Hey guys. Okay guys. Listening?

What if

What if the local insectoid or arachnid race tended toward a Good alignment?

>>16097128
sure, why not?

I would think it would depend on where they lived. They could be grand craftsmen, weaving fine silks. Or masterful hunters, snaring their pray in their webs.

>>16097128
the living Nerubians are good.

So indeed why not?

>>16097170
i guessing they would be awesome at building castles and citadels, since they can walk on any surface and make spidersilk in vast amounts.

i guess they would be also very good at castle sieges.

>>16097170
So race of spider Rangers?

I like this. But I never see /tg/ discussing rangers come to think of it. Is it just not as hotly contested as Wizards and Paladins?

>>16097258
Fuck yeah. But their castles would be impossible to invade by humans or the like. Upside down passageways, hanging rooms.

are their women fuckable?

>>16097274
No need for lights. Lots of pressure sensitive stuff. They'd probably be creepy to us, because they sense stuff in a totally different way.

>>16097274
"How to get to the sleeping quarters? Just go down that hall, down that pit, take a left, go through the first corridor you see without silk curtains over it and when you're upside down, it'll be the first room above you"

>>16097292
Yes, but they'll eat you afterwards.

Starting with your genitalia.

>>16097292
what? No! They have totally different...you know, equipment.

>>16097292
In a way. She would lay her eggs in your asshole and when they finally hatch they ear you from the inside out.

>Would they eat drow or be aligned with them?
see driders

>fantasy /tg/ settings

Does Gensokyo count?

>>16097053
I dunno man, the small amount of Nerubian lore we have is fucking awesome.

>>16097310
>>16097315
>>16097331
...ehm, i think il just stay friends then.

>>16097300
Suddenly my acrobatics and grappling hook matter.

>>16097337
We did get lore?

I just thought it was "Blah blah Undead fighting spider people with vaguely egyptian theme"

>>16097334
I don't think it counts unless there is full body carapace and mandibles.

Nice wank material though

>>16097354
I always found the Aqir lore to be more intersting than the lore of their Nerubians cousins.

>>16097053
>I mean there was Warcraft with the Nerubians but their culture was barely touched upon and their main city was just reduced to some podunk instances.

Nerubians have some nice fluff going for them.

The problem is that the Psychic Death-God landed on their doorstep with an army of Demon-Vampires and the ability to mentally dominate most of what he couldn't zombify outright.

Granted, they almost won that war if it wasn't for the monarchy betraying them and the whole "if the Nerubians won, there wouldn't be Warcraft 3," but still, they did alright.


Anyways, though Lands of Mystery doesn't go too in-depth with Nerubians, and is not to be considered cannon apparently unless Blizz decides to actually use it, their society is still somewhat fleshed out. Yes, they're spider-people, so they aren't warm and jovial in the slightest, but they had excellent scholars, scientists, and mages back in their time, controlled most of Northrend, and their old army strategy involved a lot of "Find the enemy in the kingdom, get a bunch of Nerubian soldiers together, give them pikes and polearms, and poke the enemy to death." Pretty neat stuff.

>>16097356
>>16097332
Eh. I don't think drow count any more than Mermaids are actual fishmen.

We have Sahuagin (know its not spelled right) for that.

They produce the best armor.

>>16097365
It could be Ananasi - The werespiders from oWoD.

>>16097354

IIRC the Warcraft rpg books fleshed them out a bit more. Brann Bronzebeard went to Northrend and hung with some still living ones for a while. I don't remember much.

There's still a lot of fluff that needs to be written.

>>16097424
Ananasi were assholes though. They weren't quite evil, just...assholes.

>>16097436
How are they assholes?
I thought they were observers.

How about spider-people... who aren't the standard spider-centaur things

>>16097383
why wouldn't they count they are a race of spider people, and Sahuagin(damn close) are shark people

>>16097375
>>16097428
In Cataclysm archaeology also reveals that they could somehow control the Jormungar to carve out their tunnels, and that Nerubian queens can probably pass knowledge from new to old generations.

Or, if you based them off African mythology, they would be a race of tribals led by benevolent mystics.

In my current PF game, there is a nest of Areanae (shapeshifting spider people whose natural form is spiderlike, and they are arcane mages) who are fighting agaisnt an extraplanar incursion of Spiders from Leng. The players have inadvertently stumbled into this conflict in the effort to negotiate a non-agression pact with the Spiders of Leng, who keep takign the gnomish cleric's anti-red dragon warriors as slaves (the gnomish cleric is trying to displace a red dragon who is inciting a hostile takeover of the local realm with volcanoes, alchemist and barbarian kobolds, and psychotic inquisitor and ranger goblins, except the Leng Spiders are stealing her warriors).

So lots. And not a drow in sight.

>>16097375
They didn't almost win the War of the Spider. They were getting their shit wrecked by the Scourge because while they were very resistant to the Plague, the Lich King could still raise those that had fallen. They dug deeper and deeper to escape and accidentally unleashed the Faceless Ones.

ahem

>>16097538
The nobility probably released the Faceless Ones on purpose as a last resort. It's revealed they've probably had contact with the Old Ones for a while.

>>16097456

What, like ettercaps?

>>16097549
not an ettercap, that is an ogre with the insectile template

I think Nerubians had one of the more interesting ways of dealing with Atheism in a setting where gods are very real things.

>In ancient Azjol-Nerub, there were five or six schools of religious thought, and theological debates were common. Eventually, however, nerubians have come to a conclusion that worshiping creatures from beyond the world is insane, and, in the words of the seer Ul'Tomon, "makes as much sense as a fly caught in a web worshiping the spider who is about to devour him". To modern nerubians, even the concept of "worship" itself is alien.


Granted, the Nerubians pretty much ONLY had "eat your heart and soul while you're screaming" Gods before that, but still, it does raise a good point: why open yourself up to be fodder like that?

>>16097692
Cause they might smite you if you don't?

>>16097549
That's actually not an ettercap, that's an ogre with the "insectoid creature" template

>>16097883
>>16097687
huh. well then. learn something new everyday

What do you think the favored weapons of spider people would be? Working on the assumption they had 2-4 limbs and their wall crawling ability

Guys, does anyone remember the kalang that /tg/ made?

Let's do that again.

>>16098049
Lariats, maces, bolas, and whips.

>>16098055
I still say this fucker's wings make no sense

>>16098066
seems to me gravity would fuck up the usage of any of those weapons

>>16098055
Thanks for reminding me of that. I still have to try submitting something on them for 1d4chan.

Or find someone to write it for me. You know, internet apathy.

>>16098049
Spears and nets. Good reach, makes sense for trappers.

The Qiraji were here.

The Nerubians are smalltime and weak.

>>16098119

Says the tards who lost a war to elves.

>>16097837
Considering the gods they had, it's more like "they'll smite/eat you anyway, what's the point?"

>>16098159
Also time warping dragons and whatever ancients the elves could throw at them.

Anyway, yeah, insect races don't have to be evil. That would just be silly.

>>16097692
Here I thought they'd have the same view of religion as Aboleths.

"Oh you're quite powerful sure but we have records before you existed. So we'll give you respect sometimes but that's it."

>>16097053

There was just something magical about the battlecry "For the spider kingdom" in the nerubians' inhuman voices in WC3.

But to have that you'd need kings, which alters the stereotypical (or rather natural) order of how spiders are seen. That is to say, very dominant females. Now I admit, I'm not that knowledgable about spiders, it may as well be the exception not the norm for all I know.

Either that or the kings are chosen by something like a council of queens, who elect him as a balancing voice to unite their factions who would otherwise make war on each other.

So perhaps the 'Spider Kindom' is made up of Broods. Each one a house or a clan like entity to itself with a matron/queen at the head and built like a pyramid of underqueens and their sub-broods servants. And at the end of a king's rule he is eaten by the queens before they somehow ritually appoint a new (and supposedly impartial) king.

Being a race of carnivores they'd most likely be kind of dangerous to deal with, especially with their affinity for poison and traps.

Just spawning some ideas here feel free to comment.

Again taking inspiration from my limited arachnid knowledge, their war effort would as previously mentioned rely heavily on web traps and ambushes, poisonous and acidic weapons. I imagine the fact that you can shit out glue and run on walls would give them access to some rapidly deployable fortifications. Imagine building a "web-moat" (basically just a large buffer zone of web and web-traps to slow and capture an advance) around a layer of fortifications made from whatever was available, and held together by more web and web-glue.

Some preparation and a large number of spider troops would make these things appear over night almost.

For assault and guerrila war they'd have elite units of quick 'jump troops' specialised on stealth and surprise attacks, and specially bred for agility and leaping ability.

>>16098368
Actually Anub'arak and other Crypt lords were once the Spider Kings or some manner for royalty.

So perhaps it is still a mostly female run society but they elect a male ruler as pure Ceremony.

isn't the whole climb walls thing a loophole in physics due to their size and leg hairs? a human sized spider would have a damn hard time climbing a wall

I'd imagine almost any creature that actually ends up in a hunting net (probably by wandering into a designated hunting area) would end up as dinner or as cattle to breed more dinner, since it is nearly impossible for a major civilisation to survive on hunting alone. But the Spider-folk as such are not that hostile. While sentients do make fine (and large) meals they may also be traded with in many cases. For food, wealth, slaves, knowledge and perhaps even used as mercenaries in the Spider Kingdom's interregnum wars (either those are the way that a new king is crowned (by the dominant faction in the war) or it is just a mad dash to smash and grab before a new king is put in place).

As some have mentioned the spiders would naturally have access to a shit ton of what is perhaps THE best (non-magical) fabric in existence (spider silk is awesome, and if a race can produce it in industrial quantities, well that would rock wouldn't it?). Naturally with such easy access to the fabric they'd ofcourse learn to make the most of it and therefore have excellent textile industry.

Apart from this they would probably export large amounts of corrosive chemicals and poisons both of which they can easily produce and therefore have an abundance of. The more powerful the spider who produced the Acid or Poison, the more potent and thus valuable it is.

They'd also as some have mentioned have a unique ability as builders, and by extension probably as engineers.

With all the remains left over of their prey after their acids melt away the flesh i wouldnt be surprised if they had a massive bone based industry too. Perhaps even going beyond crafting and using necromancy.

This wouldn't be seen as evil at all, but rather just a good way to make the most of what you got.

>>16098450

I actually know alot about this subject and it's pretty damn interesting.

The society was neither matriarchal or patriarchal.
But it was split into "kingdoms" of lesser kings and lords, with a "high king" to rule over them all.

Nerubian Queens had heavy say and could turn over a prospective king of the same power, as through them the race continued and learnt ( Nerbian queens can pass on memories to their offspring )

Apart from the King and Queen castes you had the Viziers, more humanoid species designed to handle all the diplomacy and beuratical work around the kings and Queens.

To sum it up.

King - traditional king
Queen - broodmother

King = Queen.

Then Vizers made sure everything ran well.

>>16098512

There are a number of ways they could do that.

Lame excuses like MAGIC MOTHEAFUCGER. Or other ones like razor sharp claws that can hook into most materials, even many kinds of stone. Perhaps they cant actually walk on walls but their claws, legspan, agility, number of legs etc. just make them awesome climbers capable of scaling almost sheer surfaces.

Perhaps they excrete an adhesive on the claws that help.

Regardless they are most likely quite light for their size.

Another thing is sub breeds. Are they all the same spider archetype or are there several, perhaps organized into castes, or perhaps every over Queen is the mother of her own sub-race?

Imagine for example a band of more numerous soldiery, probably pretty small, doubling as trappers and builders in peace time. Supported by huge wide legged monstrosities with extra thick chittin who cant actually scale walls but their physical prowess makes up for the lack of speed (perhaps they have spines on their back that they can launch).

Fat bellied spinners who are bred specially to have a greater netting output and extra web manoeuvrability.

Or the leap troops. Naturally camouflage coloured, light and strong as shit. Fast as fuck with legs designed for jumping and a specialized pair of Main Eyes set on the front.

>>16098609
Here's the important thing. Would it be possible to be friends with one? I don't mean like marrying one or getting laid or anything, just being friends.

>>16097692
Kindred, witness the fate of the children of Nerub. They turned their back to their gods and fell into oblivion.

Their Kingdoms shattered, their queens slaughtered and their hatchlings are twisted and enslaved.

Forever hunted by their dead kin, they will never find peace only despair and sorrow awaits them.

We Qiraji weep for the fate of our cousins but in our heart we rejoice that no such fate will fall on us aslong as we honor the gods.

>>16098756

I dont see why not, while most of them would probably have an deeply seated loyalty to their brood mother, queen and the throne, they are all individuals.

The cultural and mindset differences may be a bit of a speedbump so to speak. Also the fact that it may well eat you if your first encounter happens to be in the wrong place.

Personally I wouldn't put it too far out to have Spider PCs. In fact, this race will be included in the reboot of the homebrew my group plays when we play fantasy games.

The question now I suppose is, what is the name of the race?

In Warcraft the spiders are Nerubians as stated. It has a nice ring to it but even though I imagine this race as somewhat similar visually they need a name of their own.

And 'Arachnids' is just lame.

>however, ionsofti

Better, but still not it, maybe next time captcha

>>16099149
Perhaps something pronouncable easily in their tongue. Lots of hard consenants for clicks of mandibles.

Spider people.

Spiiiiider people.

They taste like spiders but they talk like people!

>>16099210

Man people

Maaan people

Taste like food talk like spider.

It really works both ways.

>>16099149
>>16099189
>>16099210
puh-leeze, the only possible name for spider people is Spiderians, everybody knows that

>>16099225
Probably for humans something like Arachnians

but for their own tongue its V'kkenta or something else with more apostrophe abuse.

>>16099189

well, it would depend on how you imagien thier language to be.

hard consonants? long drawn out wovel with focus on intonation? rolling "r"?

>>16099581
It would be made out of vibrations done by footsteps. A conversation between spider-people would look like tap-dancing to us.

Maybe their language is less about the sound of what they are saying and more the intonation of their clicks coupled with body langauge.

>>16100020
*trips*
What you say bout my mother, twolegs?

How about those totalitarian ants from dexter's laboratory? They're not evil, just militaristic and totalitarian. Life as a drone is hard, all there is to do is work, fight and stop looking a signs.

It could just as easily be harsh aspirations rather than chittering and clicking. I mean, when you have a book lung, there's no telling what sounds you could make.

That all being said, I like the idea of tapdancing being a formal language, used for matters of state and ceremony.

>>16100208
So would that mean Dance would be one of the highest forms of Spider art, with painting and sculpting practically unheard of?

I could picture them enjoying music though, though perhaps most instruments just made out of plucked thread or the sound of something vibrating in the wind.

>>16100544
I wouldn't rule out painting or sculpture.

Can't arachnids see different parts of the visible spectrum than we can? I could definitely see an appreciation for color and shape as an art form, but definitely dance (INTERPRETIVE DANCE!) as the highest.

Music... I have this vision of a spider playing the harp.

>>16100544
I think it would depend on what's must efficient.

If they can comunicate more easerly using tapping on the gorund, then they'll have little reason to develiope a spoken language. Speech basicly being something only learned to communicate with others.

if depends on how far away the spiders can be, while still communicating clearly through foot tapping, and how easy it can be distorted by random things hitting the ground like in >>16100065

in those cases, then feet tapping could be considered an archaic language, no longer practically usefull in the cities where communication would be distorted and interrupted, just by having some drunk spider people stumbling home from a binge, literally walking along the wall of your house.

>>16100664
Archaic or formal language. Something saved for special events or occasions? Scholar's language?

I really like the idea of it being linked to the arachnid version of epic poetry. Truly gifted spiderkin are dancers just as much as they are storytellers, telling tales of glorious battle, love, and creation.

>>16100662
Spiders as a whole have poor eyesight. I think jumping spiders have the best, and even then it's still worse than a human's. Kind of ironic for an animal that has at least six eyes.

>>16100819
How would these spiderkin view their creation if we still go for the atheistic bent?

Perhaps they practice some kind of Ancestor or Royalty worship as being the pinnacle of what their kind should strive to be over Gods, with oaths being sworn to the First King or Queen etc.

>>16100972
No idea. Ancestor worship is probably the most likely scenario I can come up with, though it's definitely more in the veneration of persons whom have done great deeds or are more important ("Do not shame the Broodmother with your antics. Eat your food, stop playing with it.")

I don't know. The idea of spider skalds just makes me giggle.

>>16102540
"If our great ancestor Mother Arn'kaa knew that you were hanging about with the kalang it'd KILL her."

>>16102540

Perhaps their ancestor worship isnt off the ancestors themselves but rather who 'holds their power'. That is to say, whoever ate who ate the important ancestor now embodies them and their ideals.

>>16100662

Perhaps they are more focused on art that is designed for a nearly 360 degree observer. In stead of a flat painting on a wall that very same wall has a magnificent painted relief in an alcove, and the real brilliant work covers entire rooms.

Naturally woven pictures and patterns are common too.

>>16100873

How are spiders with the whole colour vision?

Also jumping spiders have awesome eyesight for something their size. They can for example identify another member of their race based on the shape of the eyes observing them. Which is to say that they can make out two tiny round dots on a vaguely spider-shaped body meters away. (Hell they can even tell if the other spider's eyes are in any way defective, at which point they dont see it as a hostile spider anymore.)

Perhaps this race has a little worse eyesight than the norm, but make up for it with a 360 (or close too) field of vision.

Perhaps they focus more on texture and such with a more limited spectrum of colour.

The jump-trooper assassin breed would then be the exception, having much more advanced frontal eyes and their extra eyes providing little more than a peripheral equivalent.

Bump, this sounds very interesting.
On the spider-like climbing ability, perhaps they have a gland on their 'palm' that secrete some kind of reusable adhesive (kinda like post-it notes) which lasts for some time. This would have the added benefit of grabbing things and have it stick, e.g. harder to disarm. They could also use some kind of martial art which uses grapples, and combine them with this sticky-palm thing to choke or detain enemies easier.

What a tangled web we weave...

What kind of armour would these spider-folk have anyway? I figure they'd go after light weight combinations of light metuls' and bandages?

If we're going with ancestor worship, maybe we should take a page out of the Dunmer's book and have them build weapons and armour out of their ancestors' chitin, out of a belief that they're calling on a portion of said ancestors' spirit to guide them as they fight?

>>16105386
>>16105313
Mix these two ideas.
The Spiderpeeps uses their ancestor's chitin not only on weapons- they use them in armor as well. Maybe have it so the Spiderpeeps molt every once in a while, so there's quite a lot of these chitin. They dip the chitin in molten metal, and after it's cool enough, wrap it in spidersilk. So their armor would probably look like modern kevlar vests or flak vests sans the pockets, combined with paint or embrodieries. Sometimes they sew jewelry in armor to show status, and provide some more protection.

>>16104460
Alright, what about these guys?
Also, how humanoid and how arachnoid should these guys be? Are we leaning more towards ettercap-ish manspider or Nerubian humanoid torso with arachnid abdomen?

>>16105490
Chitin dipped in metal wouldn't look as interesting, imo.
I was thinking more along the lines of layers of chitin pressed together to make a single plate, which would then be held together/supplemented by spider silk.

>>16105490

If they have functional division within the species, that is, if they have "castes" of differing shapes, sizes and sentience, ranging from humanoid to full-on monstrous spider, there might even be a subspecies of Spiderkin that's bred specifically for chitin production (like the Spinners suggested further upthread).

If they do have this functional division, I think it would influence their religion. Sort of like Khepri and their worship of Insect Aspect, there would be sentient Spiderkin that worshiped the simplicity and beauty of their nonsentient brethren, and see themselves as their servants instead of vice versa. They'd probably be seen as deviants and heretics in mainstream spider society, though.

Also, ancestral chitin from great warriors or wise sages is preserved and awarded to those within the brood that most embody the qualities said ancestor is famed for. Such chitin is inscribed and engraved with family history and great deeds.

I'd say go with the Nerubian humanoid option, I really liked the way they looked in Warcraft 3. Oh hey, what if they had breed web changes too... Like a broodmother would have green webs, an assassin would have purple, and it's their way of differencing breeds, like how we humans use skin tones.

>>16105490

Holy shit, nice man! I like that idea.

>>16105493
Enforcers, or peacekeepers, I'd say.

How about they hammer metal plates into the chitin itself as shoulderpads, etc.

>>16105516
Dipped in metal to preserve the chitin's form.
Hey, chitin is still organic material, and it will rot over time. Just deny it oxygen by encasing it in metal, and you have it preserved.

OOH... maybe they electropl-
>chitins don't conduct electricity
never mind.

>>16105555
Kind of cool. That's what the Dwarves did to their siege crabs in my last setting.

You know what we need as a sub-race?

Motherfucking trap-door spiders.

Alright, but where would they live? Would they be divided based on brood/subrace or would they just live in one giant city?
Would it be one contiguous web? A web stretching across the treeline of an entire forest? Underground?

>>16105592
The Dwarf/Kobold hybrid of the Spider society.
Digs tunnels and sets up traps like it's nobody's business.
I approve of this.
Also, if these Spiderpeeps ever find out about flight, have them paradrop using web-chutes.
I'm imagining a troop of baloonerspiders, who snipe from the safety of their aerial baloons, and then using spidersilk parachutes or rappel-lines to get into fortresses.
Shit is awesome.

I take it we've all seen Aliens? How about they take over other races cities, like elven forest cities/Human kingdoms, orcish warcamps and start terraforming it into a hive for their prospective Queen/King.

Heck, maybe they bargain with other races for therir dump cities.

what species of spider? massive tarantula men, paranoid brown recluse people, stealthy black widows?

i reckon theyd be good with an Aboriginal style of culture, because as we know Australia is full of the poisonous buggers

as for weapons, theyd coat them in their own poisons of course. and make longbows with their silk

>>16105634
It would be cool if they just had balloons, sky gondolas were a big thing for them or whatever. So the webs extend massively into the sky, tethered to floating craft.

>>16105621
Thinking it would be varied with terrain. On places with verticals (forests and jungles) it would be plausible to colonize the treetops and such. On the desert, though, they would retreat underground, and make labyrinthine tunnels.
Also thinking about their city's architecture, it would make sense for a Spiderpeep megalopolis to be some kind of arcology, and the inside would look a bit like M. C. Escher pics.

>>16105640

I live in Aussie, my front yard is infested with spiders capable of turning my legs necrotic.

I don't give a fuck.

>>16105621

I see spider settlements in forests. A lot of structures in the trees, on the ground and between the canopies, but there'd also be numerous underground warrens and habitats. The different subraces would have dwellings suitable for them, from various pens and barns housing the nonsentient spiderkin to soldier and worker dormitories and resplendent palaces for the Queens and Kings (I see Queen palaces traditionally built on trees and King palaces below the ground, symbolizing their different domains). The public squares would be carefully tended, full of gardens. Webs would be used to great effect, to create walkways, curtains and decorative drapery.

And spiders. There'd be small spiders everywhere, kept as pets or simply tolerated out of a sense of kinship.

>>16105650
OOH! If they developed balooning early, they could use them + spider silk to make scaffolds.
Their cities would expand more vertically than horizontally, and would only be limited to the stratosphere.
A truly successful Spiderpeep civilization would leave massive megastructures in their wake. Excellent dungeon material, right there.

>>16105670
Bear in mind that the adventuring party would only be able to explore a fraction of it. Unless they're spiderkin or climby races too.

>>16105660
Yes, just like humans totally keep monkeys everywhere out of a sense of kinship... oh wait.

I'm picturing a couple of adventurers exploring the 'desolated' ruins of the Spider-people and suddenly entering a giant room with web cocoons everywhere and then a sudden crack echoes around them.

And then a voice says behind them.

"This is where they sleep."

>>16105670
They could construct the balloons with their silk, too.

>>16105687
Or y'know, have flight available to them.

>>16105702
>exploring the ruins of a spider city with a set of pitons and a repaired spidersilk balloon
Mite b cool.

>>16105611
That isn't evil by DnD standards. Evil has to be selfish and want to inflict pain and suffering as a demonstration of power. Stealthiness and ambush tactics are not evil in and of themselves, unless all rogues are now required to be evil aligned. Thri-Kreen have a distinctly predatory theme and don't qualify as evil.

And all your example require that they hunt and eat sentient creatures to be called evil. They have absolutely no reason to prefer sentients over anything else. If just simply hunting was evil, then a good portion of humanity is all of a sudden evil.

>>16105696

Gibraltar.

>>16105687
>>16105702
>>16105715
Grappling hooks, magical disks, etc. There's a lot of things they can use to explore such cities.

Could you imagine the tactics these spider-dudes would use? You woudn't see their army coming.

>>16105731

Half of them buried underground, the other half dropping in from the sky in silk parachutes.

>>16105731
Guerilla warfare, utilizing tunnels like Vietnam tunnel rats for suprise ambushes, jumping from place to place like Naruto on crack. Guerilla in the jungle, or in the concrete jungle they made for themselves, ustilizing baloonspiders for recon, sniping and fortress invasion in case climbing the enemy walls would cause more casualties than needed.

>>16105731
I'd imagine they'd have different kinds of warriors based on subraces. Jumping spiders and ballooners would be shock troops, trapdoor spiders would be ambushers, spinners would be fortifiers and goliath spiders/tarantulas would be tanks.

They should have weapons much like the shock staff the Izarians use in Unreal 2.

Spring loaded, sharp, web covered exotic looking weapons that they can throw.

As for the look, spider/human hybrid versions close to WC Nerubians of varying kind with semi-sentient servant races of huge spiders and spider-men.

>>16105233

While most likely coming from densely forested areas or underground, some sub-races probably hail from mountainous terrain and such too. The Queens most likely hold their own hives, with sub nests scattered around them, in some cases ofcourse hives and nests of different broods grow together creating multi brood cities. These become battlegrounds in the interregnum periods.

Largest of these multi-brood cities would be the seat of the king ofcourse, a huge segmented hive city with districts dedicated to each queen in the nation.

>>16105386


Claws would probably work better, means they cant actually climb on everything but still most things.

The martial art though is good. Probably a more refined form of old hunting techniques. It contains a number of ways to subdue an opponent in three stages.

Grapple, sting, web-wrap.

>>16105621

This practically goes hand in hand with the eating of their dead and their 'waste nothing' attitude to what other civilisations may consider waste products of their food industry.

>>16105731
Aggressive assaults would be handled by jumpers bursting in and out of enemy lines and huge tarantula fighters flinging venom at each other. Defensive tactics would be WEB TRAPS, WEB TRAPS EVERYWHERE.

It'd certainly be terrifying above all else.

I also imagine that structurally their cities, hives, and nests would be largely made up of locally available materials, enhanced more permanent webbing (woven by the specialised Weaver breed on a different diet) and bones.

For smaller settlements they probably maker more use of available structures, like rock formations, trees, old ruins and property purchased from other races. But as the settlement grows, a hive structure begins to grow out of it. Either downward or upward depending on local preference. The ruling elite would ofcourse have their quarters at the extreme end.

The frequent use of bone and chitin in everything would probably creep other races out pretty much. Imagine a massive hive structure hanging from the roof of a giant cave, its cycolopean, inhuman architecture decorated by bone and bonecrafts and suspended over a ruined sunken city, covered in webs and strange seemingly random additions of the same style as the hive above.

You know they should have Wraith(Stargate: Atlantis) like hives, that shit would be awesome.

>>16105794

>The ruling elite would ofcourse have their quarters at the extreme end.

I actually imagine that the elite residence would form the core of the hive, the central nexus from which other structures originate. From there, viziers would be able to oversee the activities of the hive. It also makes sense from a tactical standpoint: You'd have to go through a lot of expendable workers and beasts to get to the viziers and rulers.

>Drow expanding city.
>Accidentally open wall that opens into Spider-folk city.
>Drowbitchnoping.png

By the way, we haven't got a name for these spiderfolks yet. Check these out.
English = Spider | Bulgarian = Payak | French = Araignée
German = Spinne | Greek = Arachne | Italian = Arágna
Swedish = Spindel | Hindi = Makdi | Korean = Geomi
Marathi = Makdi | Indonesian = Laba-laba | Dutch = Spin
Irish = Damhán | Hebrew = Akavish | Croatian = Pauk
Turkish = Örümcek | Chinese = Zhi-zhu | Flemish!* = Spinnekop
Lingala* = Lifofe | Faroese = Eiturkoppur | Danish = Edderkop
Norvegian = Edderkopp | Farsi (Persian) = Ankaboot | Byelorussian = Pavuk
Russian = Pauk | Polish = Pajonk | Portuguese = Aranha
Spanish = Araña | Arabic = Ankabot | Hungarian = Pók
Kannada (India) = Jeda | Telugu (India) = Saleedu | Malayalam (India) = Ettu kaali
Tamil (India) = Ettu kaal poochi | Kiribati** = te Ntakareau | Afrikaans = Spinnekop
Tagalog *** = Gagamba | Haitian Creole = Zaranye | Maori **** = Torohuka
Japanese = Kumo | Romanian = Paianjen | Thai = Mang moom
Pedi (South Africa) = Sohoko | Eebo (Nigeria) = Oodoodo | Korean = komu
Sri Lankan = Mokkara | Punjabi!* = Makkari | Laos = Mang moom

>>16105852
But drow love spiders.

>>16105852

>drow expanding city
>wall opens to spider-folk
>children of lloth
>drows okay with this.jpg

>>16105856
Ettu Kaali (or just of those) or Aragna for me.

>>16105858
Oh no, don't go there.

>>16105856
Ettukaals sounds good.

Shokohul?

>>16105856
I prefer the idea of the name being related to the language of the Spiders, and as such being un-pronounceable by all but the most fluent of humans.

>>16105852
>>16105861

>Drown expand
>Dig into webbed tunnels
>"Children of Lloth! Hurray"
>Get stuck in web
>Get cocooned and abducted
>Get diplomatic incident when priestess is eaten
>"Bitch shouldn't have stuck her ass to the Brood Mother's dinner table if the bitch didn't want to get eaten."

>>16105884

>spiders revered as gods
>probably don't eat followers to begin with
>probably eat followers later
>drow vore porn.tiff

>>16105856

I can see a lot of these names be useful for naming cities and fiefdoms in the Spider Kingdom. Etakaal, the capitol. Makdi, a northern settlement known for its fine warrior breeds. Pahvuk, an ancient desert hive, mostly depopulated by a devastating war of succession. Ankabaad, a trader city where the spiderfolk recieve foreign ambassadors. Et cetera.

>>16105877
Yeah, but Ettukaal could be their colloquial term, which didn't involve the dance-speak.
We might as well go all the way and have them refer to humans as 'rendukaal' then.

How about the Knox is as close as other races can get to pronouncing it in Common? The Nox, Knox or something.

>Inseciod
No Capcha, spider-people are not insects.

>ctrl+F
>no "happy" or "talking"

I'd show you a picture of the Giant Happy Talking Spiders from Exile III - THE BEST SPIDERS EVER - but Windows 7 wants to pitch a compability fit over the game so fuck it.

>>16105891

The trappers would most likely not give two fucks about what the prey says or does, unless it can convince them (probably requiring knowledge of the spider language) that they can offer them something worth stealing from the hive for.

The creature caught in the web is in all likelyhood already considered food. And with the extreme loyalty bred into the spider-folk bribing them is pretty hard.

>>16105856

Italian = Arágna

What the fuck?

Spider in italian is translated as "Ragno", hell we don't even use accents like that (we only use them on the word's final letter).

>>16105916
How about you just don't put whatever fetish for vore porn you have into this?

I'd say the Trappers would be smarter than that, basically being scouts and ambush units they'd probably ask what the fuck a biped is doing in their motherfucking web.

">I'msickofthesemotherfuckinghumansinmymotherfuckinghive.png

http://www.earthlife.net/chelicerata/s-man.html
Interesting myths in that page. Such as the Japanese Spider-God being a tactical genius.
CREEEEEEEED

On the note of language.

Running with the idea that tap-dancing and body language are an active part of their speech I would suggest this influences the written language too.

The language itself is made up of signs which similar to Chinese sometimes make up a whole word, other times just sounds, it is however only half the writing.

Without a spider present to do the tapping and moving they instead include addative signs around a cymbol to in text emulate the movements.

The end result is a series of complex signs, each surrounded by a circle of deceptively simple signs that indicate the 'speaker's' pose and movements. These added signs turn a vague and generalised symbol into an actual word or part of a phrase.

In longer messages the writing tries to take account the peoples near 360 degree field of vision, meaning that rather than writing short lines down a page they instead write on long scrolls with long lines of text spanning from the far left to the far right.

In other words, a spider scroll is a rigid (probably web based) fabric. Its vertical dimensions are usually rather small, but the horizontal is far far longer.

Have them eat humans or don't. It's not important. Just don't make it fetishy.

They'll have to farm things anyway. If they're pure carnivores then they'll have to farm some kind of prey species. If they are omnivores, what else do they eat? Remember a lot of spiders will eat other spiders.

>>16105940

If you're doing castes, the portia spider is an actual tactical genius. It has extremely well developed predatory abilities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portia_%28genus%29

Let's talk about these non-sentient servants they use. Large spiders to transport and provide silk and what have you is fine, but what else can we think of? I'm imagining groups of knee-high jumping spiders that they release in packs, like war dogs, to soften up enemy ranks and colossal Goliath spiders that march right into enemy formations.
>>16105926
>eating people=vore hurr
Spiders don't even 'eat' people that way.

>>16105926

How about you shut the fuck up and stop accusing me of putting fetishes I dont have into this.

>>16105936

If its a commonly known biped type, like a neighbouring civilisation. But if some lesser known creature gets stuck there then the settlements food quota may well be more important. The point being that a talking dinner, is probably still dinner.

>>16105946
To clarify:
>Portias often hunt in ways that seem intelligent. Their favorite prey appears to be web-building spiders between 10% and 200% of the Portia’s size. Portias look rather like leaf detritus caught in a web, and this is often enough to fool web-building spiders, which have poor eyesight. When stalking web-building spiders, Portias try to make different patterns of vibrations in the web that aggressively mimic the struggle of a trapped insect or the courtship signals of a male spider, repeating any pattern that induces the intended prey to move towards the Portia. Portia fimbriata has been observed to perform vibratory behavior for three days until the victim decided to investigate. They time invasions of webs to coincide with light breezes that blur the vibrations their approach causes in the target's web; and they back off if the intended victim responds belligerently. Portias that retreat may approach along an overhanging twig or rock, descend down a silk thread and kill the prey. Other jumping spiders take detours, but Portia is unusual in its readiness to use long detours that break visual contact.

>>16105954
>Laboratory studies show that Portia learns very quickly how to overcome web-building spiders that neither it nor its evolutionary ancestors would have met in the wild. Portia’s accurate visual recognition of potential prey is an important part of its hunting tactics. For example in one part of the Philippines local Portia spiders attack from the rear against the very dangerous spitting spiders, which themselves hunt jumping spiders. This appears to be an instinctive behavior, as laboratory-reared Portias of this species do this the first time they encounter a spitting spider. On the other hand they will use a head-on approach against spitting spiders that are carrying eggs. However, experiments that pitted Portias against "convincing" artificial spiders with arbitrary but consistent behavior patterns showed that Portia’s instinctive tactics are only starting points for a trial-and-error approach from which these spiders learn very quickly. Nonetheless, they seem to be relatively slow "thinkers", as they solve tactical problems by using brains vastly smaller than mammalian predators'. Against other jumping spiders, which also have excellent vision, Portias may mimic fragments of leaf litter detritus. When close to biting range, Portias use different combat tactics against different prey spiders. On the other hand they simply stalk and rush unarmed prey such as flies, and also capture prey by means of sticky webs.

Their main limitation is the size of their brains. A human-sized Portia would be terrifying - I'd suggest this be a caste military leaders and assassins are drawn from.

>>16105951
They need to farm. There's no way around that. They need reliable and sustained food production with a considerable surplus. A society without that cannot advance to the levels we're talking about. Even Mind Flayers farm slave populations, and they can only eat living brains.

>>16105965
If they are omnivores, why don't we let them harvest fungi from decaying bodies? Since they have a 'waste not' policy, anything that they can't eat that they can't turn into equipment (example: poisonous meat) they would leave to rot in special 'shroom chamber' or stuff like that. They cultivate a type of fungi that would either be an antidote to the poison, or eliminate poison in the meat. Thusly treated, the Spiderfolks could eat the meat and the fungi at once without getting sick.

Maybe the Spider-folk and Drow are pretty close, not interracial relationships close but they'd value drow relationships over ones with other races?

>>16105985
That sounds like an idea. They could also farm a stable population of giant flies by feeding them on rotting surplus. Maybe they do this in huge chambers at the very bottom levels of their hive.

>>16105954
>When stalking web-building spiders, Portias try to make different patterns of vibrations in the web that aggressively mimic the struggle of a trapped insect or the courtship signals of a male spider, repeating any pattern that induces the intended prey to move towards the Portia.
>Portia fimbriata has been observed to perform vibratory behavior for three days until the victim decided to investigate. >Portias that retreat may approach along an overhanging twig or rock, descend down a silk thread and kill the prey.
Fairly sadistic.

>>16105988
I think that'd be likely, if only because the Drow would probably be somewhat better disposed to the spiders than they are to everything else.

The spiders might sell captured humanoids in their webs to the Drow as slaves.

>>16105954
>>16105959

Yes, those are the ones that inspired my take on the 'Jump-troop' elite units. I wouldn't necessarily limit them to that role only, it is just what that sub-race is used for in warfare.

>>16105965
>>16105985

Thats been covered. They are carnivours but they save some captured creatures as cattle for breeding more food. (This has probably given rise to some other farming for the sake of supplying their cattle sure)

The fly farming is an interesting addition though.

can humans be friends with them?

The flies are treated like cereal.

So you get Mosquito Flakes in the morning.

How about that?

>>16106008
The fly farming could work on the basis that they just have these huge chambers that they seed with some giant fly eggs. They lay a web on the top of this chamber.

Then, anything rotting they can't eat they throw down there. The flies breed in the rotting meat and organic matter like, uh, flies. Once the top-web is clustered with dead flies, they lay another one over it and pull the filled one out.

It also makes it a nightmare to scale their citadels from the inside - you have to fight your way through the clustering dire flies, in darkness, and past the web.

-

On the portias, I'd make them at least commanders of the jumping spider groups. There are a lot of types of jumping spiders, but portias incredible tactical intelligence makes them seem like a leader caste or elite group to me. They'd also be excellent infiltrators, spies and assassins.

Im not so sure about the caste system. At least not as a locked one. The queens probably practice some sort of plan economy. That is to say, if more of the webbers are needed the brood mothers are encouraged to mate with more of them leading to more webber broods.

>>16106028

Sure, been my goal all along anyway, to have a potentially friendly potentially playable non-human civilisation.

>>16106028
I don't see why not? I'm sure they'd have diplomats as any other race. I'm not sure what alignment we'd be labeling them as - it seems to be emerging as Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil.

>>16106041
I kind of like it, because there are so many subspecies of spider to draw upon that this is a nice way of incorporating their traits without amalgamating them into a single type. Nothing wrong with a varied caste system though.

>>16106041

In times of war the leaders set a quota of warriors that have to be submitted from every section of the hive, it is set to ensure that no vital task is left undone but that enough warriors are drafted to fight the war. These drafts go out to every caste/station or whatever, and it is the individual's choice to join or not, but with the intense loyalty harboured by most of the population it is very rarely hard to fill the quota.

When a brood is born all the new young are inspected and assigned to where they will be of most use (defective ones are probably eaten on the spot), and if they can prove they can be of better use to a hive in another role later in life they may well be allowed to change caste even.

Or as in the case of wartime drafts. Any and all are welcome to die for the hive.

I only stress this because I'd like to see the race viable as individuals (perhaps even PCs) as well as a civilisation.

Been having trouble posting this, any idea what 'Abnormal reply' means?

>>16105946
well, Ants Kinda "farm" plant lice's honey, so why wouldn't an advanced and civilized race of spiders do the same? Of course, I imagine that the Plant lice wouldn't be sentient.

>>16106061
That's what I see them farming. Nonsapient insect species.

>>16100873

An/on here

That is simply not true, they have those eyes for amazing depth perception.
Far, far better than ours in the case of Jumpers.
But the typical ambush spider and tarantula lacks amazing eyesight.

>>16106060
They'll need to have a soldier corps for defense anyway. This is especially vital in any kind of D&D world, and even more vital if they inhabit the Underdark even a little bit.

So that sounds alright, but I don't think it should be compromised just to make them a PC race. We can easily come up with five or six subraces available to them.

Of course, I don't think they'll be very suitable for PCs if we give them the abilities they should have, so I'm kind of against them being a PC race anyway. I want spiders with scaling poison, and insane jumps, amazing senses and powerful webbing. Making them a viable PC means scaling all that shit down, and I don't want that.

Now that I think about it, would they have mounts? I mean, sure, they are most likely faster than a human being, but they will still lose stamina and become exhausted, so a mount wouldn't be completly impossible.
However, I imagine that only the higher ups, like Queens, Kings and maybe Generals would have access to mounts.

>>16106104
I think perhaps just vastly larger, but dumb, spiders might be as mounts. Or maybe web/chitin golems in spider-form.

>>16106104

Why should they have mounts?

Even native americans didn't have them, they just had very fast runners.

>>16106082

Maybe we could stat up a particular subrace of spiderfolk for a PC race? Like an "ambassador" or a "scout" type, a subrace suitable for interaction with the outside world, investigating potential threats, making alliances, learning about other sentients. The higher-end elite spiders would be non-PC, as well as the nonsentient (or low-sentient) "spiders of burden".

>>16106203

There weren't any suitable animals to tame for mounts in Central and North America.

>>16106233
Seems sensible, I suppose.

>>16106041

This makes for an interesting point about their culture. If the nonsentient beasts that you're using for work and farming are your brothers and sisters (literally, since you were all born of the same broodmother) I think it would result in a system of ethics that focuses on kinship and life, rather than sentience, as the basis for rights. Spiderfolk wouldn't particularly care whether another race was sentient or not, but they would care about how they treat life around them.

So what about their stats in 3.5e? I'm eager to test these out.

>>16106263
I don't think that's what he was saying, dude, though that does remind me of the Khepri from Perdido Street Station.

>>16106082

You can use them in anyway you want, im not even assuming DnD (because fuck DnD (though the idea works fine in DnD too so whatever you feel like man)).

But having just ANOTHER strict hive race with a rigid caste system is just fucking boring.

A core principle has (regardless of weather you want them playable or not) that they are all individuals, and potentially creatures you can make friends with.

The rigid 'never think for yourself' caste system doesnt exactly suite that.

More that's why my previously described caste system with a few fixed castes and merit based transfer between the non fixed ones works in favour of the concept.

It keeps a caste system, it is pragmatic, and works well with the hardcore loyalty and a 'to die and be eaten is a great honour' mentality.

>>16106263
But yeah, other sentients may view them as 'evil' or 'creepy', because they eat their own kin and use their ancestor's chitin as armor... so Spiderfolks' 'regard for life' is different to what the Druids preach.

>not riding Drow into battle.
>laughingdrider.pmg

>>16106282
You can have a caste system of individuals without having transfer between castes. In fact, with different racial capabilities it is arguably necessary. No one is proposing a hive mind, or a reduction of individuality. That doesn't conflict with caste system, which can be respectful of individual liberty within divisions while maintaining divisions.

>More that's why my previously described caste system with a few fixed castes and merit based transfer between the non fixed ones works in favour of the concept.
That sounds totally fine, and no-one disagreed with it, so calm down.

>>16106310
>>not riding Drow into battle.
>laughingdrider.pmg
You might have gotten that the wrong way around.

>>16106311

My bad my bad. I just like the idea of using the 'worker caste' for more than working. Perhaps even promoting worker conscripts who do exceptionally well in battle to other castes.

Or just handing them over to a brood mother for breeding and eating to strengthen the whole, or even lay the foundation for a new specialised subrace.

I wouldnt put selective breeding and even a rudimentary fantasy equivalent of genetic science past the spiders.

Perhaps some kind of seer that brood mothers pay a tribute of their latest brood to, who in return can tell her where her brood is headed genetically, though in a more mystical sense.

Add to this, the ability for brood mothers to take aspects and traits from mates they eat and add to their own gene-stock.

For example, great heroes who die in battle are brought back, not because being eaten is a form of honorary burial rite. But also because the brood mother elected to eat the fallen hero may be able to pass on just a little of his strength to her young.

>>16106334
Maybe. Hobgoblins have done the genetic thing by canon, with a bunch of magically specialized genetic mutants and two whole species spawned from their own genes.

For the caste thing, I'd suggest having separate ranks of merit and purpose. Your purpose never changes, but at the top rank or top two ranks of merit you are effectively a 'noble' and have different duties anyway.

>>16106282
Meritocracy and individualism would seem to work best in a spider-based society. Spiders themselves are largely individualistic predators; having them go all hive-mind is pretty weird.

Perhaps our spider-folk took a John Locke approach to society WAAAY back when, in which individuals form a social contract to protect their shit, using the king/queen system to enforce their stuff?

The meritorcratic stuff and devotion to given orders was merely a political/philosophical trend which caught on and stuck, so to speak.

>>16106358
I think something like that is probably the best idea. Have a social contract, a ruler and a parliament with some degree of power.

>>16106344

As long as it accounts for the practice to conscript other 'purpose' breeds for warfare in times of need. It would make little sense to reserve all your work force and maybe loose the war than to use some of them as foot soldiers in that war. Especially since the baseline of these creatures appears to be relatively more powerful than other sentients.

The question of magic.

The previously discussed 'waste nothing' mentality would seem to have given rise to necromancy, though it is not considered evil in any way.

How is necromancy taught? Is it a tool for the rulers? Is it something any caste and purpose individual can have access too once they are of a high enough rank?

What other schools of magic has come into the spider kingdoms?

Personally i'd like to add the enigmatic seer caste to the list. Diviners and genetic foretellers they are an all male collection of nobles, on the side of the chain of command. While not powerful in the sense that they have much pull politically they simply exist on the tribute given to them by the brood mothers and the queens.

When called upon they feed on a sample of a new brood in order to divine what the brood mother will produce in the future and what she can do (or rather eat) to improve her offspring (and thus her status).

Every so often, as a new brood is born the Seers approach a brood mother and barter with her (usually offering free services, or in some cases perhaps the right to eat one of them when they die.) for one of her young. Invariably they want a specific one. One wich usually would have been eaten by the Mother's court for being 'defective' at some point during its examination.

The Seers pay handsomely for the Mother's trash and take the young one with them, shaping it as it grows into one of them and unlocking its gene-seer powers.

>>16106104
>>16106114
I think for war mounts they would depend on a goliath spider, and cling to it like broodlings to a wolf spider mother.

>>16106427
For someone who isn't a vore fetishist you sure have an obsession with eating things.

>>16106358
Hm.

Libertarian, Anarcho-capitalist Spiders?

>>16106427
I like the idea of the defective seers but I'm not a fan of them being all-male nor of this eating-to-improve thing, necessarily. I like the prophecy by blood, that's cool, just not the Kroot-like level of genetic manipulation or the fixation on the mother eating to improve the brood in a specific way.

Especially if we're going to incorporate necromancy, in which cases great heroes can simply be bound as spirits in immortal frames and don't need to be regurgitated. Necromancy should be available to all if we're going for a meritocratic, social contract-based caste system. The caste system won't be overly repressive in this setup.

So necromancer and seer can be alternate ranks of 'purpose' that can be achieved, either by attending a necromantic school, demonstrating your prowess or by being picked to join the seers. Maybe everyone knows a little bit of necromantic magic.

Illusion and enchantment seem appropriate as well.

>>16106477
>Anarcho-capitalist
I think we can have them competing within their own hive, but they aren't going to be anarchic.

Archive this shit on suptg.

>>16106427
>>16106489
Thinking about it, here's what I'd propose for the seers:

First off, their origins are mysterious. Second of all, they are all defectives in some way or another. Thirdly, that they always prophesy by vampirism - they drink blood in return for visions of the giver. So they have a sort of feared and reviled, but valued, status. The only food they receive is what they consume when people come to them for visions - a popular seer will be fat and bloated, one with unreliable visions might be a lean and hungry sort. Urban myths of a sinister nature will be common, and can even be true if you like.

A certain percentage of brood stock (perhaps defective stock only) is given to the seers from each brood, some of which they consume for the purposes of divination and (occasionally) they rear as their own to join the ranks of the seers.

I kind of suggest making them adapted to darkness, because IIRC albino spiders have a weird translucent look and if we exaggerate that you get the awesome image of going to see a seer, giving some of your blood, them drinking it and then literally seeing your own blood flow through their colorless body as they recount their oracular vision.

>>16106489

So necromantic ancestor veneration instead. The highest award for heroism and all that is to be maintained as an intelligent or semi intelligent undead.

The motivation for the all male part is just that I imagine women would be in general very limited.

Brood mothers would in order to maintain stable population levels and to keep themselves in power make sure that there aren't too many available fertile women.

You could ofcourse easily add infertile women to the Gene-seer ranks.

On the note of the society's structure. From what it looks like from earlier posts it is mostly divided into a pyramid.

Like so:

Queen
/ \
Brood Brood
Mother Mother
/ / \ \
Further sub mothers.

This pyramid would be extended as needed and each entity ofcourse would provide servants as well as an occasional new mother.

The queens remain in power by teaching their children loyalty to them. And to stop queens from making war on eachother and ruining the entire civilisation they elect kings somehow.

New brood clans like these are created when a queen dies and the X number of mothers next in line cant agree to a successor. Either it results in a diplomatic split, or war until only one is still standing (the others killed, forced into submission or driven out).

Perhaps it is the Seer caste that remains neutral and selects the kings, raising them outside the Queen pyramids, maybe even keeping the king's mother secret.

>>16106562
Man, I thought you didn't want a repressive system?

Okay, I don't like the idea of gender repression so I'd propose either a small percentage of women become brood mothers or the species is as a whole mostly infertile on the female side - and perhaps throw in some hints of this being engineered. Basically like how it was in Brave New World. Small number of fertile women, ovaries taxed to produce thousands of offspring.

Let's have some freedom of thought. None of this, "The queens remain in power by teaching their children loyalty to them," or, "to keep themselves in power," please. Let's have the society have leaders who genuinely benefit it or most seek or pretend to benefit it to remain in power. I like the idea of a social contract, which typically entails a supreme ruler - perhaps this should be an undead king, who symbolically marries successive brood mothers as queens and picks out mates for them too. He is advised by a parliament of living spiders. But, it's a mutually contract. There are obligations both ways.

>>16106534

This is good. In other words when a mother shits out an albino she knows they'll come knocking soon if they arent already there bartering with her.

I have a hard time seeing a bloated spider though. And i'd imagine that they wouldnt sustain themselves only on their seer fuel. Instead they perhaps starve themselves before such a session. And in between they leech tribute from the nobles (who compete with gifts on who gets the best seers).

>>16106600
Well, they also eat defective infants who aren't suited for their purposes.

>>16106583

What I argued for earlier was a system where what you were born to do wasn't set in stone. Not nessesarily repressive but, because of their invaluable position the queens must have a lot of power, and they teach loyalty to the mothers and the throne as a substitute for solidarity.

But this need not be a problem.

At some point in ages past you simply introduce a split. Perhaps the original system was based on the Queen pyramid but during an interregnum one of the new clans decided they wanted nothing to do with it. After withdrawing from the rest of the warring queens this queen set up a second Spider civilisation under a new system. That queen may be long gone (or kept around as a spider-lich or some such) but the second spiderkingdom lives on. Occasionally trading or intermarrying with the old state, but maintaining the distance.

>>16106600
They wouldn't so much be bloated. They'd just be big. Their chamber would be filled to the brink with shed chitin though.

>>16106665
That's much better. They'd be complete nightmare fuel for spider kids, too. All the monsters people chide their children with, could be replaced by these horrible seers.

Hopefully I didn't find this discussion too late.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8302535.stm

Here. Something interesting I found a while ago.

>>16106663
Fair enough. No reason why there can't be multiple societies. So we have a nation of broodmother-ruled cities and a broodmother queen, and one ruled by a necromantic spider king.

>>16106695
Haha, from there I ran into an article on fossilized spider silk in amber.

Because of this, could we possibly give amber a special significance to our spiderfolk? Bugs on display? "Look, it looks kinda like J'hol!"

>>16106705
Works for me.

>>16106741
What are you thinking of?

>>16106802
Delicately spun webbing surrounding polished amber to form a necklace. Inside each gem is a spider, representing one of the Queens.

The necklace is worn by the King Elect, as a symbol of his power. It is passed down from generation to generation, and has done so for thousands of years.

For a caste system why not have it like the Nerubians?

It's like feudalism to the extreme with castes being your subspecies.

The Nerubian King is highest of them all his caste are the aristocrats of the spider people. He's in charge over the queens which have their own kingdom/fiefdom which if small enough they share power with the aristocrats if large enough they hold power alone with the aristocrats as advisers. Then the priests, seers, mages the Vizer caste are in some instances either directly below the aristocrats or on same footing. Either way they do priestly things, and the like for the upper castes.

The lower castes are the workers, warriors, seers (that aren't Vizers), trappers...etc. Each do their special job and never deviate. However in the lower castes it's comes down to pure talent vs genetics. If you just happen to be good at fighting you'll join the warrior caste...etc.

The entire society was more an intellectual society with vast libraries open to any castes. It was more like a well oiled machine, everyone was equally important as they're all just one cog in the machine. They were also artisans everything was decorated in vast colors and designs.

For food? They had traps for catching fresh wild game, and probably farms raising giant rats. Rats are plentiful, they grow real fast, have loads of litters, able to survive off of just about anything. They're the perfect food source really. The farmers probably feed the rats silk, which is just protein. Then the farmers wrap them up when the time is right, and ship them off to the populace.

>>16098055
Fuck, I forgot about those guys. They're awesome.

>>enslave the weak

Eclipse Phase has the Iktomi, wich are/were highly advanced spideroids. Every hitherto find and encounter with the Iktomi civilization have been in the form of ruins and artifacts though, and all evidence point to the Iktomi having been driven extinct by [ARTICLE REDACTED]

>>16107022
Rat farms sound like a good addition to the fly farms.

>>16107022

The caste system loosely discussed earlier in the thread suite the original vision much better than a copy of the Nerubian system does. Especially since it aims to maintain a less strict caste system. I for one find the current system to be far more interesting for a relatively pragmatic and (at least in some areas) free thinking people.

>>16106705

Exactly. Though the queens are the main political power in the old kingdom, they still elect kings. Probably via the priesthood (that ensures neutrality to prevent further warring between the brood-clans).

Perhaps the dead king of the Split Kindom, is one such king who after his death, instead of letting everything slip into the traditional violent interregnum proposed to anyone who cared to leave with him and build a new, improved society under his rule.

>>16107022
Considering how easy it is to maintain a rat farm, you could turn the fly farm into a 'delicacy' farm. Simply feed the maggots Giant Dire Rat corpses.

Hell, think of the players faces when they come across a bunch of giant rat corpses squirming with foot long maggots. And then from above, they hear a deep, droning buzz.

How would the whole meritocratic mindset clash with the ancestor worship(and the attendant pressure to do what your father and your father's father did)?

>>16107281
That's part of the motivation for insisting on a living parliament to advise the eternal king. It's important to prevent the old always winning out over the new. Plus, it's not like everyone is going to get brought back - only very exceptional people will return as sapient undead (perhaps criminals can return as nonsapient ones?).

>>16107302
Fair enough. Although I was under the impression that the ancestor worship involved more than necromancy(what with the chitin and all)
I suppose bringing back a respected member of society as a mindless undead would be a grievous offense to their memory and relatives. A brood looking to provoke a war would sneak into a tomb and bring back their greatest warrior as a mindless slave.
>use satingo
Precisely.

>>16107262
I can't imagine kings would regularly be brought back so if you want to enforce the split have him be illegally raised with his followers.

>>16107329
It does, yeah but it's a lot easier to take a new course of action when your great-grandfather isn't literally breathing down your neck. The society is probably quite conservative in general, but not to the complete detriment of advance. If you want to mix it up have the faction with the undead ruler (as breakaways) be, ironically, more progressive.

>>16107356
"Maybe you should try something different?"
'Shut up, grandpa, I don't need your shit.'

>recognise fectnam

Lichtenauer?

>>16107427
Given that for your grandpa to be a sapient undead he'd have to have been a great hero or markedly exceptional in whatever caste he was in, maybe not quite so direct. More of an, "...but ALSO, we could do this NEW thing."

Another thing that could be instituted is a control on even the sapient undead by living necromancers.

>>16107453
I was actually leaning the other way. I'd say the family and fans of an individual would, by and large, ask that he only be called back for counsel or extreme occasions, to allow him peace in death, whereas the necromancers want to restore them proper. Raising somebody permanently and without sapience would be the worst fate you could inflict on them.

>>16107453
Well, this idea interests me to the point that I feel like writing about it. Going through the thread, should I just write about a day in the society of [INSERT SPIDER RACE HERE] from a drones perspective, or should I focus on wartime/diplomatic events?

>>16107480
That's why I specified:
>sapient undead
This does play in to how religious they are and what gods they worship though.

>>16107490
Do whatever you want, man. I've been contributing to this for a while, and I think I'll make these one of the races in my next campaign, but I'll obviously adjust it to fit and change elements. So write about these guys as you want them to be.

>>16107356

The queen dominated Elective kingdome is very traditional owing to the queens making sure their young have strong ties of loyalty to their mothers and the throne.

The new King (the dead one) and his followers created a much more liberal society that instead of indoctrinating a wanna be hive-race like loyalty focuses more on the meritocratic aspects and the individualism inherent in their ancestors (proto-spiderfolk being more like normal spiders, that is to say loners).

As for necromancy, it is probably used for making servitors and cannon fodder from food and perhaps reusing the fallen soldiery (what better honour than dying for your King/queen twice?).

The true ressurection (as intelligent undead) is reserved for the true heroes, the greatest paragons of the spider kingdoms.

Most are probably left to die or re-used as material for the finest gear. Without the stigma on necromancy such grave thefts discussed previously would probably be more provocative because they are stealing and shitting on an ancestor, rather than the fact that they raised him.

Its just normal grave robbery of important people, only you have the corpse walk out on its own.

>>16107521
Alright, I'll write something assuming this thread will be arrive. Have we decided on a race name yet?

>female dominant houses following traditional
>breakaway meritocracy with a magic-using king
So they're basically drow, but spiders. I'mma just replace Drow with these guys.

>>16107556
I don't think so. Closest we came was Ettu Kaali or Ettukaals.

>>16107583
Well, they're not ALWAYS EVIL FOREVER like the drow.

>>16107592
I know, but I don't use races in that kind of morality anyway. They are better than Drow, no doubt. Can do more shit with them. Weirder. More fantastical.

>>16107590
That's the best pronunciation you can do without eight legs, a hard carapace to tap on and a spider's mouth, anyway.

>>16107590

Personally i'd prefer to have it closer to Akavish or Makkari, if we're taking hints from the different words for spider posted earlier.

On a related note I think it'd benefit from being farther away (in how it sounds) from ettercap.

>>16107590
Guess I'm sticking with Ettukaals. Alright, I'll have fun writing it from an adventurers point of view. Anyone mind making a 1d4chan page on this topic? It's a bugger to read through this thread for every minute detail.

Bumping for awesome spiders.

What would be the size range for these guys? How big would the Queens be compared to, say, the warriors or the workers?

>>16107634
I'm down with Makkari. Akavish sounds like a good name for a city or their language.

What would their relation with other peoples and races be? Obviously their silk would be in huge demand, but beyond that, I'm drawing a blank.
Well, I also suppose the first outlander to suggest buying chitin weaponry/armour would find themselves skewered and wrapped.

>>16107665
Why? They're not idiots. I'm sure families with no sense of honour or chitin without any history behind it could be sold, but it'd be at premium price due to the connotations.

They'd make good slavers, and might be in demand as such and as bounty hunters. If they breed soldiers for war then in times of peace there could well be a surplus, which might give rise to mercenaries and adventurers willing to hire out their services.

If necromancy is a powerful tradition, then obviously they have expertise in that area they can trade on. Undead spellcasters or necromancers might pay to access the archives of the race.

People might journey to consult with their reclusive, vampiric seers.

>>16107661
I figure they vary quite a bit, but your average worker might be a bit smaller than a human, height-wise and your hunting spider/soldier might be about the size of a horse. Queens should be very large, I suppose.

>>16107625

Speaking of this, considering the problems for other sentients to learn their language (no two legger tap-dances like a spider, ever) perhaps they devised a 'trade talk'. A slow and ineffective version of their spoken speech with excessive and redundant extra words and pronunciations thrown in to explain and refer to words that cant be spoken without the body language component.

It is considered a crude dumbed down version of their language, almost as Two-Legs use big and over clear words to talk to 'dumb' creatures. In truth they may as well just learn the in setting (or local) equivalent of common. But the language is still there as a bridge over an otherwise difficult gap.

>>16107634
>>16107634
They've got different roots, though. Ettercap comes from 'poison head', whereas ettu kaal just means 'eight legs'.
I do see what you mean, though.

>main spider queendom, traditional

Etakaal

>Breakaway kingdom ruled by the Eternal King

Pahvuk

>>16107662
they sell their highly powerful toxins to other races? maybe assassins?

just skimmed over this thread and wanted to say,

Keep up the good work, /tg/

>>16107706
Can you give a sample conversation on what you mean?

Like, say a group of adventurers come across/ambushed by these guys. How exactly would the conversation play out with the translator?

>>16107719
I knew someone was going to capitalise Eternal King at some point. I'm actually unsure of that term. If the king set up a liberal breakaway faction, then he probably doesn't take on a title indicating personal importance.

Anyway, I prefer Makkari and I think that'd be a good name for the race as a whole. I have no problem with your proposed name for the breakaway faction. I think Ettukaal might actually be a good name for the king (like, his actual name, not a title).

>>16107735
Not the guy who posted that, but I like the idea that the dance is a way to communicate an abstract concept or expression where words fail.
For example, after they stop the adventurers and ask them what they're doing, the translator would explain while also performing the dance of supplication to show he means no harm. Things that would be communicated among other races by tone.

>>16107735
I'd say just break it down into really simple descriptors. Like... big long heavy sharp flat point. The most basic descriptor you can think of, but as many as you like.

>>16107662

They both mean spider, Akavish is hebrew and the other i cant remember. At least that's what the following post claims.

>>16105856
---
>>16107661

The baseline breed would probably be quite large since they are based visually on WC's Nerubians, little larger than humans, much larger if you consider leg-span.

The mother breed (most likely specially bred females designed to have larger broods (are other females infertile or just innefficient (the queens in the old kingdom would probably limit them either way) or what did we settle on?)) Would be slightly larger bodied than the standard but smaller legs. (Queens are just the dominant mother in a clan)

The Spinner brood are likely somewhat smaller, but have huge bodies and their legs are extended to give better web climbing ability.

The jumper brood would probably be compacted, smaller in frame but much stronger and strurdier than the norm with built in camouflage and larger front eyes.

Regardless they grow as they get older, (which brings up the question of lifespan) and grow even more on a sturdy diet meaning that wealthy and old individuals are several sizes larger than their standard breed.

Other than that i have no idea.

>>16107726
Not a bad idea, especially if we have those tacticool genius portia breeds.

>>16107792
We didn't settle on anything. Infertile or inefficient, it doesn't make much difference. We don't even need to clarify really.

Not sure about lifespan. We probably want to vary it across classes. I'd say all in all they might do with being slightly short lifespanned than humans, with certain breeds lasting much longer (queens, seers). Maybe around 60 years for a worker, 50 for a soldier?

>>16107735

The original language of the race uses some generic words that are specified by their movements, taps and klicks etc. in other words body language has an active part of speech for the spiders, unlike other races (like us) where it is very important but passive in comparison.

It is the same in the written language where the overly general symbols have added markings around them to 'represent' the speakers movements.

The trade speak tries to, in order to allow races without the capability to do the body language part, use more words and terms in speech to compensate for the specifying movements.

Instead of saying "We diddnt take your loved ones, it was the orcs." with some words and a few dance stepps, they have to go: "It/subject (belonging) family, abducted by 'two-legs' painted the colour of surface trees in summer." or something like that.

>>16107816
Speaking of which, do we have a rank and file soldier breed? I've only seen the shock trooper jumping spiders and the tactical genius portia spiders.

>>16107887
portias are jumping spiders, so either the latter is a subset of the former or all the jumping spiders are those ones

Soldiers could be Archaeidae?

>>16107887
>>16107816

Perhaps add a huge 'tank' breed?

Most rank and file are drawn from the base breed and conscripted in time of war. Ofcourse every settlement maintains a garrison of permanently armed base troops as reserves, and some shock troop leapers as scouts, commandos, guerrilas, assassins, and whatever else they do.

Perhaps most settlements have a contingent of 'Tank' type officers while the larger (or more important ones) have portia breeds in their standard garrison.

I imagine the portia are relatively rare, and are highly sought after for special operations and such. Many invariably find their way into leadership within the military, some on the other hand may well end up as hunter/farmers preferring a civilian lifestyle but maintaining use of their special skills.

There were also mentions of a balloon breed, though that may well just be the webber/engineer breed.

I'd also like to propose that their lifespan can vary alot. Any of them can with a good diet and healty lifestyle probably renforced by their considerable alchemical skills live to be over a hundred. But that in most cases at least the baseline breed usually dies off around 50-65 (the rough area someone mentioned).

Mothers and seers (and perhaps the protia aswell) should be an exception, having a standard closer to 80 or so for the Mothers, and the Seers, thanks to their 'defects' (mutations) live indefinitely but often succumb to strange degenerative conditions that spring from their defects.

If they had groups of diving bell spiders, they would also have an advantage underwater.
Granted, there's no way you could scale a diving bell up to the sizes we're talking about, but magic, shit, explain, etc.

>>16108002
We could make the diving bell spiders an aquatic variant of the webbers, who returned to land and developed the art of crafting silk balloons.

>>16107998

Tank breeds, engineer breeds, assault breeds...

You know what this makes me think of? Spider Quest. In the style of Ironhearts, a tactical game where each player selects a spider type and then fights in skirmishes.

>>16108002
>>16108013

It is quite possible that these presented main breeds have further sub-species, bred to be even more specialised. (For example the Portia may be a subrace of the leaper breed.)

>>16108002
>>16108013
Groups of organised, large diving bell manspiders would actually be really terrifying. Like, you see a bunch of rapidly approaching ripples and suddenly your ship's getting boarded from every possible angle by absurdly good climbers.

A giant thread about spider people and no one mentions Burning Wheel?

That game has some seriously cool giant spiders.

>>16107998
I think the real 'tanks' probably fit better as a dumb breed, maybe even a nonsapient breed, and not as an officer group. We could do with a generic soldier baseline though. I'd suggest a tarantula type, but they are typically large and so better fit the tank role.

I think perhaps crab spiders could be a generic, more resilient soldier breed? They are predatory spiders who don't invest in webs, but aren't trapdoor-makers or jumping spiders either. They're good at waiting, which I suppose fits for a garrison.

>>Are their women fuckable?

Just 6 posts and this comes up. Never change, /tg/

>>16108041
We have our Marine RECON/ Navy SEAL/SWCCs.

>>16108039
Oh yeah, definitely. There should be plenty of specialized sub-breeds.

>>16108041
True that. The underdark has lakes, and they inhabit the surface too so that works out fine. There could be one hive city on the coast.

>>16108013
>>16107998
>balloons
I'd suggest fire balloons be a popular form of entertainment in this culture. There's really easy to make - just a basic balloon with a small burning fire that raises it. Any spider could probably make one with a little effort or training, so I can imagine they get used as displays and kids play with them a lot.

>>16108095
Remember, the Dolomedes group can skate on the surface of the water too, like a pond-skater. These ones have little claws they use to stab at ripples.

>>16108064

The idea on my end was something closer to the OPs pic (basically a beefier, heavily armoured, sized up version of the baseline). What I mean by tank isn't necessarily a huge thing. Just heavy infantry like foot knights. Maybe they run fast too and fill a similar role to heavy cavalry.

I'd imagine the unintelligent servitor races people mention often are all basically huge regular spiders, while he Spider-folk themselves are like Nerubians, closer to spiders than the shitty Driders.

>>16108125
That brings up a good point.
What the hell are these guys going to think of the Driders, Drow, and other denizens of the Underdark?

>>16108115
They would be the rapid response/coast guard type. Diving bells would be like submariner spider pirates.
...this is turning out pretty good.

>>16108125
I'd still like it if we could link it at least a little bit to an existing species. If not crab spiders, what about these guys?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicarius_%28genus%29

They have the same low, angular profile and are predatory, powerfully venomous, inconspicuous, fast and enduring of hardship in terms of environment.

>>16108143
They'd be good sailors in general, actually. Dolomedes could board enemy ships easily and obviously no spider would have an issue scaling the sides of the ship or rigging. Spiders could repair torn sails with their own silk, and their sails would be extremely resilient anyway. Diving bells could lead ambushes and lay nets in the water if necessary.

I propose these two types would make a good naval caste.

>>16108142

The way i see it they would react to Driders in one of two ways.

Curiosity, it is an intelligent race of similar beings to themselves.

Or a xenphobic/pragmatic approach. Their fleshy parts disqualify them, and as per natural selection they at worst need to be exterminated (seen as a faulty abominable mix of fleshy two legger and the true spider-form) or at best seen as another sentient race they may as well eat unless there is some interest in relations with them.

Okay that was more like three ways but okay.

>>16108144

Sure sure, just the basic gist of the race is that they have a humanoid (though spider 'themed') upper torso and the two front legs have some form of hand-like claw set.

Perhaps some sub breeds have hands on more of their legs.

>>16108192
Well, that'd mean if these guys were the soldier types they'd be a little shorter than your general worker but way more heavyset and broad. Which seems to fit with what you said earlier.

>>16108167
Would they even need warships? I mean, diving bell spiders spend most of their lives underwater, and dolomedes seem to be able to do the same.
Unless it's like an extended naval campaign or something I think they'd be fine deploying in teams across the water.

>>16108192
Let's face it. Perverts are going to try and fuck each other.

Still, Drivers would be able to learn the language of the Makkari as they speak it. That's something. It would mean they might be close to Drow simply because they have more cultural transfer with them.

Of course, any decently powerful wizard could shift into Makkari form and try to communicate, but that might be awkward at diplomatic meetings.

>>16108211
For coastal defense, sure, and even possibly out quite far from a settlement - but for long voyages and naval warfare that isn't accompanied by land support they'd need ships of some kind or another.

Probably wouldn't look anything like human ships though.

By the way is this being archived anywhere yet?

>>16108211
>>16108238
...course, we could have them make those voyages in zeppelins and just drop into the water from the air when necessary.

>>16108248
Yeah, it's on sup/tg/ (it was downvoted!)

>>16108211
"He said WHAT?"
Might work, might not... because I suspect it's a more subtle language.

>>16108229
Two words- trade. They'd need some way, barring magical means, to deliver goods over long distances involving water.

You are now imagining the Makkari as the Underdark equivalent of the British Empire, only more likely to be isolationist.

>>16108238

It has been hinted (and would seem logical) that they are decent alchemists, using webber spiders they may well have perfected airships, in that case the only boats they'd probably use would me small transports and huge carrier like Arks for mass troop transports and as balloon bases. Perhaps it is a modular design, where several small transports are simply bound together and fortified as needed.

>>16108258
Yes, but even if they couldn't speak it exactly they could speak it better, and probably perfectly with an appropriate spell cast on them. So it would be more like a Makkari talking to a retard Makkari than talking like a retard in trade language itself. Which is mildly better from the perspective of the Makkari, I think.

>>16108238
Yes, but, I'm imagining the ship as more of a mobile base camp that squads stop by every few days to rest and resupply.

>>16108278
I have the sneaking suspicion that retard Makkari get eaten.

>>16108288
Sure, but that doesn't really negate my point about Driders being able to communicate with Makkari better than other races, dude.

>>16108282
If you are on the open sea, it's definitely better to be in a ship than out in the water. I imagine outside of stable seas or far from land they only drop onto the water in preparation for battle.

>Perhaps it is a modular design, where several small transports are simply bound together and fortified as needed.
Haha. While I like this, if I were to use it my players would rag on me. This was how humans traveled in my last campaign. Still, it works. I like the idea of arks though. Keep some enormous ships even if it is mostly modular.

Not so sure about the alchemy thing. They already have plenty of specializations. What's the reasoning behind it?

>>16108229

The Makkari have a diplomat/scout caste (the PC subrace) that can speak Common properly.

>>16108317

It may not be a specialisation but it is cirtanly a science.

Being able to secrete a multitude of compounds (as a race not individuals) like fleshmelting acids (for eating) a variety of poisons, from paralytics to necrotics, and the web and web-glue they use, in combination with a lot of corspe fermenting and fungi growing, and the exotic growths in the underdark, and the deep dark jungles (that most likely is where they originally developed) they have everything but a direct interest needed to make them potentially great alchemists.

It may not be a 'racial bonus' but its not a stretch that they figured out some gas science from here and there leading to the balloon technology.

It may even be a recent science, before they began trading in posions and the like it was limited to fringe experiments in the food industry and magical components for spells, but as other species introduced the concept and asked them to for example refine their poison exports it opened up the science to the civilisation as a whole. That would mean that it is a recent development which has lead to some interesting new creations, rather than being their ancient well developed art.

(Mad scientist professor spider Frankenweb of the albino seer caste anyone?)

>>16097332
Which Driders? Driders in 4e are champions of Lolth and revered by the drow. Driders in any other edition are social outcasts who hate drow.

>>16108421
Haha, great.

Also, since they have access to large quantities of spider silk... why not have them be masters of the suspension bridge and other such engineering constructions?

>>16108421
>Being able to secrete a multitude of compounds (as a race not individuals) like fleshmelting acids (for eating) a variety of poisons, from paralytics to necrotics, and the web and web-glue they use, in combination with a lot of corspe fermenting and fungi growing, and the exotic growths in the underdark, and the deep dark jungles (that most likely is where they originally developed) they have everything but a direct interest needed to make them potentially great alchemists.
I agree it makes sense, I just wanted to clarify the justification. I think probably basic herbal lore evolved into alchemy upon contact with other species, as you mention.

A crazy alchemist seer sounds cool, although maybe not called 'Frankenweb'. You could have this guy really push the whole 'blood is the life' doctrine given the seers' vampiric nature. And of course: monsters made of parts from all the difference spider castes, homunculi built from his own flesh, artificial limbs dripping with engineered poisons, the works.

>>16108324

Most likely it isnt a caste in itself but rather an asignment for senior leaders (who have the authority to conduct diplomatic talks), and the scout caste may be trained to speak common when their area of operations is in areas where contact with sentients is inevitable.

Otherwise merchants may also learn it. And some may decide to learn it out of their own volition.

>ctrl + f Aranea
>no results

Seriously /tg/?


Seriously?

>>16108449
Definitely. Their engineering is going to be weirdly out of sync. On the one hand, they'll have mastered materials science in respect of their silk. On the other, they probably won't be too savvy regarding everything else - when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, and their silk has always been a very applicable hammer.

>>16108481
I'm so sorry we haven't mentioned werespiders in this thread, Anon.

>>16108449
>>16108483
Bear in mind that ease of travel on webs mean that such bridges aren't really going to be a necessity though.

Huh, there's another niche they can hire out services for. Construction teams.

>>16108449


They do have significant engineering capabilities, going so far as to suspend hives from the roof in large cave environments. They are also very fast builders, the employment of which in warfare was discussed earlier.

>>16108483

As you say, why look for fixes for something that isnt broken. Though the inclusion of glue/mortar secretion webbers has given them some more conventional (though still very different due to a separately evolved structural science) building methods.

>>16108421
>>16108449

I wouldn't say that they've _mastered_ these particular fields, I think it's enough to say that they _know_ them and that there are classes of spiders that are engaged in doing alchemy and engineering. That doesn't mean that they are TEH BESTS ENGINEERS EVAR, only that these skills and tech exist in their civilization.

>>16108483

well the tensile strength is equal to that of high grade steel cable (1500) at a fraction of the weight, i can see them using it build bridges

but i also seeing them also using saws, hammers, etc to get what they need also

>>16108518
I think in terms of their silk they will be as good experts as exist in the field - which is all that was said. No one said they had mastered alchemy either.

>>16108142
I'm thinking they would respond with annoyance. These soft black shelled two leg beasts with a strange obsession with Spiders would be bothersome at best. It'd be like if your chickens wouldn't shut up about how cool you are.

If PCs are going to be viable for this, we'll have to stat out the race they can use.

On the discussion of mastery, the only thing we have so far expressedly stated them as masters of is the use of their spider silk. These guys make some of the finest cloths in the known world. And the fact that most of the race can shit this awesome fabric out at will (to some extent) and the potential that brings is probably something they realised long ago.

Their stated knowledge of alchemy, engineering and necromancy isn't really going any farther than the norm for advanced races.

The exception is ofcourse that they are a bit farther ahead in necromancy than races who shun its practice. But not to the point that they'd have major bonuses in it.

I could see them being used to build bridges everywhere due to how structurally sound they would be vs normal bridges

also i envision their navy to be more like floating webs of sorts, basically small boats interconnected with webs that entangle the boats up and cause them to crash together, then having pods of spiders jump up and assault the crew

or just stasndard ships

>>16108583

As someone said earlier, the way they are envisioned isn't really suiting for a balanced DND player race.

I wouldn't mind them as PCs myself but in the DND ruleset they'd either have to be balanced down or maybe suffer some severe level adjustments.

>>16108608
Large arks that use fast outrunner boats with that tactic sound good.

>>16108608

Perhaps catamaran like constructions, with a light structural skeleton suspended between two floats, using net to hold it together and suspend a 'deck' on the skeleton and using web-kite sails?

>>16108612

And as I said earlier, it would be easy to make a "scout" subrace that would fall in the range of a PC. Of course, that would mean that you wouldn't be able to play with the awesomest abilities of the race, but a few interesting ones.

>>16108583
medium

+2 Dexterity, +1 constitution, can't wear metal armor, +1 natural AC, can use climb and poisons naturally

>>16108658
>+1 to a stat
No, fuck off. I appreciate the suggestion but if you have no idea how to design to a race that fits in with the design of the game then don't bother. Racial modifiers do not work that way.

>>16108640

i like it! maybe use

>>16108608

and yours to be like a bait and switch tactic

they see your navy floating along decide to engage all of a sudden three of your boats are entangled up and are repelling boarders when suddenly, Makkari everywhere

>>16108657
>>16108658
Poison should scare because otherwise its worthless. Probably something like: +2 Dex, -2 Cha, natural climb speed at 2/3rds normal (move 30ft, climb 20ft), poison with DC 10 + Con + 1/2 class level, penalty on spot, bonus on jump, listen and climb. Can always take 10 on a climb check.

Uh... webs. Make it too slow to use in combat, but otherwise breakable and binding as per Web. Don't prohibit metal armor, but armor must be modified or specially made to fit them.

>>16108658

Their large legspan would probably make them a size larger than humans, most of them would probably have a use/day ability to make webs (super rope and fabric).

They'd have some measure of natural armour, natural weapons (poisonous mandibles and perhaps stingers and claws).

There is no real reason why they couldnt use metal armour though, problem being of-course it has to be custom made to fit them.

The bonus on climb would probably be absurdly high, not to mention including wall-climbing (except in cases where the DM rules they cant claw at the material).

Bonus for 360 degree field of vision may be offset by slightly worse range/colour spectrum bit it is still a powerful thing.

Is there some standard bonus for having extra legs too?

>>16108657

It is possible ofcourse, but cutting to many of these bonuses kind of makes it feel like it wouldn't do the concept justice.

>>16108707

hmm that works, maybe can web someone if unconscious otherwise it uses Use Rope? and only usable OOC

>>16108721

how bout just stat up all of them? and have the DM choose what he'll allow to be PC and what can't?

like race would be Makkari race with sub races

so if the DM wanted to he could run a pure makkari game without everyone being scouts?

>>16108745
They are not going to be equal. Jumping spiders will be getting automatic pounce, etc. Plus there are so many subraces already to consider.

>>16108745
>>16108760

Well you could do that, the thing with the Makkari is that they are in many ways better than standard DnD races, which may land them a crippling level adjust ment (im not the greatest at DnD so im not entirely sure how that works).

As for the subraces, there are a few major divisions as we all know, and you could perhaps set these up as templates, and then the players own choices dictate his particular subrace/altered brood.

They may as you say not be entirely equal but all would be capable.

Imagine for example a webber Artificer, a seer diviner/necromancer wizard, Jumper rogue and baseline/tankbreed warrior.

>>16108707
>>16108725
Thinking about it more, here's what I'd propose:
>Makkari racial traits (generic Makkari whatever brood)
>Size: Medium
>+2 Dex, -2 Cha
>Speed 30ft, climb speed 20ft
>-2 penalty on Spot checks
>+2 bonus on Listen and Jump checks
>+8 bonus on Climb checks
>low-light vision
>Can always take 10 on Climb checks
>Natural bite attack as per size, additional poison damage on bite:
>Class level 5<: 1 Str, secondary 1d4 Str
>Class level 10<: 1d4 Str, secondary 1d4 Str
>Class level 11+: 1d6 Str, secondary 1d6 Str
>DC 10 + 1/2 class level + Con
>Armor must be specially made for Makkari or modified to fit
>Web: can produce up to 20ft of web a day, sticks to surfaces, entangles an enemy who is not taking steps to avoid it on a reflex save (DC 15), enemy is entangled, web broken on DC20 strength or DC25 escape artist check
>Alternatively, may expand all webbing at once in a Web attack, DC same as poison DC, at the cost of becoming fatigued
This is too much to not have LA by D&D design though, so LA +1.

What could be statted up however are their exports.

Makkari Pure-silk armour. Even undecorated this armour is quite extravagant, excellent craftsmanship and the one of the best non-magical fabrics available. Light with excellent defence and durability for a cloth armour. Wearable even by wizards without penalty.

Makkari Martyr-silk armour. As above but with added carapace taken from Makkari warriors, it provides heavier protection by covering vital areas with the chittin plates and holding them together with the extravagant silk armour. Has some spiritual relevance also as the dead Makkari it is made from, are said to linger, protecting the wearer both in body and lingering spirit. Light or medium armour, spell penalties for wizards and all that but very little if any negatives for stealth, has a little better protection than Pure-silk.

Makkari Guardian-silk armour. As above but with metal plates instead of chittin. Heavy armour and provides more protection than the above by sacrificing subtlety. Still very stylish.

Makkari Ancestral Martyr-silk armour. Made from preserved and metal re-enforced chitin of fallen Makkari heroes. Master craftsmanship, exotic metals, no expenses barred. In other words epic gear, probably enchanted.

>>16108831
Might want to make poison 1d4/1d4 - 1d4/2d4 - 1d6/2d6, even. Get more use out of it.

>>16108831

Could the cha minus be situational? They take interaction penalties with non Makkari people but leaving Makkari Cha-based clases till viable? Im mostly stating this because it makes little sense for Makkari to have such cha negatives when interacting with eachother, i could really care less about the classes.

Also needs something to reflect their 360 vision.

Other notes: Does any of that mean they can scale sheer surfaces? And shouldn't they have natural armour?

Tarantulas as the tank breed?

>>16108969
They don't appear to be a particularly strong-minded or individualistic society, so a Cha penalty fits. They need to have a penalty somewhere.

They're very, very good at climbing but they are also following the given rules for spider-sorts in D&D. I'm not going to give them NA because it calls into question the level of level adjustment. I really hate LA, but natural armor tends to shoot it up.

>>16109078

quite the opposite they are extremely individualistic maybe a minus to wisdom

>>16109078

While im sure this all works just fine in DnD and lands pretty closely it seem to cut thing that are integral to the concept. Luckily i dont play DnD so it'll never bother me. So i guess, thanks for statting them for us.

>>16109117
>>16109078

There is that also yes. The only hampering on individualism is the overplayed mother-brood ties in the old kingdom. Which only tries to ensure the children would never turn on their mother, other than that they are as individualistic as the new kingdom.

question is...can someone stat it out for Riddle of Steel...or Savage worlds

>>16109134
I don't particularly like D&D either, which is why I'd prefer to avoid all these calls for them to be statted out. Because, "stat this," invariably begs two questions: 1) what system and 2) what do we need to compromise to do it?

Not worth it. Decide yourself how they should be if you need to stat them out in your own game and system.

>>16109430

I wont oppose the statting but I will say this about the results, it is inaccurate when compared to the concept of these creatures.

That said I dont give a fuck cause it'll end up in a homebrewed system on my front anyway.

Bumping for more spider-goodness.