Hmm. I'm tempted to say that, with the Native American stance on landownership (you don't, and how could you?), land might be considered a matter of the res publica rather than a private person's. (This assumes the Romans accept the idea of shared landownership and integrate that with the idea of the public matter, rather than go LOL NO and hand out Injun lands for their veterans.)

>Antipater temonas
How Roman of you, captcha.

>>15491637
I've serious doubts that they would harmonize their ideals with the Injuns.

I can't see the Romans respecting a people who haven't figured out how to fight real wars yet. West coast native americans were very much this. They were less developed than the aborigines for God's sake, at least the Australian natives had figured out spears.
Then again, it probably won't matter, because of how many goddamn women they're going to need to buy or steal. I don't know how many chicks these guys thought to bring along, but unless they invented co-ed legions while I wasn't looking, they're going to have to pull the whole Sabine Women thing every other day for the first few decades if they want a stable population base.

>>15491637
Two generations after the Romans build their first city, every kid from all the tribes in the area will either have citizenship or be waiting for one.

Wisdom of the land and harmony with the spirits is fine only as long as you don't have an alternative. Romans got so big because most of the conquered populations wanted to be Romans, too.

>>15491664
Jesus, look at those toenails.

>>15491649

Even assuming the entire expedition train was deplaced alongside the legionaries, the Romans will have the short end of the stick when it comes to numbers. What's to be made of that, if not grudging integration of the barbarians?

>>15491681
Oh fucking Jesus now I'm looking at them.

>>15491649
>I've serious doubts that they would harmonize their ideals with the Injuns.

This.

We're talking about a Roman Legion in a climate reminiscent of their home (i.e. not too hot, not too cold). They certainly wouldn't be starving or dying.

They would impose their will upon the Natives. End off.

>>15491637
Decisions decisions. Respect your new allies/auxiliaries' beliefs, or delicious latifundium?

>>15491664
Oh Christ, I hadn't considered the women problem. That's going to be a hassle.

>>15491664
Why does Japan have the urge to cram women into... well, goddamn everything?

>>15491753
If this is the same expedition led by Crassus the elder (Publius being his son, which suggests that Marcus got wasted in Parthia or something and then his idiot son kept running, maybe from Caesar and Pompei, and ended up getting zapped to America by Lo Pan or something) it'd actually be SEVEN legions.

Don't forget the effect of introducing European disease into the Americas fifteen hundred years early.

>>15491768
Similarly, why does Japan have the urge to cram... goddamn everything into women?

>>15491681
...fuck you.

>>15491792
Well, there goes the Bromans' breeding stock. This is starting to look like a catastrophic sausage fest waiting to happen.

>>15491758
I think it would end up like this:

Alright you savages, listen up. We're right, you're wrong. You believe what we believe now.

That thing you always believe in? Turns out it was secretly this thing we believe in.

And a bunch of Indian slowly trying to merge their ancestors stuff with the shiny people's beliefs.

So what we end up with is a clusterfuck of Native American ideas with a Roman veneer.

>>15491681
i....i cannot unsee

>>15491811
>mfw Coyote was just Zeus coming down in animal form to rape delicious squaw

>>15491610
>constructing ships of their own to figure out what is on the other side of that very same ocean.

I don't need to tell you how fucking bad this is for Europe, do I?

/tg/ dismisses the native Americans too easily. When they weren't fighting people with guns, they did pretty damn well. They regularly slapped the Viking's shit if you remember.

You'd probably see a lot of allied tribes from places that suck too much for the Romans to try and seriously conquer them. This would probably result in a lot of the Legion's auxiliary forces being in the native style.
I for one would really like to see the Velites (who we mostly think of these days as wearing wolf-pelts anyway) being replaced over time with tomahawk throwing, knife fighting war painted injuns under various animal motifs. Makes for cool imagery, no?

If they wanted to settle, they would have to kidnap women. Plenty of room for cultural mingling.

>>15491868

That's because Vikings were, by and large, total pussies exaggerated by legend.

>>15491842
>Zeus
I think you mean JUPITER

>>15491868
That's true. But those were East-Coast indians, fighting against what amounted to the crews of boats.

This is a fully formed land army that somehow ended up in West-Coast America. The western injuns did not have a particularly well honed martial tradition. Didn't even have the concept of dedicated melee weapons down, as far as I know.

>>15491880
True, but the Vikings also tended to get their shit slapped regardless of whether or not they came to loot or set up colonies.

As for the Romans, it depends just how many they are. The vikings at least had ships with more food, supplies, weapons, and people to look forward to every time they lost a fight or the natives burned down their shit. This stranded Roman legion will not have that luxury every time someone gets sick, or gets killed in battle, or their equipment breaks.

There's also the problem of food. If this intrepid band of Romans is too large you probably won't find enough food for everyone considering that you can only hunt so much in an area, and agriculture isn't terribly developed in North America on the west coast in 50 BC.

>>15491917
This makes me sad, even though it is probably true. I wonder if the Romans would come to the same conclusion regarding the Flatbow that the Europeans would later. Did you know that while normally pretty shitty, with a bit of competent engineering it turns out that the American Flatbow is actually the most incredibly awesome conventional bow design ever?

This was discovered while the Yanks were busily attempting to live up to their Anglo-Saxon expectation of masturbating furiously to the longbow. They accidentally demonstrated that the Flatbow's cross section was actually superior in every way, if it was engineered by someone who understood geometry instead of a native with a piece of flint.

>>15491929
There is some hope. Southern California is so ridiculously fertile that a scottsman could piss on it and grow hops, and the Pacific is MADE out of fish. If the Romans were to spread out along the coast and rely heavily on fishing for a few years, they might be able to get something resembling agriculture going with corn.

Other problems with less in the way of answers are:

-Women
-Domestic animals (would they be able to breed more horses with their limited stock?)
-Metal (with zero in the way of native exploitation, how the hell would the Romans find and harvest more metal for tools and weapons? )
-Alcohol (The Romans relied so much on fucking vinegar for everything that they'd probably kill themselves if they realized they were going to run out.)

>what is now Los Angeles

Fucking desert. Totally uninhabitable until the 20th century because water: they basically had to pipe in the Colorado River.

Send your dudes to San Francisco instead.

Unless the legion got their shit together -fast-, lots could die.
Remember how important supply lines are to armies. These guys just got absolutely cut from theirs. There's only so much foraging may be able to do if there's a fuckton of Romans.

>>15491983
It seems to me that the shock of the transition would either cause the Romans to march inland/along the coast and die, or spread out relatively widely, developing agricultural and fishing systems quickly (after all, they would have had plenty of former farmers). There would be a LOT of breeding with native women, but Roman culture would probably be pretty much upheld, and you'd end up with a very self-reliant, organized nation with one hell of a founding story. Also, with no Christanity and no dark ages, you'd probably have a very different idea of science and philosophy. I'd guess that very logical, Grecian philosophy mixed with Roman ideals of self-reliance and the State would be the main influence on their culture, and rather than the scientific method they would be focused around heavy engineering based on theoretical innovations, rather than the hypothesis, trial, implementation method. Chances are that means bigger buildings, and a focus on practicality.

>>15492014
Seconding. LA is a deathtrap, do NOT let its proximity to the San Fernando Valley trick you, even that place required aquifer tapping to be productive.

San Francisco, on the other hand, is frankly the only city in the entirety of North America that isn't huge for totally artificial reasons. It is a natural harbor, it has ideal conditions for agriculture and grazing, it is a good temperature to grow virtually any crop on Earth at some point in the year. It is San fucking Francisco. Even its surrounding areas are fabulous. Yes, even fucking Santa Cruz, if you can see it through the weed smoke.

Either these guys are going to have to struggle for decades to scratch a living out of that nightmarish pit in the south, or they're going to go looking for greener pastures, and find them in the azure bay of Monterey.

>>15492119
Just gonna toss it out there, at no point during the dark ages did any European people go from being Rome to being a hunter-gatherer society with not only no agricultural base, but no housing, relations with their neighbors, or maps. Overnight.

These Romans are in such deep shit compared to those spoiled European cunts (dark ages my ass, half of them started the dark ages wearing bear skins and left it in slashed tunics and silver codpieces) that they'll have to name this period of their history The Shit Ages just to keep things in perspective.

romans don't need women, they have each other's thighs

>>15492201
The legions carried everything with them.

They were basically living on the stone age wherever they went, carrying everything they needed with them. They even had their own smiths.

Raw materials will be a problem, but in no way would the legions be in "deep shit". We're talking about a fully self-sufficient force capable of fending for themselves.

Granted, there will likely be bitching when it comes time to reforge some of those weapons into farmtools and it will be a pretty "You want to do WHAT?" when someone mentions that we're better off with rudimentary spears, resource-wise, than full swords; but no, that's not "Deep shit".

>>15492311
Didn't they also have the usual train of prostitutes, traders etc.? Have a large enough base of women, and you might not even need the natives (who'd probably be dying off from European diseases anyway). Hell. plonk an apothecary or two and you've got the basis for a city right there.

A fascinating idea.
I think the legion would be just fine. After a century or two of establishing an economic and cultural base, they would begin a conquest of the coasts or california and uniting all the various tribes.

You know, kind of like EXACTLY how Rome itself came to be. It would basically be the Aeneid all over again.

I also like the idea of native auxiliaries that were mentioned by another anon earlier. Most of the tribesmen would be trained/cultured to fight in the roman style, but Rome as also famous for taking the concepts and tactics of their enemies into their own ways of fighting, and then improving upon them.

I'm now imagining lorica wearing, face-painted, tomahawk wielding skirmishers that shout war cries as they charge into battle for scalp trophies to present to Caesar, the son of the Jupiter Eagle.

>>15492311
That's pretty deep shit. Anywhere else, at any point in history, pretty much no matter who you took as your control group, that would be the apocalypse.
Romans are just abnormally buoyant in shit. Romans live in the shit pool. Romans can tread shit indefinitely. So they'll live. But this is a phenomenally bad situation, even for them. Evidently they survive and prosper, since we can already see into the future a thousand years and they now run the entire continent, but nobody's going to be looking back at this time as a happy one.

>>15491880
>>15491929
Actually, it's because vikings weren't a uniform group of people with any kind of formal training regimen or general standard to uphold. You had the ones who were so badass the Byzantine emperors employed them as the elite Varangian Guard, and then you had the ones who were little more than traders with weapons.

>>15492365
>the coasts OF california
>Rome IS also famous
need . . . . coffee . . . .urrgghh

>>15492353
>mfw the hoes save the day

The Natives shouldn't be underestimated but we're talking about Romans fighting in a land with a lot of open plains in a land where NOBODY has horses.

That in mind, will the Romans have enough horses with them to maintain a breeding stock? What the fuck are they going to do for communication and supply without all those horses?

>>15492365
The Jupiter Eagle sounds like an 80s Album.

The romans don't know where the fuck they are, they don't know what to grow, nor were they preparing for a trip.

If you had some mean bean natives, they could kill them off with some effort. Poison them, lead them astray, etc.

>>15492427
Good point- who were around San Fran?

>>15492438

the Bear Tribe

>>15492407
I would assume that as soon as the romans figured out they weren't in Roman Kansas any more, they would immediately build a frontier fort and settle into one spot.

The war horses would be preserved, because people aren't stupid about wasting extremely valuable war horses.
So basically, they would probably cut their active cavalry cohort in half, keeping one half combat ready and the other half for breeding.

Wait.
Fuck.
Weren't warhorses primarily stallions? I don't know if they would even have female horses for breeding, which fucking sucks for EVERYONE since horses are an integral part of society at that time period. Horses were used for EVERYTHING

Remember that the Dark Ages were not, in fact, actually Dark Ages. The term originated as a way to describe the decline in poetry, was then applied to describe the lack of historical records, and was then used in the 19th Century as an example of why religion sucks (even though Christianity actually helped preserve the knowledge of the Romans by setting up centers of learning). At worst, it was a hundred year recession, but that might actually be exaggeration. It was more a time of political turmoil as colonies had to learn to be self-sufficient. Stuff still got invented.

These Romans are in for a much tougher time, because they've been dropped into a land with NO infrastructure, no investment, no exploitation. They'll be lots of resources once they get going, but until then they're in deep shit. Also, the Romans probably won't be able to conquer all the natives and the natives historical did organise into nation-like states eventually to counter/live alongside the settlers.

>>15492451

war horses are gelded. You don't want horny horses in warfare.

>>15492451
Yeah. And the Romans only used horses for their auxiliaries and pulling supply wagons. Also, they weren't very big or impressive horses (proper war horses came later) they were more like large ponies.

>>15492407
I'd say it would depend on how much of their force was auxiliary cavalry. Conveniently, we know that the man in charge of this expedition was fucking Crassus, who had a force with enormous cavalry support for a Roman army of his day, because he knew he was going to be fighting Parthians. However he ended up in China and then America, that means he's got a good, diverse stock of horse, with more probably drawn from Bactria and the verious Hellanistic and Persian demikingdoms in that region.

So assuming total manpower including support personnel, slaves and whores in the baggage train totals out to about 50,000, horsepower and mules should probably number in the region of 20,000. Mules, of course, are sterile, so when they're done they're done, but there also might be civilian donkeys to breed (they did have to pass through Asia Minor...) chickens were usually kept with the army for the officers, cows are a longshot but conceivable, as milk was believed helpful for the wounded, and pigs are a moot point since the west coast is fucking made of boars.

They'll probably manage. The biggest threat to Roman survival right now is the potential of disease. The Black Death hasn't happened yet, nor has Smallpox, which were the two major killers of the natives. Obviously tedious shit like the flu and the measles will probably kill umpteen million of them, but what if something hits them back? The Romans did not have as sound of a grasp of medicine or disease as the historic European colonists did, after all.

>>15492451
>>15492462
I wouldn't worry about the gelding. The Romans weren't exactly on the cutting edge of cavalry warfare, they hadn't even figured out stirrups yet. The Scythians and the Parthians might've figured out that neutering horses would make them more effective in war, but I don't think the Bromans circa 50 BC did it.

GUYS GUYS

MAYBE THE WEST COAST NATIVES FROM 0AD miiiight be different from the ones that came around OVER ONE THOUSAND years later?

>>15492523
which means they are DOUBLE PUSH OVERS

>>15492460
Stands to reason I suppose. You'll probably see a lot of client-kingdom situations, just because places like the Mojave would be so difficult to take and hold. (And even if you could take it and hold it, why would you want to? There's nothing there.)

In a way, though, once they get over their crippling lack of numbers (a few hundred years at worst) the Romans might actually do better in fighting the natives than the more advanced Europeans did. Their reliance on armored melee warfare with limited missile support might be just as effective, and a lot less prone to successful ambush than those poor colonial troops' tactics were.

>>15492371
Oh, don't get me wrong (I'm the one you responded to). I didn't mean to say that they weren't in shit.

Just not DEEP shit. I mean, they'll have a hard time, but there's no way in hell that the first two generations will have much of a problem, due to the know-how and resources they have with them (after all, with a smith, the armors and weapon, these could last for years of continuous use or be reforged). And after those two-or-so (I'm pulling "two generations" out my ass here; it just seems like a reasonable number in my head) generations, they should have everything necessary up and running.

I mean, not only would they have tents, ditches and fortifications up and running the first night, but within a week you'd have a full fort.

Fun fact: EVERY time the Roman Legions made camp, they made fortifications. Every single night. In times of great war or when many legions marched together, entire regions were deforested, just because they needed fortifications for nightfall.

>European explorers arrive

>"Ave, fishermen. We are not familiar with your tribe, but we greet you."

>"We're not fishermen, we're... Are you speaking Latin?"

>"...Yes. Why?"

>"Nevermind. We're from Spain."

>"...I do not know of this Spain."

>"Look, nevermind, we just got here from across the sea, we're looking for India. Is this India?"

>"I have never heard of, nor seen an India. Perhaps it is one of the local tribes?"

>"No, nevermind. You are very strange, you speak a very old language, and that armor, it reminds me of something. I say, may I ask you something?"

>"What is it, friend?"

>"Where does that road you're paving lead?"

>"Where do all roads lead?"

>>15492669
where are they getting their food?

Starving soldiers have a tendency to trade their weapons away too, unless the officers can stop them.

GUYS we should think about what the Romans would make of the event. When OP's players come in 2 thousand years later, OP better have an fucking awesome myth of the founding of the Atlantean Empire.

Maybe some sort of fusion between Roman and Native American mythology? I don't know a thing about early Native American mythology.

>>15492407
>That in mind, will the Romans have enough horses with them to maintain a breeding stock?
Are we talking a full legion here? If so, yes. There may be some inbreeding for a few generations, but nothing major enough to substantially degenerate the stock.

I mean, yeah, sure, they would possibly degenerate a bit, but not to the point of not being useful for breeding anymore.

Yeah that's right kids; The romans had horses and the romans had cavalry, even though you never get to see them in all the fancy movies.

>>15492690
>"Where do all roads lead?"
Heh.

>>15492715
"Gauls did it."

>>15492719Yeah that's right kids; The romans had horses and the romans had cavalry, even though you never get to see them in all the fancy movies.


they weren't very good and most Rome+Horse stories are about people shooting arrows at them from horseback.

>>15492715
LONG AGO IN A DISTANT PAST, I, AKU, THE SHAPESHIFTING MASTER OF DARKNESS, UNLEASHED AN UNSPEAKABLE EVIL

BUT A FOOLISH LEGION OF ROMANS, WIELDING A LEGION OF ROMANS, MARCHED FORTH TO OPPOSE ME.

BEFORE THE FINAL BLOW WAS STRUCK, I TORE OPEN A PORTAL IN SPACE, AND FLUNG THEM AWAY TO ATLANTIS, WHERE ALL WOMEN ARE SQUAW!

NOW THE FOOLS SEEK TO CONQUER THE LAND, AND UNDO THE FUTURE THAT IS THE SIOUX.

>>15492715
>I don't know a thing about early Native American mythology.
That's because there weren't really any (at least not when we showed up) a uniform myth. It's a mish-mash of animism and shamanism.

All in all, it's pretty easy to reconcile with the Greco-Roman faith, actually, especially if you consider that the Roman faith was pretty monolithic in it's dieties, while the indians were a diverse number of minor myths about a number of animal dieties or creationary spirits.

So take the regular polytheistic faith of the Romans (Or any old European faith, really) and then allow for various minor spirits. Obviously, the great spirits will be merged with pre-existing Gods. Jupiter may aquire eagle-like characteristics, for example. But overall, split the faith in two.

One with dominant, monolithic gods, subject to the traditional hierarchy. And another part, venerating the spirits of any one animal, or the spirits of a forest.

>>15492745
That's beside the point.

Shut up. ;_;

>>15492741
A Gaul couldn't find his ass with both hands and his feet in the air. Mark my words, this is Egyptian work.

>>15492777

>Roman faith
>monolithic

Only if you use 'monolithic' to mean "Hey, there's this god that people over there pray to. They're now part of the Empire... and, hey, look! That god is really a facet of INSERTGODOFCHOICEHERE."

how much do we know about the natives in that region? I thought most were killed off pretty quickly and their kids mindscrubbed

>>15492791
I'm dubious. If the Egyptians knew about this place, they'd live here. This seems more the sort of thing a Greek would come up with, sending us somewhere beautiful to see if we'll ruin it and kill each other anyway.

>>15492818
Fairly instantly. The Modoc (or something similar) did alright for themselves, but they were up in Oregon. The Mohave (who lived in the Mojave) were pretty hardassed, but at no point numerous.

Everyone else was a joke. It wouldn't be until they hit New Mexico and Texas, Utah, Colorado etc that any serious resistance would likely be encountered.

hey OP, how come the Chinese know magic

>>15492814
>Hey, there's this god that people over there pray to. They're now part of the Empire
This is not true. The romans took their faith and superstitions very seriously. Yes, it is possible to joke about how they basically copy-pasta'd the Greek faith once they had taken Greece, but that is very early in the history of what we consider the Roman State. This likely have more to do with the organized religion of Greece compared to the haphazard faiths and superstitions of contemporary Rome - precisely because the faith was fairly monolithic.

>and, hey, look! That god is really a facet of INSERTGODOFCHOICEHERE.
This, however, is entirely true, which ties into my point. The Great Eagle? Clearly an aspect of Jupiter.

>>15492838
by the time they expand out that way they will be back in asskicking shape

expanding northward along the coast would probably be what they'd do rather than attempt to head inland

>>15492843
yeah details would be very welcome on that

>>15492843
If ANYONE on Earth is going to have magic, we all know that it's going to be the Chinks. So if there's a scenario that requires magic, might as well have it perpetrated by them.

>>15492843
I don't think it's been brought up again in any context. For all we know, magic is commonplace and the Romans have sorcerer-battalions floating about.
Of course I doubt that, since this seems to be a rather serious, if fanciful, scenario otherwise. Its probably just a plot device to get the Romans to America.

What about technology levels? Would legions have people with them who would understand how a lot of Roman technology worked? Or would a lot of it be lost because the legions just wouldn't have architects and engineers (or whatever you call them, I don't know)

Would they be able to keep making concrete, or would they have to re-discover it, like the Europeans did, that kind of stuff?

>>15492895
rome had military engineers

>>15492719
you know, I'm fairly sure greys come from arab stock

>>15492895
>Would legions have people with them who would understand how a lot of Roman technology worked?
The Legion would have well-educated nobles in the top tiers, as well a an assorted number of learned men, and assistants. Each squad (I forget their name) had at least one man that could read/write. On top of all that, the Legion would certainly have at least a group of military engineers capable of building or organizing the construction of everything from battlements to aqueducts. Add to that apprentices of those military engineers.

Fun roman fact: Did you know that the Roman Legions were the ones to build most of the roads in the Roman State? As they marched from one place to another, they also put up new roads. This was such a bitch a number of small rebellions happened over it, but they did it, and roads were the foundation of both troop movements and commerce.

>>15493005
I don't know jack shit about horses. I just point it out.

Most likely, the horses would become beasts of burden fairly quickly, once they realize that there's no-one there to do their work for them.

>>15493096
fuck yeah.

Also, don't forget that the Roman economy depended upon slaves.

In the end, the legionnaires are not farmers. In my mind, they would likely start enslaving surrounding tribes fairly quickly. Both for breeding and work.

>>15493096
They also made a fortified-camp-fort everytime they stopped to camp. Every fucking time. Awesome guys.

>>15493189
I already mentioned that. :D

I foresee a lot of the local natives simply moving away from the Romans. There were few to no major agricultural settlements anywhere on the continent at the time. In fact, the archaeological record is pretty spotty at about 50AD in North America.

Let's assume the Romans catch, rape/enslave, and generally colonize California and the surrounding regions for a good few hundred years and don't manage to make contact with Teotihuacan before its collapse around 600AD.

The Maya flourished in the jungles of modern Guatemala and Chiapas, Mexico until 950 AD (collapse of their empire, not that they disappeared). That's a long time for a highly ambitious empire like the Americo-Romans to make contact with.

The people that would become the Aztecs migrated south from Utah in the 1300s, following a dwarf (you heard me, a dwarf, like the Gimli kind) named Huitzilopotchli to Mexico (Our stout friend would turn into a rock on the way and have to be carried). Would the Americo-Romans interrupt that migration? What then?

>>15493700
I foresee these american romans (ameromans?) spreading into the pacific northwest before they head eastward simply because the land is more easily used there. Maybe a good few centuries of consolidating their hold on the Pacific coast they will set out into other areas

>>15493728
though they'd probably contact the Aztecs prior to the height of their civilization which might spur on advances in Aztec culture.

In the event the Romans don't take over the Aztecs for whatever reason, they won't be pushovers by the time the Spanish arrive

Oh, god, Aztec culture and Roman style armors blended...

>>15492600
>places like the Mojave would be so difficult to take and hold. (And even if you could take it and hold it, why would you want to? There's nothing there.)

Borax. Which I'm sure even people at the Roman tech level would find quite useful.

so how big do you think cali-rome would be by the time columbus showed up in 1492? Would they have spread to the east coast, or would the rockies have isolated them?

>>15493822

The assumption of the setting is that, upon hitting the Caribbean, they bump into Atlantean settlements. So they're obviously going to have a presence in the east no later than the early 1400s.

If it takes them fourteen centuries to subjugate all of North America, then they're slack as hell.

>>15493822
I think they'd have managed to cross it without too much of an issue though I think it's more likely that they'd simply have gone through mexico and into the gulf

California Native Americans weren't entirely pushovers. When people mostly think of that, it's usually in the context of Spanish (and later, Mexican) Missions and an almost enslavement-based conversions to Christianity. But that was really only one tribe out of the lot, granted the biggest. And it happened only because they welcomed it. They had just gone through a major drought, and they were thinking about ditching their gods and patron spirits for new ones. Basically, blame the spirits for not giving us food. Suddenly, Christian missionaries spreading the holy word. They leaped at it. Not pushovers, just desperate for a new religion, which was being provided.

>>15493882
wrong time period bro

>>15492476
Actually, depending on the period, they had a better grasp of Medicine then many of the early settlers, as did most pre-columbian societies. (Say what you will about Epedemics and Quarantine, but they did know enough to avoid some of the more pants on head retarded ideas the Settlers had, and what Herbal knowledge they have will be indispensable to the Romans.)

>>15493700
Yeah, although there were the Mound Builders complex out in the Mississippi basin and the Gulf Coast, right upto 1492, and the various South American civilizations. But yeah, the first real Civilization as they might define it would probably be the Predecessors to the Coastal Salish, and then after that, if they start conquering the southwest would likely be the Hohokam, and Mogollon, both of whom engaged in trade with the Mesoamericans.

The Salish/other PNW tribes could have some serious affects on the Romans Artistic and architectural styles, as would the massive quantities of Redwood available (which are going to be a bitch to cut down for normal stuff, but great for long term building.) Of course, the Romans would probably introduce them to Agriculture, possibly by force.
Also, the Mayan City-States, the Mesoamerican empires and Iroquoian tribes are likely to be big adversaries or valuable sources of Auxilae for the Romans.

>>15493893

Merely commenting on the average opinion on Cali injun 'pushoverness.'

I realize that the situation would be different 1500 years previously.
Just don't underestimate the Native Americans, is what I'm saying. I'm not saying they could win against the Romans in the long run, but they'd make it tough going for some time.

>>15493903
>Also, the Mayan City-States, the Mesoamerican empires and Iroquoian tribes are likely to be big adversaries and then valuable sources of Auxilae for the Romans.
FTFY

>>15493700
>and don't manage to make contact with Teotihuacan before its collapse around 600AD.
I find that unlikely, though. Remember that we're not dealing with normal cultural development here. We're dealing with a total and complete military structure.

As soon as they are established, they would send scouts far and wide. They'd establish outposts at strategic locations, which they'd also send scouts from. I don't see how a single town or city they make for the foreseeable few hundred years after "planetfall" is even organically grown, rather than "Here. This is where we place a city".

>>15493916
most towns and cities are going to be built out from the outposts as the population increases

>>15493822

Just as far as useable land goes, I'd think:

California -> Wilamette Valley -> Columbia River -> Northern Rockies -> Prairie Canada/Upper Midwest -> Great Lakes. That's probably about as big as one empire can control when messengers travel by horse, and armies by foot. Maybe simultaneously colonize the Colorado River, and cross the Rockies somewhere around Denver or Colorado Springs.

There'd probably be Roman-influenced tribal societies along the East Coast, and the Mississippi & Ohio valleys, but whether they'd beat Columbus to the Caribbean is anyone's guess.

>>15493876

The general tack of colonization, though, will be interesting, as it will originate from the west. I'm seeing an expedition across the peninsula somewhere around Oaxaca / Vera Cruz, since the other options are OVER A FUCKHUGE MOUNTAIN, ACROSS A FUCKHUGE DESERT, or THROUGH THE FUCKHUGE JUNGLE. (Which is going to be the impression the Roman transplants take away from their new surrounds - everything is FUCKHUGE.) If they continue tracking the coast, they'll come up to Fuckhuge Swamp and the estuary of the Fuckhuge River. They go far enough upriver, they'll come to the confluences of the Mississippi and the Ohio, and then the Mississippi and the Missouri. They'll look east and see forested hills and fertile floodplains. They'll look west and see the FUCKHUGE PLAINS. Jackpot.

This is why I see the eventual capital of Atlantis sitting somewhere between St. Louis and Cairo, IL.

>>15493931
And said outposts are going to be Strategically Located. So, really they should be incontact with the Mesoamerican tribes, even if only through the Proto-Hohokam and proto-Mogollon by 40BC at the latest.

>>15493913
I sincerely doubt it. Remember that we are talking about the actual indians here, not the ones in Hollywood. Their weapons were poor and they weren't very mobile.

>>15493960
hmm... i really think they'd have the captial be the "first city"

>>15493931
Exactly my point.

No city will rise like most cities have risen throughout history. The cities will come about because of military precision, by military decision.

Imagine the aqueducts these people would build across the flatland prairies within the first 100-200 years.

We're plotting a FUCKHUGE Roman Empire, but when the Romans actually got that over in Europe, its own size caused many of its problems and eventual downfall and split. Would that be replicated here, in some manner?

For instance, we'd have some fuck awesome land in the West, and in the East, but it'd be sparse inbetween. That'd be a pretty major divide, culturally, politically, and militarily.

Also, how far south would they descend?

>>15493999
WHAT A GLORIOUS PICTURE

>>15493985
No. It's a natural thought, but just like most capitals, it is not about where something originated, but at whatever is at the center of the Empire. This has fallen out of use for the past couple of hundred years, but it was very relevant for most of human history.

The capital will likely move several times during the evolution of the new Empire, to end up being situated somewhere roughly in the center of the Empire, or at a location which has good connections to most of the Empire (just a reminded; Water is a connector, not a barrier).

>>15494026
Yeah, I thought so too.

At first I though like "What? The military cities or the aqueducts across the prairie?" but then realized that it was a stupid, stupid question. The answer is obviously "BOTH!".

Would New Rome have complete dominion or would some Native tribes eventually band together, steal some of their shit and try to compete?

>>15494055
hmmm... i wouldn't expect to see that until New Rome has sufficiently developed and expanded quite a bit and they'd all be sitting on the frontier

>>15493985

Now we're getting into cultural questions. How strongly do they associate with The Event that dumped them in Cali? Do their cultural mores outweigh sensible logistics? Does the first settlement become more than just another in a long series of outposts, and does culture and governance eventually flow from there? In that case, I see them having administrative capitals elsewhere but the spiritual (and core governmental capital) would remain in California. But Romans are noted pragmatists. Running the colonization of an entire continent from the tiny sliver of land between the FUCKHUGE Mountains and the FUCKHUGE Ocean, bordered to the south by the FUCKHUGE Desert? Bad logistics. It might even doom them to being a regional player. (Which, we know they're not. They won. We're figuring out the how.)

>>15494003
And when some well to do tinkerer gets his hands on some fine spun decorative copper, some lemon juice or vinegar, some clay pots, and some iron (smelted into small bars and ingots), with a tiny bit of a mixup in storage?

>>15494070
cali will probably always have a place in the New Roman religion but I think they'd be sensible enough to not limit themselves by making it their center

>>15494003

I can see the various client states and regions pledging various degrees of allegiance to Atlantis, possibly engaging in some spirited border skirmishes and maybe an outright smash and grab or two. I think the biggest thing that would keep the Atlantean Empire intact as a continental body would be good ol' Roman pragmatism. You pay lip service to Atlantis, submit your taxes (nearly) as ordered and (relatively) on time, and you supply legions as requested. You do this, and you're mostly left alone to do as you see fit. You fail to do this or refuse, and the REST of the legions are going to come methodically destroy and enslave you, and put someone better-behaved in your place. It would only be if the totality of the Empire fell apart, and NOBODY was supplying legions to enforce Atlantis' will, that would result in mass balkanization.

>>15492407

They're not going to do communication and supply without horses. At least, not very well.

They're certainly not going to be able to run a unified continent-wide empire without horses. Heck, they probably won't be able to run one cohesively WITH horses.

Thinking about it, I'm pretty sure the romans would (presuming they land somehwere near san fransico) build thier main city there, its an large isolated bay with a large important river flowing through it. From there they would easily be able to spread their influence down the coast and central valley. Although I dont think that would be where they would ake thier biggest push. More likely they would expand north, as oregan and washington have climates similar to central europe, and vast quantities of timber as well as more farmable land and better water supplies.

From there its debatable whether they would continue north into canada, then move east avoiding the southern deserts or continue along the coast to alaska and maybe even russia. Although neither of these are easy to live through winters, it would be preferable for a large organised army like the romans than trying to cross the southern rockies then navigate new mexico/colorado/arizona until they reach the great plains.

>>15492690
I love that last line.

In the actual first contact though I doubt conversation would be quite so easy. Some among the Spanish explorers may know Latin but languages, especially ones that will be subject to so much cultural exchange, mutate quickly. The Latin root likely will help with translation though.

>>15494072
Is this one of those "suicide gas" shenanigans again?

>>15492777

So Japan's Great Tradition/Little Tradition then. That's workable, and a good political tool.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15491610/
Archive'd

>>15494072
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery

And telegraph lines. How much easier would running an empire be with some of those, eh?

>>15494547
Yay, I contributed!

Just for comparison, how long did it take Rome to expand from being just the...Latins? or whatever to being a Med-spanning empire? It might give us a better idea of how feasible getting to the east coast would be for our Cali-brah Romans.

>>15494693
If it's infeasible for them to have an empire stretching from coast to coast we could have them move eastwards early, maybe split like anon suggested. If we can't get it to make sense for them to move that way we could just have them start in the east. Is them starting in cali really important to the setting considering the PCs will be meeting them on the east coast? Why not have them start there or in the plains?

What did we say, anyway? Since I'm not American, I just sorta phased out when people started talking about location, with mention of a bunch of locations that meant nothing to me.

They appear on the west coast? North or South?

I can see them following the coastline, mostly, really. Especially since they have no idea where they are - for all we know, they can consider it another coastline of the Mediterranean for years, maybe several hundred, depending on their technological development and spread. I don't think they took any astronomers with them and the odds of there being seamen is low. Although it's not inconceivable that there are. Not being able to immediately find well-known astronomical markers may be a dead tipoff that they may be in Kansas evermore.

I don't see them holding together a Americas-spanning Empire before the advent of the telegraph and trains. There's a reason the Roman State grew up around the Mediterranean. A lot of travel will be by boat for a very long time.

Although it would be fucking awesome if they could devise long-range travel by special aqueducts.

Actually, this raises a pretty interesting question, now that I think about it. There wasn't really anything preventing the romans from cross-atlantic travel. And these people will obviously have boats. And chances are that they will be able to readily identify specific astronomical markers in order to establish that they are still on Terra (Mars is where he's supposed to be. So is Jupiter. And if anyone had any doubts, Luna is right fucking there, every night).

Who's to say that they don't just up and sail home after a hundred-or-so years? Or even less, provided they can find the resources.

Just throwing it out there.

>>15494765

I think it's to keep them from going back home.

>>15494807
romans really didnt have the kind of boats required to cross an ocean

also it is perfectly possible for the Cali-romans to stumle upon using electricity though happy accidents that result in something akin to a baghdad batter and then experimenting with it

I think given their circumstances they'd have had to experiment with all sorts of things around them to figure out how to best make use of what they have since most of the plants and wildlife around is unlike what they'd be used to


maybe have it so the cali-romans are signifigantly more advanced with electricity to the point of having telegraphs but they are lagging behind europeans with gunpowder?

Wait, what about the Chinese? Would there be a big Chinese myth about how they used their magic to disappear a goddamn Roman Legion?

Would they remember it on the off chance the Atlantean Empire expanded off into the Pacific?

>>15492719

To be fair, the Legions and Auxilia did like 90% of the work of the Roman Army.

>>15494906
they'd have legends of robed sorcerer monks from the far east, inflated into legendary hyperboles over time

if they found china again they'd probably want to pick up where their ancestors left off

>>15494878
Sure, but if they're smart enough to pick up telegraphs, then they're not going to take more than one or two encounters to begin experimenting for gunpowder.

>>15495006
oh yeah definately

>>15495006

Gunpowder came about in China because someone was trying to find an immortality drug and discovered that if you mix charcoal, sulfur, and saltpeter, that shit explodes. I don't know about charcoal, but if you had a Atlantean tinkerer or chemist somewhere around that could find an excuse to put all that stuff together -maybe for introducing incense to some new Roman/Native American cult around Portland, Oregon, or some damn thing- you'd have gunpowder.

On the one hand you have maybe 70-100 european explorers armed mostly with swords and crossbows, with a few guns and maybe a cannon or two thrown in. The wealthy will have a horse, which in fact kicks them up into a higher catagory when the loot is divided. Armor is mostly a steel breastplate and helmet.

On the other you have the entirety of the Tenth Legion and four cohorts of Sioux Auxila and two of Huron.

I know who I'm placing my money on. The Romans will have gunpowder tech a few weeks after they capture a few guns. And if they capture a few guns, they're gonna capture more then a few Spaniards. Who, properly motivated, will teach the romans how to make gunpowder. And Guns.

Ten years later the Senate orders 12 legions to launch an invasion against Spain under the command of the rising star Marcus Four Winds Crassus.

>>15495099
Indeed, I didn't mean to imply that they wouldn't have gunpowder, only that they would be behind at it in relation to the europeans

giving the telegraphs and similarly leveled electrical technologies would give europeans a profound sense of wonder and awe

>>15495137
and then they learn what happened to the 'old rome'

>>15495183

>Implying a unified rome with the resources of north america wouldn't totally destroy most of Europe.

>>15495282
World War 1 comes early in this timeline

>>15491983
>a scottsman could piss on it and grow hops,
Red wine based aperitif, 15% abv.
Sodium glycerophosphate, an emulsifier.
Dipotassium phosphate, a protein stabiliser
Disodium phosphate, a stabiliser and emulsifier.
Caffeine, 37.5 mg/100ml (i.e. 0.0375 % w/v)
Vanillin

No hops there.

>>15495314

It'd make for a fuckawesome global war, but I actually think it'd stave off WWI. WWI came about because of tensions between the European nations; if they had an outside enemy to worry about, they might well have banded together against it and smoothed over their problems.

Whether hostilities would break out between them and Ameri-Romans, I'm not sure.

>>15495282
Yeah but that'd be kind of boring.

So just make it so Rome doesn't get all of North America. Oh, it gets a large part of it. But there are Natives who shaped up, banded together and copied the technology in an effort to maintain their way of life.

>>15495416
well I was just saying that a war between Ameri-Rome and europe would be large enough to be called a world war though it'd be a hell of a lot different

>>15495438
I would suggest the "five civilized tribes" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Civilized_Tribes) band together an actually make a nation for themselves

>>15495487
also the Aztecs might have wisened up a bit through their contact with Rome to actually persist long enough to be considered a regional contender

if they get their game enough to conclude peace treaties with rome they might take to conquering southward outside of rome's reach

>>15495520
The thought of an Aztec empire, battle hardened by fights with Romans resisting a Spanish invasion and unifying all of South America under Aztec rule is terrifying.

>>15495548
WHICH MAKES IT FUCKING HORRIFYINGLY AWESOME

>>15495548
Gentlemen.

Roman North Americans
Aztec South Americans
Chinese East Asians
Prussian Europeans
Russian West Asians
Persian Middle Easterners
And.. someone in africa.

The wars will go on forever.

>>15495611
FUCK IT.

INDIA UNITES SOMEHOW.

THIS WORLD WILL NEVER LEAVE A STATE OF WAR.

Also, it should be noted that Roman politics can be pretty vicious. 1000 years is easily enough time to have a civil war.

>>15495611

Africa can just be the Wild West of the setting. No law besides what you can enforce with a gun, not even the law of colonialists. Just raw, untamed chaos.

Also, the aborigines in Australia are all wizards.

>>15495655
true

maybe we should have a splinter nation that resides in the southwest and texas?

>>15495655

Heh, I was allowing for at least one civil war and reunification. Fourteen centuries is a long damn time.

>>15495685
>Also, the aborigines in Australia are all wizards.

Since they were discoverd by the Europeans, all of them are drunk wizards.

>>15495698
makes sense though small splinter states in the southwest would work as well, and Rome doesn't care since it gives them a buffer agains tthe southeast tribes and the aztecs

>>15495715

Which is the best kind of wizard.

Or the worst, if you're not a wizard.

I'd like to think instead of California they were in Mexico/Texas area. There they'd mix with the native civilizations already there, which was pretty advanced for the tools they had. Now if metalurgy and the likes were introduced, I'd imagine the Spanish conquest of Mexico would not of happened.

Romans grew up in same disease ridden area as the Europeans and had the same disease resistance. They'd take the disease with them, which would help as it did with the Spanish. However some 1000 years later, Spanish would find natives resistant to the diseases the Europeans were.

The only thing keeping them in check from spreading north was the plains filled with Comanche and Apache. Which when whiteman came, they stole and bartered for horses and guns. Which they became that more dangerous.

>>15495736
much more meh, they need to go straigh to conquering the shit out of everything

Any decent inspection of this will have the Romans popping up in the middle of the Mayan Empire, and homogenizing with them to become a massive continent-spanning superpower.

They will worship a mix of the Roman gods and the Mayan gods, and the interactions thereof should make it obvious that they are completely juxtaposed, and yet everybody should still believe them.

The disease thing will be a problem, but the Romans were very good at getting women and children from their conquered lands. I daresay the human sacrifice will be limited to men above the age that they could have been converted to RoMayans.

The thing to ask about it whether they will have developed firearms. The Romans certainly had the knack for innovation that could have led to them, but would they have bothered, when all the locals could be conquered with the equipment the Legionnaires already had?

Be sure to mix names, and have a new Praetorian Guard that protects the High Priests.

>>15495688
It would make more sense for a rebellion to start in the East, far from San Fran.

Does anyone have a decent (and large) terrain map of NA? That'd really dictate how the Romans would spread out. Combine that with locations of known tribes across the continent for the various sub-states of the Empire

>>15495805
...while interesting I think I'd rather have Rome and the Aztecs as seperate entities that grow off of each other

>>15495855
The Mayans, Incans, and Aztecs were all contemporary civilizations. The Romans could merge with any one, and still play off of the other two.

>>15495899
yes but at that point they cease to be as roman

I guess we could settle for a nation that is a mingling of Roman and Mayan values when a splinter group of Romans who lost out on a civil war fled to the yucatan before the Aztecs could become adept enough to start conquering the shit out of their own locale

>>15495899
the inca are far enough away to be considering inconsequential

By having the Romans placed into an area where they pretty much able to steamroll whatever is around them allows them to secure their new civilization and consolidate their culture without having the initially dilute it with foreign elements to create a foundation they can build upon.

Of course later when they expand they will absorb elements of the cultures around them but it will be more solidly roman than otherwise

>>15495947
Alternately, they're far enough away for the Romans to have eaten their civilization and conquered their way to the area.

>>15495924
There is no conceivable way for them to remain pure Romans for more than a generation.

They will need to interbreed with the locals. Heavily.

And for Romans, that's going to involve a whole lot of integration on both sides.

>>15495966
well I think we're more concerned about north america than south at this point

plus leaving south america mostly as is with the exception of the northern reachs of it allows for Europe to mess with it more readily

>>15495984
naturally

but what I'm saying is that they will have a stonger, more roman, cultural identity if they set up for themselves at first rather than immediately trying to integrate with another group

>>15495988
Could be.

I just don't see the Romans as being too stupid to think about taking an already-present superpower for their own. If they take Tenochtitlan, they can make a New Rome. If they try to carve a tiny wedge of California, they can build a new...Gallic fort...

>>15496012
Also, the areas with less organized tribes ought to be called New Gaul, or something to that effect.

>>15496000
If they're finding most of their women among native tribes - and in other words, having native women raising their children - then they will (whether willingly or not) end up with a culture that's mostly based on the native americans. Maybe not immediately, but within a few generations.

Government, laws, and whatnot will be Roman simply because those are much slower to change, but religion, folklore, and so on will be mostly native.

>>15491610
It's something worth noting that the concept of infinity is something that really frightened and confused the ancient Greeks and Romans. This ought to be taken into account when they are thrust into an environment that that is defined by how vast it is. FUCKHUGE mountains to the east that are followed by FUCKHUGE plains of eternity and FUCKHUGE deserts of infinity to the south. This is going to be something that they will have difficulty coping with culturally. It's also worth noting that the Romans put much more emphasis on oratory, philosophy, and the arts then they did on technlogical innovation. That was more of a greek thing. That was not to say that iinnovation did not take place, it certainly did as the Romans were a very, very pragmatic and practical bunch, but it is something that will very much affect this new empire, as they are deprived of Greece.

>>15496296

>MFW the midwest becomes the Atlantean province of Elysium.

>Roman American Civil War

Seriously, all of my money.

UPON THE FIELDS OF GETTYSBURGIUM WE WILL CONQUER PEACE FOR DIXIUM!

>>15491610
The two races are as incompatible as the Incas and the Spanish.

One is decentralised, the other is European in the extreme. Centralised, sortof macciavelian (even though this was before his time i belive.)

>>15496510

The followers of the Jupiter Eagle, the traditionalists, still keep slaves, but the most populous areas of the empire have converted to the worship of the Great Spirit/White Buffalo - which would function as a Christianity analog that reintroduces Hellenic and Stoic concepts of mercy and temperance that a Roman legion would have been quick to forget.

So the modernizers from the big Midwest metropolitan areas, only incorporated a few hundred years ago (history being unfucked with for a while East of the Rockies allows the Sioux to develop or something like that), would be White Buffalo worshipers who consider slavery to be decadent and cruel, while the colony of traditionalists who sailed from St.Louisium to New Orleanium (or marched there across Texas) and from there into the South would be planters exercising brutal latifundium.

Anyway, in the initial scenario - Roman disease wipes out most central californian Indians. The survivors escape as refugees, spreading the disease in less extravagant amounts to the Pacific Northwest fisher tribes and the Southwest river-huddling desert farmers. The Romans incorporate a few slaves into their population, ones that don't die or escape as refugees - and they help the Romans with languages and developing disease tolerance (a handful of slaves enough to spread mostly non-fatal outbreaks of local diseases).

Now, would the Romans start farming or is more in their character to march/roadbuild/fortbuild as they are prone to do up into the Northwest to get fish or down into the deserts to conquer proto-pueblo and relatively prosperous river-based farmers growing corn and whatnot? Corn would be a big deal.

>>15496631
LONG before his time.

>>15496685
Roman Hopi?

Ropi?

Kokopelli replacing Jupiter as the ruling god?

you people should read codex Alara

Since the premise of this thread involves there being magic in the setting, I kind of want to mention the Seanchan from the Wheel of Time novels (who are basically Native American Romans wielding slavemages as weapons)...but I know how much /tg/ hates those books.

We need ideas for potential Roman/Native deities.
Jupiter Eagle is the obvious one. Maybe Hades/Crow, Mars/Wolf, Mercury/Fox?

>>15497125
Hey, they're great if you like dressmaking.

>>15497305
Did the Romans have a trickster-type deity? That would be a perfect fit for coyote.

>>15497319
The Romans... Wow, they might've just not had a trickster deity. Mercery and Jupiter both did their share of devious stuff, but there was nothing on par with Loki or Coyote.

>>15497305
Always with the animals.

Kokopelli, the trickster who brings rain, crops, babies, and sometimes has a little fun with the ladies using his detachable penis!

Nanook, Master of Bears!

Glooscap, who bound up the great eagle whose flapping wings created unbearable storms!

Not to mention the mesoamerican gods.

It's much more likely that the Romans would blend the animal deities into nymphs or transformed gods, whereas many of the actual anthropomorphized deities would actually be assimilated.

Listen, the reason why the Chinese in 50 BC were able to use magic, but magic doesn't exist today, is because the only creatures capable of using magic are dragons. And the last dragons died out ages ago, the Chinese held on longer than anyone else.

Crassus was ordered to bring back a dragon egg for Rome. He managed to capture one but was then banished by the Celestial dragon of the North.

The dragon egg will hatch a century or so into the Romans' time in the Americas.

Okay, if you wanted a model for a society, look at the Latin Americas. You know, just about any place the Spanish touched.

Why? Because the Spanish, in a cultural sense, were descended from the Romans. And like the Romans, they seemed to enjoy the idea of native cultural/ethnic annihilation by promoting inter-racial marriage while simultaneously making it better to be "less native."

Now considering that Southern California is kind of a shitty place to live, and that the Romans are there by accident, what you're likely to see is a large portion of the Romans dying off, and the rest of them playing nice with whatever nomadic natives they find. It is also likely that due to their knowledge of making things die, along with their appearance, said Romans may end up gaining power and influence in said tribes. Bonus if they know how to harvest metal properly.

>>15497349
Discordia up in this bitch, causin' the Trojan war and shit.

Actually, I could see Coyote fitting with Zeus / Jupiter, assuming Jupiter did as much dicking as Zeus did (same god basically, right?).

Zeus always struck me as a pretty tricky motherfucker, transforming into stuff so as to get into womens' pants and shit.

>>15497410

In time, what you're likely to end up with is some kind of Republic/Empire of Roman Native Americans if the Romans bring with them metallurgic knowledge.

If they ever get big enough, and discover the Colorado river or any other suitably large body of water, then said society will most likely move away from a kind of republic of semi-nomadic tribes (since it's near damn impossible to get large-scale farming in So-Cal), to one that emulates Rome a bit more, as presumably someone would eventually try to recreate the aqueduct systems that allowed Rome to flourish.

And since this is pre-Jesus Romans, it's highly likely that any religion they have will be a combination of the traditional Roman pantheon and the various Native American Animal/ancestor worship.

In terms of warfare, they'd probably adapt into some kind of squad/cohort-based raiding party system, as the terrain and environment in Southern California does not lend itself well to large-scale combat that the Romans are good at. Similarly, you're not likely to see a lot of horse-riding raiders either, as again, mountainous terrain, and the Romans, who will be introducing the horses, were never terribly fond of horse-mounted combat.

San Francisco is a better starting point than LA. LA sucked dick back then.

Hell, it sucks dick now.

>>15497534
It wasn't that they weren't fond of it, it's just "100 knights charging into 10,000 peasants" like you'd imagine cavalry being used for in the Medieval era didn't happen much in the ancient world, armies were too well trained and too disciplined to break on a cavalry charge generally.(exceptions being Gaugamela and Carrhae)


Cavalry were mainly used as flank protectors from other cavalry with practically all cavalry being light aside from Cataphracts which Crassus might actually have access to if they had Parthian mercenaries.

Considering the natives had no real defense against cavalry (i.e Spearwalls like a Phalanx) and no real tactics like a Chiltron formation either I think we could actually see Equites being used as proto-Knights trampling through hundreds of natives.

>>15498244
In addition most Mediterranean cavalry didn't have saddles or stirrups for a long time, and were too small to wear armor or carry a really heavily armored warrior anyway. So cavalry was mostly used for running down defeated foes and skirmishers.

And now I want to install RomeTW again, but fuck that I've downloaded those mods too often to do it again.

>>15498651
>there will never be a Rome Total War 2
sadgreekarmoredhoplite.jpg

Parthians

were they asiatic people?
was their horse techniques similar to what would've been used in East Asia?

>>15498139
are you suggesting san francisco doesnt suck dick?

>>15498716
I think he's suggesting that the land that was there before the city didn't suck a dick.

Everyone knows that the current city of San Fran is the (male) dick sucking capital of America.

>>15498702
They were Iranian. Pretty much all of the cool old ancient civilizations came from Iran/Iraq aside from the Greeks and Romans.

Iranian Cataphracts were the first Knights.

>>15498716
It does, but LA does it with a Welding Torch and without saliva. Which would you rather have.

>>15496510
I WISH I WAS IN DIXIUM
AVE
AVE

>>15498988
My teeth just exploded.

>>15498689
We don't know that! They've just done Shogun 2, and it was wildly awesome. Maybe they'll return to form and do Rome 2, what with the shitton of HBO Rome series coming out lately.

Now, let's say the First Nations of Canada keep tabs on the rabidly-expanding empire to their south. Through theft and the natural exchange of ideas/goods, they advance themselves technologically and create an armed force to mimic their southern neighbors as best they can. AmeRome now faces the threat of northern barbarians, and further north the spear-hunting Pacific tribes realize the ease of getting more food through night-raiding the settled southlands...

>>Captcha: curictio forms

>>15499284
I personally think Shogun 2 is shit, they streamlined too much, in my opinion plus the map felt way too small. Shogun 1 was a nice opener for CA but they could've done so much more with their engine.

Still, it was a step up from Empire.

I'm also just not a fan of Samurai Warfare.

>>15499406
I could see that, especially if they trade for Iron with tribes from the Great Lakes area, since that's the only significant deposit that's easy to get at in the region and the time period.

>>15499464
I get what you mean. Like, Empire wasn't a good game, but I actually like what they did with the strategic map, and it feels like they took a step down with Shogun for simplicity's sake.

Rome 2 would be fucking fantastic if it happened, though. And I think it will.

>>15500029

I actually liked that they consolidated the various towns into one easy to manage screen. Allowing you to build multiple things at the same time was the best thing they did, going back to MW2 or RTW fucking sucks

>>15500029
Yeah, they'll definitely make one, but it still won't be the same :(
>>15500161
I agree, I kinda thought that was neat, but it made games so much faster. I enjoyed Rome for the slow conquest, even slower if I put on some Mods which made 4 turns = 1 year.

Shogun 2/Empire also had no mod support, which is a major step down in my book and I fear there won't be any for Rome.

>mfw no Europa Barborum for R:TW 2 or...Total War Rome 2 if we go by Creative Assembly's new naming logic.

Seriously, am I the only one noticing that? One of my favorite franchises: Heroes of Might and Magic is getting a sequel and now it's called Might and Magic Heroes.

Each Legion was, what, 1000 men? Plus almost all of them had about double that in camp followers You know, the ones who did all the cleaning, whoring, and ripping off of soldiers. A good number of these followers were women and children.
So that's ROUGHLY 2000 people per legion. If there were multiple legions (someone said that the commander in question had 7) that's roughly 140,000 people. That's MORE then enough to keep breeding. They might not even NEED native women. (Though there WILL be inevitable breeding with the natives)

>>15500274
A Legion had an estimated 6,000-8,000 soldiers

>>15500274
If a legion was, indeed, 1000 men, and it had double that in camp followers, that would be 3000 people total. If there were seven legions, that would be 21,000 people altogether, not 140,000.

>>15500161
Oh my God, having to build my legions one unit at a time is a nightmare whenever I start playing RTW again. Its just hellish.
And its a shame, since Rome's 'deal' was that it could spit out legions like nobody's business if it had to.

>>15500430
Wow, my math was WAY off. Or I just added one too many zeroes.

Wow, I leave the thread and come back to this. Only skimmed through what has been said since slightly after the archiving.

>>15500274
>>15500364
>>15500430
>>15500506
>>15500650
How big one "Legion" was depended on when in time these legions were "taken", but the typical Legion was we usually refer to it was approximately 6000 men.

>>15492460
>romans have trouble conquering the mojave
>mon visage quond fallout new vegas takes place

>>15492766
i fucking love you.

I don't think it changes anything concerning the Spanish arrival.

If anything, the tendency to urbanize by the Romans will only exacerbate how virulent the diseases will be for them. This in turn will pretty much destroy the Roman system.

>>15501538
You forget that Romans had everything that Spaniards had in terms of disease.
I anything, romans would inherit a continent empty of any natives.

>>15501558
If that was the case, Europe would not have been devastated by multiple plagues.
Most of the very worst and most virulent of shit came after the Christianization period anyway.

Yeah, Rome will come into the game with some stuff, but I doubt it'd be close to what Europe had managed to cultivate. And besides, it's most effective with an urbanized society. That's why diseases practically sundered the Latin American empires (that and their recession). It was like a zombie apocalypse sorta thing to them in terms of horror.

>>15501604
And why, pray tell, would these things not come to affect the Romans?

>>15501617
Because historically the patterns of urban centers were different than in the period of later antiquity and onward. Additionally, Roman 'glory era' cities, and throughout the Mediterranean world in general, really, had not become cesspits that would engender plague and disease.

>>15501122
>>15500430
So with double the legion in camp followers, 7 legions, each of 6000 men at fresh fighting strength (ie: no casualties since leaving rome)...
42000 Legionnaires
84000 Camp followers.

126000 Romans suddenly appearing on the west cost of the US, with 1/3 of them trained to fight. Yeah, the natives are fucked.

bump