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  • File : 1268323042.jpg-(529 KB, 1000x679, 1094823.jpg)
    529 KB Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)10:57 No.8526381  
    So yesterday, I asked for some help for a plane pick for an upcoming RPG
    http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8515581/

    In the end, based on the advice given, I am going to buy an F-4 phantom initially. I've wiki'd it, but I'd like to know more about it's capabilities. I'm also waiting for an email with our first mission brief, so if anyone wants to help out with my loadout for my first mission that would be cool.

    These are the planes in our group so far
    Air Sup
    Flanker
    Phantom
    Multirole
    Me- Phantom
    Mirage F1
    Strike
    Aardvark
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)10:59 No.8526399
    AARDVARK
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:00 No.8526408
    >>8526381
    Who's the idiot who took a Phantom for Air Superiority?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:01 No.8526418
    >>8526381
    Damn, that's an awesome archive! Reading now.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:01 No.8526423
    Out of curiosity, what system are you using for this, OP? Or is it more freeform?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:03 No.8526436
    >>8526408
    I belive it was mentioned in the last thread that if he purchased a super-cool Plane he would have nothing but the integral cannon for a few missions.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:08 No.8526476
    >>8526436
    Yeah, but the other guy has a FLANKER. I mean, Tomcat at the very least, or maybe an early gen Eagle. Both are superior Air to Air choices.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:09 No.8526479
    >>8526436

    Again, who's the idiot who chose the phantom for air superiority? They took the cannon out of the phantom's design because "The era of such close quarters dogfighting was over". All subsequent planes were designed with cannons because it was found that not having one was such a retarted concept that got too many people killed.

    Ontop of that, the phantom had SHIT maneuverability. It's said that it took FOREVER to just turn the damn thing. With a Mirage and Flanker on your team? you best bet you're the weakest link and all you're good for is screaming in at full thrust to drop bombs and get the fuck out of there.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:12 No.8526503
    >>8526423
    Our GM has built the system, using pieces of other systems. I'm not too worried, steve has always been awesome with vehicle combat, he's never shied away from it. He told us that there might be a few bugs initially as he irons out the ruleset, but if we were cool with that, he'd love to test out this new one with us, since according to him its the one he's been trying to perfect for more than a year, air combat.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:13 No.8526519
    >>8526479
    The Phantom is an awesome BVR fighter, since it can carry a fuckload of missiles. WHy bother closing with the enemy in a dogfight, just dump some Sparrows and watch him die.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:14 No.8526522
    >>8526479
    The Phantom has a cannon in it... Look at op's picture.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:15 No.8526532
    >>8526503
    I see. I was just wondering because I thought maybe there was some awesome game with aerial combat out there I hadn't heard of. So here's to hoping it works out well.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:17 No.8526545
    >>8526532
    I don't know about an RPG, but "Birds of Prey" is a pretty rock solid air combat game.
    >> Cookie 03/11/10(Thu)11:19 No.8526562
    >>8526503
    If I recall from the last thread the guy who picked it added an Israeli upgrade kit to it as well. Which assumes he picked a later model F-4 that does include a cannon.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:20 No.8526572
    >>8526519

    that's exactly how it was designed, but exactly how it failed to work. Phantom ended up in WAY more close quarters dogfights than it should have been. I'm just saying, the OP is MUCH better off with an F14, F16, F15 or F18, seeing as they each of those were planes that REPLACED the phantom and each of them (save the F14) are still in service, making them having served longer than the F4.

    You may only have a gun for the first few missions, but trust me, you'll have an overall better investment.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:21 No.8526577
         File1268324475.jpg-(33 KB, 750x482, Goodyear_inflatoplane.jpg)
    33 KB
    You should get a Goodyear inflatoplane. You know, as backup.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:23 No.8526594
    >>8526572
    OP is multirole, I think his F4 choice is very strong. Also, the bVR issues the F4 had initially were caused by the lousy perfromance of the first BVR air to air missiles. Load up on AMRAAMs and the Phantom is a cheap effective weapons delivery platform.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:24 No.8526606
    OP, I hope you got yourself an F-4E and not an early model without a fixed 20mm vulcan!
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:33 No.8526675
    I thought the Viggen would've been a pretty good choice myself, considering the crappy runways OP's group will probably be expected to operate from.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:33 No.8526684
         File1268325239.jpg-(301 KB, 1280x866, 1660861.jpg)
    301 KB
    Fuck OP, your merc force has a Bear? Your GM has a sweet sense of total awesomeness!
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:38 No.8526730
    >>8526675
    The Viggen still needs a paved runway, it's not that rugged.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:40 No.8526754
    >>8526730
    Yeah, but it only needs 500 m of runway, and can also land on some extra-wide roads and highways.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:45 No.8526809
    >>8526675
    If you're talking about runways, they should've gotten a Harrier.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:48 No.8526833
    http://books.google.ca/books?id=qCUDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA61&dq=F-4%20Phantom&as_pt=MAGAZINES&a
    mp;rview=1&pg=PA61#v=onepage&q=&f=false

    http://books.google.ca/books?id=jCkDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA77&dq=F-4%20Phantom&as_pt=MAGAZINES&a
    mp;rview=1&pg=PA77#v=onepage&q=&f=false

    Some cool links from Popular science about the Aardvark and F5 specifically.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:51 No.8526873
    >>8526809
    Yes, that would have been pretty cool too. Downsides would include subsonic speed and not being able to take off vertically with a full load, but who cares when you can hover in place?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:57 No.8526920
    >>8526873
    Despite what Cameron and True Lies would have you believe, the Harrier isn't that capable of an aircraft. It's not bad at multirole, but it sacrifices a lot for it's V/STOL performance.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)11:58 No.8526930
    >>8526479
    There are plenty Phantom variants with integral guns, you know. That, and a modernised F-4 can bring AMRAAMs and the like to the party.

    The Germans actually had a nasty aggressor wing (JG 73) that was flying a combination of MiG-29s and F-4s and they brought up some really evil tricks when it came to exploiting the respective strenghts of the planes during all the exercises they flew against other NATO airforces.

    Want to go BVR? Those Phantoms have good modernised radar, AMRAAMs and can do missile guidance for the MiGs. Want to get stuck in? Say hello to MiG-29s with western avionics and AA-11 Archers. (Who happen to be superior to any western short-range AAMs short of the AIM-9x or IRIS-T.)
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:00 No.8526949
         File1268326822.jpg-(62 KB, 694x414, ares3.jpg)
    62 KB
    Rutan Ares 151, was only a prototype for a study in a cheap ground support aircraft. But it carried a GAU-12/U 25 mm rotary barreled cannon. Very neat craft. Also small and very cheap.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:05 No.8527002
         File1268327151.jpg-(34 KB, 530x677, x-31.jpg)
    34 KB
    Would your GM allow this? Because you'd win every dogfight, every time.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:07 No.8527019
    >>8526949

    Wow... that looks like something right out of Ace Combat (but I guess that should be expected from a Burt Rutan design)
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:18 No.8527124
         File1268327934.jpg-(21 KB, 409x327, Burt_Rutan_2.jpg)
    21 KB
    >>8527019
    I want Rutan chops.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:19 No.8527127
         File1268327947.jpg-(151 KB, 1023x680, Avro Vulcan.jpg)
    151 KB
    >>8526522
    >The Phantom has a cannon in it... Look at op's picture.
    >no visible cannon on OP's picture
    Hmmm
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:20 No.8527140
    >>8527127
    It's right under the nose...
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:21 No.8527146
    >>8526381
    P-51
    A-10
    Hobo strapped to some balloons
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:21 No.8527152
         File1268328095.jpg-(839 KB, 2100x1341, F15.jpg)
    839 KB
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:22 No.8527164
         File1268328178.jpg-(27 KB, 631x300, F18 and MiG29.jpg)
    27 KB
    >>8527140
    >It's right under the nose...
    Mate, that's an air scoop for some of the instruments. Look at how short the "pod" is and tell me they can fit a gun in there, let alone ammunition feeds.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:27 No.8527194
         File1268328440.jpg-(76 KB, 640x420, 0668220.jpg)
    76 KB
    >>8527164
    It's a gun mount dumbass.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:34 No.8527272
         File1268328874.jpg-(186 KB, 1280x847, F-16.jpg)
    186 KB
    >>8527194
    I love it when people pretend to know things
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:37 No.8527311
    >>8527272
    Hey shit for brains, That's an F-4E, with an M-61 Cannon mounted under the nose. Do you want a Jane's link or something?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:40 No.8527336
    >>8527164
    Doesn't matter if that dude's right or not, Phantoms have had guns since late Vietnam. It's a good choice, chill out.

    OP, I'll have a site for you in just a moment. Can you ask your GM about posting his ruleset somewhere for us to use ourselves? Also his price list?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:43 No.8527362
         File1268329424.jpg-(183 KB, 1017x755, yourewrongassholeF4cannon.jpg)
    183 KB
    >>8527127
    >>8527164
    >>8527272

    Yeah, sure looks like an 'air scoop' for avionics...
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:45 No.8527379
    >>8527362
    >Lol at file name.

    >>8527164
    You got told.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:46 No.8527382
    >>8527336
    http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/fighter/f4phantom.html#specifications

    FAS is good for unclassified specs. Will that suffice, or do you need more/other stuff?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:47 No.8527395
    Your loadout will depend on your mission, OP. If you post it for us, I'll be glad to help.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:51 No.8527431
         File1268329912.jpg-(197 KB, 736x1118, AREA 88 VOL 02 CH 11 PG 15 cop(...).jpg)
    197 KB
    Draken, the superior choice.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:54 No.8527462
    >>8527362
    OUch. Someone got proved wrong due to pics happening.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)12:55 No.8527474
         File1268330119.jpg-(366 KB, 1232x1840, Draken.jpg)
    366 KB
    >>8527431
    Dat double delta wing
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:00 No.8527534
    Question: Why don't most planes use delta wings? Why aren't most bombers flying wings? Don't both configurations have superior lift and capacity?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:02 No.8527555
    >>8527534
    Many modern fighters use a combination of Delta wings and Canards, or cropped delta surfaces.

    Having a pure delta, and only a delta design bleeds too much energy in dogfighting and I think it lowers performance in low altitude flying.

    Still very good for high-altitude interceptors though.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:02 No.8527556
    >>8527534
    Not at all speeds, and certainly not at all price points they are built at.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:02 No.8527559
    >>8527534
    Delta sucks at slower speeds in most cases.
    >> planefag 03/11/10(Thu)13:03 No.8527570
         File1268330608.jpg-(37 KB, 370x300, 1266039754155.jpg)
    37 KB
    >>8526479

    >Thinks the only way to dogfight is with a hard left turn

    OP: Everything depends on your target, naturally, but an excellent multi-role loadout would be two sidewinders (or whatever good short-range IR missile you're using,) and four Mk-82 500lb iron bombs. Or six, however many the F-4 can carry (i.e. a lot.) You can swap that for laser-guided ones if you have a FLIR pod to designate, and laser guidance kits for those bombs, or cluster bombs for soft targets. A mix of Rockeye cluster bombs and Mk-84 2,000 lbs bombs works great against mixed soft/hard targets.

    Your sidewinders are simply for self-defense. If you plan on more air-to-air, four medium-range radar guided missiles and four 500lb bombs will serve you well.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:03 No.8527572
    >>8527534
    >>Why aren't most bombers flying wings?

    Harder to fly those. If you want them reliable and safe, you need really good electronics.
    >> Sauber !f1v85QnTcU 03/11/10(Thu)13:05 No.8527592
    It turns slow as shit and can only get into mach 1 with afterburners unless you get a modernized one, so I'd suggest you GET THE FUCK OUT OF DODGE when dogfighting goes down and stay in the bomber role.
    >> planefag 03/11/10(Thu)13:07 No.8527615
         File1268330836.jpg-(43 KB, 715x550, high_speed_yoyo.jpg)
    43 KB
    >>8527592

    >turns like shit lol

    SO FUCKING WHAT
    >> Sauber !f1v85QnTcU 03/11/10(Thu)13:13 No.8527690
    >>8527615
    Jesus christ don't pop a vein
    I was just saying that the system probably isn't gonna be incredibly detailed the the F-4 might not be able to turn very well in the GM's system
    Christ you're a shithead
    >> planefag 03/11/10(Thu)13:13 No.8527691
         File1268331198.png-(28 KB, 385x305, Roller.png)
    28 KB
    Pictured- the rolling scissors, a maneuver where power/weight ratio is more important then turn rate.
    >> planefag 03/11/10(Thu)13:14 No.8527702
         File1268331263.jpg-(74 KB, 246x310, 1259385400969.jpg)
    74 KB
    >>8527690

    I dunno, broseph. This guy is running a game that seems to be 100% oriented around plane geekage. He might know his shit.
    >> Sauber !f1v85QnTcU 03/11/10(Thu)13:14 No.8527703
    >>8527691
    Not pictured: The possibility that the GM hasn't worked complicated manuevers into his system and he's just assigned arbitrary turn rates that will fuck OP over
    >> planefag 03/11/10(Thu)13:15 No.8527719
         File1268331338.jpg-(27 KB, 320x295, rwrvb2.jpg)
    27 KB
    >>8527702

    I didn't notice that that was a YOU MAD macro, here, have a better Reagan.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:16 No.8527733
    What system?
    >> Sauber !f1v85QnTcU 03/11/10(Thu)13:17 No.8527738
         File1268331448.jpg-(60 KB, 281x228, 1261928354173.jpg)
    60 KB
    >>8527719
    u mad reagan?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:17 No.8527742
    >>8527733
    >>8527733

    Some homebrew thing.

    If we beg and plead perhaps OP will share his GM's system.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:18 No.8527746
    >>8527742
    Do want.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:19 No.8527755
         File1268331540.gif-(715 KB, 180x135, shootdown2df.gif)
    715 KB
    >>8527738

    Don't go away, OP! We're sorry the thread wasn't good!
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:19 No.8527757
    >>8527703
    >>8527690
    >>8527592

    From the previous thread it is quite clear the OP doesn't need to be shititng bricks over his choice of initial plane.

    Sounds like the GM is an understanding GM that isn't of the "GM vs Players" mindset.

    It is just as likely that his F-4 May perform better in the tabletop then in the real world.

    No one should be getting too worked up over the nitty gritty without seeing the system. (Hell without playing it.)
    >> Sauber !f1v85QnTcU 03/11/10(Thu)13:19 No.8527759
    >>8527755
    Planefag did it
    also is dat some arma 2?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:20 No.8527769
    >>8527759
    Well both of you stop and shake hands then. We don't care who started it.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:21 No.8527778
    "I'm a fighter pilot, Tex. Not a murderer. Return to base."

    youtube.com/watch?v=oAdikjwJ2vs
    >> Sauber !f1v85QnTcU 03/11/10(Thu)13:22 No.8527781
         File1268331722.jpg-(63 KB, 640x560, 1262113560727.jpg)
    63 KB
    >>8527769
    B-b-but
    he's trying to take my soviet missiles
    >> planefag 03/11/10(Thu)13:22 No.8527785
         File1268331739.gif-(824 KB, 180x135, a10dive3ec.gif)
    824 KB
    >>8527759

    NO U

    Actually that GIF is from Lock On. I've got a few of my own on my hard drive. This one is particularly epic. A-10 schools carrier.

    Great simulator, shitty single-player game, like most of Ubisoft's stuff.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:24 No.8527816
    >>8527778
    All I remember is the excellent soundtrack:
    youtube.com/watch?v=5qsjTOF62Z
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:24 No.8527822
    Can we at least have a rundown of how the system works?
    >> Sauber !f1v85QnTcU 03/11/10(Thu)13:25 No.8527829
    >>8527785
    Goddamn fuck you just pop that vein already
    OP hope your gm has a system for aerial manuevers and some deus ex machina to save your ass like an ejector seat and armored to hell cockpit
    >> planefag 03/11/10(Thu)13:27 No.8527856
    >>8527829

    >dogfight system without aerial manuvers

    You'd have to be a special kind of retarded to make that, I think.

    Unless it's Crimson Skies, which is kind of like Battlemechs that FLY, etc.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:30 No.8527880
    >>8527785
    pretty much.

    I liked the depth of learning when it came to flying a new plane though.

    The Frogfoot in particular has a soviet style epic simpleness to it that always made me smile.

    >>radar? we don't need no stinking radar.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:32 No.8527917
    >>8527785
    This is in-game?

    That's fucking awesome.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:34 No.8527935
    >>8527880
    God, i was so glad it had no radar. I spent most of my time in the SU-27 fighting with the fucking pan and scan system to get a goddamn lock.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:34 No.8527939
    I'm a little sad that the EA-6B got veto'd ;_;

    I'm not a fan of the f-4, historically they had a very high maintenance cost and weren't so hot on the maneuverability/agility side of things. Kind of like flying buses.


    OP, if you want info on the F-4 wiki was a good start. I would also suggest looking on youtube for the history channel's Dogfights series. Find one about vietnam they are usually about f-4's. You'll get to hear mission stories retold by actual pilots.


    As far as I know, the f-4 handles like shit, consumes a huge amount of fuel and is ancient by today's standards. Make sure you get a later model that includes an integral canon as the first models were built without them.

    Extensive upgrades to the electronics/radar/ACM/ECM/EVERYTHING are MANDATORY if you want to survive in modern day aerial combat.


    An f-4 is kind of like a late 60's muscle car. If you're willing to put a fuckton of work and money into it, you can get the thing going down a drag strip real fucking good. But it'll never corner, handle, accelerate or brake like a modern day sports car.

    hope that helps.
    >> planefag 03/11/10(Thu)13:34 No.8527941
    >>8527917

    Yes, that's in-game recording. Dodging naval SAM's like he's fucking batman.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:34 No.8527945
    >>8527917
    LOMAC, the best Aerial sim since Falcon 4, or any Janes game.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:36 No.8527966
    >>8527939
    All true, but the F-4 has ridiculous straight line speed, sexy looks (that counts), and burners that only have two settings: Off, and OH GOD MY SPINE, IT SHATTERED MY SPINE!
    >> planefag 03/11/10(Thu)13:36 No.8527967
    >>8527939

    Why don't you look up the Dogfights episode where Duke Cunningham details how his fatass F-4 Phantom managed to kick the shit out of a Vietnamese ace flying the super-manuverable MiG-17?

    I'll go ahead and blow that vein now.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:40 No.8528016
    >>8527945
    >LOMAC
    >Sim
    Oh, come on, now.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:46 No.8528070
    >>8527967
    I have seen it.

    American pilots have historically been the most well-trained and best-equipped pilots in war. If the OP happens to be Duke Cunningham, and can be sure that his campaigns will only ever plot him against the MiG-17, then he should be fine.

    Also, the MiG-17 was built in 1950, the f-4 in 1960. I could pound out a list for you, but the f-4 was superior to the mig-17 in almost every way (other than the aforementioned agility).
    My point is that if the OP is a modern setting, using the mig-17 as a benchmark for the f-4's performance and potential is fucking stupid.
    >> planefag 03/11/10(Thu)13:47 No.8528084
    >>8528070

    >modern setting

    They're mercenaries operating out of South America.

    Short version- no, it's not a modern setting.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:50 No.8528118
    Meh, make it a modern German or Israeli-upgraded F4 and it will do just fine.

    With the planes in the OP, the Mirage and the Flanker can do the dogfighting while the Phantoms habg back and lob the occasional AMRAAM.

    Also, the F-4 is win for it's sheer ugliness alone. The Triumph of Thrust over Aerodymics.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:50 No.8528119
    South America still uses prop planes in their air forces because of the reduced cost of maintenance.

    A jet fighter'll kick ass down there.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:53 No.8528156
         File1268333611.jpg-(107 KB, 349x349, LIFT_SURFACES.jpg)
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    >>8528118

    >Thrust over Aerodynamics
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:56 No.8528197
    >>8528119

    Hugo has been spending his oil profits to buy Su-30's though, and Brazil is deciding this month of they're getting Gripens or Rafales (or Super Hornet but that's a nil chance). Otherwise it's pretty much outdated.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:57 No.8528207
    >>8528197

    >Hugo Chavez with Su-30s

    This does not please me.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:59 No.8528231
    >>8528197
    And there you have your final boss.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)13:59 No.8528236
         File1268333994.jpg-(53 KB, 445x496, 1241209180165.jpg)
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    >>8528231

    I WANT IN ON THIS GAME
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:01 No.8528256
    >>8528207

    He bought about a hundred T-72's modernised to near T-90 standards too, so there's plenty of ground targets too. Venezuela's neighbours don't have proper MBT's and fighters at all, so yeah.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:06 No.8528312
    >>8528256

    That's just, absolutely, fucking, fantastic. I hope his neighbors aren't counting too heavily on US intervention.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:07 No.8528318
         File1268334429.jpg-(144 KB, 674x565, maridamissionsat.jpg)
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    OP again, got this from the GM about five minutes ago.

    BlackFlag Internal Document #100298

    Mission Briefing “Horse Therapy”
    Deployment: Kisangani
    Pancake: Kisangani
    Alternate: None (We are still negotiating with the provisional government)
    AAR: None
    AWACS: None
    CSAR: MI-24 Hind + Jaeger Flight. Eight Million Sortie Fee if utilized

    Contract Employer: Ministre de Sécurité Externale, France

    Objective: Destruction of suspected Sudan terrorist training camp and airfield located at the old Marida airfield, just inside the Sudanese border. Primary targets are the airfield runway, fuel dump in the southeast, and the command bunker to the north northwest.

    Background: These guys have been a thorn in the side of France's efforts to pacify the region. Due to UN regulations as well as their own civil government issues, the French have not had the ability to simply remove this training camp. That's where we come in. Taking out the command bunker will most likely remove some key leadership positions, and with the airstrip gone, will force the OPFOR to move on the ground, where the French security force has a presence and a good chance of catching and stopping them.

    (Part two to follow, long doc)
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:07 No.8528327
    >>8528318
    And the rest of the mission Brief:
    Intel (HUMINT free): OPFOR likely disorganized, undertrained. Equipment status rated at no better then barely serviceable. Most equipment unmanned unless alert given. OPFOR operates off grid, and does not benefit from outside intel, support, elint.
    Air Assets: Two MiG-17s, One MiG-21, Two Bell Huey Gunships.
    Surface Assets: SA-2 system, 4xZSU-23 at objective.
    Intel (Remote Imaging free): Attached you will find the latest keyhole pass. We've marked off targets and defences. We could not find the fourth ZSU-23, and suspect that the OPFOR has begun camo-netting the emplacements, or simply placed it inside for maintenance.

    Threat Assessment: Very Low. The biggest threats will be from the MiG-21 and the SA-2 system, neutralize them first, and the rest of this mission should be a cakewalk.

    ROE: No limits in Sudanese Airspace. Return fire only in DRC airspace.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:11 No.8528378
    >>8528318
    >>8528327
    Your GM is boss.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:15 No.8528421
    >>8528207
    Don't worry too much about it, Venezuela doesn't have the logistics to properly maintain the entire fleet, about half of them are going to be undergoing maintenance at any given time, and considering the bad reputation that Russian engines have for their short lifetimes I think it's going to inflict a heavy financial burden on Venezuela in the long run. As of now they are barely able to train their pilots, and certainly not properly. The Indian Air Force would rape them on a 1:1 basis.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:15 No.8528431
         File1268334952.gif-(1.21 MB, 160x160, fenriz.gif)
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    >>8528318
    >>8528327
    FUCK YEAH
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:19 No.8528471
    Your likely going to want to kit out more for anti-ground in this mission. Keep some spare AA weapons otherwise load up.

    What are the prices involved of such?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:19 No.8528479
    >>8528471
    If you can bomb out the runway before the Migs get in the air you don't have to worry about them anymore.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:20 No.8528485
    >>8528431
    I wish my own GM put in 10% the energy this guy's GM does. I just looked up the stuff in the briefing, the guy used actual sat imagery of that airfield, all the places are real, I mean, shit, this is fucking awesome!
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:29 No.8528599
    Ok assholes, we have a mission now.

    From what OP has told us, this looks to be a strike mission for the most part.

    OP's crew is flying:
    Flanker and Phantom as Air to Air
    Phantom and Mirage as Multi Role
    Aardvark as Air to Ground.

    The airfield has a lot of Close in anti-air. The SA-2 isn't a huge threat, but it has range, and detection abilities. Anyone know the range between these airfields, to get an idea what fuel loadout should be?

    I'm thinking one of the multiroles goes wild weasel, the other goes Anti-Tank, the Aardvark takes the heavy GBU's and maybe a cluster bomb or two for the runway and bunker. The fuel depot is soft enough that it shouldn't present a problem, iron bombs or a single cluster would do it in.

    The Weasel role would probably be good for OP. Just shoot at radiating targets. It should eliminate the SA-2, and as a benefit, the ZSUs will have to fire without radar targeting, making them much less dangerous for the Mirage to clean up.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:31 No.8528619
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    >>8528599
    The last parts made me think of bitchin' attack helicopters.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:32 No.8528637
    >>8528619
    Fuck you! You just had to post that?

    Installin'...
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:32 No.8528639
    OP, two things.

    How do I get in on this?
    When is your GM going to release his rules?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:33 No.8528654
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    >>8528619
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:34 No.8528667
    From the previous thread I gather that you will have to pay for your own ordinance, fuel, and maintenance.

    Of course you could spring for radar seeking ATGs, Sensor Fused Munitions for the ZSUs, an up to date Maverick for the bunker, and some giant cluster bomb for the runway, plus a few AIM-120Cs in case they get their feet off the ground. But unless you buy wholesale from the producer, these will set you back a few millions.

    Instead slap some JDAGs on a few 500lbs dookies and drop them from ceiling height, one for each AA, three over the runway, and maybe a 2000lbs puppy for the bunker. Then napalm what's left (can't beat that value) and keep a few advanced ATGs and ATAs in reserve just to be save. You can bring them back home if everything works out. Wouldn't set you back much more than 500,000 including fuel.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:34 No.8528671
    yeah, the real problem are those fucking ZSU-23s. Those niggers are mean up close and low. Come in low with your Phantom and pop cluster bombs on those fuckers while the Aardvark puts an Mk-84 on the Command bunker. A few Mk-82s on the runway will crater it and put it out of commission.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:37 No.8528715
    Doesn't sound too bad.

    Pack an anti-radiation missile to silence the Guideline and try to get in fast. One cluster or iron bomb on the fuel depot, a couple irons on the bunker and either some more iron bombs or anti-runway ckuster munitions against the runway. The AtA elements can stay outside the range of the Shilkas and intervene if any of those rusty old MiGs make it into the air before the runway is gone.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:38 No.8528723
    Sounds like the real trick is beating the mission while spending as little as possible.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:39 No.8528746
    Can they really just Iron Bomb the bunker though? I'd think we'd want a bunker buster of some type on that thing.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:41 No.8528770
    >>8528723
    Yeah, this is actually a really cool idea. I mean, a modern air force, this mission is easy. But when you are paying for ordinance, you want to be mission effective for the lowest cost...

    The more I read, the more I think OP's GM is some sort of gaming genius.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:44 No.8528798
    I agree with the guy who said that OP should go for the Wild Weasel role here.

    Also, see if you can't do some timing shenanigans with your raid. Have the rest of the force come in just long enough after the Weasel that the terrorists have started to man their planes, but not long enough for them to have gotten anything in the air. That way, you can kill their pilots (which are significantly harder to replace than a trashed runway) when you bomb the strip.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:44 No.8528806
    >>8528671
    Depends. If you circle your long F-4 loops over enemy territory ZSUs can be a problem. A fast NOE bomb run on the other hand would only have to worry about missing the SAM, which could then hail mary a seeker on his tail. Why do you think cannon based AA is obsolete save for close in defense? And a ZSU is no R2D2 Phalanx.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:45 No.8528809
    >>8528746
    Looking at the image, that thing looks like an above-ground bunker. Wasting a bunker-buster on that isn't needed. You hit that thing with a 1000 pounder (or a 2k pounder if you're feeling generous) and it's ruined and the guys inside will have the shittiest day of their lives.

    You want to do this cheap, the best way is to have 2 planes come in low and fast to take out the fuel depot and the bunker while the third one initialises the attack with an ARM to kill the SA-2 followed by flying somewhat higher over the runway, dropping a few 250-pounders on it. The Flanker and Phantom can stay in reserve in case something manages to get airborne before the runway gets redecorated.

    Pull that off and with a bit of luck, nobody will evne have the time to fire a shot at the strike package.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:49 No.8528851
    >>8528746
    You need bunker busters for reinforced concrete structures meters underground. For anything a pack of low techs can rig up with E-tools and burlap you need no bunker buster, unless you want to attack the aquifer below the bunker.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:51 No.8528886
    Anyone know about approaches here? I don't think terrain is going to provide a good buffer on Radar pick up, so coming in low, willhave to be REALLY low for these plans to work. And we're assuming that the baddies don't have an aircraft up in the air when the strike arrives. The 21 has a radar that could cause problems, even a small hit return and the base goes on alert.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:53 No.8528895
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    >>8526381
    This is stupid, a Valkyrie could do the job faster and better.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:56 No.8528933
    >>8528599
    I hope to hell that they have "Bombs over Baghdad" playing at the highest volume setting.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmY4FnxcN9E
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:56 No.8528943
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    >>8528895
    Agreed. And what is that bucket on your pic?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:57 No.8528956
    Once you finish up your primary mission, strafe the training camp's vehicle pool. If you can take out any technicals the OPFOR has, the French will thank you for it. Possibly in cashmoneys, or gear that you won't be able to find on the black market.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)14:59 No.8528978
    >>8528318
    >>8528327
    Reminds me of a game I ran, but with Heavy Gear.

    Mercs fo sho'

    Also, Google Earth is awesome for nice maps. Just need to piff them up in paint or photoshop.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:03 No.8529010
    >>8528667
    Lemme refine this into a sneak attack.

    Drop the JDAMs out of a cargo plane on a regular flight path. Declare emergency, report lost cargo, fly away.

    Then time the strike force to arrive in AA range just when the bombs hit. Unless they moved the AA (how old are your sat pics?) or scrambled a fighter just before you're golden. And if not your force should be far superior at this point and all you'd have to fear is a surprise Stinger at an inopportune moment.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:03 No.8529013
    >>8528956
    OP again, I think Steve mentioned that stuff like that being beneficial. "Positive Collateral" gets us more money during the debrief. He also said he is putting his stuff online, although it will take a while since he is at work.

    For my loadout, this is what I was thinking. Four AGM-78, 6x500lb bombs, Two AIM-7, Two AIM-9E sidewinders.

    I don't think I need a centreline tank.

    Thoughts?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:07 No.8529057
    >>8529013

    >AIM-7E

    fuck that POS. 20% hit rate? 3 second launch delay? High rate of hangfires? take two more sidewinders. They can take front-aspect shots just fine.

    The anti-radiation missiles will easily fuck over the ZSU's or the SA-2, take them.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:08 No.8529081
    >>8529057
    Actually, his sidewinders can't take front shots, he needs to upgrade them if he can.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:08 No.8529086
    >>8529013
    You don't need AIM-7s for those old Migs. All they can do is fly slowly and turn really well. Their climb rates are simply unacceptable and their weapon load is insufficient for most modern munitions.

    And strap JDAMs on those 500lbsers. With it they're fire and forget, without their spray and pray. And they're only 30,000 each.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:09 No.8529099
    >>8529013

    Four Standard ARMs? What for? Two should be plenty enough to kill that SAM and the Shilkas are better taken care of with a cluster bomb if you want them gone.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:10 No.8529108
    Op again,

    I'm heading out to work, back in about five hours or so.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:11 No.8529123
    And then the thread was dead.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:13 No.8529153
    >>8529099
    I've always been fond of taking extra. The worst that happens is that techs have to dismount it later.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:15 No.8529179
    >>8526572
    that's because of shitty vietnam AAMs, and foolish ROE preventing their use BVR.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:25 No.8529286
    >>8529099
    Remember that there's at least one missing ZSU-23. Easy way to find it that doesn't involve it shooting OP down is to wait for it to turn on its radar and then pop it.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:29 No.8529327
    >>8529013
    I'd say to scratch the AIM-7s and take some rocket or gun pods.

    Let the air superiority guys splash the enemy MiGs if they get in the air. On this mission, you're going to want more stuff to kill people on the ground.

    Oh, and just thought of something. Keep an eye out for MANPAD when you hit the camp. They might still have a few Stingers from old Afghanistan surplus.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:34 No.8529403
    all you need for the runway is a 500lb standard bomb

    make sure it's the first thing that drops, and your sir superiority guys can stay way up high and be bored for the whole mission (until inevitable SURPRISE ENEMY BACKUP of course)

    also, make sure to hit the middle of the runway. If you go for one end, the migs can taxi and take off from the other end.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:39 No.8529461
    >>8529403
    The air superiority guy with the Phantom should probably kit out with a ground mission in mind too.

    Alternatively, he and OP tag-team the enemy anti-air during the SEAD portion of the mission.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:42 No.8529516
    >>8529403
    Hell no, BLU-107 Durandals. The Aardvark is a prime carrier for those, and they create massive underground craters. The runway will be unusable, unrepairable. 500lb bomb on runway is a 24 hour fixit job.

    OP, take a rocket pod like someone mentioned if you can. And watch out for MANPADS, do all your runs hot, and with serious flares pumping.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)15:55 No.8529688
    Air superiority guys are going to be bored as shit on this mission.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:04 No.8529813
    >>8529688
    They can swat the helicopters if they want.

    Maybe bring a missile or two to frag some technicals.

    Otherwise yeah, this won't be real exciting for them.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:04 No.8529814
    >>8529516
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m-buvo3dj4
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:09 No.8529885
    I gotta ask OP, how much cash does your Flanker guy have left? And why did he buy Russian?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:12 No.8529914
    >>8529885
    Because Russian tech is superior to the shit in the rest of the goup.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:16 No.8529961
    >>8528895
    >>8528943

    Get that crap out of here.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:18 No.8529983
    Shouldn't this be a /k/ thing?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:24 No.8530058
    >>8529983

    well, it is advice for an RPG... and /tg/ = /tactical genius/
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:25 No.8530069
    Thanks for tipping me off on Area 88 guise.

    But I have to say that their maintenance requirements are treated the same way driving to a crime scene is on cop shows. And the mix of vastly different generations of fighter planes is just hilarious.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:25 No.8530074
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    >>8530058
    Tactical genius... for an air combat game... without maneuvers...
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:29 No.8530134
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    >>8530074
    now with motion!
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:33 No.8530172
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    Real planes for real men. I'll post some.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:34 No.8530180
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    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:37 No.8530218
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    Notice the 'special bomb'
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:38 No.8530235
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    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:42 No.8530287
    Bumping a sweet thread, and because I want those rules and prices that this awesome GM Steve has made. Guy's a pro.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:43 No.8530299
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    Failure.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:45 No.8530336
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    Mirage F1! Fuck yes!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krC9M4OD0Dg&feature=related
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:48 No.8530380
    >>8530299
    Wait, are those the Israeli Messerschmitts?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:49 No.8530392
    OP, remember to make your teammates shoulder an equal share of the ordinance expenses for the mission. I'd go for the EW role, and also ensure the SAM and AAA are taken care of. But bombing the runway, buildings, and taking out any airborne hostiles you should leave to your teammates. Otherwise, you're spending all your cash on ordinance, and they'll be getting a free ride.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:50 No.8530397
    >>8530218
    Well, that's the Skyraider for you. Can drop everything but the kitchen sink.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:51 No.8530426
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    Just remember, barrel rolls solve everything.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:53 No.8530458
    >>8530380
    Yeah, they bought them from France during their inital war after the creation of Israel, but France would not ship them, so the Irsaelis flew special ops to France, and stole the planes they bought, flew them to Israel, and then wiped the floor with their enemies.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:54 No.8530486
    >>8530287
    Yeah OP, if you're around, has your GM made a compilation of the rules he's used to construct the game? I realize it may be a clusterfuck of systems but it would be interesting to see if there's something you could upload.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:57 No.8530533
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    Mercs in modern high tech jets? Aw hell no. Propeller powered, up in this motherfucker! Doing old style air combat over some african or south american shithole, getting hired by warlords and drug dealers, air piracy, all the good stuff.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)16:57 No.8530537
    >>8530458
    >>Yeah, they bought them from France during their inital war after the creation of Israel, but France would not ship them, so the Irsaelis flew special ops to France, and stole the planes they bought, flew them to Israel, and then wiped the floor with their enemies.

    That's fucking awesome. I don't suppose you have a link or the name of the operation so I can read more?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)17:02 No.8530625
    >>8530537
    The guy got the details wrong. Something did happen with France and Israel, but it wasn't BF-109s.

    http://zionism-israel.com/his/israel_first_air_battle.htm
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)17:03 No.8530642
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustav_von_Rosen

    WHY IS THERE NO COUNT IN THIS THREAD?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)17:07 No.8530719
    >>8530625
    Oh, oka-

    >>zionism-israel.com

    Wat.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)17:08 No.8530735
    >>8530642
    This is awesome. A swede and a Canadian helping the French Secret service in Africa.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)17:23 No.8531040
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    bump
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)17:30 No.8531187
    Iz this sum Ace Combat RP?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)17:31 No.8531211
    Eagle is the best possible choice that isn't a next gen fighter.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)17:33 No.8531228
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    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)17:36 No.8531275
    >>8531211
    Not really.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)17:39 No.8531321
    Oh, OP, if you're still reading:

    If your GM wants you to finish missions with as little cost as possible, why not consider F-16s?
    They are probably more expensive than an F-4, but their performance is good and they are suitable for a lot of different roles. Overall, they're a good value buy, which is why so many nations use them instead of the more expensive fighters.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)17:40 No.8531354
    >>8531211
    When I think about it, you're right. Since OP wants multirole.
    The Eagle is a good plane but it's split into Eagle and Strike Eagle. His plane should be able to do both.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)18:01 No.8531707
    >>8530287
    Don't worry, 40k crap will have buried this thread soon, and then we will all forget about the awesome stuff tg can produce and go back to screaming FOR DUH EMPRAH
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)18:27 No.8531997
    Interesting scenario. I'd propose two possible solutions. In both, your Air Sup Phantom should load for multirole, too. Let's face it, the Flanker alone, equipped with some semi-modern AAMs, is going to eat those rusty buckets alive if they get airborne.

    Plan A:
    Hit'n'run. The Wild Weasel pops the SA-2. One plane drops a cluster bomb on the fuel and 1-2 1000-pounders on the command bunker. Plane 2 goes for the central ZSU and the hangar next to it with some irons and cluster bombs, Plane 3 for the runway with a couple 150-pounders or 1-2 Durandals (ask the frenchies if they can give you some). Pull it off and you can get out before anyone of these clowns can even react. Pro: Lower risk, lower ammo expenditure.

    Plan B: Complete supression. The WW again pops the SA-2. Plane 1 goes for the two southern ZSUs with clusterbombs, Plane 2 for the hangars and the center ZSU. Plane 3 for the runway, while the Wild Weasel tries finding and killing that last ZSU. After that, you can pop the bunker with some 1000-pounders, kill the runway and flatten everything looking vaguely valuable with smaller iron bombs and clusters while keeping high enough that MANPADS can't do shit. Pro: Lots of positive collateral.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)18:38 No.8532121
    Keeping a good thread alive with my bump.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)18:41 No.8532152
    >>8532121
    Should this be archived?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)18:43 No.8532184
    >>8531997
    I think the general consensus is that the biggest threat is coming from that SA-2.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)18:47 No.8532228
    >>8532152
    If OP delivers ruleset, then fuck yes. If not, still possibly, but I'm going to wait and see. This one hasn't been as good as last night's yet.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)18:48 No.8532241
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    >>8532184
    I'd be worried.
    Quarter ton of fragmentation explosive on a mach 3 and a half missile with a range of thirty miles and a ceiling of 68,000 ft. The SA2 might be old, but it's nothing to sneeze at.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)18:55 No.8532339
    >>8532241

    >flying telephone pole packed with eleventy billion pounds of explosives

    Yes. Yes, I think we should give the SA-2 the respect it deserves.

    However, I think the SA-2 has a rather high minimum altitude. Which is why I worry about the ZSU platforms more; they'll complicate the cluster bomb/Wild Weasel mission.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)18:59 No.8532401
    >>8532339
    Hehehehe, yeah, flying telephone pole is right, the thing is fucking massive. Doesn't have to be accurate, a quarter ton of explosive in a HE Frag warhead is going to wreck a plane in proximity.

    As to the ZSU-23... Early versions of the ZSU-23-4 sometimes had problems with "runaway guns": after prolonged periods of firing, the guns would get so hot that chambered rounds would "cook off" even if the operator was not pulling the trigger, discharging the weapon and chambering a new round, which would then also cook off, and continue to do so. This would sometimes continue until the entire belt of ammunition had been expended. Overheating barrels could jam and even break away from the vehicle. The problem resulted from a deficient cooling system and made the early ZSU-23-4s dangerous even to friendly troops standing nearby if this happened. Despite the fact that this seldom happened, Soviet operators learned to give these machines a wide berth.

    Hehehe, I love russian tech! ARE GUNS FIRE ON FULL AUTO, WHETHER YOU ARE READY OR NOT!
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:00 No.8532418
    >>8532339

    That's why you try coming in low and bagging the place in the first pass. Looking at the intelligence file, these guys are the bottom of the barrel. "Most equipment unmanned unless alert given." You pull off that first pass and there won't be much left to man.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:05 No.8532477
    >>8532418
    You are basing that on the ZSU-23s being in the same place though. They are mobile. I think the safer plan is to taunt them with the weasel, then blow the crap out of any that light up. I'm almost tempted to suggest AGM-65s, since lining up with a 23 for an iron bomb hit is suicide.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:09 No.8532535
    May as well ask this until OP gets back:
    If you were in this game, what would you pick to fly and for what role?

    Myself, I'm partial to the Mig-23 Flogger, as a multirole aircraft. I think it's one of those 'different' aircraft that most people will not think of, or dismiss. Lot of character in that bird.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:12 No.8532567
    >>8532477
    >>8532418
    Come in low and fast, bag the SAM, then while you turn around and get above AAA range the Air Superiority guys come in at altitude and pop the enemy planes as they try to take off.

    Easy. The rest you can pick off at your leisure from on high.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:13 No.8532582
    Probably a Draken, since it's excellent value and has good performance. I don't know about how good multirole it is, but to be honest, I don't really believe in multirole. I like mixed battle groups full of specialized units.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:14 No.8532588
    >>8532535
    I like the Prowler idea a lot myself.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:15 No.8532609
    No.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:19 No.8532663
    ITT: "BVR missiles were screwy back in the 1960s therefore they must be terrible today."
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:21 No.8532711
    >>8532663
    My favourite story was the AIM-7 that missed a plane because the radar return off a bunch of Geese was better.

    The geese did not survive.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:22 No.8532712
    >>8529885
    Well looking at the OPs list of planes they have. the Flanker is probably the only one not made in the 60's. So if they go vs some credible AF with some semblance of modern equipment It's going to be godsend. And it can pretty much carry any AG ordanance that the russians make, atleast the ones that can fit to a fighter that is.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:28 No.8532817
         File1268353689.jpg-(194 KB, 768x383, Kh-22-Kitchen-DD-ST-84-07764-1(...).jpg)
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    >>8532712
    Yeah, pretty much anything short of an ALCM, the Flanker can carry.

    On a related note, russian ALCMs are ridiculuos. Yuri! I have solution! We put wings on tank, da? Slap on Rocket Booster from Moon Rocket, and stuff full of explosif!

    AS-4 Kitchen is the result.
    12 Ton Mach 4, 250 mile range nuclear capable 11 metre 33 ft 'missile' .
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:35 No.8532909
    Probably that Super Tucano. What a nice little plane.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:41 No.8533008
    >>8532663

    ITT: Mercenaries with a limited budget using 1960s tech and missiles

    fuck you, read the fucking thread
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:42 No.8533034
    >>8533008
    1960s-1980s planes, mostly with electronics upgrades, and modern weapons.

    YOU read the fucking threads.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:53 No.8533173
    I like the Viggen, Prowler, and X-29 (FUCKING AWESOME) myself.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)19:53 No.8533176
    Let's forget about all the snazzy low-level attacks and all.

    Low approach, but attacking from higher up is the game. The Wild Weasel goes in first and pops a HARM at the SA-2. Afterwards, a Phantom or Mirage can pop the fuel depot and bunker while the Aardvark drops either a couple Durandals or a line of dumb iron (whatever is cheaper) on the runway. A thir plane might want to drop something on the hangars and perhaps the SA-2, just to rub it in. Fly high enough after the SA-2 got killed and take down the runway before the MiGs can start and they can't do shit.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)20:00 No.8533263
    >>8533034

    The AIM-7 had a 27% kill ratio... in DESERT STORM.

    So fuck you, you still don't know shit.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)20:01 No.8533282
    I'm disappointed there's no Hornet in the group if you want cheap and versatile.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)20:02 No.8533288
    >>8533263
    Only fools were suggesting that OP buy that, or any other lackluster munitions. He doesn't actually have to, and since he saved a bunch of his starting funds by not getting the most expensive plane around, can afford to get decent munitions.

    Read harder.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)20:05 No.8533337
    >>8533288

    see

    >>8529013

    >For my loadout, this is what I was thinking. Four AGM-78, 6x500lb bombs, Two AIM-7, Two AIM-9E sidewinders.

    >AIM-7

    YOU read harder.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)20:07 No.8533362
         File1268356053.jpg-(26 KB, 500x416, jas39.jpg)
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    This thread needs more multi-role fighters.

    It's small, and not super expensive, but it has some of the best RADAR systems available and it beats EVERY other fighter aircraft in low level flying in rough/mountainous terrain. It can land on highways, and it was built to be maintained by bootcamp recruits.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)20:09 No.8533399
    >>8533337
    Yes, he's asking for advice because he doesn't know what he's doing. Your point?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)20:11 No.8533421
    Party isn't bad-ass enough. Needs a F-117.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)20:16 No.8533488
    >>8533421
    Good luck getting one.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)20:22 No.8533571
    Mercenaries like their equipment reliable, inexpensive, easy to maintain, and easy to transport around.

    Any fancy shit that's going to need a gazillion hours of maintenance for every hour in flight is not going to be well-received.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)20:23 No.8533595
    >>8533362
    So, the Draaken IS good multirole.
    The plane's better than I thought. I already knew about its good value, ease of service, STOL and excellent maneuverability.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)20:30 No.8533707
    >8532241

    Considering there are confirmed reports from the Yom-Kippur War back in '73 of the Egyptians actually pressing them into anti-tank roles during an Isreali offensive, and them supposedly actually taking out one or two tanks when used direct fire, yeah the SA-2 is pretty crazy.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)20:58 No.8534204
    >>8533571
    Hence most not having aircraft to begin with.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:02 No.8534276
         File1268359351.jpg-(36 KB, 550x382, sa2.jpg)
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    A single SA-2 battery is pretty useless. They usually had multiple missile sites connected to a central long range detection radar. Without it you have a long range AA system with a radius of 70km tops which uses target radar sweeps for detection, can't hit anything below 100-400m, and even then 'hit' means within 80m of the target.

    The exact technical data is quite obscure, since there are thousands of variants with mixed parts of different generations, origin, and quality out there. But variants are still in use even today.

    And the missile is scary. It flies for maybe 30s at up to mach 3-5 and carries a 200-300kg warhead, usually of the fragmenting variety (first series 60m kill radius at low altitude). There even was a nuke version with a 15kt warhead.

    Even modern systems can handle 3-6 missiles on 1 target at a time only. Although I wouldn't deny the possibility of multi target options available somewhere. And they are quite susceptible to ECM and radar jamming, but that's a whole arms race of it's own.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:35 No.8534913
    Seconding that you make your teammates do their share munitions wise.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:38 No.8534997
    You do know that the OP is not the only one who has to pay for the stuff, right? Everybody with their own aircraft has to pay for its maintenance and munitions. He's one of the team, not the one in charge.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:40 No.8535028
    >>8533399
    OP again.

    Yeah, based on what you guys said I figured I'd mount 4 AIM-9 as backup, the Iron Bombs, and the HARMs. I talked with the strike guy today, and he said he was looking into runway cratering stuff, maybe some heavier bombs for the bunker. The fuel dump he and I both agreed is a soft target.
    I'm in charge of the SA-2, the other Phantom is backup for that strike, and Air watch with the Flanker. We both agreed we'd try to get Cameron to fly anti-tank against the Anti Air tanks. I was reading about them, they seem pretty short ranged, so kills with missiles outside of their shooting should be doable right?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:42 No.8535056
    >>8532817
    And they did that in the late 1950s. Just imagine the ridiculous shit they have today.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:43 No.8535078
    >>8535028
    That should do the trick, yes. Or a regular bomb beyond their vertical range.

    >>8534997
    He can do it by making sure everyone is taking their share of targets, not making him bomb everything and pay for the munitions to do so.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:44 No.8535106
    >>8535078
    Good thing he's in the multirole category and not the dedicated bomber, eh?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:45 No.8535118
    >>8535028
    Make sure your HARMs are of the newer kind which will stay with a radiation source even if it diverts or shuts down. Else they will turn their targetting radar to one side and shut it down for a second and the HARM will lose it's lock.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:45 No.8535121
    >>8535028
    Any word on the ruleset?

    I've been helping keep this thread alive in hope of seeing it.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:46 No.8535154
    >>8535078
    Well, a regular bomb maybe... Keep in mind OP might not be any good at bombing, and the ZSU23 can drive around...
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:47 No.8535165
    OP, where are you? Hopefully I luck out and you are close to me so I can join your game. Probably not though.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:48 No.8535185
    bamp
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:50 No.8535238
    >>8535165
    Canada
    >>8535121
    Steve is putting lists and stuff online for you guys. He handwrote most of it in a logbook.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:52 No.8535282
    >>8535238
    Drat. Well, at least there the GM seems to be willing to let us see the rules and stuff, so I may be able to get into a game of this anyways. How are helicopters handled? Are they viable?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:55 No.8535337
    >>8535238
    >Canada
    Well that narrows it down to something like four millions square miles...
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:55 No.8535350
    >>8535238
    >>Steve is putting lists and stuff online for you guys. He handwrote most of it in a logbook.

    EXCELLENT
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:55 No.8535355
    OK this whole finance thing needs to be worked out better. I am assuming that each mercenary/PC will have to borrow money and work it off, paying for his own equipment, jet, fuel, munitions and artistic photograph magazines.

    A little competition might be nice, but when it comes to having your back you don't want your wingman considering missile prices. Fuel is tricky because heavier jets burn much more, so does dogfighting. There should be a money meter next to the afterburner indicator.

    Also the air to Ground targets will bring in the money. Yet without fighter escort the fighter-bombers generally don't stand a chance in a setting like this. At least not before dropping payload and tanks.

    Either pool all money and divide it after cost is subtracted, maybe with bonuses for kills. Or at least agree to pay for each other's missiles in case someone is on your tail.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)21:56 No.8535360
    >>8535337
    You give them too much credit, only like half a million square miles is livable.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:00 No.8535436
    >>8535355
    I figure that if you are in the position of protecting your wingmate, you aren't going to consider not shooting. They down one of your guys, well, you're down a plane, and they still can attack you.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:03 No.8535509
    One question about the mission plan:

    Does the Aardvark, which has a ground hugging radar guided autopilot, have to rise to deploy it's payload? Or are there maybe precision munitions which will hit preprogrammed and maybe 1 or 2 quickly selected targets on a NOE flyover?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:04 No.8535534
    >>8532817
    IIRC, that thing was made to pop American carriers.

    As in, one of those mission-kills a Nimitz-class if it hits. Two of them sink it. Three of them sink it in lots of little pieces.

    And that's just with conventional explosives.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:05 No.8535543
    >>8535509
    Well, for the runway, at 200ft, you could use Durandals or Snakeyes, that have fins to deploy so they hit after the aircraft is clear of the blast zone. Everything else, you'll be looking at being a little higher to deploy, since the rest are either iron bombs without retarders, or glide bombs.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:13 No.8535697
         File1268363596.png-(359 KB, 768x1126, Su-35-KNAAPO-Brochure-Loadouts(...).png)
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    When you can op, upgrade to this.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:13 No.8535713
    >>8535355
    Half of the money from each mission gets pooled and spent to keep the whole group with at least a decent base level of gear.

    The other half gets split according to workload/kills.

    Also, make sure to pick good callsigns. If or when you pick up a dedicated ELINT/EW aircraft for the squad (preferably an EA-6B or EA-18), it gets named "Harbinger" because of how it'll go ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL when it guides your missiles in with its radar.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:19 No.8535816
    >>8535713
    For the hundredth time, the EA-6b radar does not work like that. It's a jamming platform, not an AWACS.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:23 No.8535900
         File1268364180.jpg-(254 KB, 1024x768, ZH104_04%20SENTRY%20AEW-1%208_(...).jpg)
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    >>8535713
    >ELINT/EW aircraft for the squad
    :O
    How did I forget the most bad-ass non-combat aircraft in existance!!!

    Party needs this for Epic Level.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:25 No.8535939
    >>8535900
    I thought they had a "Moss" AWACS?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:25 No.8535964
    >>8535816
    I thought that it could do at least some AWACS type stuff. Just nowhere near as well, obviously.

    But it has a really fucking powerful radar, so you'd think that it could spotlight an enemy plane for somebody else's radar-homing missiles to knock down.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:26 No.8535969
    >>8535900
    YOU CAN NOT OUT EPIC THE SR-71
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:26 No.8535983
    >>8535939
    *googles Moss AWACS*

    Oh wow... Tu-126?
    Yeah, that looks pretty bad-ass...
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:27 No.8536003
         File1268364446.jpg-(52 KB, 640x350, Tu-126 Moss 001.jpg)
    52 KB
    >>8535939
    I had to look that up.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:27 No.8536006
    >>8535900
    Could also go for an E-767. Or the latest version of the Mainstay.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:30 No.8536065
    >>8536006
    *googles E-767*
    Yeah, that's probably a better choice. Same electronics package, but cheaper due to the civilian chassis. Good call.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:32 No.8536094
    Op again, we have a R-99A if we need AWACS support according to Steve. But it costs us if we request it for a mission.

    What are Awacs benefits? Doesn't my plane have radar already?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:33 No.8536110
    >>8536094
    AWACS is defensive. You wouldn't need it unless doing, like, a counter-op mission.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:35 No.8536157
    >>8536094
    AWACS would be your tripwire in the case of catching unexpected enemy re-inforcements coming at you. You'd get a longer heads-up than your personal radar would give, and probably more accurate description.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:36 No.8536172
         File1268364967.png-(532 KB, 792x816, Maridi Sudan.png)
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    You can get in below the SA-2's targeting easyly. There is a wide valley leading up to the area, and in close range it's useless.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:37 No.8536206
    >>8535534
    >Three of them sink it in lots of little pieces.

    Very unlikely. You don't sink a ship that size with the top attacks these things do. Doesn't put holes in it that have water coming in. Yeah, one is a mission-kill, though. Hard to do carrier operations if there's a huge gaping hole in the middle of the flight deck. Putting a carrier out of order is way easier than sinking it.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:38 No.8536233
    >>8536094
    Don't use AWACS unless you don't know where your targets are. That radar will give your enemies a massively long-range heads-up poke that someone's looking. If they're listening for radar, they'll know you're coming long before you find them.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:38 No.8536236
    >>8536172
    Is that valley deep enough to be meaningful? The contour lines didn't look promising.

    Also
    IRON EAGLE
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVHEFiLQ3GU
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:40 No.8536259
    The F-111 is almost guaranteed to get the runway, noone else can pack enough bombs. Try to get Durandals at a discount from the French or go for Snakeyes. OP does the Wild Weasel and pops the SAM radar directly before the F-111 does it's run while the Mirage and the other Phantom can come in after that and bomb the fuel depot, command bunker and perhaps the hangars into bits from a height on which the Shilkas can't do shit about it.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:41 No.8536302
         File1268365312.jpg-(1.24 MB, 2592x1944, EMB-145_FAM.jpg)
    1.24 MB
    >>8536094
    Sweet damn that's a sexy looking AWACs! But yeah, op, you don't need it. Nose cold for this strike, until they know you are there. By that time, you should be looking for secondaries!
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:44 No.8536367
         File1268365496.jpg-(63 KB, 600x420, ac130.jpg)
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    A thread about cheap warplanes?
    A thread about versatile warplanes?
    A thread about mercenary warplanes?
    AND NO AC-130???

    /tg/, i am disappoint
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:46 No.8536412
    >>8536367
    Wit an SA-2 and ZSus around, that would be less than useful.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:49 No.8536475
    >>8536367
    The AC-130 isnt really cheap considering the armament and avionics/sensors.

    The C-47 version is used by some small governments though
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:51 No.8536525
    >>8536006
    Yeah, the E767 is superior to the standard AWAC for fuel consumption levels alone. It's also a hell of a lot nicer inside.

    I don't know this game, OP, but as someone with a little knowledge about modern air power I have a couple ideas. Are you going to be providing close air support or focusing entirely on air-to-air? If the former, you may want to look into getting a JSTAR. In either case, a KC-135 (or KC-10 depending on how many friendly craft are in the air) would likely be handy.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:51 No.8536528
    >>8536412
    The AC-130 can carry enough chaff to make a metal desert five miles wide. The Howitzer probably has better range than the ZSUs.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:51 No.8536531
    >>8536367
    The AC-130 needs absolute air superiority. And even then a simple MANPAD can down that sucker.

    It's a weapon for domination, not warfare. A flying target in the daylight. Great against technicals, not so great against any AA, or a 20mm autocannon with nightvision. A C-130 will fly home with half a wing, but it will be out of the fight really quickly.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:56 No.8536644
    >>8536525
    >>8536531
    Yeah, we're talking about a lot of HVAs here. I hope OP has some rocking good fighter squadrons to keep them all alive, preferably aircraft that can carry AMRAAMs.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)22:58 No.8536666
    >>8536206
    Unless, of course, one of them penetrates to a magazine or the jet fuel before exploding.

    Or sets the carrier on fire.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:01 No.8536735
    >>8536644
    >>8536525
    >>8536367

    You not only need expensive planes, but well-trained crews to staff them, and those planes need large runways, lots of maintenance (including for all the inner equipment), and protection.

    Meanwhile the OP's merc group has maybe 10 fighters/fighter-bombers/attack aircraft from the sound of it, some transports, and a few support craft.

    I wouldn't be worrying about those planes recommended; that's more for a regular air force.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:04 No.8536779
    I would start saving towards a flying home base. Some mid sized rugged transport that can land on a dirt strip if needed.

    Get a really good radar system, latest ECM, drone command station, extra tanks and air-refuel setup, maybe even a few hardpoints for HARMs or AAMRAMs, massive counter measures, and a cute girl mechanic on call.

    It extends your range massively, is rather inconspicuous with the radar turned off, can disable AA radar from far away, warn of any bogeys in the vicinity, and allows you to keep chasing bad guys until you have only moments of fuel left.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:07 No.8536844
    >>8536779
    >>8536735

    The way I've read it, OP and his group are just one group in this merc crew. From the sounds of it, the Mercs have a ton of support stuff already. It just costs the players cash/money to have access to additional support for missions.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:07 No.8536869
    >>8536779
    >>Get a really good radar system, latest ECM, drone command station, extra tanks and air-refuel setup, maybe even a few hardpoints for HARMs or AAMRAMs, massive counter measures, and a cute girl mechanic on call.

    You couldn't really fit all of that on one of the MASSIVE transports, and finding a place to land it that wasn't a major runway would be impossible.

    Planes are smaller than you think, and only can carry so much. Also, you're not going to put missiles on a setup like that.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:08 No.8536885
    what about an AC-130 or a B1?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:08 No.8536891
    >>8536735
    They do have three C-130s, though, so refitting one of them into an AC-130 might be doable.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:08 No.8536901
    >>8536869
    This is still /tg/, not /k/.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:09 No.8536912
    >>8536844
    The way I've read it, these guys are THE fighter group of the merc organization. The mercs have resources, sure, but not THAT much. It's not like they're a country or something. A few other planes and choppers does not an entire air force make.

    OP clearing this up would be appreciated.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:10 No.8536924
    1. Change game to copy plot from Iron Eagle 3.
    2. ????
    3. Profit!

    Dibbs on the Spit
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:11 No.8536967
    >>8536901
    OP's GM is keeping it pretty real.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:13 No.8537014
    >>8536735
    Four fighters with radar-guided missiles, one tanker, and an AWAC would rape ten lone fighters IRL. Fighters do not have the most sophisticated long range radars in the world, which is important for determining IDs and angles of attack, and the enhanced targeting abilities offered by JTIDS from the AWAC would improve their accuracy over medium distances extraordinarily. Then they have the additional advantage of being able to CAP at high altitudes for long periods of time, thanks to the KC-135.

    But this is a game, so maybe you are right.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:14 No.8537043
         File1268367272.jpg-(92 KB, 1141x510, Strike-Witches-lolis.jpg)
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    I'll just leave this here.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:15 No.8537067
    >>8536912
    I'll ask steve, any other questions I should ask?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:16 No.8537085
    It is just a game.

    No PMC can ever afford an air force. It's simply too expensive. You need a huge logistic infrastructure and train your pilots and crews for a long time.

    The average military combat aircraft needs ten times as much maintenance as it is in the air. You have 30-50 people working full time for 1 aircraft to go up. And half of those need to have been to grad school.

    So let's just enjoy this exciting fantasy scenario and limit the realism to fighter roles and weapon specs.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:16 No.8537093
    >>8537067
    Ask for 2-stage missiles.
    Destroy Hubble.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:23 No.8537221
         File1268367785.jpg-(102 KB, 544x560, AirmanCoin.jpg)
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    >>8537043
    What is this, some sort of loli Airplane Machine?

    >>8537085
    >And half of those need to have been to grad school.

    More like two of those. Maybe. Real men just need tech school!

    >So let's just enjoy this exciting fantasy scenario and limit the realism to fighter roles and weapon specs.

    Aw, alright. Can we at have AMRAAMs or is it just Fox 2 and Fox 1? Oh, and can we get that wicked sweet F-14 radar system?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:23 No.8537229
         File1268367806.jpg-(157 KB, 950x679, uss-george-h-w-bush.jpg)
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    Another benefit to OPs choice is that he is carrier capable, unlike the F-16 which is not.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:23 No.8537238
    >>8536528
    Not good enough. At the range where the thing gets even remotely useful, the fucking Shilka gunners could even change to manual aiming and hit. Chaff isn't exactly foolproof, either. And god may have mercy on the thing if even one of those MiGs is actually flying. Hell, the fucking Hueys can pose a credible danger at the heights on which Spooky operates.

    Also, an AC-130 is neither cheap, nor easy to maintain, nor versatile.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:24 No.8537261
    >>8537221
    Strike Witches is WWII's greatest aces, and their planes turned into lolis. Lolis and big-boobed rabbit girls.

    It's better than it sounds. If you can get over the initial shock and shame of the premise, that is.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:25 No.8537274
    >>8537238
    It does one thing only. It does it Very fucking well, and if one is orbiting, then you are hooped, but it only does one thing. Outside of it's element it's just a target.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:27 No.8537325
    >>8537067
    Ask if prototypes are fair game for purchase.

    Luvs me some YF-23.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:28 No.8537343
    >>8537221
    You can also have FOX-2-MIKEs.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:30 No.8537381
         File1268368203.jpg-(25 KB, 450x307, B52Stratofortress.jpg)
    25 KB
    >>8537274
    Well, if you want to kill the living shit out of something on the ground, wouldn't this work just as well if not better?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:31 No.8537406
         File1268368285.jpg-(30 KB, 480x480, akira sol2.jpg)
    30 KB
    >>8537381
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:32 No.8537422
    >>8537261
    >If you can get over the initial shock and shame of the premise, that is.

    Get over it? I'm still trying to wrap my head around it.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:35 No.8537476
    >>8537422
    It makes even less sense if you try and watch it. Don't, that other anon is lying to you, it's stupid fanservice pedoshit and there's not much else to it.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:40 No.8537575
         File1268368816.jpg-(20 KB, 189x216, YEAAAAAAHOOOOO!.jpg)
    20 KB
    >>8537406
    I don't know what that is. Is it nuclear?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:44 No.8537641
    >>8537476
    Goddamnit, Japan! Why would you create a porn about little girls with airplane tails for legs?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:44 No.8537657
    At the very least, can we get a list of all a/c you can buy OP?
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:47 No.8537712
    >>8537641
    It's not actually porn. Just a LOT of -very- gratuitous panty-shots.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:51 No.8537788
         File1268369495.jpg-(43 KB, 360x410, LittleBoy.jpg)
    43 KB
    >>8537712
    >Just a LOT of -very- gratuitous panty-shots.
    >panty-shots

    ...AND THEN THEY CENSOR EVERYTHING THAT MATTERS IN A PORN! That's it. It looks like you need a second helping.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:53 No.8537819
    OP again,
    I think this is all of the planes on the list. Spent way too long copying that out.

    F-CK-1 Ching-Kuo
    J-10 Annihilator
    F-106 Delta Dart
    Mirage 2000
    Mirage F1
    Mirage III
    Rafael
    Eurofighter Typhoon
    A-10 Thunderbolt
    F-111 Aardvark
    F-16C Falcon
    F-16E Falcon
    F-16XL Falcon
    A-1 Skyraider
    A-6 Intruder
    F-14B Tomcat
    F-14D Tomcat
    XF-29 Wildcat II
    Kfir
    T-50 Golden Eagle
    F-104C Starfighter
    F-22A Raptor
    F-35A Lightning II
    F-35B Lightning II
    F-35C Lightning II
    AV-8B Harrier II
    F-101B Voodoo
    F-15C Eagle
    F-15E Eagle
    F-15SE Silent Eagle
    F/A-18 Hornet
    F/A-18E Super Hornet
    XF-31
    MiG-21 Fishbed E
    MiG-23 Flogger E
    MiG-25 Foxbat
    MiG-29SM Fulcrum C
    MiG-31 Foxhound
    MiG-35 Fulcrum E
    F-100 Super Sabre
    F-20 Tigershark
    F-5E Tiger II
    YF-23 Black Widow II
    Tornado ADV
    F-105 Thunderchief
    JAS-35 Draken
    JAS-37 Viggen
    JAS-39 Gripen
    Jaguar
    PAK-50
    Su-17 Fitter
    Su-24 Fencer
    Su-25 Frogfoot
    SU-27BM Flanker J
    Su-27S Flanker B
    Su-30MKI Flanker H
    Su-33 Flanker D
    Su-34 Fullback
    Su-35 Flanker E
    A-7 Corsair
    F-8E Crusader
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:54 No.8537851
    >>8537819
    Daaang, nice list.

    I feel like a jackass for saying it, but I really wish you'd typed out the prices for each of those too.
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:56 No.8537884
    >>8537788
    It's all good though. In some ways it was sort of bad-ass for an anime.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyIJ06HMugQ
    >> Anonymous 03/11/10(Thu)23:59 No.8537940
    >>8537819
    I can work on doing that, but numbers are worse than names.
    >> Anonymous 03/12/10(Fri)00:01 No.8537983
    >>8537819
    >>8537851

    Forgot two as well. Damit.

    Forger
    Freestyle

    Both Yaks, which sounds like a stupid name.
    >> Anonymous 03/12/10(Fri)00:01 No.8537996
    >>8537819
    >MiG-31 Foxhound
    Best Worst-Made-Plane Ever.
    >> Anonymous 03/12/10(Fri)00:02 No.8538015
    >>8537940
    If your GM is doing it with the ruleset, no worries.

    Does he have an ETA for that?
    >> Anonymous 03/12/10(Fri)00:03 No.8538022
    >>8537575
    FLOYD is a US made orbital laser weapon from Otomo's Akira mango. Old school.
    >> Anonymous 03/12/10(Fri)00:04 No.8538039
    >>8538015
    He did not say when I asked him, although he did get back to me, and explained that we form a 'squadron' in this military corp, and that we are one of three or four. We are not the best, we're the new guys.
    >> Anonymous 03/12/10(Fri)00:05 No.8538059
    >>8538039
    Thanks, that does clear things up.
    >> Anonymous 03/12/10(Fri)00:05 No.8538064
    We've autosage, OP, make a new post? This is too awesome to die.
    >> Anonymous 03/12/10(Fri)00:05 No.8538077
    >>8538039
    No... you ARE the best... AND you're the new guys.

    Don't bring that character-capabilities negativity into this board, mister.
    >> Anonymous 03/12/10(Fri)00:06 No.8538106
    >>8538064
    Nah, you should wait until you have a link for the ruleset, or until you have a mission story to tell us, or another mission to ask about, or more plane questions.

    Call it a night, I'll archive this and be ready to assist with another thread in the future.
    >> Anonymous 03/12/10(Fri)00:07 No.8538123
    And archive this mother...
    >> Anonymous 03/12/10(Fri)00:11 No.8538183
    >>8538123
    Done and Done. OP, make another thread. Definitely an awesome concept.

    And that plane list? Fuck me there's some sweet shit in there.
    >> Anonymous 03/12/10(Fri)00:11 No.8538194
    >>8538123
    Done. Right before mine took effect.
    >> Anonymous 03/12/10(Fri)00:31 No.8538535
    I couldn't wait.

    >>8538520
    >> Anonymous 03/12/10(Fri)00:41 No.8538696
    >>8538535
    You impatient fucktard.
    >> Anonymous 03/12/10(Fri)01:24 No.8539420
    I'd roll with the Eurofighter Typhoon for multi-role. It has a large number of hardpoints for A/G payload, and has good long-range standoff capabilities with missiles, although probably not the top choice for dogfighting, if such a thing exists anymore. easily the best all-rounder. Also F-111 Aardvark ftw.



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