>>17483647
isn't it just d20 modern with fancy gang ideas

Shiiit, why have I never tough about that.

bump for interest

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Catfight:_Tactics

Do I smell a "/tg/ gets shit done" thread?

I hope so.

So role playing as a themed street gang in the 70s?

Hmm, could be really interesting, man.

What's the best generic system out there for that kind of extremely low/basically human level of play?

Not op but bumping cuz I'm havin' a good time!

>Stylized 70s setting

>Tons of gangs with it's own themes

>Tools for creating your own gang

>Beat em' Up transitioned into PnP format


Why has this not been made yet.

Why.

>>17483688
So, yeah, I guess that's the question; are the PCs parts of a themed gang, or does each player play a gang?

>>17483716

I hear savage worlds is a pretty good generic system, but I've never really played it, and don't know how well it transitions to "real life" level of play.

First you'd need to find a system with good hand-to-hand combat rules.

Thinking about it now, a system like that could be really famous.

Imagine the kind of stuff you could portray.
Double Dragon, Streets of Rage, and tons of Beat em' Ups.
It would be pretty cash.

bump

What's really cool about the Warriors is that it is actually a retelling of Xenophon's Anabasis. Except instead of 10,000 Greeks marching to the Black Sea, it's about 10 dudes marching to Coney Island.

If you want to make a Warriors game, all the campaigns/adventures should be awesome moments from history and legend scaled down and transplanted to a mythical 70s New York. Think like the Iliad, or Romance of the Three Kingdoms, or Antony and Cleopatra.

Imagine Cortes's invasion of Mexico, but instead of 300 Spaniards with Steel and Horses, it's 30 dudes with Kung-fu and Rollerskates -- shit that the locals can barely comprehend. The ruling gang, known as the Heartbreak Boys, rule New York with an iron fist. The HBB's leader, Monty Z, tries to make peace with the newcomers, at least until the leader of new kung-fu gang steals his girl Melanie! The PCs have to fight massive rumbles against incredible odds, all while convincing the lesser gangs to rise up against the Heartbreak Boys and storm their fortified bunker in a climactic battle royale.

I would play that game.

>>17483990
>Dat feel when the all the stories in the entire Silmarillion could be boiled down to 70s street gangs fighting in fictional New York. Elves are a gang called Immortals, the Noldor are a gang called the Smiths.

>Mel from New Jeresy stole Angry Fea's jewels and killed his Dad, Fea's pissed the fuck off. The head gang leaders tell him he can't leave Coney Island just to fight Mel. Fea doesn't care. He gets his brother Fin, and their gangs together to leave Coney. The Smiths try to leave Coney, but some other Immortal gang members try to stop them. Fea tell his Smiths to beat them the fuck down. Fin doesn't like it.

>Mel changes his name to Mor, trying to shake the Fin and Fea's Smiths.

>During a big fight in downtown New Jersey Mor brings out his biggest baddest dudes. Mog, a big bad black motherfucker and his gang the Rogs kill Fea. Smiths fall back from New Jersey.

>Fin challenges Mor to a fist fight, Mor being one big mean motherfucker just beats him down. But Fin gets one solid punch to Mor's leg, snapping it in two. Making Mor walk with a limp for the rest of his life.

The possibilities just keep going on, and on, and on...

>>17483990

This is one of the best ideas I have ever read in this board.

Now, we still need a system.

>>17484196
>>17484136
>>17483990
This is the best thread we've had all year!

See what I did there?

>>17484196
Reminds me of the Bronx Age we were messing around with yesterday in a thread.

We really could use a system that's good for street brawling. Focus on unarmed combat, with improvised or simple weapons, terrain and teamwork plays into it a lot. Actual weapons are rare but powerful, guns will kill you if you're not careful.

>>17484244

This.
It should be deadly, detailed but not too much, and most importantly: fast.

You want to be fighting two, three times the ammount of PCs in each encounter.
Scenario should play a great deal in. Improve weapon from glass hards, rusty pipes, wood boards, chains, etc.
Grab a dude, throw him through a door, smash his head against a sink, etc.
That kind of rough, hardcore fighting that goes fast but gets pretty crazy.

Never played Riddle of Steel, but from what I've heard it's system of different types of attack sounds nice and crunchy, maybe we should have something like that?

>>17484316
>>17484322
Should have additional emphasis on initiative or something. Make people always want to be going first so they can get the first punch, start running, whatever.

>>17484337

True. Maybe Savage World's "random" initiative would be good, that way you never know who's going to act first.

>>17484322
Riddle of steel is very deadly though. It should be a slug fest where you can get to a pulp without actually dying. Unless somebody pulls a knife or a gun, and then it's "the chicks are packed!" Anybody having a gun would be a huge deal.

The problem with going with a system like tRoS is that it's tailored to, well, a medieval game. The whole game is focused on that. Switching the focus to something like this would take a lot of effort on the homebrewer's part.

A brawler PnP engine?

Oh yes please. We could play out every other saturday night on the OTHER saturday nights!

Pic. Fucking. Related.

>>17484391

Exactly.

People are not supposed to die, just get really wrecked. Maybe you would even fight the same guys more than once.
A gun would appear at like, the BBEG final fight, or something like that.

Holy shit this is amazing.

>>17484446

Ok.

So we're making a combat system, cool.

Everyone, post your knowledge on PnP combat systems, and your favorite bits of every game you've played.

Also, inspirational gang brawling media.
Games, movies, comics, anything.

Let's make this happen.

We need more stories like these:

>>17484196
>>17484136

Seriously. Writefags and Drawfags get in here.

This is now officially a /tg/ "gets shit done" thread. The Bronx Age is perfect name for it. Maybe Tales from New York, or Modernized Myths and Legends. Throwing around ideas off the top of my head. Holy shit I got an idea:

> Napoleonic Wars in Bronx Age

A friend's telling me about a fanmade system called THRASH that was based on the Street Fighter RPG, in the White Wolf style.

>>17484501

The PS2/Xbox game is DEFINITELY inspirational. Best fighting game i've ever played

>>17484316
It should descriptive and dirty. Grabbing people's hair and throwing them into piles of trash cans. I want to be able to smash somebody's head in a door, or spin a turnstile so it hits a guy in the balls. ALL weapons should be improvised. Pool ques and lead pipes. Take off your belt and break a guy's teeth with your beltbuckle.

You could give PCs a bonus the first time they pick up and use a weapon. That way they don't get a good weapon and stick with it. Instead they're constantly breaking beer bottles and picking up bricks to throw and stealing weapons out of their opponents' hands.

>>17484510
I am going to run a game set in Canada. It's a gang of Quebecois faggots versus the rest of the country, in a retelling of the Hundred Years' War.

>>17484510
>>17484501
/tg/ get's shit done mind.

Somebody say brawl?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufss5ot_vGE

>>17484526
A bonus to hit with the first attack?

Also, EVERYBODY shouls be packing deadly weaponry like knives and guns, but there's an honor system - if you don't use one, the other guy doesn't. That way you know you can survive even if you lose. If you win, the badguy(s) are tougher next time, like all good recurring antagonists.

>>17484534
Yes yes tell us more yes.

There can be an advantage called "Ghetto MacGyver" that allows you to make crazy weapons out of junk. I use a red-hot clothes iron spinning on the end of an extension cord.

>>17484576
That's all I got for now. I haven't studied that period of history for ages, so I'll need to read up on it again.

>>17484446
If people want it quick and simple we could divide most 'weapons' i.e. any object into broad categories like Small Medium Large and Huge.
Small is maybe for anything the size of your head or smaller, like a chain, paint can, pipe/wrench, glass bottle.
Medium is the size of your torso, like a sink, trash can lid, sawed off pool queue.
Large is for anything bigger then medium that you could still carry, like a chair?
and Huge is for things like maybe a soda machine that you and a buddy could tip on a guy?

We could even make another bracket for hardness like Spongy, Hard, Concrete, or something, but it would make play slower.

>>17484623
Although I'm not sure about this direction of categorizing weapons it's a step forward.

We need some historyfags in here. All I can think of is Hannibal vs. Scipio Africanus in the second Punic War. But this time Hannibal sneaks motorcycles across the East River instead of Elephants across the Alps.

>>17484526

Yes!

How can we make something that is both descriptive and detailed, but at the same time fast and thrilling?

Maybe there should be a counter system, like, if you see what the other guy is doing, you can try to counter it.

Like if he's going to punch you, you can try to dodge, or if he's coming at you with a bat, you try to hold it and snatch it off his hands. You can try to hold a leg when someone tries to kick you, stuff like that. That would make it seem more dynamic, instead of just having to wait for your turn to act.

>>17484646
It's just a broad idea, I'm not tied to it.


On another not, I think there could be moral and have it possibly be based on the number of guys you have standing. As the number drops your guys get nervous and eventually bug out?

Just throwing shit at the wall.

>>17484690
>>17484690
>>17484690


FUCK!

This is great, man! We could like, stray from the old and beaten "classi" way of doing combat rounds, and instead of INITIATIVE, everyone acts on reaction! So quick characters would get bonuses on reaction rolls, and stuff like that.

Come on, /tg/, I hope you guys are as excited about this as I am.

>>17484703

Hmm, could be, but that's mostly role playing, you don't really need rules for that.

>>17484501
There's that one scene from "They Live"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsZpdUUdd3I
"Either put on these glasses, or start eating that trash can."

>>17484690
Like a parry system? you may still take some damage and possibly break bones blocking a lead pipe with your forearm. But it's far better then taking it to the teeth as it were.

>>17484707

That's not exactly what I meant, but is even better.

I like that.

Any historyfags and writefags gonna make anything? Just askin'. Going to bed /tg/, hope this thread turns out well.

Should we make threads every day or weekly? Sorta like Hail & Kill I guess.

>>17484741

Yeah, maybe stopping a bat/pipe with your arm would stop you from taking a wound, but would give you negative bonuses on rolls for [WP DMG] number rounds

>>17484526
Agreed.
This is a fuck-awesome idea, and to contribute something I suggest a Random Crap table. To help map-management stuff like turnstiles, empty oil drums, torn chain link fences, old dynamite sticks and everything else could just be rolled up.
Broken cars, random improvised weapons, unbarred windows, incomplete sidewalk repairs, on and on.
>>The Summer's Here and the Time Is Right For Fighting In The Streets.

Ok, so where should we start then?

I'm seeing gridless combat; maneuvers instead of movement. Put a max limit on dudes who can gang up on you at one time.

>>17484690
>>17484707
Going off these, you can do some sort of horrible combination of D&D's roll+stat to hit, and Malifaux's opposed duels.

Let's say, the attacker starts and rolls to hit. He rolls enough to hit the defender. The defender then rolls to parry or minimize the attack in some way, trying to match or beat the attacker's roll. (as much as i dislike d20, it may be the best option in this situation). If he matches or beats the attacker's roll, the hit glances/is blocked/etc. he still takes some damage, but not as much as a full hit. If he fails, though, he's caught wide open and takes a good solid whack.

>>17484773
Nothing like hail & kill; that went nowhere slow.

>>17484793
>>17484741
>>17484707
This sounds like opposed rolls. So instead of an attacker rolling against a static number (AC) both people roll and then compare results. If the defender scores a bit better than his attacker, he defends. If he scores way better, then he can pull off a counter. He can do damage or take his weapon or knock him over or whatever.

>>17484910

I think for this we should eliminate the "roll to hit" part.

You're not going to miss a dude with a baseball bat.

Maybe there should be just the attack roll, and then the reactive roll.

Parrying being the easiest, Dodging being medium difficulty, and especial maneuvers, like stealing the weapon, doing an arm-lock etc, should depend on the character listed skills.

>>17484943
>>17484952

This is like a new level of hive mind right here.

>>17484943
I like >>17484741's idea; maybe if you're within a threshold of the parry roll, you do some minor damage. Nobody walks away without getting a little busted up.

>>17484952
And set it up so that you have to call what kind of reaction you're doing before you roll? that's a pretty good idea. and yeah the roll to hit is kind of superfluous now that i think about it.

>>17484975
Yeah, but the attacker still needs to do something on his turn, other than say he's attacking. Taking away the dice kills a sense of accomplishment for some people.

>>17484973

Yeah, using >>17484952's idea, you could choose to try and parry, which would be the easiest option, but you would still take minor damage.

Then you can try to dodge, which is harder, but if you manage to, you avoid damage all together, if you fail, you take full damage.

>>17484987

No no, you're still rolling, but not TO HIT, you're rolling the effectiveness of the attack itself.

>>17484998
Right, both sides are rolling, we're just removing the AC equivalent and making it more of an opposed roll.

>>17484904
Yeah. Or multiple dudes can gang up on you, but only three of them can attack you in any one round. They have to take turns because... movies.

Also, there be grappling but it can't last long. You can put a guy in a headlock and then smash him into a revolving glass door, but you can't grab a guy and pin him for consecutive rounds cuz that doesn't make a good scene. More like Pro Wrestling than real wrestling.

>>17484998
Ohhhh. I get it. Hmm.

>>17484990
I like that. Suggests 3 builds already: Brute (can't dodge/parry, but can take a beating); Boxer (can parry); Quick guy (can dodge).

Ok, so for the opposed action vs. reaction thing, what would be better?

d20s, d10s, d6s?

Personally I think d20s are the best option. Avoiding dice pools is the first step for a faster combat.

What do you guys think?

Im thinking we need damage penalties realy bad. Then a good solid hit dazes a guy, and hes set up to get knocked the fuck out.

>>17484998
Are you saying that one roll includes both the "to hit" and "damage" elements from other games?

>>17485021
>law of inverse ninjutsu
I think that's a must.

>>17485021

Yeah, maybe grappling is like a combo.

You roll to grapple, he rolls his reaction. If you succeed, then you have to do something with the guy, or he's setting himself free the next round.

Maybe there are some reactions exclusive to some actions.

Like, if someone tries to grab you, you can kick them away from you, but you wouldn't be able to do that if someone's just trying to punch you.

In other words, more complex actions will leave you open for a bigger choice of reactions.

>>17485039
I agree, but it's gonna be a trick to make it so it doesn't bog down combat. Maybe set up penalties by how much of a success the attack was? (Over the defender's roll)

>>17485043

Kinda. There's not "To hit". You're not going to miss the guy, because the defense would be active, not passive.

>>17485039
>>17485043

OK, I think I got this. Damage track (like Shadowrun). One end is fine, other end is knocked the fuck out. Attacker rolls for attack effect; defender rolls to reduce attack effect. If defender rolls higher than attacker, reversal.

>>17485058

Why are you people browsing /tg/ and not designing games?

>>17485089

Who says we're not IRL? I'm sure there's one or two scumming for ideas.

>>17485058
I think you should be able to sustain a grapple round to round, it's effectively neutralizes and opponent without inflicting damage, rewarding you for initiating and maintaining the attack.

>>17485031
D12 MASTER DICE!!!

>>17485076

Yeah, but maybe tougher characters have a bigger damage "track".

Maybe parrying doesn't move you down on the track, but the minor damage could be represented by temporary penalties on rolls, like someone mentioned earlier.

>>17485031
I've played very few games with dice pools. Or at least not for very long. So I can't speak from experience about which is better.
>>17485076
A reversal should be an automatic effect. If you counter you just do damage. That's faster than if a reversal means you counter attack with another opposed roll that could get reversed etc... Unless we could somehow make that kind of chaining awesome.

>>17485129
But it's not like, y'know, Wicked

>>17485144

Maybe the HP represent his willingness to fight.

Zero meaning he's totally wrecked on the floor, and near zero making him back away from the fight.

So when you counter, you're decreasing his willingness to fight.

I mean, after someone dodged your punches five times in a row, you kinda notice that you should probably stop now.

>>17485157
Well if you imagine it as the guy holding his foe in a vice like bear hug. Or holding his head down a toilet. or holding him with his shirt pulled over his head. Or sitting on him. Or holding him in a headlock or clinch (greco and thai) it could be.

Punching something it's all that interesting either. But eye-gouging him as uppercutting him as you pull his head down by his hair is.

>>17485141
I think minor damage should be the default; characters get broken ribs and bruises 90% of the time. Guns & knives are a big deal (meaning one party is through fuckin' around).

>>17485129

Hmm could work, but it could be too overpowered.

I think the grapple maintains if an ally attacks the grappled character, and he fails his reaction roll to kick the attacker or something like that.

>>17485190
Do two tracks? Lethal and 'Cosmetic'?

>>17483990
>all the campaigns/adventures should be awesome moments from history and legend scaled down and transplanted to a mythical 70s New York
Remember the Bronx Age thread?

>>17485058
I really like the idea of combos. Grab a guy by the ears then headbutt him. It also hooks in with counters. A guy swings a bat at you, you counter by grabbing it, on your turn you yank it hard enough to pull him off his feet. It's a deeper game, but you have to write out all those moves and combos. Make sure they're balanced with each other, etc...

I dont know, Im really tempted to scavenge The Riddle of Steel for ideas. Manuever rolls instead of moving, the awesome initiative system, the fact that getting hit is realistacally sucky. I think most of the combat system is there, just a lot of the complexity needs to be stripped away. And taking away some of the complexity makes an already fast system even faster.

>>17485213
I didn't see it. Is it archived? I like the pun.

>>17485205
So you have to effectively "Pile On" in a grapple to maintain it? Like if your buddies don't run ever and give you a hand the other guy tears free unless he rolls a 1 or so?

>>17483990
>Romance of the Three Kingdoms
>Streetfighting gangs

Isn't that the whole plot of Ikkitousen?

>>17485223

Yup, exactly.

>>17485208
I think one track; killing weapons just make someone dead instead of knocked the fuck out, and the damage takes longer to heal.

>>17485232

Yeah, basically.

A lot of this i figure would be done on the GM's side of the game, so designing an easy way for him to create "spot pieces" for the PCs to interact with would be key.

This is something I always thought was done well in 4e D&D. At any rate, a lot of this combat is reminding me of Def Jam: FIght for NY, with the whole street fighting aspect and heavy use of weapons/ environmental interactions in order to quickly dispatch opponents.

But for instance, here is what I'm talking about

Old Factory Machinery - This dessicated piece of machinery still seems like it might function...

Action - Set Piece - If opponent is grappled successfully next to Old Factory Machinery, you may use the following attack

<Insert Crunch mechanics here>

basically it's important to have an easily scalable and usable mechanics for a GM to easily insert tons of crazy shit, varying in severity from getting your head smashed into a door, vs getting thrown out a window.

>>17485252
I actually like that a lot. Fits the feel of a street fight.

>>17485263
A set of cards maybe? GM draws some random cards for things that may or may not be used for a given brawl?

What about vitality/wounds? Vitality being a measure of toughness, agility, generally non lethal things, while wounds generally mean you got seriously fucked up.

>>17485288
I like that - tactile and fast. Fits the setting.

>>17485303
Would probably have different stacks for different areas. Factory district having old machinery and stuff like that, Boardwalk has tables and chairs and such, warehouse district has heavy objects, etc.

So Im definitely feeling a damage threshold system. Damage above that gives you a corresponding penalty on the next round. And that could set up some neat shit, like if you counter somebody or catch them unprepared they dont have their damage threshold.

>>17485227
Mostly I think you just need to tweak the damage tables and reskin the maneuvers a bit to get tRoS rocking some 1970s gang warfare up in this motherfucker.

Regarding a Vitality/Wounds notion, one suggestion I'd make is to allow certain dramatic melee maneuvers allow a character to revive one of his damage tracks, which should represent how composed and "solid" the combatant is at the moment. Landing a wicked haymaker on a fool is sure to get your blood up a bit, which would make up for an earlier setback.

Perhaps when a character is well-composed and self-confident, maneuvers have a lower activation cost, representing the cock-sure swagger of a gang thug hopped up on his own testosterone. When shaken, the activation cost is normal, when humiliated it's at an active penalty.

>>17485230
Damn, doesn't seem like it was.
It was cool though, Set in 70's Bronx, Zues was the Top Dog of the local organized crime. Poseidon ran the Docks, Dionysus ran the drugs, women, booze. All that stuff.
Odysseus was the leader of a Gang who wanted to retire and head upstate with his family, but he one REALLY pissed of Poseidon so that wasn't going to happen.

ok how this for a possible weapon spec system, you have the standard im better with bats(baseball furries) or bottels ect but u also have some one that is spced in improvised everything, they dont get as high bonuses to one weapon type but when they use a weapon for the first time they get a bonus that makes it stronger, so u have some one running around disarming and using opponents weapons each round as well as some people that want to stick with there weapon of choice.

I SUPPORT THIS IDEA AND THROW ALL OF MY MONEY AT YOU GUYS. Also, Pro Wrestling RPG called Piledrives and Powerbombs if you guys want to look that up.

Someone archive. What should we call this, The Bronx Age?

Seconding Savage Worlds as a system choice. RoS is fun, but pretty much impossible to re-tailor to a modern day setting.

>>17483671
>d20 modern

GET THE FUCK OUT.

>>17485387
The Riddle of Brooklyn

>>17485387
that seems to have stuck, yes. sounds fine with me.

>>17485403
If you wanted to tailor a system, it would HAVE to be Joints and Jivers.

HAVE TO.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Joints_and_Jivers

>>17485263

Billy arrives at one of his gang's safe houses, the old abandoned comic shop.

He goes inside, the door bell still working, and is greeted by three other gang members -only not his.

Apparently, the Legionaries were serious when they said they'd be back.

"Be cool" he thinks. "I can handle these goons".

--- Initiative is rolled/decided ---

Billy wins, and chooses to hold his ground and wait, giving him a slight bonus to his reaction roll.

The first guy comes charging at him with a lead pipe, Billy reacts by dodging out of the way.

d20 + 2 ( the enemy bonus with blunt weapons ) vs d20 + 4 ( 2 for Billy's speed modifier, 2 for 'holding his ground')

Billy jumps back, and the other boy missed.

The other two now run to surround him, but attacking a ganged up target takes two actions, so they can't do anything for now.

Billy tries to grapple one of the goons next to him, which will try to kick him in the gut

d20 + 2 (Billy's speed mod.) vs. d20 - 2 (He's trying a tricky reaction)

He's not even able to lift his legs before Billy grabs him and lifts him slightly, and throws him against the one holding the pipe, which gets a chance to try and dodge the incoming human projectile.

d20 + 1 ( Billy's STR mod.) vs. d20 - 4 (It's hard to dodge something as big as a body)

The two thugs crash into each other and are sent flying backwards into a stand of dusty old magazines.

The one thug left standing, seeing his pals defeated by a single Vikings member, doesn't think twice before darting out of the store.

The victorious Billy now phoned the Vikings headquarters. They didn't sound surprised when they heard the news. They were already expecting the Legion to make the first stupid movie, and now they have a reason to invade their territory, and start their long awaited war.

>>17485403
SAVAGE worlds is definitely not deep enough. If we want a really gritty detailed fast and brutal combat system, tRoS already has it. Changes that need to be made are fairly minor.

>>17485542

>Vikings

>Legionaries

So much potential to be explored

>>17485542
I LIKE IT! Make me another!

>>17485542

>but attacking a ganged up target takes two actions

Hey, that's nice bro!

Okay, bear with me on this. I'm trying to dream up mechanics that can make this cool and fast. How about this?

1>The attacker declares what his MOVE is.
2>The defender declares what his COUNTER is.
3>Both fighters roll a d20 and add their bonuses.
4>Both fighters tally their total FIGHT scores, and compare them.
4A.> If the attacker's FIGHT beats both the defender's FIGHT and the defender's DODGE (AC), then the attacker performs his MOVE.
4B.> If the defender's FIGHT beats both the attacker's FIGHT and the attacker's SHREWD, then the defender performs his COUNTER.

This leaves three possible outcomes: hit, miss, and counter. The advantage here is that you don't have to see 'by how much' you beat the other guy, you just look at his FIGHT and DODGE and see if you got a bigger number than those. (From playing Mutants&Masterminds, I can say it is a bit of a pain to figure if you beat a score by 5, by 10, by 15, etc.. At least it is for my mathematically disinclined players.)

>>17485675

Maybe dodge and shrewd should be a bonus to FIGHT, and not a number by themselves.

>>17485432

Got my copy of Joints & Jivers/Modempunk in the mail a few days ago. Really love it.

Wouldn't be hard at all for a FunkMaster to add some extra Warriors inspired items to the game.

>>17485740

Wow.

Someone printed a /tg/-made game?

I hope the minds behind the game got something out of it.

>>17485542
For an attack against two dudes, it should be an opposed roll against the one with the better defenses. The secondary target can grant a bonus, like 'Aid Another' in d20, but he doesn't actually roll. If his friend rolls shitty, he's out of luck.
>>17485709
That's the crux of the idea though. If you want to counter, you have to beat your opponent and a static number. Otherwise you'd counter every single time you successfully defended against an attack, which makes counters less cool.

So a few ideas. 1. We need a Necromunda/Reign type system for running your organization between bouts of ass whoopin. Expand your turf, get a bigger cut of the drug market, etc. 2. In The Warriors game for the Xbox, they use coke to heal up. Stat out drugs? 3. Weapons. Just make a list of things with damage that adds to whatever you rolled above his defense. Doesnt matter if you throw a garbage can at the dude or the dude at a garbage can, it does 5 damage.

>>17485764

http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/joints-jivers-modempunk/14262518

No idea if anyone gets any money of if it all goes to lulu for the printing costs but the price is very good for a nicely printed wee 40 page A5 (I think) book.

>>17485775

It's supposed to feel like street fighting movies man.
They dodge and counter like that shit's going out of style.
It's not supposed to be a "critic" , it's supposed to be a regular maneuver.

>>17485776

So damage would basically be:

Base STR mod + Object "hardness" number.

Sounds good?

>>17485775

>Otherwise you'd counter every single time you successfully defended against an attack

But that's the entire point of the system, to be filled with counters and combos.

>>17485822
Still, they should be a cool extra rather than that thing you do near every turn. Not saying they should be very rare, just not every time that a guy misses.

ONLY READ HALF THE THREAD, BUT HOW ABOUT THIS FOR HITS AND DAMAGE, STOLEN A BIT FROM SHADOWRUN, KIND OF.

Opposed rolls. Attacker rolls a 14. Defender tries to dodge it, rolls a 10. Defender takes 4 damage, plus or minus any modifiers. From the weapon or strength of the attacker. Attacker is a weakling like Rembrandt, throwing a punch? -1 or -2 damage, so the defender ends up taking 2 or 3 damage.

But the attacker's using a knife or something? +3 damage from that knife. So 7 damage.

Attacker is swinging a baseball bat. Let's say +2 damage. Rolls a 16. Defender rolls a 12, so the attack hits for 4 + 2 damage. Maybe the defender is a pretty big guy though. High CON or something. -1 or -2 to damage taken. So that reduces the damage. So he takes like, 4 or 5 damage or something.

Opposed rolls, with the amount over the roll adding to damage. Modifiers based on weapons and player attributes. Opinions?

>>17485849

But there is no miss.
The "miss" would be a dodge reaction/counter.

>>17485861

Sounds cool, but I think for a system like that it should have static damage.
But yeah, we don't know for sure.

We should definitely get some people together and play test all the options.

>>17485863
Yeah that's what I'm saying. You want at least SOME missing. It shouldn't be punch or or get punched with every single attack, right?

>>17485863
I agree that there's no miss, but sometimes you just dodge, and sometimes you dodge and take his legs out from under him. The special shit shouldn't be a guaranteed thing.

rolled 2 - 1 = 1

>>17485885
Let's test this right fucking now man.

I'm a Skull Smasher, coming at you with a bottle in my hand. I'm a big guy, with +1 to my damage from my strength, and +1 to damage reduction because of my size, but -1 to my chances to hit because I'm a bit slow. So I'm gonna swing at you with my bottle, let's say since it's unbroken, it adds 1 to damage for the first hit, which it will break after.

1d20-1 for my attempt to hit you. You decide to do whatever, add or subtract modifiers based on your character or whatever, and roll to see what happens.

>>17485898

It kinda should. That's the point of this, to make a rough, fast system that recreates the brutal fights from the movies.

Here's my idea.
It's an opposed roll Attacker vs. Defender.
Parrying gets a bonus, but even if it succeeds you take minor damage/get a temporary stat penalty.
Dodging is as straight roll and if you succeed you take no damage.
Countering gives a penalty, but if it succeeds you get to do damage/grapple/disarm.

I love the idea of to-hit and damage being one roll. Im almost sold on the idea of all misses giving the defender an attempt to counter. This keeps things very fast and theres never any dead time. Youre always attacking or actively defending, unless you purposely choose to do otherwise.

>>17485924
>1

God damn.

Fun Fact, the Warriors is technically supposed to be set in the not-to-distant future. Sort of Dystopian megacity where there is a weird mix of Martial Law and Gang Rule.

But, tossing in my two cents on this.

I like the idea of removing a "To Hit" roll and just making it a roll to see just how effective your attack is. Even at minimum, barring critical failure, you're still dishing out some damage, because being in a rumble is chaotic and stressful.. But on a fantastic success you not only hit the guy, you clobber the sorry chump, toss his ass across the room, and break his arm.

Mechanically, that might go something like
>Player rolls Attack vs Target's Defense roll.
>Beat by at least 1, do 1 morale damage
>Beat by 3 or more, Do 1 damage and 1 minor additional effects or actions (push, grab, distract, swing, ready item, etc)
>By 5 or more, Do 1 damage and either 2 Minor effect or 1 Major effect or action (Wound, disarm, pin, taunt etc)
>By 7 or more, they are probably knocked the fuck out.. But do 3 damage, 3 minor, or 1 major and 1 minor.
>Any more than that and you just bash them

>Resolve each action individually.

Bam! Combos, damage, varied combat. That major and minor thing also makes it so there is a difference between shoving someone against a wall and smashing their head through some dingy bathroom sink.

>>17485939
I think the minor effects added to attacks is too much. it's making a brawl into something more complicated.

Now taunts or whatever could be pretty cool, especially if they have some effect on opponents or allies, but they should require actions on their own.

Jabronie Jim goes and dives into the gang of Night Jammers, while his homeboy Mario Slice calls them out for being a bunch of makeup wearing faggots. He rolls to taunt them. They roll willpower or composure or something to resist his taunt.

Also, we could steal the red/white thing from Riddle of Steel instead of having initiative, a few tweaks and it should be great for this system.

rolled 1 + 3 = 4

>>17485924

Ok, I'm a Metal Head member, wearing the iconic spiked leather jackets, and seeing you coming at me, a fast but frail man, (+3 to dodge, -1 to dmg reduction and +0 to hit) jumps out of the way of your bottle

rolled 5 + 3 = 8

>>17485934

Yes, that's exactly what I had in mind.

>>17485977
>>17485924
>2-1
>1+3
You are both feeling especially incompetent tonight. However, the metal head is slightly less incompetent in this situation.

rolled 9 + 3 = 12

>>17485939

It's not a fun fact, that's the plot of the movie.

rolled 16 - 1 = 15

>>17485977
Swoosh! You avoided my bottle, but barely. My surprise served me well. Since I initiated that last attack and did it by surprise, I went first. But since we're both aware of the fight, I guess we should roll initiative. 1d20 + modifiers, I guess. Probably the same -1 for me since I'm a big dumb brawler.

>>17485990
Tell that to everyone in this thread who thinks the movie is set in the 70's.

>>17485990
It's the plot of the director's cut of the movie, which is not as good as the theatrical cut.

>>17485928
Okay. That's a workable idea but it will take more work because it's sort of novel. One potential problem with it is that it might encourage people to wait-and-counter rather than attack. We don't want a bunch of guys all standing around waiting. So to prevent that, we should give attackers a SIGNIFICANT advantage over defenders.

Ok, so now, me being the active player, I try to kick you in the nuts.

Again, I think dodge and to hit may be derived from the same speed-based base skill, so I get a +3 to hit, but I have +0 dmg bonus and a deadly -1 dmg penalty to dmg reduction, meaning I get hurt more easily.

rolled 1 + 3 = 4

>>17486029

Forgot my roll.

One of the guy's who is doing the simulated combat here.

How about we borrow a bit from the Shadowrun character generation.

A couple attributes that you put points into at chargen.

Strength - Damage and other situational uses that could be thought of on the fly in game. Gotta lift a couch to block a door? Strength test.
Body - Mostly for damage resistance and HP.
Speed - Reaction/Initiative, movement rate, etc.
Brains - Good for something. Probably skills.
Guts - Bravery and the like. Resisting will tests. Resisting taunts.

So you've got a set amount of points at chargen to put into attributes. Decide what power level to play at before hand. You want a weaker game? Less points and you're playing as the Orphans. Or a higher level game? You're some kind of heavy duty wreckers.

Then you can do the same for skills.

>>17486003

Where can I find the theatrial cut?

>>17486059
I dunno.

>>17486059
>>17486060
http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=4270
A quick rundown of what you're missing and what was changed between the different cuts.

5 billion seconds on Google.

>>17486042
I think the attributes should be guts, spine, muscle, brains, and balls. How they work? I don't know. But those should be our attributes.

>>17485939
This gives me an idea. Lets say the attacker rolls 15 and the defender rolls 7. Lets say it costs 3 to knock a guy down and 5 to grapple. He decides to spend the five to grapple and the rest rolls into damage. The defender removes 7 points of damage, but the attacker still punches his face for three damage and grapples him. Now lets reverse it. The defender soaks the attackers 7 damage and can spend 2 to disengage or 5 to counter. He chooses to counter and can spend his remaining 3 to do damage or use an attack manuever. Sound good?

>>17486096

It sounds like a good system, but maybe too complex for what we're looking for. It'd take too much time to make the math, then distribute the points and etc.

>>17486096
>>17486096
That's kind of a cool idea. Both players make an opposed roll with modifiers. The player with a higher total subtracts his opponents total; the remainder is his pool of fight-points. He can spend those fight-points to do whatever.

>>17486092
guts - Daring, moral under pressure / in combat.
spine - Charisma, presence, leadership.
muscle - Strength
brains - intelligence
balls - See: guts. Couldn't think of anything for this.

>>17486111
But by combining attack and damage rolls into one thing, and by compressing two rounds of you-attack-then-he-counter-attacks into one opposed roll, we are really moving way faster than your average RPG.

>>17486195
Remove balls and replace it with speed.

guts - Daring, moral under pressure / in combat.
spine - Charisma, presence, leadership.
muscle - Strength
brains - intelligence
Speed - Reaction and movement.

>>17486195
Balls should be for crazy off the wall Jackie Chan maneuvers. "God damn, that takes some balls!"

>>17486208
But we need to change 'speed' to 'feet' or some other slang to fit the rest.

>>17486208

This one's the best so far.

>>17486232
I think just calling it speed is fine.

The one I have a problem with is spine.

>>17486224
That's what Guts is for. Need to jump from a high roof to a lower one, possibly breaking a leg on landing, not to mention the six story drop ALL the way down to the ground? That's a Muscle or Speed roll, but you first roll Guts. Fail that Guts roll and you freak out, and you take penalties to your action roll. The worse you freak out under pressure, the more of a penalty you take.

You could use it in combat either as moral or composition, maybe needing to pass Guts rolls after taking so much damage, getting ganged up on, having a lethal weapon pulled on you... Whatever would take Guts to stand up to

>>17486252
Change Spine to Backbone?

>>17486268
That definitely sounds better.

>>17486111

It's all subtraction. You subtract whatever your enemy rolls, then subtract from the remainder to do cool stuff.

really we don't even need attributes. a character could be defined wholly by his bonuses. +1 to throws. +2 to counters. +1 to damage with weapons. -1 to defense. +3 to flee

OP here, I'm going to bed now.

If this thread is 404 by the time I wake up tomorrow, I'll create another one, around 3 pm EST.

Let's say that 3 is the definition of standard. A guy who is completely average in every way would have a 3 in every stat.

Now let's say the 'Basic' starting character starts with, 18 points. 20 would be too much, because then the average starting character would be 4 in every stat. So let's say 18 is the suggested average. Increase or decrease depending on the power level of your game.

Guts - 4
Backbone - 5
Muscle - 3
Brains - 3
Speed - 3

Guy like this might be a gang's leader. Good leadership skills, etc.

Guts - 3
Backbone - 3
Muscle - 5
Brains - 2
Speed - 5

More of a bruiser.

>>17486317
Based on what dice though? d6 system? Or are those just numeric bonuses to those stat rolls on a D20 roll?

>>17486372
I was thinking they would just represent stats, on a scale of 1 - 6 or something.

3 is average. Have a 4 in strength, that's a +1 modifier to strength rolls. Have a 2? That's a -1 modifier.

>>17486387
Then why not just have +1 and -1?

>>17486372

I think we're pretty set using a d20 system. Although that will always have the problem that eventually the modifier makes the roll irrelevant.

>>17486424
If the modifiers from stats end at +-3, then rolling on a d20 only adds up to a 15% change from attributes.

>>17486409

This. Since it looks like we're trying to make the fastest game ever, this makes sense.

>>17486409
That works well, too.

All stats at 0, average. Have like, 2 or 3 points to spend. Can get more from putting stats into the negatives.

>>17486459

Guts - +1
Backbone - 0
Muscle - +2
Brains - -1
Speed - +1

A tough guy character. Ajax, maybe. He wasn't the biggest guy, but he was a bad dude.

>>17486096
>>17486300
I really like this idea, but it leads to some weirdness. The opposed roll happens, a winner is declared, and his fight-points get determined. He then spends those fight points to do moves, to describe how the fight happens. What's weird about that is that the attacker doesn't declare his action before he attempts it. He doesn't say, "I swing a bat at that dude's head," and then roll to see if the bat and head connect. He says, "Roll Off. Me vs. this dude"; and then if he wins, "I got five points, so I guess I hit him in the head with bat." That's not bad necessarily, but it's different.

>>17486502
I don't like that idea of "fight points" at all.

rolled 4 = 4

Man, I'm probably going to catch shit for this but...OWoD's d10 system with specializations work reaaly well with this sort of "theatrical" combat. The initative not so much maybe but I mean, the traits and flaws systems and the point buy I think would work really well.

Keep the "action/reaction" combat style and it works great.

>>17486502

I was figuring the initial roll is kind of a mess of ineffectual attempts, then one of them gets a decent opening.

So I've got an idea. Strange fighting styles. We can assume everybody knows unskilled street fighting, but when some brotha with a huge afro comes up doing some kung-fu shit from the far east? He get's a +3 on fighting rolls. But every time you fight somebody with that same far out style, you learn better how to deal with it, so it becomes a +2 the second time, +1 the third time, and finally you know how to deal with it.

rolled 6 = 6

>>17486575
Also the dark heresy "hit location" chart would be awfully handy.

>>17486502
Well, a player doesn't nerd to say "roll off", he just needs to be less specific to initiate an action. Instead of launching his narrative before the roll, like normal, he just says, 'I'm attacking -this- target', and once the rolls are made and tallied, THEN launching his narrative. Which also means that what he describes does happen, instead of describing all his brutal foot-to-face actions, rolling a 1, and then saying "Oh, I guess none of that happened".

>>17486575

That's the same system as The Riddle of Steel, you know. I'm fine with that, but it looks like some dudes here don't want to roll with that.

So, one thing to think about is that opposed rolls have more swing than rolls against static numbers. If you roll a d20+9 vs AC 10, you will always hit. But if you roll a d20+9 vs d20, you will hit often but not always. You're rolling on a curve.

>>17486672

Well yeah, but the way this >>17486096

is, something always happens. Even if it's just a single point of damage.

why not have a static threshold to hit/miss
say a roll of 15 after bonuses/penalties
no matter what the defender rolls this always misses if below 15.

if the roll is above 15 then the defender rolls. beating the attackers roll by +5 equals a parry, +10 is a dodge and +15 is a counter attack.

something like this, I just threw those numbers together so they are probably not realistic.

>>17486628
Yeah. I like it, but it will change how counters work. Normally PC A would be like, "I try to hit him in the head with my bat," and PC B would say, "I try to catch his bat in my chain". Then they would roll. With this, that wouldn't happen; the winner would just say, "I do this". Not a problem except for a system where we have predefined maneuvers where you counter X with Y.

>>17486743

The original idea

>>17486096

still specifies an attacker and defender.

>>17486781
wait. what?
I'm saying that if Y "chain-grab" specifically counters X "bat-swing", then the defender can't do that. Because the attacker only declares that he is attacking beforehand, not how. If the attacker loses, he doesn't define his attack, X, so the defender can't counter it. If the attacker wins and defines it as X "bat to the skull", the defender can't counter it because he lost the roll off. Thus, no predefined moves/counter moves.

Oi, how about a gang based entirely around the life and times of Napoleon Bonaparte? They could be called the Bones, or something like that.

The party starts off as a few dudes from a big-ass gang called the Francos. They work as internal enforcers for a while, but quickly start getting sent into other gangs' turf.

They start to develop a rep as bad motherfuckers, and when some of the Fracos' lieutenants try to take over the gang, the PCs are brought on board to muscle out the old leadership. The PCs betray the old lieutenants and they take over the gang, instead. Once they've got a good solid grip on the gang, they chance the gang's name to "the Bones."

They spent most of the campaign expanding their turf, and becoming hated by every single other Manhattan gang.

It starts going to hell once they pick a fight with a larger gang, maybe called the "Abreks" (pretty much Russian slang meaning bloke). The Bones set off on the warpath and bring almost all of their members into the Abreks's turf, but they don't see any of them. They march further and further into the Abreks's turf, until they reach the heart of their turf, and are ambushed by cops or something (I can't think up a good metaphor for the Russian winter). The Bones have to make a hasty retreat back into their turf, but find the Fracos's old leadership waiting, along with the bosses of a few other gangs, who promptly make death threats and quite literally kick the PCs out of Harlem.

Continued in a sec

>>17486944
Cont.

The Francos basically become the other gangs' bitches, and as soon as the PCs can rally themselves, they march back into their old turf, where their old soldiers welcome them back with open arms, and they depose the old leadership (again) and re-establish the Bones.

The PCs immediately go back on the warpath and do what they do best; taking shit over. They work like they used to, only they expand more aggressively then ever, knowing that that's the only way their gang won't fall apart.

At the end of the campaign, the Bones face off against the combined members of nearly every gang in Manhattan, lead by a gang called the Dukes. They fight them in a water treatment plant or something (waterloo), and they have the biggest punch up that the City's ever seen. If the Bones win, they take over all of Manhattan, and rule it's underworld with an iron fist, and if they loose, they're kicked out of New York, and threatened to be killed on sight if they ever return.

No comments on Napoleonic parable? That makes me sad, yo.

>>17486934

I guess if you absolutely need to define everything beforehand. Although that doesn't happen in any game, ever, because I didn't cut his throat rolling 1 over AC.

If attacker loses, and defender has enough points left to counter, he says 'I adroitly roll around his fist and flip him over my shoulder. And then stomp on his face.'

Just a quick thought on the stat names. Instead of Speed, how about Quicks or Hustle? That's all I got.

>>17487011
I like it. And you gotta remember, it's fairly late in most of the western hemisphere (almost 5 am where I'm at). Give it some time.

>>17487255
Hustle sounds pretty good if nothing else. Better than speed, especially for the other meanings of the word.

>>17487313
How about Twitch?

I JUST WOKE UP AND I THINK THIS THREAD DESERVES A BUMP!

>>17487313
>>17487255
Gonna need a stat called flow then.

>>17488004

Here's a bump as I have nothing else to contribute with.

>ctrl-f "Catfight"
>one result

>ctrl-f "Jivers"
>two results

Oh, /tg/. Always making new systems when you don't have to.

>>17489361
J&J is thematically similar, 70's NYC, but rules-wise not really what we're going for. The other one seems a lot closer

The only thing I never liked about the original Warriors was how they killed off two of them like complete pansies. also bump

>>17483990
Make one for Romance of the Three Kingdoms!
Cao Cao's Gang?
Lu Bu's Gang?
Fuck, anything in the story.

Bumping with an idea.

I think the point system is deviating a bit from what we're trying to do here.

Maybe the points shouldn't be random, but a number you use for actions. Maybe they act like bonuses or something, so when you use your bonus, which we will name with a funny slang later, you get less or even nothing to spend on your reaction rolls in that round, but if you don't spend them to attack, and just "stand your ground" like in the demo story up there, you get a bonus for reacting to someone's action.

I think this would work better than dice difference.

Also, if we're going with base bonuses as little as +1 or +2, we should definitely use something like a d10 or d12.

has this been archived yet?

>>17491870

Yes it has

Seriously? Nobody is going to say Werewolf: the Forsaken?

Savage worlds already has this stuff. Not trying to be anti-fun, but it's very similar to what you guys are making, right down to tweakable edges that are descriptive of the characters. Just saying.

>>17491947

Why?

What's up with that?

>>17491952

Links please, I'd like to run a The Warriors game using savage worlds too.

>>17491947

I fail to see the connection.

>>17491956
W:tF is all about packs and territories, gaining respect from the other werewolves in town so they don't think you're weak and unable to protect your turf. Sure, you have a werewolf pack instead of a multi-racial gang of outcasts, but other than that, the spirit is the same.

>>17491969

Bumping this

There are 4 SIZES of dice: d6, d8, d10, and d12. Each size represents a degree of skill or ability. A d6 is grandmas; d12 is Grand Masters.

A character has two abilities called FIGHT and COUNTER. Each has a corresponding size of die. PCs start with a d10 in both.
A character has two abilities called WOUND and TKO. Each has a static score. PCs start with W:10 TKO:20

When a character takes a number of hits equal to his Wound, his Fight and Counter are reduced by one size.
When a character takes a number of hits equal to his TKO, he is out of the fight.

STARTING A FIGHT
When a fight starts, one side get's THE JUMP.
The player's roll a die equal to the highest FIGHT among their characters, and the GM does likewise.
Whoever has the higher score gets the jump, and that side goes first.
Order of play goes clockwise around the table. Every character gets one turn a round.

ON YOUR TURN:
First pick an opponent to SQUARE OFF with.
Then you roll your Fight die and your opponent rolls his Counter die.
Compare the numbers; whoever got the higher number wins.
Subtract the loser's number from the winner's number.
The remainder is the winner's point BUDGET for making MOVES

Now the winner declares his MOVES
If the winner is Countering, his first Move must be to BLOCK
Multiple Moves must be done in a legal series, called COMBOS.
(Make sure to note the last Move used, as Combos can continue across turns)
The winner's Moves inflict a number of HITS on the loser

The Square Off ends

THE BASIC MOVES
These are the Moves that anyone can do. To make an initial move, you spend points from your Budget. After you make an initial Move, you must spend points on one of its legal FOLLOW-UPS. If you don't have enough points to make a follow up, then the square off ends. If there is no follow up, then the combo ends and the square off ends. If you have unspent points at the end of a square off, they are lost.

BLOCK: 1pt. Follow Ups: use previous move's follow-ups
If you countered, your first move must be to block. Blocking inflicts no hits.
GRAB: 1pt. Follow Ups: jab, bash, bite, pass, take, trip,
A grab is a weak attack, but useful for chains. It inflicts one hit.
JAB: 1pt. Follow Ups: bash, grab, pass, trick,
A jab is a fast weak attack. It inflicts one hit.
BASH: 2pts. Follow Ups: None
A bash is a great attack, but it always ends a chain of combos. It inflicts three hits.
WHACK: 3pts. Follow Ups: None
A whack is an attack with a weapon or object. This is a powerful attack, but has few combos. It inflicts hits based on the weapon.
TRIP: 2pts. Follow Ups: bash, jab, pass, stomp
A trip knocks an opponent to the ground. It inflicts either one hit, or two hits if you trip them into scenery.
STOMP: 3 pts. Follow Ups: bash, grab, pass,
A powerful attack, but it can't start a combo. It inflicts five hits.
BITE: 1 pt. Follow Ups: grab, jab,
A good attack, but it can't start a combo and can be used only once in a chain. It inflicts 2 hits.

TRICK: 1pt. Follow Ups: bash, bite, jab, pass, take, throw, trip, whack,
You do a feint or tricky maneuver. It inflicts no damage and can only be used once in a chain.
THROW: 1pt. Follow Ups: grab, jab, recover
You throw your weapon. It inflicts two hits. Or you can throw it out of the scene.
TAKE: 1pt. Follow Ups: pass, throw, whack
You either take your opponent's weapon, or take a weapon from the scenery.
PASS: 1pt. Follow Ups: Special
You signal a teammate for help. He can use your last MOVE for his own series of combos.
RECOVER: 1pt. Follow Ups: jab, whack, recover
You regain 1 hit.
GUN: 4pts. Follow Ups: None
You shoot a gun. Your opponent dies.

WEAPONS:
Weapons can be almost anything from bricks to nun-chucks to color TVs.
Weapons have three tiers: crap, good, wicked. Crap weapons inflict three hits, good weapons inflict four hits, and wicked weapons inflict five hits.
The first time a character uses a weapon it inflicts one extra hit.

SPECIAL MOVES:
Characters can have special moves. Special move work just like a normal move, but they are more powerful and have extra restrictions.

Poison Fist: 1pt. Follow ups: None
Poison Fist can be used in a combo in place of a Bash. Poison fist can only be used once a fight, and it must be used on a wounded opponent. Poison Fist inflicts 6 hits.
Follow ups: None

Comeback Smack: 2pt Follow Ups: same as Jab
Comeback Smack can be used in a combo in place of a jab. You can only use Comeback Smack while Countering. It inflicts 1 hit on your opponent, and you recover from two hits.

>>17492116

I like the idea of dice size, but as some people have mentioned, I think using the difference in the rolls for choosing your moves is counter-intuitive.
You should declare your move, and the defender should declare his reaction, and then both roll to see who succeeds.

Jesus Christ, this seems perfect.

>>17492171
Is it counter intuitive, or is it just different from standard games? Like if you taught this to a newbie, would they find it any weirder than D&D?

I was just trying to riff off the suggestions we had so far. I'm not married to any one idea.

>>17492171 Here

Now that I read your complete list, it does look good.

We could work on it, but I still think it'd be too complex for the kind of fast fight we're trying to do.
Well, let's flesh it out more and see how it works out.

I could also print out the % chance of die vs.die type. It makes sort of a weird, flattened bell curve. But obviously, bigger is always better.

My basic idea was to have as few calculations as possible. There's no die roll to adjust with various modifiers. You just roll, compare, and subtract. It's Flash-Card math, because the two numbers are right there before your eyes.

That list looks good, but I liked the Action vs. Reaction system a bit better.

Like, each action having it's table of reactions, you know? Makes more sense, to me at least.

The "point budget" system is kinda abstract, as in, if you win a counter, you don't know exactly what you're countering, since the attack only happens if you win the opposed roll.

So you wouldn't have stuff like someone dodging out of the way of a pipe, or kicking someone while they're trying to grab them.

the complexity comes from having a list of moves that the player would have to get familiar with. Maybe a flow chart would help? To show what moves lead into what moves would help. I can't think of any other way to handle "Chaining Combos" though.

>>17492301

my thoughts exactly

buying moves with points is better for something like a one-on-one fighting game system. For a street brawl you need something faster.

>>17492301
>That list looks good, but I liked the Action vs. Reaction system a bit better.

Yeah, that's the weirdness. I put the block move in for that. So there has to be some nod to the fact you are defending against an attack. (Also it's like a one point tax for defending to make it a tad weaker.)

>>17492330

Chaining combos should be done by the players, not the system.

Like, you succeed in grappling someone, bashing their head against the wall, then throwing them at someone else.

>>17492377

The thing is that it takes away the idea of dynamic fighting we were evolving to. I really like the point budget system, but it would be too complex for this.

>>17492344
Yeah, the buying/chaining moves would be the slow part, but it might be fun enough to make it worthwhile. Because the player has to describe what he's doing as he picks his moves: "I knee a guy in the crotch, then I grab him by the hair, and I throw him into pile of paint cans, and then stomp him in the spine while he's rolling around."
And I took out damage rolls for speed, each maneuver has a set number of hits it inflicts. Your damage is really about equal to the number of points you get to spend.

>>17492460

The thing with that system is that two problems arise:

First, the active player is just spending points to deal damage, giving no chance for the reactive player to counter each move, which was the point of the AvR system.

Second, sometimes you wont be able to do the combo you want because you didn't get enough points on your roll, which could kill the fun.

As I said earlier, we should try out both systems, but first we must find people willing to play test this.

>>17492390
Unless the players are actually going to physically fight each other, it will be done the system.

>>17492541

haha, derp, I failed to express my self.

I mean the chaining itself. Like, there's no actual CHAIN system, it is just done by the player succeeding multiple actions and the defender failing his reactions.

Bumpty bump

There was a Prognium highschool thread with the same idea about in-school gangs between the various factions.

BUMP

Frank Drake is part of King English's Carnasie Mob. He managed an unbelievable score, stealing a crate full of gold watches from the Puerto Ricans. The leader of the Puerto Ricans, Fat Philly, is enraged. He orders his men to bring him frank's head. Or Else! They send thugs out to watch all the subway lines and bridges. But Frank is too clever to get caught that way. He hires an old pontoon boat--the Golden Hind--to sail him around Manhattan, around Brooklyn, and back to Canarsie. The problem is that the old tub breaks down or needs gas every fifteen minutes. He has to make frequent stops, dealing with the Californians, the Chinese Triads, Cannibals, and everyone else who wants to steal his gold watches, and all while avoiding the Puerto Ricans. Can he circumnavigate the 5 bouroughs?

ok im hurrying so apologies if any of this has come up before.
so how about we divide weapons into either sharp or blunt first for two catch all categories
than we divide them by weight heavy medium and light
then as far as an attack roll goes you chose a target on the persons body, head arms chest stomach ect.
then you have the oposed roll that was discussed earlier, roll off and compare. then have a table similar to the crit table from DH and have it be modified by how sucesful the attack was.
you could also implement a more abstract hp system that represents "the will to fight" but this would mean that its not really an abstraction like HP its just how damaged your character is and whether he can keep going or not

sorry if its disorganized or bad spelling