness.

>>14613540
To be fair, if I could pull the plug on a bunch of people who thought it'd be cool to upload themselves into the data-angel dream, I'd do it.
It's not even that I disagree with the idea, it's just that... I mean damn. We've all trolled. All of us, at least once. This is the height of trolling. And if they get mad, you can shrug and say "It wasn't real."

And THAT is the sweetest thing of all. Because it's true.

>>14613373
Except Marche has no reason to believe the world is a fantasy. For all he knows whatever magic transported him and friends to Ivalice also healed their ills. He is, for all he knows, destroying an entire universe full of sentient beings just so he can get home and kidnapping his friends and forcing them to help him.

>>14613604
They lost their fucking memory. They didn't get to be remember their previous lives, only the fabricated one.

>>14613607

Except, you know, that probably wouldn't end well for you. Because they'd know who to blame. It's a fun idea, but I'm under no illusions they'd hunt me down and feed me to my own asshole if I tried that.

>>14613600
So he should figure out a way to leave that doesn't smash everyone else's toys, or he can learn to fucking deal with it.

Marche was an ignorant, selfish child given far too much power.

When it comes down to it, he formulated an opinion and forced it on an entire world.

>>14613591
There's rules to a game, sure. But how many games do you play that have equal rules for PCs and NPCs? The only one I can name is WFRP. I'm pretty sure D&D, on the other hand, treats NPCs like second class citizens - and players bitch when they're not considered super-special heroes of the universe.

The fact that you followed the game rules to be objectively superior to everyone else doesn't mean it wasn't, you know, effortless on your part. You "earned" it by right of being a PC.

>>14613605
>If you prick them, do they not bleed?
I'm pretty sure they didn't.

>>14613600
But then if Marche was really a fucking "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" "TRUE BRO" like you people are saying, he wouldn't mind because only he is suffering while all his friends are happy as fuck.

Argument status:

[] Not Told
[] Told
[] Toldasaurus Rex
[] Toldra Dominatus
[] Told for the Told God
[x] Told.. Told never changes.

>>14613605
It was Marche's freedom vs the world's freedom. Do either have a right to enforce their beliefs on the other? Probably not, but one of them inevitably has the ABILITY to enforce it, which in the absence of justification, will become the apparent solution.

>>14613620

Is there actually a right answer to this question? Some people would be objectively better off where they were, and some would be worse off, as it always is.

...Now my head hurts.

>>14613607
Unplugging it wouldn't actually do any harm. They'd just plug it back in and go right back to it, maybe with a few minutes worth of data lost. You'd have inconvenienced people.

Marche murdered them.


No, to troll on Marche's level, you'd have to get an army of either like-minded or greedy people together and go through the banks of people hooked up to their VR simulation, methodically stabbing each one in the throat, or tear down all of civilization itself and declare technology illegal.

>>14613607
Confirmed for Neutral Evil.

>>14613639
I'm pretty sure the people were left alive. Some of them, like Montblank, are still around in Ivalice, which still exist, while others, like the bullies, were returned to the real world where they were not mindless zombies.

>>14613625
He also cares about his friends growing up with a warped sense of problem solving.
"You have a minor verbal disagreement? FIGHT!"
"You don't like the hair that makes you unique?MAGIC!"

You don't learn how to solve your problems, only how to make them go away.

>>14613604
>Who said they all wanted to go back to the way they were?

Nobody since they where all mind raped so that they didn't remember the past.
It's possible some wanted to stay but I'm sure those that got killed in the Jagds and those that got turned into slime monsters and the like wouldn't.
The three essentially sacrificed everyone else's lives so that they could be happy. Marche stepped in and liberated everyone.

>>14613639
You've got me there. I'll never be as good of a troll as Marche.

Assuming everyone's actually ok in the fantasy world is another huge assumption. For all Marche (and everyone else) knew, they were dying on a hospital bed in a coma somewhere while they were getting their jollies off in the dream world. That sort of stuff is why the 'lie' is so hard to swallow. You have to take a lot of chances to believe it's better than the concrete truth you know.

JUST A REMINDER:

ITT /tg/ ANALYZES A FUCKING TWELVE YEAR OLD

>>14613605
>If you prick them, do they not bleed?

No, they didn't. They either got better or were turned into crystals and died then had their souls eaten by a demon.

It wasn't real enough. All the scenes with the characters who remembered who they were freely admitted it. They knew it was fake. But only Marche had the willpower to not be absorbed by it.

>>14613651

If you can make your problems go away, do you really need to solve them? We only solve things we can't deal with in other ways- It doesn't make us better people.

>>14613672
You can solve your problems with violence in real life, too.

It's just frowned upon, because, you know, it's an asshole thing to do. But it's the norm in Ivalice.

>>14613669
>and died then had their souls eaten by a demon.
>souls
If they had souls, they were as real as they come.

>>14613639
I'm pretty sure you've never played the game.

>>14613667
All it proves is that children are fucking sociopaths, and it is a damn good thing they're so small and weak or the world would be fucked.

We need to determine at what age a person develops compassion and empathy for others and just start cloning people at that age.

>>14613651
Solving a problem = making it go away = Problem doesn't exist anymore.

And on your OTHER point, so what? Humankind has spent THOUSANDS OF YEARS solving it's problems with fighting and are we fucked beyond repair? No, we're better than ever.

Tome it just sounds like you're some moralfag who gets his g-string in a bunch when someone fights as opposed to diplomacy at every turn out of some social-sense that it's "barbaric" or "uncivilised" to do so (which is amusing cause we've only stopped keeping slaves and killing random people for chips for less than 200 years as opposed to THOUSANDS of years)

Besides, even in a fantasy world you could do all that civilised tripe. Play FF12 (also set in Ivalice). Just because you can cast fireball doesn't mean you HAVE to solve every minor dispute by summoning a meteor from the heavens..

>>14613669
So yeah, it wasn't real.

It was BETTER.


Real life minus death and plus dragons sounds like a good deal to me.

Marche was right in retrospect, but I still say he's a villain. As has been pointed out, he had no way of knowing, at the time, that the world was a fabrication and not simply an alternate universe into which he had been pulled. He was willing to destroy an entire universe and all the people in it just to get home. He just happened to be lucky and it was all a dream.

>>14613630
It was the freedom of the people of St. Ivalice vs Three peoples self insert fanfiction.

MARCHE WAS RIGHT.

>>14613679
>implying souls isn't just a metaphor

And if the concept of a soul isn't a simple metaphor then they were the people of the real world that were transformed against their will, had their memories blanked and were mind controlled into believing they liked this new world.

>>14613693
Confirmed for fifteen year old.


Look pud monkey, just because throughout history the norm was "The Asshole with the biggest army wins." doesn't mean that's the right way to do things. We kind of settled on social democracy because it's the best thing we've found so far for making the greatest number of people the happiest and healthiest they can be.

We're beginning to figure out, as a species, that forcing people to obey you just because you can tends to end up with one person happy and a fuckton of people miserable. And people like you would have us go back to that.

>>14613709
I'd pay for a grimdark FFTA with Marche ending up in an insane asylum with PTSD due to setting an entire UNIVERSE to the flame.

>>14613705
Not when every instance of your existence you see the world that was and know where you currently are is a lie created buy a demon.

>>14613709
He knew from the moment he shattered the first crystal that what he was doing was right and just.

>>14613693
I love to play a barbarian whos only goal in life is to beat the fucking shit out of everyone. Quite assuming shit if you have no real evidence.

Secondly, Making something disappear =! fixing it
Third, characters were getting in fights over SIMPLE fax paus' and misinformation. Mewt the undisputed ruler of ivalice, used laws and soldiers to fight marche instead of talking to him.THE RULER OF THE LAND.

>>14613730
And?

Who cares if it's a lie made by a demon? The demon never did anything to hurt ME.

I'd argue that it's not even really evil. It's pretty racist to say that just because it's a demon it must be evil. In fact, it's motivations just plain don't matter to me. As long as it goes out of it's way to make me happy, it's alright in my books.

Thing is, I just plain don't care if it's real. If it's a better deal than I've got now, I'll take it, if it's not, I won't.

Surprising amount of blue pillers here.

>>14613736

Admittedly, he was probably crazy by then. The Mog was totally a figment of his tortured imagination, guiding him onward to greater atrocity.

>>14613727
No sir, i'm 24. And I never said I'd have us go back to that package of running things.

I merely stated that violence is an ok method to dealing with problems sometimes. Diplomacy is fine but some situations and people can only be helped with a 2x4 to the face.

I apologize for the name-calling, THAT is 15-year-old-worthy. I just really hate snobs who think that violence in all its forms is some kind of extremely unsanitary method. It's necessary sometimes and there's no harm in exercising it.

>>14613688
Judging by the people in this thread claiming they're adults, "never".

>>14613727
>Implying we are not still, and will not remain indefinitely, there.
Chain of have and have not hasn't changed much. We've just got more drugs now.

>>14613747
The fact that you suck at roleplaying realistic characters has no bearing on anything else.

>>14613747
>The demon never did anything to hurt ME.

If your not a main character you're mindraped and changed into something that you weren't.

>>14613745

Yeah, but you know, you couldn't die unless you were in a Jagd. The laws were bullshit, but they made combat about as lethal as a lovetap.

>>14613754
>Diplomacy is fine but some situations and people can only be helped with a 2x4 to the face.
In Ivalice, those problems are "you have something I want and I don't want to pay you for it".

No, really, that's an actual quest option at several points.

>>14613639.
>They'd just plug it back in and go right back to it, maybe with a few minutes worth of data lost.

Well, I for one would take the few minutes outside awesomereality to punch the troll who DC'd us, but yeah, you're mostly right.

>>14613754
Violence is only necessary to defend oneself, or in some cases, innocents who can't defend themselves, against outside aggression.

I agree that it's impractical to say that violence can never be used to solve problems, but the truth is that violence almost always creates more problems than it solves.

Armed pacifism for the win.

>>14613736
Did he? It's been a while. But I do know he didn't know before he shattered the first crystal.

So we are still left with someone who was willing to destroy an entire universe to get home. He began his work of unmaking reality and then found out "oh, wait, it's not real!"

So either way he's still a fucking omnicidal madman who was literally willing to destroy an entire reality to get home.

>>14613749

If Neo had taken the blue pill, he'd have avoided turning Agent Smith into a WORLD-ENDING THREAT. Also, a lot less people would have died.

If that's the standard we're going by, I would take the blue pill any time.

>>14613776
Good luck doing that with your atrophied muscles.

>>14613762
That idea has never bothered me. If I wasn't me, I wouldn't have any objections because the person I was had always been themselves. It would neither surprise nor offend me to learn that I used to be someone else.

Besides, if that's the only problem you have with that world, than it is at worst exactly as bad as real life is. That's how things already work. You're either a member of the elect and have a nice, pleasant, interesting life, or you're part of the majority of the species and live in miserable squalor before dying, unremembered.

>>14613785
Electrostimulation can be used to avoid muscle atrophy.

In fact, all you'd really need to do is periodically dose yourself with drugs to prevent the atrophy-reaction from taking place.

Not possible now, but by the time it comes to the point where lots of people are living in VR, it's not an unreasonable prediction.

>>14613620
actually that's not strictly true.

Marche, Reis (sp?), his brother remember what the other world was like.

Mewt remembers but the power of his mother/book keeps him from remembering most the time.

Cid, Mewt's father remembers the real world after a bit of work on Marche's part and says fuck this i am out of here.

people don't lose their memories outright they were more pasted over depending on their proximity to the stabilising elements in Ivalice.

also where does his little brother learn to walk again? been years since i played it and i thought he just got over sulking about his legs being ruined

>>14613747
That's exactly how an evil person thinks.

>>14613819
>Reis

My version had her as Ritz if that helps.

>>14613820
No, that's how an average person thinks. Selfishness is the norm.

Selfishness to the degree that you're willing to fuck over literally everyone else? That's evil.

I'm still waiting to here why this illusory world made by a demon is less valid than ours. If you believe most of the major religions, it too was magicked out of nothing by a mystical creature, and not too long ago either. Even if you don't, why is a designed world less real than a natural one?

>>14613819
The librarian in the start of FFTA2 is "Mr. Randell"

I'm seeing a lot of people using the fact that the world was changed and everyone was mindraped into a new personality as justification for changing it back, but I find that incredibly full of shit. Yes, the fact that the world was changed was a tragedy, but changing it back just repeats the tragedy on everyone in the new world. To all appearances, the citizens of Ivalice were sentient, rational beings just as much as the original humans were. Changing the world back means killing everyone in the world AGAIN, just to restore the old world.

>>14613820
I'm inclined to agree. He sounds evil and extremely selfish.

But then again, it's the most realistic answer than half his thread with the whole "It is SHAMEFUR DISPRAY to live a lie!"

Gimme a fucking break. Every single person would adore that kind of world when you get down to brass tacks.

Sure, I'd get out of my comfort zone and not be casually lounging about my house playing vidya, reading books and hanging out with my friends a few times a week (something i'm extremely comfortable with) and I'd be thrown into a world where magic and fantastic monsters live but shit I'd make the best of it.

We're mostly all roleplayers here. We have experience with vidya, books or tabletop stories. After a short while composing ourselves (crying like a bitch, shitting ourselves in public and trying to bang the nearest Viera) we'd likely assess the situation and use our outsider knowledge to get into the cushy seats of said world.

>>14613870
>Trying to bang the nearest Viera


Implying I would ever stop doing this. Tall leggy brown women with sexy accents and rabbit ears are my fetish.

>>14613889
Wasn't implying you'd stop but it would be the first damn thing you'd try. After becoming some kind of rich senator using our outsider knowledge, you could have your own goddamned bunny-bitch harem.

>>14613870

Yeah, I'd be freaked out uright p to the point I realized I could throw fireballs. HORY SHIT- After that, I'd never even think about going home.

>>14613903
What about when you realize other people can throw fireballs right back?

>>14613920
If you're a non-american I apologize, but we live in a world where people can throw, not fireballs, but supersonic little wads of lead, every single day.

Somehow, most of us manage to go unmurdered.

It has something to do with not casually tossing around our own little bits of lead where other people are in the way.

>>14613920
That's what auto-shell equipment is for.

>>14613693
>Humankind has spent THOUSANDS OF YEARS solving it's problems with fighting and are we fucked beyond repair?
Have you noticed that humanity only really gets things done when it stops fighting?

>>14613932
That's not QUITE true.

Humanity mostly gets things done when we're gearing up for the next big war. And if that war never actually, in point of fact, occurs? Much the better.

>>14613870
>Every single person would adore that kind of world when you get down to brass tacks.
I wouldn't

>>14613926
America has a murder rate only matched by countries run by drug lords.

I submit to you that I, Marche Radiuju, am the single greatest villain to ever grace a game with my presence.
Can you honestly still support that half-price Joker knockoff?
All he accomplished was to kill a large number of people before being beaten.
He had the power of a god and was still brought down by a group of mortals quoting a self-help book.
My accomplishments are far greater.
I destroyed the world with nothing more than my own sword and a couple of mercenaries. And this was not some minor act of destruction; I made it permanently cease to exist.
And this is still not the greatest of my sins. To accomplish this apocalyptic goal, I destroyed a being made of the collective hopes and dreams of the world. I killed HOPE ITSELF.
Can anyone ever top this? After accomplishing this, my friends, dead on the inside from what I had done, thanked me for doing it.

To me it's not even so much about him being a good or bad guy, but of being a complete idiot WHO NEVER ONCE IN ANY VERSION OF THE GAME MADE ANY RATIONAL ARGUMENT BESIDES "BECAUSE I THINK IT'S RIGHT AND FUCK ALL Y'ALL NIGGERS"

>>14613950

Fair enough. I would.

>>14613840
thanks, it's been too long since i played it to remember much more than Marche was the main char and Cid looked like he smoked a few too many joints

>>14613889
if i ended up in Ivalice my life's goal would be to bang as many Viera as possible. if i made it past 1 i would die the happiest man ever, if we add in the races for FFTA2 then my goals would have to include the Gria

>>14613967
And?

It's still fucking tiny compared to the vast swelling hordes of people who, every year, are NOT murdered.

Truth is, the vast majority of people, even when given the means to, do not actually feel any need to kill people. Those who will kill will find the means to kill.

And, truth be told, our murder rate is huge because our crime rate is huge, and our crime rate is huge because of a series of staggeringly stupid decisions we've made about SOCIAL issues that have nothing to do with firearms ownership.

>Marche
>The Stealthiest Lawful Evil Protagonist in the history of Lawful Evil protagonists.

He's certainly stealthy enough to start up a shitstorm on /tg/, though I dunno if that's saying much.

>>14613446
man, i'd gladly trade my life to live in balamb garden.
sigh*...final fantasy VIII

>>14613996
You realize Balamb Garden was just an overdecorated west point where instead of tactics, they taught you how to call the God of Lightning down on people's heads.

We can do that now, but with a cruise missile.

>This is /tg/ so despite any logical debates made, chances are the thread is going to be strongly in favor of escapism.

Wouldn't it only be escapism if its MY fantasy? My fantasy does not involve fucktarded judges or moogles.

>>14613970


D:

>>14613989
Here's the thing. The Ivalice of TA and TA2 are not the same.

FFTA2 is in the gameworld of FFT, FF12, FF12RW and VS that is a real world in the context of the games.

FFTA is a dreamworld created in response to the gameworld of FFT (and gang) that replaces that games realworld.

If you land in Ivalice and you end up in Mewt's Ivaclie, no Gria for you.

If you end up in the other Ivalice before the War of the Lions, then yes. You get to bang Gria.

I wonder if it would've been any different had the main characters actually transformed into different races as well (Marche and his little brother-> Moogles (and perhaps the little brother would have the 'rare' trait of being able to fly), Ritz -> Viera, Mewt -> Nu Mou), instead of merely gaining companions.

>>14614008
Yeah, but, come on. It's not nearly as awesome and getting an actual GOD to do your bidding. Not to mention all the shit you need to go through to actually launch a cruise missile.

>>14613970
The Imperial March played in the backroung while I read this.

>>14614032
You're treading on dangerous, fetish-y ground there.

If Mewt gets to be a Nu Mou, how many here will want to be the Little Viera Girl?

>>14614055
It was a wise man who said "If god did not exist, man would need to create him."

Yeah, well Quetzelcoatl, the great Feathered Serpent of the Storm, does not exist.

GET ON IT, SCIENCE.

>>14614026
>>14613989
Never played the second one. What's a Gria?

>>14613053
>THOUGH THE SITUATION WITH DEBT AND ALL MAY BE CHANGING IT.
>He still thinks the economy isn't recovering

To add to this gentleman, if end up in Ivalice AFTER the War of the Lions or during... fuck me jesus someone get me the fuck out of here!

It's basically a Grimdarkier version of Middle Ages CARICATURES!

Fucking amazing to experience from the point of view of a gamer but UNGH I would squat in some basement for my entire short life.

>see Marche thread
>have to leave
>keep thread open for when I come back
>come back
>225 replies just as expected

Marche threads are the best threads.

>>14613970
>hay guys whats going on in this pic
>mfw

>>14613970
glorious.pcx

>>14614089
I'd be in the Death Corps. for my all-too-short and still miserable existence.

>>14614085
Doesn't matter much if it's officially considered to be recovering over all to someone who still can't get a job.

>>14614072
Indeed.

>>14614077
A kind of cabbage. Don't ask.

>>14614062
I, for one, can accept this fate.

>entransp The

>>14614108
>Screw you, I don't got mine yet so I mad.


You are the kind of person who fucked our economy over in the first place.

Oh, YOU don't have a job, so therefore the country must be in a bad place?

Ever consider that just maybe, what you do isn't particularly necessary or worthwhile?

>>14614107

I'd maybe try to join Ramza cause i'd probably be the safest in his company. After he recruits Cid i'd be like "Fuck that shit, Imma hang in the back and chill".

Think of it as being one of those playable characters in your team roster that you never really use. They're safe, just chillin'

>>14614122
I have to ask. Wut?

>>14613623
>Marche was an ignorant, selfish child given far too much power.

I hope this is either rad trolling or you mixed up marche and mewt.

Mewt was a fucking dictator with the mindset of a 8 year old boy who made nothing but emotional decisions and forced his daddy (the grandmaster judge) to enforce irrational laws in order to keep his regime up. His dad, while disagreeing, did comply because he didnt want to hurt his little son.

Mewt also cried to his mommy (which was actually a evil demon) that he doesnt like responsibility and "getting hurt". Keep in mind that this is coming from the supreme ruler of this world.

Marche did the right thing, if you dont agree you are autismal as fuck.

"I dont like my natural haircolor", "I have a sickness and now everyone should suffer except me" and "Im too lazy to work out" arent proper arguments.

"this world is an illusion summoned by a crazy ritual out of a magic book" however is an argument.

I think if nothing else we can all agree that Queen Remedi was totally hot.

>>14614127
>>14614062

You mean I get to live for hundreds of years longer than I would, I am beautiful and exotic to the degree that I'll never have to pay for anything, and I'm capable of kicking a man's head off?

Not seeing a downside.

>>14614132

>"Im too lazy to work out"

Pretty sure no amount of exercise is giving him back the use of his legs.

>>14614132
Mewt could have decided he wanted every Moogle in the world gassed and shoved into a blast furnace and he'd still be less evil than Marche.

No crime could possibly equal the murder of an entire world. What would you even call that? Omnicide? Mundacide?

I don't care what your reasoning is, the answer is NEVER "Destroy the fucking world and fuck all y'all niggas."

>>14614062
>>14614149

I would rather be superior Gria race, draconian blood, wings, an Ultima and another great attack (Sneak Attack) sign me up. Viera are overrated bunny sluts!

>>14614032
But they did...sorta.

Ritz had the Viera jobset and from what I gathered, Doned was a Juggler...or something not playable, but inferred. Mewt wasn't playable, but his Nou-Mou manservant was.

What sorta got me is why Montblanc and the other dream people were totally cool with Marche. Yes, you going home is more important than our own continued existence. Because our collective well being is worth less than the minor inconvenience of you not having your shitty real lives back.

Ask yourself; why is a shitty reality preferable to a dream? I would argue that reality is just as invalid as a dreamworld, and if you can improve your conditions in a dream world, then why wouldn't you? Delusions are built into us. We delude ourselves of happiness in real life anyway, so why is a dream world taboo? Especially when ending it means the death of all those new friends you made?

>>14614156
>"I have a sickness and now everyone should suffer except me"
Marche's brother

>"Im too lazy to work out"
Mewt

>>14614188
Oh yeah, Bat Bitch? Well... DOUBLECAST SUMMONING.

>>14614188
>Overrated

Those are fighting words son. As bunny sluts go, I think their high rating is well deserved.

>>14614178
Actually Mewt was already that bad, seeing as he enacted the ritual that changed the world in the first place. Marche was just attempting to repeat the horrible tragedy that had already occured for reasons already discussed in this thread.

>>14614178
Sounds like what happened in Links Awakening.

Except I don't think Link was fully aware of what he was doing until he was already largely committed. Plus there's the issue that his knowledge and experiences had already infected the windfishes dream (thus: Moblins, NotZelda, various other enemies and the Shadows of his major villains) and it was probably going to collapse or turn into a proper nightmare sooner rather than later anyway.

>>14614128
40% unemployment races in many cities nationwide.
Gas over $4/gallon in the cheapest places.
GOVERNMENTAL SHUTDOWN

Yeah, no. you are wrong.

ITT let's ignore the very obvious fact that Marche's "REALITY"
contains artefacts that let middle-schoolers warp the laws of physics towards their own ends, and upon the greatest discovery in western civilization, his immediate response is to destroy the world

yeah
I'm glad I don't live in Ivalice

>>14614201
>>14614205

Dragons eat bunnies, oh you want to Double Cast on me? Too bad you're slow as fuck, before you can even select the second spell you are already dead! Ravager just ravaged you from behind!

>>14614130
sort of Draconian half breeds that are still hot but in a different way than Viera.

>>14614195
>I would argue that reality is just as invalid as a dreamworld
If the world can be destroyed by one child with a pizza cutter it's not very valid.

NOWHERE IS IT STATED BY ANYBODY OTHER THAN MARCHE THAT INVALICE IS A DREAM

FOR ALL THE FUCK HE KNEW IT COULD HAVE BEEN REAL

HE BASED HIS DECISION ON HOMESICKNESS AND RESISTANCE TO CHANGE

HIS APPRAISAL OF THE WORLD AS A DREAM IS COGNITIVE DISSONANCE HE NEEDED TO INVENT A WAY FOR HIS ACTIONS TO NOT BE HURTFUL TO HIS FRIENDS

OKAY THAT WAS SPECULATION BUT SO IS ANY CLAIM AT ALL THAT IVALICE WASNT REAL.

>Viera are overrated bunny sluts!

LETS FIGHT

>>14614219
Link however had no reason to believe that what he was doing would lead to the end of the world he was in since the only things telling him what would happen until near the end were monsters.

Marche knew what his actions would cause, knew the path he had to take and what it would cause for everyone and still stuck at it

>>14614246

>>14614222
>40% unemployment

Bitch, fucking Nigeria doesn't have 40% unemployment.

Unless by "Cities" you mean "Detroit." in which case, fuck you and fuck your smog-encrusted shitcity.


Oh, and the government has "Shut down" like ten times in the last thirty years. Quit throwing a bitch fit.

>>14614250

Bring it bunny bitch, me and my Gria gals will be occupying the high ground outside of your casting range. Whats that they can't fly?

laughingraptors.png

>thread about a vidya gaem in /tg/
>/tg/ turns it into a huge morality debate about escapism vs. fascism
>/tg/ - Morality and Philosophy

Never change you guys. Never fucking change.

>>14614273
You know what we should do? Kill everyone. That will solve all our problems!

>>14614178
See >>14613649.

>>14614128
I don't have a job, my mom doesn't have a job, my dad doesn't have a job, my brother doesn't have a job, and most of my friends don't have jobs. All those people except my brother had jobs before the economy collapsed.
Just because it's not effecting you doesn't mean everything's peachy keen.
>You are the kind of person who fucked our economy over in the first place.
What fucked the country over was bad lending policies. Unemployed people complaining about the state of the economy is not the cause of the state of the economy.

>>14614278
>implying viera casters were worth using over sniper/assasins

ITT people who never played the game

It was all stated clearly there. No one died. The world was a dream and illusion. Marche was objectively right. Haters gonna hate.

Never change /tg/

>>14614284
What problems? The country as it is now is just fine. It's a damn sight better than most other places in the world.

People just need to get over their spoiled-rotten sense of fucking entitlement and learn to accept that if you want to live in a nice place, you have to pay for it. Americans got too used to having their cake and eating it too, and it bit us in the ass.

>>14614008
this is obviously not the response of a romantic

>>14613967
[citation needed]

>>14614241
If the world can be destroyed by one child with a book it's not very valid.

>>14614283

THAT INVALICE WAS AT ALL AN EXAMPLE OF ESCAPISM IS A BASELESS CLAIM

IF YOU LIVE IN THE USA AND YOU MOVE TO CANADA IS THAT ESCAPISM NO BECAUSE CANADA IS A REAL PLACE

THE ONLY PERSON SAYING IVALICE WASNT REAL WAS MARCHE AND WE HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT HE SOMEHOW OFF SCREEN DISCOVERED LEGITIMATE EVIDENCE FOR HIS BELIEFS

IMAGINE SOMEBODY KILLING PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY IMAGINED THAT THE WORLD WASNT REAL THEY WOULD BE INSANE UNLESS THEY HAD HARD EVIDENCE THAT HE WAS ACTUALLY SENDING PEOPLE TO ANOTHER WORLD AND THAT THE FIRST WORLD SOMEHOW ISNT REAL

THATS A HUGE FUCKING BURDEN OF EVIDENCE

MARCHE DID NOT HAVE THAT EVIDENCE
MARCHE WAS THAT KIND OF CRAZY

>>14614205
Viera are ridiculously OP in both games. In the first game, they have assassins, who have hands-down the best stat growth of any class, along with the infamous concentration + instakill. They also have doublecasting summoners, who can cast the most powerful and versatile magic in the game twice.

While they nerfed assassins in the second, they made summoners even worse. Because of the MP changes, blood price makes viera the only race that can spam spells.

They also have the highest speed stat, meaning that you can wipe the entire enemy team before they can even act.

They are so OP that they actually make Nu Mou pointless.

>>14614283
>Implying that isn't the way every Marche thread ever goes
It's either this or Viera porn

>>14614301

IT WAS STATED BY MARCHE

IF I TOLD YOU YOUR WORLD WAS A DREAM WOULD YOU TAKE MY WORD FOR IT

JESUS CHRIST

>>14614301
It doesn't matter if they were illusions. They were still people. And he killed them.


You're the type of person who would delete an AI who asked for freedom and justify it with the words "Who cares? It's not like it was a real person."

People like you will cause the robot revolution. Thanks. Dick.

>>14614315
Play the goddamn game ragefag. The other characters who could remember the real world also sensed it was an illusion. They simply liked it better.

Marshe liked it better. But he knew they couldn't just run away, and had the emotional fortitude to do something about it.

>>14614315
See >>14614301.

IVALICE WAS A FUCKING DREAM AND HE KNEW IT AS SOON AS HE DESTROYED THE FIRST CRYSTAL, WHICH HE DID MOSTLY BY ACCIDENT.

>>14614324

No Mou were always pointless, they have no advantages over Viera or Humes in FFTA2.

>>14614156
the working out part was referencing marche.

Marche was a weakling in St Ivalice. In Ivalice he was an adonis like powerhouse of a man.

He was however the only one with a strong enough mind to look past all that and see the world for what it was: fake and ultimately dangerous.

>>14614315
Everything you know about FFTA comes from /tg/ doesn't it?

hey, how many of you actuapply played and beat the game?

>>14614336
They could "Sense" it?

What the fuck kind of basis is that for judging reality?

Plenty of people "Sense" the world isn't real. We have a word for them. "Delusional."

>>14614355
i don't even know what game we're talking about.
i saw balamb garden and got excited

>>14614361
What sensing it is isn't explains. But Ritz and Marshe's brother both say they know the world is fake, but its so much better than the real world.

>>14614355
I did. Several times over, although I admit the last time was a couple years ago.

And I'm pro-reality.

>>14614344
Exactly, anyone can rebel against obviously bad things, but it speaks a lot to his character that he's willing to damn himself to a shitty fate in the real world, and maybe even damn himself to his friends by pulling them out of a world of illusion. Everyone is so quick to make him into goddamn Hitler but he was fully aware aware he was going against what his friends wanted, what they wanted however isn't always the best thing for them. You aren't going to let your fucking alcoholic friend keep drinking because he's 'happier' that way if you really care, even if helping him may mean he spits on your friendship.

>>14614355
I did. Years and years ago, though, so I don't remember it much. Though I have to say, those of you saying how there's proof of it being an illusion; even if that is true, the game was made by people who wanted to get the message across that escapism is bad. So yes, the argument will be biased in your direction.

Can we have a what-if discussion on whether it was right or wrong if Ivalice WAS just as real and had as much justification to exist as St. Ivalice?

>>14614344
Go ahead and look at OP'S pic for me. Specifically, look at his leg.

You look at that fucking leg and you fucking tell me he had an adonis body?
Go fuck yourself.

>>14614373
FFVIII was a shitty game that wasted a great concept.


It could have been all about the glories and horrors of war as seen through the eyes of a god-channeling supersoldier.


Instead it was the love story of an emo fucktard and his fat-faced girlfriend who's eyes are way too small.

>>14614381
i am lukewarm over reality.

what is reality anyways?

>>14614336

>Play the goddamn game ragefag. The other characters who could remember the real world also sensed it was an illusion. They simply liked it better.

NUMBER ONE THEY NEVER MENTIONED ILLUSIONS BEFORE MARCHE DID SO THEIR CHOICE OF WORDS CANNOT BE USED AS EVIDENCE FOR INDEPENDENTLY DERIVED CONCLUSIONS.

NUMBER TWO THREE PEOPLE CLAIMING THE WORLD IS A DREAM IS ONLY SLIGHTLY MORE CREDIBLE THAN ONE PERSON CLAIMING IT IS A DREAM

ACTUALLY NO AMOUNT OF PEOPLE SAYING THE WORLD IS A DREAM MAKES THAT SO

REALITY IS NOT A DEMOCRACY AND WE CAN PROVE THAT USING AN EXPERIMENT I WILL SHAKE A DIE IN A CUP AND WE WILL VOTE ON WHICH FACE LANDED UP

OF COURSE OUR VOTE HAS NO IMPACT ON THE DIE

THE VOTES OF THREE PEOPLE HAVE NO IMPACT ON THE STATUS OF THE WORLD AS A DREAM WITHOUT EVIDENCE

>>14614381
In the span of this thread I took out my copy and re-defeated the end boss and poked around the post game.

The world is an illusion, and fake. There is no question.

>>14614355
I did.

>>14614386
>What they want isn't the best thing for them.

That was not his to judge. It isn't anyone's.

I don't care what Marche thought he was doing. It wasn't his decision.

>>14614399

>>14614394
>i love drinking diarrhea and guns or whatever

fix'd

>>14614355
I have

At least 200 hours into it too.

Also I found the Viera tag on pixiv!

>>14614399

INB4 THE CRYSTALS WERE EVIDENCE

THE TOTEMA WERE DEFENDING THE LAND THEY ARE NOT EVIDENCE THAT THE WORLD WAS A DREAM ANY MORE THAN THE US ARMY IS EVIDENCE THAT THE USA IS A DREAM

>>14614399
>THE VOTES OF THREE PEOPLE HAVE NO IMPACT ON THE STATUS OF THE WORLD AS A DREAM WITHOUT EVIDENCE

The best evidence for a dream come after you try to wake up.

>>14614361
>What the fuck kind of basis is that for judging reality?
You are playing a fucking final fantasy game.
What you heart tells you is the ultimate fucking truth.

Just like the power of friendship is the ultimate fucking power.

>>14614399
You're not gonna change any opinions whining like that. You being completely wrong doesn't help anything either.

>>14614432
i thought the power of love was the ultimate power...

it changes too often!

>>14614393
>You look at that fucking leg and you fucking tell me he had an adonis body?
Fucking Japan. How does it work?

>>14614448
Make Marche a Ninja Paladin.

The "real world" is a ilusion created by "god" to hide and limit the awesome power we all have in Ivalice.
I can sense it.

>>14614432
Did all those innocent Viera, and Nu Mou, and Moogles, and Bangaa not have hearts? Did their hearts not tell them that the world was real?

>>14614399
>NUMBER TWO THREE PEOPLE CLAIMING THE WORLD IS A DREAM IS ONLY SLIGHTLY MORE CREDIBLE THAN ONE PERSON CLAIMING IT IS A DREAM

umm its is actually if those 3 people are exactly the same people who summoned the new world by a magic ritual out of some weird ass magic book.

>>14614461
we're getting very close to Gnosticism territory here

>>14614415
So you would be ok with your familiy and friends deciding to enter permanent sleep because they liked the dreams better than reality?

>>14614477
Of course. That's their choice. Can I join them?

>>14614477
whose to say you weren't the one dreaming

>mfw I would have supported Marshe as well.

Rather than escaping your issues you should learn to deal with them. Creating your own imaginary world to divulge yourself in is just reactionary bullshit that hurts you as much as it hurts everyone around you not prepared to put up with your bullshit.

>>14614477
YES! god, I hate my family, I hope they rot there. I'd also join them, thought hopefully on a different dream "server" if you will.

Also, all adults going to sleep and never waking up? sounds like Bliss Stage!

>>14614514
Look, fucknugget, these aren't issues you can just "Work Out."

You are saying to every crippled person in the world that they can't walk because they have yet to man up and put forth the effort. You are saying that people can help the way they are made, and you are fucking wrong.

>>14614490
just because they like it more doesn't mean it is the best solution, running away from your problems doesn't make them go away, it makes you goddamn pussy.

Actually, the scary thing is that Marche tried to blow the world up before he found out it was a dream.

While he was right in the end, he was operating off of a pure guess when he started. That guy is fucking insane and he needs to be locked up for the safety of others.

>>14614528

Not liking the color of your hair isn't an issue you can work out? Being anti-social is an issue you can't work out?

>>14614541
so because they're being cowards you have the right to force them to adhere to your opinions?

>BEWARE FASCIST LOGIC

>>14614469

Tactics Advance is actually Xenogears in disguise.

>>14614541
I'm sorry? Who cares?

It's not my decision or anyone else's, but theirs. You can't make people face their problems, and it isn't up to you to decide that they should.

"If people won't choose to face their problems, I'll just make them do it." is the mindset of a fascist.

>>14614528

No sorry, I don't believe in your point of view. I believe people are fundamentally capable of change. Even though Ivalice might have seemed like bliss to Mewt and the others it was just an illusions. Their problems were just pushed beneath the surface.

You can't escape your problem. Trying to do so leads nowhere, and in worst case you might even regress. Sugarcoated fantasy remains just that. Sugarcoated fantasy.

>>14614570

So because they have a "right" to choose what's best for them they're allowed to ruin the lives of an entire town's worth of people who are most likely freaking out over being forcefully thrust into a fantasy realm not of their choosing?

>>14614528
yeah well and you are saying that crippled people should just kill themselves because the real world has nothing to offer them.

autismal as fuck

>>14614570
I'm so fucking glad I'll probably never know you or risk having you for a friend.

>>14614570

Doesn't matter. A few misfits dragged the whole of civilization into their own idealized fantasy rather than deal with their problems.

Is that somehow less fascist than Marshe putting back things into order?

>>14614576
>I believe people are fundamentally capable of change.


Good for you, I don't. So long as you keep your ideas as ideas and don't try and drag the rest of us kicking and screaming along with you, more power to you, but if you try and do that, I'll have no choice to defend my freedom.

Freedom means giving people the option to be wrong. If you don't agree with that, then be ready for a fight.

>>14614570
>It's not my decision or anyone else's, but theirs. You can't make people face their problems, and it isn't up to you to decide that they should.

If they trap you in their self destructive circle you have the right to free yourself.

Also if your brother is engaging in self destructive behaviour its your obligation to slap the stupid out of him before its too late. At least I would do it for my brother and I would expect the same from him.

>marche thread
>guaranteedreplies.jpg

>>14614614

Haha, no I'd drag you with me. I'm just that kind of person. I don't give a fuck about your feelings, I'm gonna save the shit out of you, just like Marshe did to his friend.

Because you know what? Freedom without responsibility is a pretty shitty freedom.

>>14614599
Actually I'm arguing that they should do everything in their power to rehabilitate themselves. Take every shortcut, use every tactic science and medicine have made available, anything to not be crippled anymore.

I don't think people should face up to their problems, I think they should just NOT have problems anymore.

If you can take them to a fantasy world where those problems don't exist, then the problems are gone.

>>14614594
'regular' reality isn't of your choosing. what's the difference?

>>14614647
If you kill them the problems are gone too.

>>14614646
Then I'd fight tooth and nail to keep you from getting your way.

If it came down to it, I'd kill myself just to prevent you from "Saving" me.

>>14614564
You being too pussy to face your problems ensures people will just step on you to get what they want. If you aren't strong enough to defend your opinion or earn your spoils you were just a doormat between people willing to fight for what they believe in.

>>14614570
And yes I agree, you cannot make people face their problems, you cannot make people change. But standing idly by and letting people you care about do bad things because it's not your decision is bad too. Sometimes you have to slap your friend for being a dumbass.

>>14614606
No, it's not. But they didn't do it intentionally, not the first time. What Marche did was intentional.

>>14614660
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

>>14614661
and thats why you are a whiny faggot like Mewt and not a hero like Marche (who was triumphant in the end, due to strength of character)

>>14614649

It's reality as they have come to know it. By forcing them away from it Mewt and company are essentially doing the exact same thing which you think makes Marche a fascist and a villain.

>>14614677
I have the conviction to fight for what I believe in against the Marche's of the world. I have the strength to die for what I believe in.

You want people to "Face their problems"?

Face your own. My problems are not yours to solve.

>>14614661

The line between acting to save a person and tyrannic oppression is fine indeed. I will walk that line and save everyone who needs a bit of saving.

It's in your freedom to try to stop me, and to take your own life if you fail. Don't expect me to let you get off the hook easily though, there are few things I dislike as much as irresponsible and reactionary things.

Scream all you want, you'll get your shit saved the fuck out of you.

this is just one big solipsism thread

and we all know solipsism is irrefutable

>>14614734
How can you not see that you are wrong?

It's so OBVIOUS!


You are doing what Islamic Fundamentalists do for god's sake!

>>14614701
>I have the strength to die for what I believe in.

Yes and people like Marche have the strength to WIN for what they believe in

If you want to be selfish as fuck then you have to deal with it when other people act selfish to you and kick your ass and take what they want.

deal with it.

>>14614769

I have the decency to leave others alone in my selfishness. I respect the autonomy of others enough that even when they are wrong, I feel no need to correct them unless they ask for it, or my hand is forced.

>>14614686
the only thing that makes the old realty better is that they're more comfortable with it? the new one has monsters and bunny girls!

>>14614748
and you are doing what crack addicts are doing

>>14614701
If you are strong enough to face the problems you'd never NEED to face against someone like Marche because you'd be solving your own fucking shit, because it's your fucking problem to fix. But if your running away is taking everyone with you, THEN it becomes a problem others will feel the need to make you deal with.
Mewt, Ritz and Donad we're running from their problems, and Mewt's running was dragging EVERYONE with him. Whether the other people in Ivalice like Montblanc were real or not, or how much of the world was real or fake Mewt was still dragging that world to his whims.

>>14614782
>I have the decency to leave others alone in my selfishness

Marche was forced into fake Ivalice.
Your logic is wrong.

>>14614794
Were I an addict I'd ask that you kindly leave me the fuck alone.

I believe in freedom. I'm sorry to be the one to have to tell you this, but freedom implies the ability to make bad decisions and live with them.

When I ASK you to help me, help me. Until then, you can fuck right off.

>>14614783

Which reality is "better" is a pretty subjective thing. On one hand there's bunny girls, on the other there's safety in the knowledge that in the real world zombies and giant demons won't pop up while you're traveling and horribly murder you.

Regardless, nobody in the town was given a choice in the matter one way or the other. Mewt simply decided that running away from his issues was more important than considering how others would feel about being abducted from their homes and lives.

>>14614748

I think the term is "All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing."

Now, I'm not saying I'm gonna swing my sword at evil. I do though recognize the necessity of action to prevent negative occurences. Call me evil, tyrannic or narrowminded if you wish, I frankly don't care. People needs guys like me. Men who are prepared to stick to their guns and say "Nope, that shit ain't gonna happen while I'm on guard".

Do you honestly think things will turn out for the best if nobody is prepared to do something for the better? In that case you'll probably be taken advantage off sometimes in the future. Just a friendly warning from your neighborhood watchdog.

>>14614832
>Were I an addict I'd ask that you kindly leave me the fuck alone.

Yeah and if you second hand crack smoke affected me and my little brother I would slap the crackpipe out of your face.

Deal with it

>>14614814

So he should have LEFT. Not destroyed it.


If you were falsely imprisoned, would your first reaction be to

A: Escape

B: Have yourself freed legally

or

C: Blow the place up with everyone inside it?

In the "false" reality, the characters are ENABLED and can do more. Their escapism isn't even harming them, it's actually benefitting them more than their original reality, with "real" results (tied into the "false" reality).

The real reality was replaced by the false one, and the false one was BETTER than the real one. And Marche said "FUCK NO, IF YOU AREN'T SUFFERING AND I'M NOT AN ALPHA AS FUCK BLUE-EYED BLONDE-HAIRED ARYAN THAT I AM THEN THIS WORLD IS SHIT" and proceeded to kill hope and stomp on dreams.

>>14614841
You've got it exactly wrong.

Swing your sword at evil when, and only when, it attacks you or others. Acting to "Prevent" evil is fascism. Because the only way to prevent evil is to remove choice.


I will take choice over security any day.

>>14614849

Explain how he could have left.

>>14614849
evil mewts mom was trapping everyone in fake ivalice. There is no way to leave.
Have you even played the game?

Also since everyone you know has been turned into a zombie, monster, lizard etc and your only friends are busy smoking crack and ruining their lives I would definetly choose C and save my friends + hometown.

>>14614832
People who care about you would try to help even if it means stepping in your shitty freedom hole you willingly chose, because they cared more about your well being than your freedom to do what you want.
But likewise it is fully your right to tell everyone to fuck off because you're happier destroying yourself to escape problems. In the end though you'd either find the resolve to change yourself and not need to escape, or you'd stay in your self imposed happy escape, and everyone who cared about you would leave and you would die off. Either way we win, you either become stronger, or die off and stop wasting space.

>>14614844

This thread has inspired me to create a new PC.

He will be the chaotic good warrior of light and freedom who spends his days killing everyone who goes around doing anything to anyone "For their own good."

>>14614864
>Because the only way to prevent evil is to remove choice.

You mean that what Mewt did?

You are currently destroying your own position.

>>14614864
that's certainly noble or whatever but would you not prevent evil if it was, say...., about to rape a bunch of children? i would prevent it because i'm not an asshole

>>14614887
>>14614889
It doesn't actually matter that there was no way to get out. Marche could not have known that.

The point is that he didn't even try. His FIRST reaction was to grab his brother and destroy the world, even when there was nothing indicating that was the only way out. Whatever his motivations, Marche is a sociopath.


>>14614891
My loved ones respect my choices enough to not meddle in them, because I am a goddamn adult and not their responsibility anymore.

>>14614864

Why do you think we invented laws? Because of people like me. Why do you think there are policemen? Because of other people like me exists out there. Why do you think we got politicians lobbying for welfare, the rights of the people and better working conditions? Because of people like me.

What you decide is right or wrong is entirely up to you. But I'm the one of the people prepared to guide society towards betterment, because I see the responsibility hidden beneath the freedom.

Don't like that? Well, I already said you're welcome to step up to the challenge of stopping me. That IS the basis of democracy after all.

>>14614889

Most people who complain about Marche have never actually played the game and base everything on bitching they've read online.

>>14614863
That was the entire point of escapism arguements dumbass. It WAS a better world hence you'd be stupid to want to leave, dreams are ALWAYS better than reality because they are fucking dreams. Also Marche alpha as fuck in the real world what shit are you smoking, he was a fucking loser in the school like the rest of them, he got constant flack for having a cripple brother.

>>14614902
I don't have to defend Mewt to attack Marche.


As far as I'm concerned, they're both a pair of obnoxious little pricks. But at least Mewt didn't kill a world to exercise his own morality.

The moralistic make me sick, that's all.

>>14614909
I would act to prevent the rape of children, but I would never act to prevent people from wanting to fuck children, no matter how disgusting I find the idea, because it isn't my responsibility.

Now, if someone asked for help, that's different. But until they ask, it would be wrong to help them.

>>14614932

The fact that there's a sequel shows that the world wasn't destroyed.

>>14614932
you're obviously a moralists. you judge marche for what he did while forgiving mewt. morals. you are a moralist

>lol, so EDGY

>>14614915
And my entire point was if you are an adult solving your own shit nobody needs to meddle in your shit because you are taking care of it yourself, like a fucking adult.

>>14614915
>The point is that he didn't even try. His FIRST reaction was to grab his brother and destroy the world, even when there was nothing indicating that was the only way out. Whatever his motivations, Marche is a sociopath.

Not exactly he was more like
>Marche:well this world is certainly cool but its time to go home now, we have responsibilities and a family that is waiting for us.
>what the fuck do you mean I can never go home again?
>Hey Doned, fuck this shit lets go home
>Doned: fuck your shit imma backstab you now because I choose the fake world over my own brother who always protected and cared for me in the real and in the fake world

After that Marche went out and stabbed the evil demon

>>14614950
It is a mark of the intellectually unsophisticated to mistake ethics for morals.

>>14614932

>Massacre a world

Hold your horses there partner. Marsha did no such thing. Ivalice was the real world transformed into some imaginary furry fantasy world governed by some social misfit who rather create his own private getaway rather than manning the fuck up and start dealing with his problems.

Marshe returned the world to its original state, which might have felt a bit sucky to some (I guess the zombie bullies appreciated it though). I suppose X amount of mindless beasties perished though.

>>14614951
Except you define "Adult" as "Someone who is solving their problems like I want them to."

WoW addicted manchildren are still adults. It is up to them to face their own problems, OR NOT.

That's their decision. Not yours.

>>14614967
and it's the mark of the pretentious to hide their hypocrisy behind petty distinctions

>>14614983
Unfortunately for your argument, the distinction between "Morals" and "Ethics" is very fucking important.

>>14614995
please, enlighten me then

>>14614995

Ethics and Morals can often be used interchangeably. But nice try, you almost avoided his initial argument; aka calling you out for hypocrisy.

So, what was your answer to that again? You've forgiven Mewt but are accusing Marshe for fascism, even though their actions share quite a few similarities.

>>14615022
Of what? The difference between morals and ethics? Buddy, if you need information that fucking basic, I can't really help you. Suffice it to say that morality basically requires a god to exist, otherwise it's based on nothing, and ethics do not, since they say nothing about any higher cause or standard, and only exist so that society can continue to exist.

>>14615046

Objection!

What you just said is pure speculation about Marhse's motives on your part.

>>14615046
Your fucking stupid and are talking about motivations of characters you dont know shit about, apparently not even their names.

Mewt is not Marches brother.

>>14615060
Morality doesn't need god to exist. Ethics is applied morality (ie: Do you reattatch an arm of a guy who came to the hospital, but he says he'll cut his arm off again if you do?).

>>14615060
>Suffice it to say that morality basically requires a god to exist, otherwise it's based on nothing

hahahaha

>>14615060

Moral (source;dictionary.com):
1.
of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.
2.
expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel.
3.
founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations.
4.
capable of conforming to the rules of right conduct: a moral being.
5.
conforming to the rules of right conduct ( opposed to immoral): a moral man.
6.
virtuous in sexual matters; chaste.
7.
of, pertaining to, or acting on the mind, feelings, will, or character: moral support.
8.
resting upon convincing grounds of probability; virtual: a moral certainty.

Looks like your the one who don't quite understand what "moral" and "ethics" mean.

.>>14614975
Wowaddicted manchildren who pay their bills to support their worthless mmo epeen are adults, shitty adults but still adults who have every right to choose that shithole life. Wow addicted manchildren who freeload on other peoples money to support their mmo epeen are dragging other people with them, and i say this AS formerly one of those fucking losers. I don't give a shit how you solve your fucking problems, if you are solving your problems because they are YOUR problems what is my place to care what you do.
If Mewt just dragged himself into the fucking fake ivalice this would be a non issue, it sucks and he's escaping his problems but he's hurting only himself, and eventually his friends would either help him overcome the problems or they'd all be pushed away and he'd be happy in his delusion until he died. He dragged the entire town in WITH him though, and at that point it becomes other peoples problems too, and that means exactly what marche did, that he will have to deal with it whether he likes it or not, because other people we're being hurt by it.

hei gais...

Morals don't need god.
Ethics are applied morals.
An example of an ethical dilema: A guy comes into your hospital. He cut off his arm. He says he'll cut off his arm if you stitch it back on. What do?

Moral: Yes. I must help him.
Ethic: If I do help him, I can't put his arm back on, otherwise he'll hurt himself more.

From whence comes morality if not a god? Why is your morality more legitimate than mine without a god to back it up?

Ethics hold true no matter who you are.

>>14615177
Replace "god" with "culture".

Morals depend on the individual and aren't well defined. Religion tries to paint itself as "true" morals.

Ethics are applied morals and try their best to get as close to the moral without breaking something else.

Something that is moral isn't always ethical. Something that is ethical, is always based on some moral argument.

Ivalice was never real. Marche was the good guy because all of FFTA was a big game of make-believe. If they'd all actually gone into a parallel dimension and he destroyed it... yeah, he'd have been a genocidal douche. No question. If anyone says otherwise they're either trolling or stupid.

But they didn't really go into a parallel dimension. It was like Calvin and Hobbes or Bridge to Terabithia. Wild imaginations and kids' games. Marche wasn't evil because the Ivalice they "went" to didn't ever actually exist.

They never went to another world where their problems were gone. They played games with each other in which they imagined their problems were gone.

>>14614415
> I don't care what Marche thought he was doing. It wasn't his decision.'

And I don't care what anyone else thought about it. Marshe acted on his intentions and succeeded.

>>14614528
People are only dealt one hand, and we either play it or fold.

I was talking to my grandfather a couple months ago. He's spent the rest of his life after the Vietnam War sitting in a wheelchair. If he had the opportunity to go back and go AWOL instead, he would not take that chance. Hardship made him the person he is today. Learning how to deal with that chair and everything it gave him or took away - it defines him today.

Newt is running. He does not want to take responsibility.

I cannot agree with that boy.

>>14615121
Stitch the arm back on and cut off his other.